--- In dq-rules@yahoogroups.com, "Jeffery K. McGonagill" <igmod@...>
wrote:

>
> "Fire Mages are always in heat."
> Adventurers Guild, Book of Lore (or How to Stay Alive), Volume I
>
>

Groaaaaaaaan...

> Rule 58: College Of Fire Magics
> (aka "How many different ways can we cause 3rd-degree burns?")
>
> Who hasn't had the fun, if only once, of playing a Fire Mage?

This was by far the most popular college in my gaming group, mostly
because Fire Mage = walking flame-thrower. "Fire is good; fire is
our friend."

>
> T-1 Infravision
>
> A nice idea, but this needs a serious re-write. First of all,

the BC is low. It's a talent, for cryin' out loud, not a double-
digit special knowledge spell. Secondly, it can be actively
resisted? How in the world do you actively resist having someone
look at your heat signature? Are you supposed to be sending out
little magical waves of heat confusion? Thirdly, if the Adept is
successful with the talent, he learns not only the species/general
nature of the object, but also whether it's magical. So magical
things give out magic heat? I don't get it.

>
> Why not? Detect Aura (Talent) can be Actively resisted. Of

course the trick is to know when to resist

Well, that's silly too, although some New Agers might point out that
you can "retract" your aura or something like that... But holding in
your body heat? I dunno... But yes, knowing when to resist this is
quite tricky...

>
> G-5. Spell of Temperature Alteration
>
> Interesting note about this spell: it states that while the

range is "touch" (which usually indicates a successful Strike Check
must be made), this spell states that the touching is part of the
spell casting process. In other words, if you roll well enough to
cast the spell, it's assumed you touched the target. Odd, isn't it?

>
> Not necessarily. You have to be close enough to touch the target,

without getting your head bashed in in the process. However, if you
are close enough to touch, don't get your head bashed in, AND
successfully cast the spell, then you've touched the target.

I was more focused on how this spell runs counter to the usual (in
RPGs of that period) rules about touch spells: normally you have to
make some sort of attack roll to touch the target. Here, the touch
is automatic if you successfully cast the spell. Theoretically, the
clumsiest, wimpiest adept in the world can lay his hands on a kung
fu master by casting this spell.

>
> G-7. Spell of Fireproofing
>
> Rule 1 in Fire Mage school: "ALWAYS have the Spell of

Fireproofing up at ALL times." That way, when trouble starts you
can hop into the nearest medium fire and get that tasty +10 right
away. Plus, it's fun to freak out the local hoopleheads by warming
your hands IN the fireplace. It's also a great way to get rid of
lice, fleas, ticks, and other parasites. God, being Fire Mage is
fun.

>
> Fun with interpretation - Were the lice, fleas, tics and other

parasites on the mage when he cast Fireproofing? If the answer is
yes, then they are fireproofed too. Also, were the clothes the fire
mage is wearing when s/he steps into the fire what s/he was wearing
when the spell was cast? No? Then poof, they go up in flames.

I don't know that anyone has actually used this spell to rid
themselves of parasites, but I could see a case being built for
their lack of coverage from the spell. Otherwise, the implication
exists for any being touching the adept being Fireproofed, too, and
that doesn't sound right to me.

However, in a more light-hearted game, I could see NOTHING but the
adept's body being covered by the spell, meaning that, yes, his
clothes would ignite if he stepped into one of those medium
campfires to boost his spell casting chances. :)

>
> G-8. Spell of Protection Against Magical Fire
>
> Don't go dragon-hunting without it. Does this spell protect the

caster from damage incurred by his own backfires? I ruled that it
did, if only because the BC is so low, you risk incurring backfire
by casting it, and I like to reward bravery.

>
> My Firemage, the quintessential Firemage, hot-headed, brash,

impulsive, etc., did this to protect her own party. At low ranks do
Spell prep and have someone handy who can keep the fire going.

>
> S-1. Wall of Fire Spell
>
> I house ruled that most animals should roll on the Fright Table

when one of these pops up, including animals owned by the party to
which the Fire Mage belonged.

>
> I like this idea.
>
> S-6 Imploding Fireball Spell
>
> Fire Damage Spell variation #573. What's the point?
>
> More damage to single target.

Eh. Lower BC and higher XPM. Why not stick to Bolt of Fire?

>
> S-8 Demonic Firebolt Spell
>
> Is this necessary? Just pump up ranks in regular Bolt of Fire.
>
> Half-damage if save.

I suppose, but again, the BC and XPM overbalance that advantage, but
that's just MO.

>
> S-9 Spell of Hellfire
>
> Variation #739. The one drawback to this college is these

infinite permutations.

>
> A favorite to Invest, particularly when your Aspect is at best,

especially when you have access to a Shaper to make it permanent.

>
> S-13 Malignant Flames Spell
>
> It eats up characteristics. Ouch. Can you imagine a dungeon

full of wards with this spell on the trigger?

>
> I haven't seen a whole lot of use of this one.

Yeah, I'd say this is more of a "powerful NPC" kind of spell...

>
> S-16 Spell of Summoning Efreet
>
> This is powerful. It's also one of the very few summoning

spells where the summoned entity is of a helpful disposition. I'd
imagine that an Adept player who over-used this spell would start
finding the efreeti rather less kindly disposed .

>
> Remember my Firemage? She had one on call and panicked when she

was drowning. After that no Efreeti would answer her summons.

Now that's FUNNY. "You called me to do WHAT?!?" Hilarious.

In a message dated 9/24/2007 1:01:57 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, dantalion64@excite.com writes:

S-7.  Spell of Controlling Sea Mammals (Water Mammals)

Anyone else getting an Aquaman vibe from this college?  The paltry range indicates that if you summon a whale to do your bidding, he will come back to kick your ass later. (Freshwater mages have to make do with otters and the like…)

Don't have my rules handy, but how do you/the rules define a "sea" or "freshwater" mammal?  (I'm looking at hippopotami and the occasional confused dugong) ;)

 

Joscsa

--- In dq-rules@yahoogroups.com, joscsa@... wrote:

>
>
> In a message dated 9/24/2007 1:01:57 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> dantalion64@... writes:
>
> S-7. Spell of Controlling Sea Mammals (Water Mammals)
> Anyone else getting an Aquaman vibe from this college? The

paltry range

> indicates that if you summon a whale to do your bidding, he will

come back to

> kick your ass later. (Freshwater mages have to make do with

otters and the like

> …)
>
>
> Don't have my rules handy, but how do you/the rules define a "sea"

or "freshwater" mammal? (I'm looking at hippopotami and the
occasional confused dugong) ;)

>
> Joscsa

Hmm, good question! I guess "spends more of its time in/under water
than on land?" There's probably problems with that, but I'd go with
it... again, the range is so paltry that if you wanted to summon a
Future-ly Angry Hippo, I'd let you ;)

Rule 59: College of Earth Magics

Ahh, the good ol' days…  It was the summer before my senior year in high school, I had a hot girlfriend, a car, and I played an Earth Mage named Barnaby Wylde.  Sweet.

I love how the DQ designers made Druids, well, Druids.  Not afraid of a little blood sacrifice, these boys.  And if you wanted to play a panty-waisted, D&D-style "druid," you could do that, too.

Out of curiosity, what's your rules for how long a sprig of mistletoe remains "fresh?"

T-1 Detect Aura

A pretty worthless talent, really… "Whenever confronted by an object whose nature is unknown to him…" And how often is that, exactly?  Do you ever have trouble telling a human corpse from a parrot?  How about an elf from a petunia?

Druid: I detect "formerly living matter as part of an object."

Druid's pal: No @$&#, Sherlock.  It's called a "chair."

OK, I know.  The Earth Mage encounters some strange humanoid in voluminous robes, and can't tell if it's human or undead or whatever.  Still.

G-1 Spell of Converse with Animals

Yep, you can talk to the animals.  Actually, you can talk with "fauna."  So what constitutes fauna?  The dictionary definitions I've seen all say it's "animals."  So what's an animal?  Does it include mammals?  Yes.  Birds?  Probably.  Invertebrates?  Well, they're part of the animal kingdom – do they count as fauna?  How about fish?  I dunno.  What limits do you place on this spell?  I tend toward the very broad definition – hey, the caster is an Earth Mage, so if it's a natural creature, I figure the mage should be able to talk to it, although once again, the depth of conversation you'll get from a deer fly is liable to be somewhat limited.

G-2 Spell of Converse with Plants

One of the trippiest spells in the book.  Really, what kind of conversation are you going to have with crabgrass?  Note that "the mode and extent of communication is up to the GM's discretion."  Translation: "yeah, we couldn't think up how this works, either.  Good luck."

When long-suffering GM Pete introduced his chaos-world, talking to plants took on a surreal quality:

Barnaby Wylde: So, grass, has anyone else walked by here recently?
Grass: Yes.
Barnaby: What did they look like?
Grass: I'm grass, you idiot.  I don't have eyes.
Barnaby: OK, how many of them were there?
Grass: I'm grass.  I can't count, either.
Barnaby: And yet you can form complete sentences.  How is that?
Grass: Don't ask such stupid questions.

G-3 Spell of Controlling Animals

As always, make sure your last command is "run far away" to avoid those nasty end-of-spell attacks.

G-4 Spell of Blending

We've touched on this elsewhere.

G-5 Spell of Walking Unseen

Ditto.

G-6 Spell of Healing

Looks like the designers read Lord of the Rings too.  ("Kingsfoil?  Aye, it's a weed…")

G-7 Spell of Detecting Traps and Snares

One of the many synergies between this college and the Ranger skill.

G-8 Spell of Detecting Poisons

Nice general use spell.

G-9 Spell of Lesser Enchantment

Is this really worth burning a FT point?  I say thee nay.

G-10 Spell of Herbal Lore

A much more useful spell now that the herbalism rules are available.

G-11 Spell of Tracking

Ranger + Earth Mage = Good.

Q-1 Ritual of Summoning Animals

Great, you get a bunch of small animals.  Get the stewpot ready, Marge! (With the exception of Fire Mages, you need never carry rations with an elemental mage in the party: just summon something, kill it, cook it, and eat it.)  Has anyone actually found a use for this spell, other than making a ball gown for Cinderella?

S-1 Earth Hammer Spell

The best thing about this spell is the amount of rubble it leaves behind.  Must be puzzling for someone happening upon a battle site where lots of Earth Hammers were thrown around.

S-2 Hands of Earth Spell

One of the best spells in the book.  Visually striking, and useful, too.  Did it come from Zelazny's The Changing Land?

S-3 Strength of Stone Spell

Handy spell.  If you take the Fatigue option, beware the spell's expiration time!

S-4 Armor of Earth Spell

You know, I wish these armor spells would let you create an armor of the appropriate element at higher ranks.  How cool would it be to cause a bunch of earth and rocks and stuff to form around you into armor?

S-5 Diamond Weapon Spell

Come on – this spell doesn't increase the damage the weapon does?  As a matter of fact, I'd think it more likely it would increase damage without increasing Strike Chance.

S-6 Spell of Gem Creation

AKA "Spell of ripping off yokels."  I mean, what other use does this spell have other than straight-up fraud?

S-7 Spell of Animal Growth

Barnaby Wylde eventually used this spell and his Beastmaster skill to raise a wolf pup that had this spell continually cast upon it.  He rode it into battle.  The food bills were outrageous, though.

S-8 Spell of Enchanting Plants

Two words: poison ivy.

S-9 Spell of Binding Animals

Infinite duration (with weekly checks).  That can get you a whole boatload of guardian animals.

S-10.  Spell of Conjuring and Controlling Earth Elementals

Yikes. It's a spell, not a ritual.  I'm assuming most successful warrior-kings have an Earth Mage to provide a quick conclusion to those pesky sieges.

S-11.  Spell of Sinking Doom

If you sink thousands of XP into this, it might actually work.  Another spell with a great visual.

S-12.  Wall of Stone

Like all similar creation spells, this is surprisingly flexible.  I've seen an Earth Mage prop up a crumbling ceiling by conjuring stone pillars.

S-13.  Wall of Iron

Is there an advantage of having a wall of iron over one of stone?  It's stronger, I guess.  It could also be fun to team with an air mage and have him throw a lightning bolt along an iron wall that enemies were scaling…

S-14.  Spell of Tunneling

Clever Earth Mages will find interesting uses for this spell:  impromptu pitfalls, momentary hiding places, etc.  A couple of these will play hell on a cavalry charge, too.

S-15.  Trollskin Spell

Not as useful as it would appear on the surface. While unspecified, I'm assuming the EN damage must take place while the spell is in effect.  So, you're in combat, you take EN damage… and then you have to wait 6 more Pulses until it starts working.  If you die in the meantime, do you still regenerate?

S-16.  Spell of Smoking Magma

("What kind of magma are you smoking, man?"  Ah, teenage humor…)  It's good to remember that smoking magma can harm plenty of non-living things as well (crops, trees, buildings, circles of protection, etc.).

DEMONIC FUN: The pool has a radius of 25 feet, and does D+15 damage.  That'll mellow out an angry mob in a hurry (and by "mellow out," I mean "singe into unrecognizability").

S-17 Spell of Diamond Javelins

A fun spell to jack up ranks with.

DEMONIC FUN: A demon casting this spell creates 11 javelins, each with a BC of 105 and D+6 damage.  Blood will be spilled.

S-18.  Spell of Earth Transformation

Stone edifices will be toppled.  Traffic in muddy city streets will be brought to a standstill.  Wall of Stone spells will be rendered silly.  Hilarity ensues.

R-1.  Ritual of Binding Earth

This requires a sacrifice?  Why?  And if you can summon and control an elemental as a spell, why is it so much more arduous to bind the element?  The inconsistencies and gray area between binding an element and summoning an elemental kind of piss me off sometimes.  It really needed to be explained in greater detail (have I said this often enough already?).

A pretty worthless talent, really� "Whenever confronted by an object whose nature is unknown to him�" And how often is that, exactly?  Do you ever have trouble telling a human corpse from a parrot?  How about an elf from a petunia?

Druid: I detect "formerly living matter as part of an object."

Druid's pal: No @$&#, Sherlock.  It's called a "chair."

OK, I know.  The Earth Mage encounters some strange humanoid in voluminous robes, and can't tell if it's human or undead or whatever.  Still.

Another good list, although matches have actually been in use since
the invention of black powder weapons. The strike to light variety
are relatively recent, though.

--- In dq-rules@yahoogroups.com, Martin Gallo <martimer@...> wrote:

>  
> Another good list, although matches have actually been in use since 
> the invention of black powder weapons. The strike to light variety 
> are relatively recent, though.  

Well, that'll teach me to trust my first two sources without looking further!  After some additional hunting, I read that the Egyptians had something you could call a match, small sticks of something resinous impregnated with sulfur.  The only "matches" being around in early gunpowder days I could find anything to read about were the match-cord fuse things they used to fire those big weapons.  Is that what you're referring to, or something else?  Do you have a reference I could take a look at?  This topic suddenly tickles my fancy…

Rule 60: College of Celestial Magics

The main drawback of this college is that regardless of what flavor you choose, you're worthless for half the day. Yes, I know there's ways of overcoming this, but it isn't always prudent for, say, a Dark Mage to cast Darkness over himself before casting other spells. 

Also, the flavors of this college seem to have it in for one another, which limits the usefulness of some of the spells.  Anyway, let's have a look.

T-1.  Speak to Shadow Creatures

A "combination of telepathic contact, sign language, and a few verbal symbols"?  Why not throw in semaphore, smoke signals, and tap dancing while we're at it?  Silliness, and needlessly complex.  Why not just let the Mage talk to the Shadow creature, like all the other colleges get to do with animals of their respective spheres?

T-2 Night Vision

A needful talent for this college, regardless of flavor.  Fairly inexpensive, too.

T-3.  Detect Aura

ABC.

G-1.  Spell of Blending

ABC.

G-2.  Spell of Light

ABC.

G-3.  Spell of Darkness

Awesome and dirt-cheap spell.  As with the Light spells, I feel the volume should increase with rank.  It seems a bit of a fine line to draw between the darkness of a cloudy night and that of a sealed room – most fantasy worlds are not going to have much in the way of light pollution, so when it's cloudy at night outside, it's frickin' dark. 

G-4.  Spell of Shadow Form

The BC is low, but the XM is reasonable, and the results quite helpful.

G-5.  Wall of Starlight Spell

Anyone have a list of dark- and shadow-aligned creatures?  Is it only "Creatures of Night and Shadow," or does it go beyond that?

Something that just occurred to me about these wall spells: does anyone have a chart or something about how much damage it would take to knock down any of the wall spell walls (aside from the forthcoming Wall of Bones)?  Particularly, what exactly is a wall of starlight?  Does it act like a solid wall, or can you just walk through it?  Does it only impede dark- and shadow-aligned creatures?  How have you GM'ed this?

G-6.  Wall of Darkness Spell

Is there a list of light-aligned creatures somewhere?

G-7.  Witchsight Spell

ABC (as a talent).

G-8.  Strength of Darkness Spell

See, this is how Waters of Strength should work.

G-9.  Spell of Walking Unseen

ABC.  Weird how many repeat spells this college has.

Q-1.  Ritual of Reading the Stars

When you're desperate for GM help…

Q-2  Ritual of Summoning and Binding Shadow Creatures

Uh, this includes lesser undead.  However, that categorization is a bit unclear: revenants are lesser undead, except that a revenant can be a night-gaunt, which is greater undead.  So a revenant night-gaunt is which kind?  You have to have some stones to summon and bind some of these creatures – how do you explain to a werebear later that you needed to borrow him for a few hours?

S-1.  Spell of Healing

I normally don't associate night and shadows with healing magic, but what do I know?

S-2.  Spell of Creating Shadow/Starsword

The BC bonus for the weapon sucks.  How about 5 plus 1 per rank?  I notice that many spells of this college seem to be especially efficacious against other flavors of this college.  Must be a lot of infighting amongst the factions.  Really cool effect, though, and it saves precious carrying capacity, not to mention bypassing that ugly cold iron restriction.

S-3.  Starfire Spell

Ranged damage.  Always helpful.

S-4.  Meteor Spell

At rank 0, a 25-foot-diameter meteor does D-4?  What's it made of, Styrofoam?  Even a giant Coco Puff would do more damage!  Here's the visual: a 25-foot-diameter fuckin' meteor comes cruising down on you from outer space.  You, in you mail, stand there and laugh as it bounces harmlessly off of you (or disintegrates around your unmoving form).  Maybe the size of the meteor should be adjusted per rank, starting out as a baseball-sized thing (so the lack of damage could be explained as "it missed you"), and then getting progressively larger per rank.

S-5.  Shadow Wings Spell

This is a very handy little charm.  Even at rank 0, you can travel 15 miles in 30 minutes.

S-6.  Web of Starlight Spell

Again, this is only effective against the "other flavors."

S-7.  Web of Blackness

Ditto.

S-8.  Meteor Swarm Spell

Fun, but nearly worthless at lower ranks.  You need rank 4 for the "meteors" to do the same damage as a dagger. 

S-9.  Dwarf Star Spell

A curious spell.  How do you adjudicate the effect of this?  I suppose the simple way would be to multiply the weight carried by the number of "gravities" generated, and look up the result on the Encumbrance Table.

S-10.  Spell of Blackfire

Woof.  It affects everyone in the path.  Nice.  Plus, it's really dirty black fire…

DEMONIC FUN:  A demon can cast a 10x50 foot column that does D+16.

S-11.  Spell of Shadow Walking

A Spy can use photographic memory to store a distant location.  Shadow Weaver + Spy = Good.

S-12.  Spell of Whitefire

"Flash fried?"  So, you can have someone use the Waterspout Spell to tear things apart and scatter the bloody pieces to the winds, and then flash fry them with this spell.  Hundreds of julienne fries!

S-13.  Spell of Fear

ABC.

R-1.  Ritual of Conjuring and Controlling the Dark Sphere

I know this must come from a particular book or movie, but I can't place it.  The problem with this ritual is that the effects are combat-oriented, but… well, it's a ritual.  "OK, you guys, just stand there for an hour, and then I'll get you!"  Seriously, when would anyone use this?

G-3.  Spell of Darkness

Awesome and dirt-cheap spell.  As with the Light spells, I feel the volume should increase with rank.  It seems a bit of a fine line to draw between the darkness of a cloudy night and that of a sealed room � most fantasy worlds are not going to have much in the way of light pollution, so when it's cloudy at night outside, it's frickin' dark. 

It does increase Volume as the rank increases.

G-5.  Wall of Starlight Spell

Anyone have a list of dark- and shadow-aligned creatures?  Is it only "Creatures of Night and Shadow," or does it go beyond that?

Something that just occurred to me about these wall spells: does anyone have a chart or something about how much damage it would take to knock down any of the wall spell walls (aside from the forthcoming Wall of Bones)?  Particularly, what exactly is a wall of starlight?  Does it act like a solid wall, or can you just walk through it?  Does it only impede dark- and shadow-aligned creatures?  How have you GM'ed this?

I've GM'ed this as a solid wall, thus impeding even Light Aligned Creatures.

G-6.  Wall of Darkness Spell

Is there a list of light-aligned creatures somewhere?

Ditto.

G-7.  Witchsight Spell

ABC (as a talent).

S-4.  Meteor Spell

At rank 0, a 25-foot-diameter meteor does D-4?  What's it made of, Styrofoam?  Even a giant Coco Puff would do more damage!  Here's the visual: a 25-foot-diameter fuckin' meteor comes cruising down on you from outer space.  You, in you mail, stand there and laugh as it bounces harmlessly off of you (or disintegrates around your unmoving form).  Maybe the size of the meteor should be adjusted per rank, starting out as a baseball-sized thing (so the lack of damage could be explained as "it missed you"), and then getting progressively larger per rank.

I've always interpreted it as a 25-foot-diameter area of effect, so effectively the damage is from blast effect.  I recently had a party ambushed by 4 night-guants who sequenced a series of meteors on their campsite.  They pretty much lost everything, except the horses who were picketed away from the tents.

S-8.  Meteor Swarm Spell

Fun, but nearly worthless at lower ranks.  You need rank 4 for the "meteors" to do the same damage as a dagger. 

True, but armor doesn't count.

S-9.  Dwarf Star Spell

A curious spell.  How do you adjudicate the effect of this?  I suppose the simple way would be to multiply the weight carried by the number of "gravities" generated, and look up the result on the Encumbrance Table.

I never thought of that.  I just multiplied the Rank by 10 and if that exceeded the targets strength, then they were pinned to the ground.  Dragon Fun, you can't pin a Dragon with this spell, though it can't fly.

R-1.  Ritual of Conjuring and Controlling the Dark Sphere

I know this must come from a particular book or movie, but I can't place it.  The problem with this ritual is that the effects are combat-oriented, but� well, it's a ritual.  "OK, you guys, just stand there for an hour, and then I'll get you!"  Seriously, when would anyone use this?

When they got time to plan.  Mostly used by the "bad guys"tm, against camped targets.  Also used for tunneling when there isn't a Earth Mage or Mind Mage (Molecular Rearrangement) handy.

~Jeffery~

> T-1. Speak to Shadow Creatures
>
> A "combination of telepathic contact, sign language,

and a few verbal symbols"? Why not throw in
semaphore, smoke signals, and tap dancing while we're
at it? Silliness, and needlessly complex. Why
not just let the Mage talk to the Shadow creature,
like all the other colleges get to do with animals of
their respective spheres?

*****
THIS SEEMS ESPECIALLY SILLY WHEN WE ALLOW SOME MAGES
TO TALK WITH PLANTS... ARE GRASSES AND FLOWERS MORE
COMMUNICATIVE THAN SHADOW CREATURES?





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I was referring to the cords (which were called matches in the day). You can also reference matchlock muskets - the precursors of flintlocks. I have long since forgotten when/where I learned that bit of trivia. Sorry.

--- Ran Hardin <dantalion64@excite.com> wrote:

>
> Rule 60: College of Celestial Magics
>

Ahh, the college of my first DQ character.... So much
flavour, so little power :-)

> S-4. Meteor Spell
>
> At rank 0, a 25-foot-diameter meteor does D-4?
> What's it made of,
> Styrofoam? Even a giant Coco Puff would do more
> damage! Here's the
> visual: a 25-foot-diameter fuckin' meteor comes
> cruising down on you
> from outer space. You, in you mail, stand there and
> laugh as it bounces
> harmlessly off of you (or disintegrates around your
> unmoving form).

*laughs*

Obviously the density of the rock changes per rank..
At rank 0 you have a pumice meteor!

Keep 'em coming!


Lev




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to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel.
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--- In dq-rules@yahoogroups.com, igmod@... wrote:

> G-3.  Spell of Darkness

> Awesome and dirt-cheap spell.  As with the Light spells, I feel the volume should increase with rank.  It seems a bit of a fine line to draw between the darkness of a cloudy night and that of a sealed room – most fantasy worlds are not going to have much in the way of light pollution, so when it's cloudy at night outside, it's frickin' dark. 

> It does increase Volume as the rank increases.

Well… uh… oh.  Yeah, it does.  Hm.  Well, in that case, it's doubly-mystifying that the Light Spell doesn't. (Apparently, I had a Spell of Darkness cast on my brain...)

> S-8.  Meteor Swarm Spell
> Fun, but nearly worthless at lower ranks.  You need rank 4 for the "meteors" to do the same damage as a dagger. 
> True, but armor doesn't count.

I think that depends on how you interpret the damage being inflicted as a result of the spell.  The rule on damage is this:

[25.4] Damage incurred as a result of a magical attack is applied differently.

Many spells attack figures with purely magical energy, while others inflict damage as a result of changes in the physical surroundings of the target (windstorms, falling rocks, and the like). When purely magical energy is involved, any damage is subtracted first from Fatigue (Endurance only when Fatigue is exhausted), but is not absorbed by armor. Other damage types, also subtracted from Fatigue, are absorbed by armor [DragonQuest Second edition Revised version 2.19, p.28].

There's something else at work besides pure magical energy, so I interpret this as being a physical attack ("falling rocks"), and therefore the damage would be absorbed by armor. 

> S-9.  Dwarf Star Spell

> A curious spell.  How do you adjudicate the effect of this?  I suppose the simple way would be to multiply the weight carried by the number of "gravities" generated, and look up the result on the Encumbrance Table.

> I never thought of that.  I just multiplied the Rank by 10 and if that exceeded the targets strength, then they were pinned to the ground.  Dragon Fun, you can't pin a Dragon with this spell, though it can't fly.

Actually, I like your rule better.  I never had to actually adjudicate the effects of this spell, but as I think of it, my way kind of sucks – for example, a naked person would never be affected by the spell, and that's just silly.  However, at rank 4, the "multiply rank by 10" rule would pin just about anyone.

Maybe another way would be to add [n pounds x spell rank] to the target's encumbrance, and calculate his encumbrance to see if he can still stand/move.  (I haven't read the other responses yet, so maybe there's a better way out there…)

--- In dq-rules@yahoogroups.com, Coyote Moon <khaiotimoon@...> wrote:

> > T-1.  Speak to Shadow Creature
> >
> > A "combination of telepathic contact, sign language,
> >and a few verbal symbols"?  Why not throw in
> >semaphore, smoke signals, and tap dancing while we're
> >at it?  Silliness, and needlessly complex. Why
> >not just let the Mage talk to the Shadow creature,
> >like all the other colleges get to do with animals of> their respective spheres?

> *****

> THIS SEEMS ESPECIALLY SILLY WHEN WE ALLOW SOME MAGES
> TO TALK WITH PLANTS... ARE GRASSES AND FLOWERS MORE
> COMMUNICATIVE THAN SHADOW CREATURES?

That's what I was thinking.  I can only guess that this is based on some "historical" ability, or a particular ability from some fantasy book I haven't read.  Anybody?

Celestial Magics always seemed to be an odd bird. With so much of the
rest of the game trying to base itself in historical precedents, why,
then, did they break from the classical four elements (Earth, Air, Fire,
and Water) and add a fifth one?

I think that Star Wars was on everyone's mind, and this was a way of
incorporating the Force into a fantasy RPG. Powers of Light and of
Darkness locked in conflict with one another. Allusions to the stars.
The spell creating an enchanted starsword (lightsaber?). Even the ritual
Dark Sphere could be a reference to the Death Star (or perhaps that
micro-Death Star interrogation droid).

We kicked around an idea for a campaign setting where Celestial mages were
something like the Jedi, traveling around like western sheriffs,
dispensing justice, but separated from the Entities-Elements-Thaumaturgies
divisions. They were their own thing. It seemed to fit.

--Rodger

I always thought this college was based on LOTR.  Much of Tolkien's other works seem to revolve around heavenly bodies and light vs. dark.  I agree that it doesn't fit with the elements.  It seems to fit better with the Thaumaturgies.


-- "Rodger Thorm" <rthorm@cornellbox.com> wrote:
Celestial Magics always seemed to be an odd bird.  With so much of the
rest of the game trying to base itself in historical precedents, why,
then, did they break from the classical four elements (Earth, Air, Fire,
and Water) and add a fifth one?

I think that Star Wars was on everyone's mind, and this was a way of
incorporating the Force into a fantasy RPG.  Powers of Light and of
Darkness locked in conflict with one another.  Allusions to the stars.
The spell creating an enchanted starsword (lightsaber?).  Even the ritual
Dark Sphere could be a reference to the Death Star (or perhaps that
micro-Death Star interrogation droid).

We kicked around an idea for a campaign setting where Celestial mages were
something like the Jedi, traveling around like western sheriffs,
dispensing justice, but separated from the Entities-Elements-Thaumaturgies
divisions.  They were their own thing.  It seemed to fit.

--Rodger





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Rule 61: The College of Necromantic Conjurations

So who wants to be a necromancer?  I do, I do!  There is a certain social stigma attached, but it's easily hidden by well-guarded lairs and close attention to hygiene.  The fun stuff is worth the potential burning at the stake for violating the laws of God and man, isn't it?  Sure it is!

T-1.  Ask The Dead

An extremely useful talent.  My Necromancer character learned a lot through using this talent.  Especially useful on someone you just killed. 

G-1. Spell of Conjuring Darkness

The hair-splitting over degrees of extreme darkness continues here.  Just for the record: absolute blackness that no light source can penetrate > sealed room with no light source > moonless night > cloudy night.  Look, it's dark, okay?

G-2.  Spell of Putrescence

File under category Just Plain Mean (JPM).  Really, this spell has no use other than to screw with somebody.  OK, maybe you can use it to make catfish bait or something, but…

G-3.  Spell of Obscurement

Mmmmm… oily black smoke.  The dimensions are pretty paltry, however. 

G-4.  Fire and Brimstone Spell

Infectious flame, and in a general knowledge spell too!  Is there any Necromancer who hasn't pumped a couple thousand XP into this?  Awesome and stinky.

G-5.  Spell of Heating Metal

On the other end of the Usefulness Spectrum is this lame spell.  Five degrees plus five per rank?  (Oh, the arcane power!  Say it ain't so!)  What do you do with this spell, warm your bedpan?  Use it to keep your eggs slightly warmer in the frying pan?

G-6.  Spell of Harming Entity

OK, I know I have frequent quibbles with the language used in these spell descriptions, but let's have a look at this one.  It says that the target of the spell will be in "intense agony" for the duration of the spell.  Now, how would you define "intense agony?"  Remember, this isn't just "pain," or even just "agony": it's intense agony.  How about a kick in the junk from someone wearing soccer cleats?  Sound about right?  Now, do you think that if you were kicked in the junk by someone wearing soccer cleats, you'd have more than a -10 to your strike chance?  Thought not.

G-7.  Spell of Noxious Vapors

"Noxious" means harmful, by the way.  Up to Rank 5, it reduces vision by 10 feet.  Not to 10 feet, mind you, just subtract 10 from your range of vision (which is what, again?).  Up to Rank 10, it's a sleep gas.  These are not harmful things.  The best you can ever do is give someone a 1-in-5 chance of contracting consumption.

What I find especially amusing is that the Air Magic's Sleep Gas spell puts the target to sleep and damages him!  Sounds far more "noxious" to me.  I intend to re-write this silly spell someday.

G-8.  Spell of Warping Wood

The bane of archers everywhere.  Does anyone know if it works on magical wooden items… like wands and staves?

G-9.  Ram of Force Spell

This is an interesting spell.  In theory, you could assign it an impossible task ("Knock down that stone door" would work, as its halted by stone), and it would be there, forever. 

Oh, and the last I checked, something that was 15' x'15' x'15' isn't a "column" so much as it's a "cube."

G-10.  Spell of Vapor Breathing

Handy spell.

Q-1.  Ritual of Summoning and Binding Lesser Undead

The duration of this is spell is Concentration, with a maximum of one week.  How well can you concentrate while being sleep deprived?  Hope you brought a big pot of coffee…

Q-2.  Ritual of Converse with the Dead

Worthless.  You set up a ritual, and get a bunch of riddles and puzzles?  When you can just use a talent to ask them yes and no questions?  Why bother?

S-1.  Spell of Causing Wounds

Infected Wounds… Every Necromancer loves `em.

S-2.  Wall of Force Spell

Not only is it a wall, it also knocks you on your ass.  Awesome!  What does it look like?

S-3.  Wall of Bones Spell

What a charming and delightful spell this is.  You get to make a ten foot high, one foot thick wall of bones (among other options).  And everyone's afraid of it.  Except for dogs.

S-4.  Spell of Fear

ABC.

S-5.  Mass Fear Spell

ABC.

S-6.  Spell of Scarring Terrain

JPM.  You ever wonder why a necromancer's lair is surrounded by blasted terrain?  Because they were practicing this spell.  This spell is also good for cutting short paths through jungles.

S-7.  Spell of Animation of the Dead

I love this spell.  Until DQ, skeletons and zombies were ubiquitous in D&D and the like, but no one knew where they came from.  Now any self-respecting Necromancer can have his own little entourage.

What I don't like about this spell is the huge difference between skeletons and zombies as far as combat capabilities.

Skeletons:  Can wear armor, use shields, and wield weapons (including Ranked weapons --  wha?!?  Hey, that's what it says in the Monsters section.  How this works, I haven't a clue).  Are immune to Type A damage.

Zombies: Never use weapons (I assume this goes for shields as well).  They attack using the Unarmed Combat rules, which means they suck.  They lose a point of EN every day they aren't re-animated.  They are immune to Grievous Injuries, but this makes no sense… if you cut off a zombie's arms and legs, what's it going to do, bite your kneecaps off?  (Sorry, but International Brotherhood of RPG Geeks union rules require me to make a Monty Python reference somewhere…)

Anyway, my point is that skeletons can carve some steaks outta people, while zombies mostly shuffle along and smell bad.

There are actually more tidbits about skeletons in the Monsters section.  It says that human skeletons are easier to animate than others.  This means that there should be some sort of penalty to animating non-human skeletons.  Not surprisingly, this penalty is not laid out in the rules.  But it does leave open the possibility of animating something other than a human skeleton.  What are the limits to this?  Can you animate a storm giant's skeleton (or as a zombie?)  How about a dragon?   OK, probably not, since the rules talk about using weapons and having hands and so forth.  But can you imagine facing down a couple of giant skeletons?  Awesome.

S-8.  Wraithcloak Spell

Another crappy protection spell.  At least this one increases your Stealth.

S-9.  Shadowed Weapon Spell

OK, you know how I love those "create a weapon out of nothing" spells.  So cool.

S-10.  Hand of Death Spell

Nasty spell.  It's gotta be from some book, right?

But I again have to quibble with the effects. OK, let's take a multiple-choice quiz…

Q. You are targeted by a Hand of Death Spell.  You feel as if your heart or some similar organ is getting squeezed to a pulp.  Do you:

• A.  Collapse to the ground, and writhe in drooling agony?
• B.  Collapse to the ground, curl up into a quivering fetal position, and whimper?
• C.  Stagger around clutching your chest, blinded by unbelievable anguish?
• D.  Take a -10 from your Strike Chance/spell cast chance and keep on truckin'?

Oh, yeah.  You also roll to resist or take damage.  Otherwise, you can feel free to mosey along like it's nothing.  I'm just sayin':  Change the description, or change the effects.

S-11.  Hellfire Spell

ABC.

S-12.  Spell of Life Draining

Classic necromancer's trick: steal your life force to better his own.  The ST boost is a mystery to me, however: you get to add to your ST, but only for the remainder of the pulse.  OK, when you cast the spell, you used your action for the pulse, right?  So what good is it?  It's like saying "OK, you get +20 FT, but only up until you next cast a spell or take damage."  Gee, thanks.  A good house rule might be to reduce the ST gain by 2 per pulse or something.

S-13.  Spell of Agony

Why, yes, I will beat this dead horse some more.  Now, with Harm Entity, you get to inflict intense agony, but a Spell of Agony inflicts extreme agony?  Why isn't it "Spell of Extreme Agony," then?  At least this spell more or less delivers what it promises.  However, this means that this spell makes you hurt considerably worse than having your organs squeezed.  What on earth would hurt more than that?  (Never mind – I don't want to know…)

S-14.  Phantasm Spell

ABC.

R-1.  Ritual of Summoning and Binding Greater Undead

AKA "Ritual of Making Greater Undead Enemies."

R-2.  Ritual of Life-Prolonging

Necromancers beware: overlap your rituals by at least a couple of weeks, in case there are unforeseen delays and interruptions. (A great plot idea for long-term games: interrupt your Necromancer player's rituals for several days/nights running, and get him real worried…)

R-3.  Ritual of Becoming Undead

Oh, what fun!  Sure, it can screw with the GM's game, but so what?  You get to become undead.  MWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!  

Here's the problem I have: how in the world do you gain rank in this ritual?  I mean, you have to practice a skill or spell at least once in between spending XP for each rank, right?  So do you fail the ritual on purpose the first several times?  Do you become a different wraith from Rank 2 to rank 3?

Final tally:

Number of spells that increase the chance of infection in this college: 2

Number of spells that increase the chance of infection in the college of Air Magics : 3

Um… which college is "concerned with the processes of life, death, decay, and putrefaction" again?

I never played using this college so I can not really comment much
except to state that I vaguely recall deciding that the organ
squeezing thing was more of a quick squeeze and release rather than a
prolonged grab and hold. Jut enough to get your attention rather than
make you die.

Also, I never used this college in any of my games because knowing
some of my players this would have been the only college any of them
ever chose...

Rule 62: College of Black Magics

This college, along with the College of Greater Summoning , convinced me I had purchased the right game.  I mean, these guys had the balls to introduce the concept of selling your soul in an RPG, not to mention virtually reprinting the entire Key of Solomon for our conjuring pleasure.  And as we all know, this stuff was excised when those wimps at TSR bowdlerized our precious game.  Jerks.

T-1 Witchsight

ABC.

T-2 Projected Image

Certainly an odd talent.  It can provide an interesting misdirection in certain situations.  Is this based on something evil witches were supposed to be able to do?

T-3 Special Alchemy

What an amazing bargain this talent is! You can set up your own trinket shop, poison your enemies, clear up your skin, make the unwilling fall in love with you, and knock `em up in record time.  A boatload of helpful, if sometimes expensive, paraphernalia.

G-1 Spell of Fear

ABC.

G-2 Spell of Darkness

ABC.

G-3 Spell of Walking Unseen

ABC.

G-4 The Damnum Minatum

JPM, but that'll teach `em!  You'd almost think that a Black Mage is basically not a nice person or something.  Oh, does anyone know exactly what gout is supposed to do to you?  Seems like it should take a couple of points from AG, and maybe lower your TMR, too.  It's interesting that the designer considers muteness (only afflictable with rank 14 & up) a more serious curse than blindness (afflictable rank 11-13).  For Adepts, I suppose it would be, but for everyone else?

G-5  Spell of Storm-Calling

ABC.

G-6.  Wind Whistle Spell

ABC.  Geez, don't Black Mages get any unique spells?

G-7.  Spell of Protection Against Were-Creatures

I guess this'll be very handy that one time in your life you'll need it…

G-8.  Spell of Summoning Enchanted Creature

Inexplicably, there is no corresponding Control Enchanted Creature spell.  Better hopes he's friendly…

G-9.  Spell of Putrescence

ABC.

G-10.  Spell of Harming Entity

ABC, already!

G-11.  Spell of Igniting Flammables

With all the cross-referencing in this college, is this spell really any different than the Spell of Pyrogenesis?

G-12.  Spell of Hypnotism

ABC.

G-13. Mind Cloak Spell

ABC.

G-14.  Call Master Spell

OK, there's a unique spell!  I drove a Black Mage player crazy by having his familiar constantly suggesting that he call his Master.  (When wrestling with a  stuck door)  "Call the Lord of the Pit – he can open it, by golly!"  (When rebuffed by a beautiful maiden)  "Call the Lord of the Pit – he'll teach her a thing or two about manners!"  Did I mention his familiar sounded a lot like Beaver Cleaver?

Q-1.  The Tarot

One thing about Black Mages: they have such wonderful toys.  Not that these abilities are that all-fired useful, but they are fun to play with.

S-1.  Spell of Converse with Animals

"… An evil petting zoo?" 

S-2.  Spell of Nightvision

ABC.

S-3.  Spell of Blending

Great for the Black Mage addicted to daiquiris.  Oh, no, wait, it's ABC.  Again.

S-4.  Spell of Blight on Crops

JPM.  I'm of the opinion that the area should increase a bit more.  I suppose 21 acres in a Medieval/Renaissance setting is a lot more significant than it would be for today's farmer, but it still seems a bit paltry.

DEMONIC FUN:  21 acres blighted for 21 years, with a 40% chance of out-and-out crop failure.

S-5.  Spell of Blessing On Crops

I had an NPC Black Mage who used to cast this on the orchids in his greenhouse.

S-6.  Spell of Pestilence on Livestock

Yikes.  Magic Mad Cow Disease.  Especially vicious against a wealthy horse-owner.

DEMONIC FUN: The spell lasts for 1 year, 9 months.  Since the affected livestock automatically infect any other livestock they come into contact with, this could seriously screw a kingdom's (continent's?) economy, not to mention their cavalry.  Sure, maybe some mage could cast a counterspell, but he'd have to know where the curse was cast, wouldn't he?  He'd also have to know the deaths were magical in origin to begin with, and not just some virulent new disease.

S-7.  Spell of Blessing on Livestock

For those days when you wake up on the sunny side of the bed…

S-8.  Spell of Controlling Animals

ABC.

S-9.  Evil Eye Spell

ABC.

S-10.  Spell of Causing Disease

Oh, my goodness.  The fun you'll have!  It strikes me that stealthy Black Mages make for really vicious saboteurs during war time.

DEMONIC FUN: Demons can cause pneumonic plague, which is much quicker-acting and more virulent than its bubonic cousin. It's still not as much fun as rotten sores full of worms, though – a la Savnok, Marquis of Corruption, who, oddly enough, is an Earth Mage(?!).  I guess that's where the worms come from…

S-11.  Spell of Blessing or Curse on Unborn Child

This is one of those "Oh, yeah? Prove it!" spells.

DEMONIC FUN:  Demons can add or subtract 8 to one characteristic, sort of a DIY Antichrist situation.

S-12.  Spell of Virility

Now, where's that virility rule, again?  What is this spell supposed to accomplish, really?  Viagra-like properties?  Hardly worth signing the Lesser Pact for…

S-13.  Spell of Creating Restorative

One of those pay-through-the-nose spells.  Eh.

S-14.  Wall of Bones Spell

ABC.

S-15.  Mass Fear Spell

ABC.

S-16.  Spell of Agony

ABC.

S-17.  Fire and Brimstone Spell

ABC.

S-18.  Spell of Animation of the Dead

ABC.

S-19.  Hellfire Spell

ABC.  Geez, you sell your soul, and get a bunch of re-tread spells?

S-20.  Shadow Wings Spell

ABC.

S-21.  Skin Change Spell

Ah, now here's the money spell!  A devious Black Mage with a Death Aspect invented an insidious method of giving himself a distinct advantage using this spell:  He made little mouse-pelt rings imbued with the spell, then captured the helpless suckers who tried one on and kept their little rodent-selves in a bag.  Before a combat, he'd fish one out of his bag and twist its head off.  Presto!  +20 to everything!

S-22.  Earth Tremor Spell

Kind of anti-climactic after all that.  Paltry area of effect.

R-1.  Ritual of Controlling the Weather

ABC?  Come on.

R-2.  Ritual of Summoning Animals

ABC.

R-3.  Ritual of Casting the Runes

Do not piss off a Black Mage who's made the Greater Pact.  Personally, I would not want to see someone like, say, Bune The Dragon Duke go all Terminator on me. This ritual inspires the most desperate game of "hot potato" that can be imagined.

R-4.  Ritual of Creeping Doom

JPM.

R-5.  The Hand of Glory

If I said this was a "handy" item… okay, better not. I see that look in your eye.

R-6.  The Dead Man's Candle

These last two create some serious tools.

OK, there's a unique spell!  I drove a Black Mage player crazy by having his familiar constantly suggesting that he call his Master.  (When wrestling with a  stuck door)  "Call the Lord of the Pit � he can open it, by golly!"  (When rebuffed by a beautiful maiden)  "Call the Lord of the Pit � he'll teach her a thing or two about manners!"  Did I mention his familiar sounded a lot like Beaver Cleaver?

--- Ran Hardin <dantalion64@excite.com> wrote:

>
> Rule 62: College of Black Magics
>
> This college, along with the College of Greater
> Summoning, convinced me
> I had purchased the right game. I mean, these guys
> had the balls to
> introduce the concept of selling your soul in an
> RPG,

Clarification; RuneQuest (1978) required sacrifice of
a character's soul (POW characteristic) in order to
gain Rune magics.

> not to mention
> virtually reprinting the entire Key of Solomon for
> our conjuring
> pleasure.

Clarification: The listing of demons is pretty much
the Ars Goetia, one of five books of the Lemegeton
Clavicula Salomonis.

> And as we all know, this stuff was
> excised when those wimps
> at TSR bowdlerized our precious game. Jerks.
>

Yes. Whilst I appreciate some of the system changes in
DQ3, and the new colleges are OK, they really took a
lot of flavour of it...

The Special Magic spells of this college are pretty cool...



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--- In dq-rules@yahoogroups.com, Lev Lafayette <lev_lafayette@...> wrote:
>
>
> --- Ran Hardin dantalion64@... wrote:
>
> >
> > Rule 62: College of Black Magics
> >
> > This college, along with the College of Greater
> > Summoning, convinced me
> > I had purchased the right game. I mean, these guys
> > had the balls to
> > introduce the concept of selling your soul in an
> > RPG,
>
> Clarification; RuneQuest (1978) required sacrifice of
> a character's soul (POW characteristic) in order to
> gain Rune magics.

OK, so for accuracy's sake, "These guys had the balls to introduce to me the concept of selling your soul in an RPG..."  ;)
>
> > not to mention
> > virtually reprinting the entire Key of Solomon for
> > our conjuring
> > pleasure.
>
> Clarification: The listing of demons is pretty much
> the Ars Goetia, one of five books of the Lemegeton
> Clavicula Salomonis.

"... entire Key of Solomon" is a bit of hyperbole, there, LL, you know what I mean?  The gist of what I was saying is that DQ didn't just make up a bunch of corny demons -- they dug up a copy of Lemegton Calvicula Salomonis (or Lesser Key of Solomon, the more common title for it), and used the demon descriptions almost verbatim, which was a pretty ballsy thing to do.  Impressed the hell out of me at the time, especially as I had only recently stumbled across it in a university library a few months before getting introduced to DQ, after reading some crappy Exorcist knock-off and wondering about the description of the demons in it.  "Dude, they used the demons from that one magic book..."  :D

> > And as we all know, this stuff was
> > excised when those wimps
> > at TSR bowdlerized our precious game. Jerks.
> >
>
> Yes. Whilst I appreciate some of the system changes in
> DQ3, and the new colleges are OK, they really took a
> lot of flavour of it...
>
> The Special Magic spells of this college are pretty cool...
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online.
> http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/webhosting
>

--- Ran Hardin <dantalion64@excite.com> wrote:

> > Clarification; RuneQuest (1978) required sacrifice
> of
> > a character's soul (POW characteristic) in order
> to
> > gain Rune magics.
>
> OK, so for accuracy's sake, "These guys had the
> balls to introduce to me
> the concept of selling your soul in an RPG..." ;)

Fairy snuff...

> > Clarification: The listing of demons is pretty
> much
> > the Ars Goetia, one of five books of the Lemegeton
> > Clavicula Salomonis.
>
> "... entire Key of Solomon" is a bit of hyperbole,
> there, LL, you know
> what I mean?

*nods* DragonQuest would be a very strange but dull
read if it reprinted the lesser key..

> The gist of what I was saying is that
> DQ didn't just make
> up a bunch of corny demons -- they dug up a copy of
> Lemegton Calvicula
> Salomonis (or Lesser Key of Solomon, the more common
> title for it), and
> used the demon descriptions almost verbatim, which
> was a pretty ballsy
> thing to do.

Yep; I'm still using those descriptions. It's one of
the most lasting and evocative features of the game
really.

(Along with introducing a PERception stat)

All the best,


Lev

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--- In dq-rules@yahoogroups.com, Martin Gallo <martimer@...> wrote:

> > G-7.  Spell of Protection Against Were-Creatures
> > I guess this'll be very handy that one time in your life you'll 
> > need it…

> Unless you happen to know you are up against that evil were-Earth 

> mage that has been terrorizing the neighborhood...

Exactly what I'm getting at...That one time in your life when you'll actually need it.  Unless your GM has whipped up a whole society of evil were-something mages, chances are this spell will get used about as often as a "Infect Self With Virulent Skin Disease" spell.

> > S-12.  Spell of Virility
> > Now, where's that virility rule, again?  What is this spell 
> > supposed to accomplish, really?  Viagra-like properties?  Hardly 
> > worth signing the Lesser Pact for…

> How old are you, again? This spell could make a mage rather rich 

rather quickly!

OK, there's actually several problems with this spell, especially where using it to make money is concerned: one (as pointed out) is that there are no rules for virility, so increasing virility by 5% + 5 per rank is a meaningless figure.  Secondly, if we say that the unwritten rule provides a percent chance for getting it up, the added chance is hardly Viagra-like (since someone with significant erectile dysfunction would have a low BC of success to start with, right?).  But even if you gain several ranks with it, how do you prove that it was your spell that did the trick, and not something else?  Even worse, if the target subsequently misses his virility roll, how do you prove that you actually cast a spell, and didn't just give him the shaft (so to speak)?  Finally, only Black Mages can cast this spell, and only after signing the Lesser Pact.  This means that it would eventually be something less than a secret that if a mage promises to increase your virility by casting a spell, it means he's a Black Mage.  On top of that, the mage has given up something significant to sign the Lesser Pact, like an eye, a thumb, or something that's most likely noticeable.  What I'm driving at is that I hardly think a Black Mage will be doing volume business with this spell, because of the inherent social limitations and dangers of being a Black Mage (unless the game world is largely a dark place with few people who think that someone sworn to the Powers of Darkness is a serious threat).  Black Mages just normally don't advertise their presence.

Now, having said that, a crafty Black Mage might insinuate himself into the good graces of a wealthy man without spilling the beans about his true nature, and then use this spell to help the previously childless wealthy man conceive a child.  That could be worth some serious gold; it's just not quite as easy as standing on a street corner and saying "Get it up magically!  Get your Black Magic virility spell right here!  Only 100 gold a pop!"  :D

Not that I wish to benefit from your pain, but what would you say the game effects of gout would be?  Sounds like a significant, ifn not total, AG reduction.  Maybe a -10 to AG when an attack takes place?

--- In dq-rules@yahoogroups.com, "WAKEFIELD Leigh" <leigh_wakefield@...> wrote:
>
>
> Gout sucks big time.
>
> I've had several attacks and believe me it'll put you down!
>
> Hurts like a b!tch!!
>
>
> Leigh Wakefield
> Credit Controller
> Kohler Mira Limited, Cromwell Road, Cheltenham, GL52 5EP
> T:01242 282514 F:0870 849 8054
>
> www.kohleruk.com <http://www.kohleruk.com/> www.mirashowers.com
> <http://www.mirashowers.com/> www.radacontrols.com
> <http://www.radacontrols.com/> www.daryl-showers.co.uk
> <http://www.daryl-showers.co.uk/>
>
> P Please Consider the environment before printing this Email
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: dq-rules@yahoogroups.com [mailto:dq-rules@yahoogroups.com] On
> Behalf Of Martin Gallo
> Sent: 18 October 2007 16:59
> To: dq-rules@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [dq-rules] Part 9 - Humorous Review of DQ Magic
>
>
>
> G-4 The Damnum Minatum
>
> JPM, but that'll teach `em! You'd almost think that a Black
> Mage is basically not a nice person or something. Oh, does anyone know
> exactly what gout is supposed to do to you? Seems like it should take a
> couple of points from AG, and maybe lower your TMR, too. It's
> interesting that the designer considers muteness (only afflictable with
> rank 14 & up) a more serious curse than blindness (afflictable rank
> 11-13). For Adepts, I suppose it would be, but for everyone else?
>
> Been married long? I think my fiancee would die of she could not talk,
> for five minutes.
>
>
> G-7. Spell of Protection Against Were-Creatures
>
> I guess this'll be very handy that one time in your life you'll
> need it...
>
> Unless you happen to know you are up against that evil were-Earth mage
> that has been terrorizing the neighborhood...
>
>
> S-12. Spell of Virility
>
> Now, where's that virility rule, again? What is this spell
> supposed to accomplish, really? Viagra-like properties? Hardly worth
> signing the Lesser Pact for...
>
> How old are you, again? This spell could make a mage rather rich rather
> quickly!
>
>
> S-22. Earth Tremor Spell
>
> Kind of anti-climactic after all that. Paltry area of effect.
>
> Useful for causing Concentration Checks...
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Kohler Mira Limited, Registered Office: Cromwell Road, Cheltenham, Gloucestershire, GL52 5EP. Registered in England No. 252115
>

Rule 63: College of Greater Summoning

I abolished this college on my world, because I found it to be an odd combination of scary power and inaction for a player character.  This might have simply been the way I and my gaming group handled it, though, so I don't want to make any general pronouncements.  It just seems like the point of this college is to summon someone to do your dirty work for you, which is fun, but ultimately not fun, if you see what I mean.  Better suited for a solo game, maybe, because then you can focus on the interaction between demon and mage.  Anyway, in my game world, any Adept can summon any demon – if he finds the ritual written down to summon that particular demon.  Needless to say, these summoning scrolls are few and far between.

However, if I was playing a Summoner, I'd be tempted to only summon the teaching demons, and jack my ranks in various skills way up.  That way, I could be a competent adventurer without resorting to the dangers of calling up various nasties to do my bidding.

So… as a lovely parting gift for playing my game, here's a handy list of all the demonic teachers:

DUKES

Agares – "A masterful teacher of languages" (but no particulars given.)

Bathin – Can teach Alchemist, Beast Master, Healer, Troubadour at half XP cost.

Valefor – EP cost halved when learning Thief Skill.

PRESIDENTS

Buer – Another teacher of languages, without particulars given.

Camio – can teach the languages of birds and mammals; also teach the speech of running waters to know what has passed in a particular place (no particulars given).

Foras – Another language teacher; also, for the Skills Astrologer, Healer, Mechanician, Merchant, Navigator, Troubadour, an hour in his company equals one month of training, and at half XP cost.

Haagenti – On hour equals two months with halved XP cost for learning Alchemist Skill.

Labolas – Can teach Assassin, Beast Master, Military Scientist, Ranger, Spy, Thief in one hour at NO XP cost.  I'm assuming the text means "can teach as a new Skill…"

EARLS

Bifrons:  One hour equals one month with NO XP cost for learning Navigation Skill.

Renove: One hour equals one month of training, for half XP, in Assassin, Beast Master, Courtesan, Healer, Merchant, Navigator, Ranger, Spy, Thief, Troubadour – if you are willing to pay the price (sexual favors).

MARQUIS:

Andrealphus: Make of this what you will:  "An hour in his teaching will increase the pupil's abilities in counting and measuring fourfold. Any Skill dependent upon such talents will also be increased thereby and subsequent increase in Rank will cost only half EP's (round down)" (DQ Revised Second Edition version 2.19, p. 91).  They couldn't just list the skills that affects?

Forneus:  An hour spent in his company in the learning of a language is equal to two months of learning from any non-demonic teacher.

Naberius: One hour equals two weeks training at half XP cost for Alchemist, Assassin, Healer, Mechanician, Merchant, Military Scientist, Navigator, Spy, Thief and Troubadour.

KINGS

Balam: One hour equals one month's training at NO XP cost for the Troubadour Skill.

Zagan:  One hour equals three weeks with halved XP cost for learning troubadour Skill.

> > S-12.  Spell of Virility
> > Now, where's that virility rule, again?  What is this spell 
> > supposed to accomplish, really?  Viagra-like properties?  Hardly 
> > worth signing the Lesser Pact for…

> How old are you, again? This spell could make a mage rather rich rather quickly!

OK, there's actually several problems with this spell, especially where using it to make money is concerned: one (as pointed out) is that there are no rules for virility, so increasing virility by 5% + 5 per rank is a meaningless figure.  Secondly, if we say that the unwritten rule provides a percent chance for getting it up, the added chance is hardly Viagra-like (since someone with significant erectile dysfunction would have a low BC of success to start with, right?).  But even if you gain several ranks with it, how do you prove that it was your spell that did the trick, and not something else?  Even worse, if the target subsequently misses his virility roll, how do you prove that you actually cast a spell, and didn't just give him the shaft (so to speak)?  Finally, only Black Mages can cast this spell, and only after signing the Lesser Pact.  This means that it would eventually be something less than a secret that if a mage promises to increase your virility by casting a spell, it means he's a Black Mage.  On top of that, the mage has given up something significant to sign the Lesser Pact, like an eye, a thumb, or something that's most likely noticeable.  What I'm driving at is that I hardly think a Black Mage will be doing volume business with this spell, because of the inherent social limitations and dangers of being a Black Mage (unless the game world is largely a dark place with few people who think that someone sworn to the Powers of Darkness is a serious threat).  Black Mages just normally don't advertise their presence.

Now, having said that, a crafty Black Mage might insinuate himself into the good graces of a wealthy man without spilling the beans about his true nature, and then use this spell to help the previously childless wealthy man conceive a child.  That could be worth some serious gold; it's just not quite as easy as standing on a street corner and saying "Get it up magically!  Get your Black Magic virility spell right here!  Only 100 gold a pop!"  :D

I don't recall where I read it, but the base chance of a woman getting pregnant is 3%.  Healers of course can raise that chance, as can the spell of virility.  Of course Healers and Herbalists can help a woman not get pregnant.

~Jeffery~

--- In dq-rules@yahoogroups.com, "Jeffery K. McGonagill" <igmod@...> wrote:

>  

> Exactly what I'm getting at...That one time in your life when you'll actually need it.  Unless your GM has whipped up a whole society of evil were-something mages, chances are this spell will get used about as often as a "Infect Self With Virulent Skin Disease" spell.

>

> In my world Black Mages are required to be registered and are tolerated because they do have some socially useful spells.

 

Wow, a major difference from my game world.  Mages are few and far between in my world, and there's not a level of bureaucracy sufficient to "register" anyone – but then again it's a place where people are trying to pick up the pieces following a protracted and bloody rebellion that brought to an end a Golden Age…

 

I'm curious, though: what kind of mindset does a society have that tolerates someone who has willingly made himself a minion of a Power of Darkness just for the benefit of a few spells?  "Sure, I sold my soul to the Dark One, and hope to one day sit at his cloven feet as he bestrides the world, bathing in the blood of the innocent – but in the meantime, let me bless some crops for you…"  ;)

I never had black mages (or summoners) as PCs in the games I ran, but
there were a few NPCs around. These are (obviously) the colleges that
made for great villains. Another aspect that everybody played
differently was the political/social roles and organizational
structure that the colleges played in the games.

For example, the term "college" implies an actual physical place of
learning, like a building. I never had such - players never had to go
to the school to learn their spells. In fact, we never played that
part of the game out! In my long planned but probably never to see
the light of day new campaign based on the stuff I did in high school
and a few years after that, I have an actual organization, but
nothing like a campus. There are organized mage training sessions and
a few training camps (rather not have the kiddies throwing fire,
calling tornadoes and blighting crops in the town square) with actual
teachers but I intend to have the whole thing run more like a weekend
warrior training camp nearish to town - a National Guard not really
run by the Government, but with a Government oversight.

Marty

--- Martin Gallo <martimer@mindspring.com> wrote:

> For example, the term "college" implies an actual
> physical place of
> learning, like a building. I never had such -
> players never had to go
> to the school to learn their spells.

I always read that as a sort of collegial system
between practioners of the same type of magic. It can
be loosely structured or with buildings and deans and
so forth.

Or to quote Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance:

"The real university is not a material object. It is
not a group of buildings that can be defended by
police.... [The real university] has no specific
location. It owns no property, pays no salaries and
receives no material dues. The real university is a
state of mind. It is that great heritage of rational
thought that has been brought down to us through the
centuries and which does not exist at any specific
location. It's a state of mind, which is regenerated
throughout the centuries by a body of people who
traditionally carry the title of professor, but even
that title is not part of the real university. The
real university is nothing less than the continuing
body of reason itself."


All the best,



Lev

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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Wow, a major difference from my game world.  Mages are few and far between in my world, and there's not a level of bureaucracy sufficient to "register" anyone – but then again it's a place where people are trying to pick up the pieces following a protracted and bloody rebellion that brought to an end a Golden Age…

My world is several centuries recovering from a disastrous conflict (much like WWI) in which mages, mechanicians, and alchemists contributed.  The Mage Guild is the bureaucracy that supervises Black Mages out of self-preservation, as well as other Mages that create problems.

I'm curious, though: what kind of mindset does a society have that tolerates someone who has willingly made himself a minion of a Power of Darkness just for the benefit of a few spells?  "Sure, I sold my soul to the Dark One, and hope to one day sit at his cloven feet as he bestrides the world, bathing in the blood of the innocent – but in the meantime, let me bless some crops for you…"  ;)

While there are renegade Black Mages, most are only putting themselves at risk (in my world).  This is not to say that all societies approve, but most realize that there will be people that choose this route and it is better to have some control over them than none.

~Jeffery~

 

Rule 63: College of Greater Summoning

I abolished this college on my world, because I found it to be an odd combination of scary power and inaction for a player character.  This might have simply been the way I and my gaming group handled it, though, so I don't want to make any general pronouncements.  It just seems like the point of this college is to summon someone to do your dirty work for you, which is fun, but ultimately not fun, if you see what I mean.  Better suited for a solo game, maybe, because then you can focus on the interaction between demon and mage.  Anyway, in my game world, any Adept can summon any demon – if he finds the ritual written down to summon that particular demon.  Needless to say, these summoning scrolls are few and far between.

However, if I was playing a Summoner, I'd be tempted to only summon the teaching demons, and jack my ranks in various skills way up.  That way, I could be a competent adventurer without resorting to the dangers of calling up various nasties to do my bidding.

So… as a lovely parting gift for playing my game, here's a handy list of all the demonic teachers:

DUKES

Agares – "A masterful teacher of languages" (but no particulars given.)

Bathin – Can teach Alchemist, Beast Master, Healer, Troubadour at half XP cost.

Valefor – EP cost halved when learning Thief Skill.

PRESIDENTS

Buer – Another teacher of languages, without particulars given.

Camio – can teach the languages of birds and mammals; also teach the speech of running waters to know what has passed in a particular place (no particulars given).

Foras – Another language teacher; also, for the Skills Astrologer, Healer, Mechanician, Merchant, Navigator, Troubadour, an hour in his company equals one month of training, and at half XP cost.

Haagenti – On hour equals two months with halved XP cost for learning Alchemist Skill.

Labolas – Can teach Assassin, Beast Master, Military Scientist, Ranger, Spy, Thief in one hour at NO XP cost.  I'm assuming the text means "can teach as a new Skill…"

EARLS

Bifrons:  One hour equals one month with NO XP cost for learning Navigation Skill.

Renove: One hour equals one month of training, for half XP, in Assassin, Beast Master, Courtesan, Healer, Merchant, Navigator, Ranger, Spy, Thief, Troubadour – if you are willing to pay the price (sexual favors).

MARQUIS:

Andrealphus: Make of this what you will:  "An hour in his teaching will increase the pupil's abilities in counting and measuring fourfold. Any Skill dependent upon such talents will also be increased thereby and subsequent increase in Rank will cost only half EP's (round down)" (DQ Revised Second Edition version 2.19, p. 91).  They couldn't just list the skills that affects?

Forneus:  An hour spent in his company in the learning of a language is equal to two months of learning from any non-demonic teacher.

Naberius: One hour equals two weeks training at half XP cost for Alchemist, Assassin, Healer, Mechanician, Merchant, Military Scientist, Navigator, Spy, Thief and Troubadour.

KINGS

Balam: One hour equals one month's training at NO XP cost for the Troubadour Skill.

Zagan:  One hour equals three weeks with halved XP cost for learning troubadour Skill.

In the DQ games that I ran being a Black Mage or a Greater Summoner was not prohibited
but I made it clear that practicing Black Magic was illegal and punishable by death. The
laws of the land also held a greater summoner responsible for any act performed by a
summoned demon. If the Mage summoned a Succubus and she beguiled the son of the
local lord into sexual relations, under the law that was rape.
I did have a PC run a dwarf Greater Summoner. He would usually sommon a
hero or a succubus to help the party out. One of their adventures involved an assault on a
castle. He summoned Alloces to help. I rolled reaction (I always do that for summoned
demons) and got a favorable reaction. The player thought they were going to have an easy
time, untill Alloces woke them up with revelle at first light the next day. He put the players
through boot camp (for their own good, he liked them but they were too soft and needed
toughning up). The players got a +1 to FT at the end of the adventure. Another adventure
involved a rather nasty cult of Necromanciers. The first time the party attacked their lair
they got mauled very badly and one PC was taken prisioner. The Greater Summoner
decided he needed major help. He summoned Barbatos. Barbatos is one of the most
dangerous demons you can summon. Knowing the true names of everything and being
able to command them is very very scary. Barbatos was in foul mood too. (I rolled a
horrible reaction.) After some exchange where Barbatos demanded his release or dire
events would fall on the Summoner. The GS attempted to bind Barbatos. Barbatos cast the
counter spell and actively resisted. His chance of binding Barbatos was 5% and anything
over 45 was going to back fire. Right in front of me the player rolled 02! I made a note
that Barbatos was now going to play along with the PCs until they made a mistake. When
the PCs explained the situation Barbatos politely requested a weapon. The players asked
what kind. He said a giant glaive would be good. They got him one. They went into the
lair. Barbatos was clearing traps, bridging obstacles, paralyzing opponents, and getting
the party so deep that without him they had little chance of escape. They eventualy came
to a 4 way intersection. To their left was an unlocked room, strewn with gold nuggets.
(Trap) To thier right a guard post with 13 tougher than average Orc warriors. Ahead of the
party concealed by Sorcery of the Mind Invisibility were 7 high ranking cultists. (The
Necormanciers had the means of stealing spells from other colleges with ritual sacrafice.)
The players didn't see them Barbatos did and said nothing. The players were trying to
figure out what to do about the Orcs. The Necromanciers knew they were toast against
Barbatos. Finally one of the players suggested sending Barbatos to deal with the Orcs.
Barbatos agreed and walked into the room. He commanded the door to open for no had
but his and started killing orcs. The Necromanciers opened fire. A Ram of Force bowled
over the party. One member was slammed against the far wall and knocked unconcious. 2
PC and a summoned hero charged the now visible Necromancier. 2 other Necromanciers
joined the fray with 2 walls of bones. The first cut off the 1st 3 party members from the
rest of the group. The second cut of their escape. 3 party members now faced 7
necromanciers. They were getting the worst of it. In the meantime the rest of the party
was having trouble making fear checks and trying to destroy the walls of bones. The
Summoner said Barbatos, Barbatos, I will release you if you kill everyone one the other side
of that wall. That wall being the one the 7 necromanciers and 2 PCs were on the other side
of. Barbatos said "you have a deal" and then commanded the stone by its true name to let
him pass and did just that, starting with the PCs. The surviving players did escape, barely.
The captured PC was sacraficed and his knowledge and spells used to vex the party for the
next several adventures. You can have a lot of fun with Greater Summoning and Greater
Summoners.

--- In dq-rules@yahoogroups.com, "Ran Hardin" <dantalion64@...> wrote:
>
>
> Rule 63: College of Greater Summoning
>
>
>
> I abolished this college on my world, because I found it to be an odd
> combination of scary power and inaction for a player character. This
> might have simply been the way I and my gaming group handled it, though,
> so I don't want to make any general pronouncements. It just seems
> like the point of this college is to summon someone to do your dirty
> work for you, which is fun, but ultimately not fun, if you see what I
> mean. Better suited for a solo game, maybe, because then you can focus
> on the interaction between demon and mage. Anyway, in my game world,
> any Adept can summon any demon – if he finds the ritual written down
> to summon that particular demon. Needless to say, these summoning
> scrolls are few and far between.
>
>
>
> However, if I was playing a Summoner, I'd be tempted to only summon
> the teaching demons, and jack my ranks in various skills way up. That
> way, I could be a competent adventurer without resorting to the dangers
> of calling up various nasties to do my bidding.
>
>
>
> So… as a lovely parting gift for playing my game, here's a handy
> list of all the demonic teachers:
>
>
>
> DUKES
>
>
>
> Agares – "A masterful teacher of languages" (but no
> particulars given.)
>
>
>
> Bathin – Can teach Alchemist, Beast Master, Healer, Troubadour at
> half XP cost.
>
>
>
> Valefor – EP cost halved when learning Thief Skill.
>
>
>
> PRESIDENTS
>
>
>
> Buer – Another teacher of languages, without particulars given.
>
>
>
> Camio – can teach the languages of birds and mammals; also teach the
> speech of running waters to know what has passed in a particular place
> (no particulars given).
>
>
>
> Foras – Another language teacher; also, for the Skills Astrologer,
> Healer, Mechanician, Merchant, Navigator, Troubadour, an hour in his
> company equals one month of training, and at half XP cost.
>
>
>
> Haagenti – On hour equals two months with halved XP cost for
> learning Alchemist Skill.
>
>
>
> Labolas – Can teach Assassin, Beast Master, Military Scientist,
> Ranger, Spy, Thief in one hour at NO XP cost. I'm assuming the text
> means "can teach as a new Skill…"
>
>
>
> EARLS
>
>
>
> Bifrons: One hour equals one month with NO XP cost for learning
> Navigation Skill.
>
>
>
> Renove: One hour equals one month of training, for half XP, in Assassin,
> Beast Master, Courtesan, Healer, Merchant, Navigator, Ranger, Spy,
> Thief, Troubadour – if you are willing to pay the price (sexual
> favors).
>
>
>
> MARQUIS:
>
>
>
> Andrealphus: Make of this what you will: "An hour in his teaching
> will increase the pupil's abilities in counting and measuring
> fourfold. Any Skill dependent upon such talents will also be increased
> thereby and subsequent increase in Rank will cost only half EP's
> (round down)" (DQ Revised Second Edition version 2.19, p. 91). They
> couldn't just list the skills that affects?
>
>
>
> Forneus: An hour spent in his company in the learning of a language is
> equal to two months of learning from any non-demonic teacher.
>
>
>
> Naberius: One hour equals two weeks training at half XP cost for
> Alchemist, Assassin, Healer, Mechanician, Merchant, Military Scientist,
> Navigator, Spy, Thief and Troubadour.
>
>
>
> KINGS
>
>
>
> Balam: One hour equals one month's training at NO XP cost for the
> Troubadour Skill.
>
>
>
> Zagan: One hour equals three weeks with halved XP cost for learning
> troubadour Skill.
>

While I was looking for a quick and simple solution for combat for
inconsequential battles I came across something that pertained to an earlier
question. According to Dragon Notes in Ares 8, the chance of conception is
5%.

Does anyone have a quck and simple way to resolve combat?

~Jeffery~

Jeffery K. McGonagill wrote:

> Does anyone have a quck and simple way to resolve combat?
>

Have both sides roll a d6. The highest roll wins.

What? Not what you were looking for? <slinks back into the shadows.>

:)

Darren

--- In dq-rules@yahoogroups.com, "Jeffery K. McGonagill" <igmod@...>
wrote:

>
> Does anyone have a quck and simple way to resolve combat?
>
> ~Jeffery~

Seems like another issue of Ares had some kind of group combat
resolution system. I never used it myself, because it seemed clunky
and possibly kludgy, but if you haven't already seen it, it might be
worth looking up.

Leigh Wakefield
Credit Controller
Kohler Mira Limited, Cromwell Road, Cheltenham, GL52 5EP
T:01242 282514   F:0870 849 8054

www.kohleruk.com  www.mirashowers.com   www.radacontrols.com  www.daryl-showers.co.uk

P Please Consider the environment before printing this Email 

Kohler Mira Limited, Registered Office: Cromwell Road, Cheltenham, Gloucestershire, GL52 5EP. Registered in England No. 252115

My recollection of that is what had me digging through my old Ares. You are
right it is clunky and kludgy.

~Jeffery~

>> Does anyone have a quck and simple way to resolve combat?
>>
>> ~Jeffery~
>
> Seems like another issue of Ares had some kind of group combat
> resolution system. I never used it myself, because it seemed clunky
> and possibly kludgy, but if you haven't already seen it, it might be
> worth looking up.
>
>
>
> To Post a message, send it to: dq-rules@eGroups.com
> To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: dq-rules-unsubscribe@eGroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

I have some mass combat rules if anyone is interested, wrote them a few years ago. Very quick to make up the 'units' descriptor and the combats run pretty quick from waht i recall.

---

To: dq-rules@yahoogroups.com
From: igmod@comcast.net
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 06:23:47 -0700
Subject: Re: [dq-rules] Re: A couple of things

My recollection of that is what had me digging through my old Ares. You are
right it is clunky and kludgy.

~Jeffery~

>> Does anyone have a quck and simple way to resolve combat?
>>
>> ~Jeffery~
>
> Seems like another issue of Ares had some kind of group combat
> resolution system. I never used it myself, because it seemed clunky
> and possibly kludgy, but if you haven't already seen it, it might be
> worth looking up.
>
>
>
> To Post a message, send it to: dq-rules@eGroups. com
> To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: dq-rules-unsubscrib e@eGroups. com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

---

The next generation of MSN Hotmail has arrived - Windows Live Hotmail

I am interested!
Could you send  those?

By the way, Do you take in account the presence of a military scientists in each group

Thanks!




--
"The life of a software architect is a long (and sometimes painful) succession of suboptimal decisions made partly in the dark." - Philippe Krutchen

-------------------------------------
<EPI/> - Deploying ideas
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What scale of "group combat" is it that you are looking at Jeffery?

For large scale military actions (hundreds of men in battle) I have
previously suggested that SPI's PRESTAGS (Pre-Seventeenth Century Tactical
Game System) series was ideally suited to become the DragonQuest mass
combat system. (Leadership is factored into the game, with a 1-10 scale
for leader ranking; so Military Scientists are virtually built in to the
system already.)

I think that smaller-scale group combat rules (football squad size actions
and encounters) could be an interesting set of additions to the rules, but
I've never had the time to develop anything like that. Treating three or
four soldiers who have trained together as a single unit (defending each
other, supporting each other, working in concert) could make for some very
challenging encounters. I knew of a campaign where the GM had some house
rules for dealing with a massed cavalry charge by the knights of the town
guard (very messy, if you were on the receiving end), but I don't know how
fully worked out that system was.

--Rodger

>> >> Does anyone have a quck and simple way to resolve combat?
>> >>
>> >> ~Jeffery~
>> >
>> > Seems like another issue of Ares had some kind of group combat
>> > resolution system. I never used it myself, because it seemed clunky
>> > and possibly kludgy, but if you haven't already seen it, it might be
>> > worth looking up.

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Rodger Thorm" <rthorm@cornellbox.com>

> What scale of "group combat" is it that you are looking at Jeffery?
>
> For large scale military actions (hundreds of men in battle) I have
> previously suggested that SPI's PRESTAGS (Pre-Seventeenth Century Tactical
> Game System) series was ideally suited to become the DragonQuest mass
> combat system. (Leadership is factored into the game, with a 1-10 scale
> for leader ranking; so Military Scientists are virtually built in to the
> system already.)
>
> I think that smaller-scale group combat rules (football squad size actions
> and encounters) could be an interesting set of additions to the rules, but
> I've never had the time to develop anything like that. Treating three or
> four soldiers who h ave trained together as a single unit (defending each
> other, supporting each other, working in concert) could make for some very
> challenging encounters. I knew of a campaign where the GM had some house
> rules for dealing with a massed cavalry charge by the knights of the town
> guard (very messy, if you were on the receiving end), but I don't know how
> fully worked out that system was.
>
> --Rodger
>
> >> >> Does anyone have a quck and simple way to resolve combat?
> >> >>
> >> >> ~Jeffery~
> >> >
> >> > Seems like another issue of Ares had some kind of group combat
> >> > resolution system. I never used it myself, because it seemed clunky
> >> > and possibly kludgy, but if you haven't already seen it, it might be
> >> > worth looking up.
>
>
>
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On the yahoo site under 'draft files' is DQ Mass Combat V1
 
It is an excel sheet consisting of 2 sheets
 
Sheet 1 (TROOPS) is where you work out the combat value of your troops.
you answer a few questions and place a mark in the relevant box
It takes into account Military scientist rank for leaders+time-trained+unit numbers, beast mastery helps mounted troops, as well as ranger and leaders perception etc
It also calculates the cost in sp to raise and wage the army
 
the second sheet (COMBAT) has a combat table (like the DQ one) and u need to roll a couple of d10 and take into account such things as how much you outnumber the enemy by, is it night and all troops have darkvision, all the units all undead, do they have breathe weapons and such.
 
Basically in a battle troops can
-move and melee
-move and skirmish
-not move and fire long range

eventually you will batter an enemy unit down to the point where they either 'break' or 'surrender'
 
Used it lots in a war part of my DragonNewt campaign but havent used it in a few years.
 
Please comment and ask away.
 
John

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-------------- Original message --------------
From: davis john <jrd123@hotmail.com>


On the yahoo site under 'draft files' is DQ Mass Combat V1
 
It is an excel sheet consisting of 2 sheets
 
Sheet 1 (TROOPS) is where you work out the combat value of your troops.
you answer a few questions and place a mark in the relevant box
It takes into account Military scientist rank for leaders+time-trained+unit numbers, beast mastery helps mounted troops, as well as ranger and leaders perception etc
It also calculates the cost in sp to raise and wage the army
 
the second sheet (COMBAT) has a combat table (like the DQ one) and u need to roll a couple of d10 and take into account such things as how much you outnumber the enemy by, is it night and all troops have darkvision, all the units all undead, do they have breathe weapons and such.
 
Basically in a battle troops can
-move and melee
-move and skirmish
-not move and fire long range

eventually you will batter an enemy unit down to the p oint where they either 'break' or 'surrender'
 
Used it lots in a war part of my DragonNewt campaign but havent used it in a few years.
 
Please comment and ask away.
 
John

---

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http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dq-rules/files/drafts/
 
Hi
 
its this group? if u look at the new activity tab in this email circular it says New Files 1. It is that!
 
John

---

To: dq-rules@yahoogroups.com
From: igmod@comcast.net
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 21:35:45 +0000
Subject: RE: [dq-rules] [DQ MASS COMBAT]

I tried looking for a dq-rules website and got nothing and it isn't on dqn-list.  Would you mind providing the address?

 

~Jeffery~

 

------------ -- Original message ------------ --
From: davis john <jrd123@hotmail. com>


On the yahoo site under 'draft files' is DQ Mass Combat V1
 
It is an excel sheet consisting of 2 sheets
 
Sheet 1 (TROOPS) is where you work out the combat value of your troops.
you answer a few questions and place a mark in the relevant box
It takes into account Military scientist rank for leaders+time- trained+unit numbers, beast mastery helps mounted troops, as well as ranger and leaders perception etc
It also calculates the cost in sp to raise and wage the army
 
the second sheet (COMBAT) has a combat table (like the DQ one) and u need to roll a couple of d10 and take into account such things as how much you outnumber the enemy by, is it night and all troops have darkvision, all the units all undead, do they have breathe weapons and such.
 
Basically in a battle troops can
-move and melee
-move and skirmish
-not move and fire long range

eventually you will batter an enemy unit down to the p oint where they either 'break' or 'surrender'
 
Used it lots in a war part of my DragonNewt campaign but havent used it in a few years.
 
Please comment and ask away.
 
John

---

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