Messages in DQ-RULES group. Page 24 of 40.

Group: DQ-RULES Message: 1158 From: Ran Hardin Date: 4/17/2007
Subject: Re: DragonQuest Review
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 1159 From: Ran Hardin Date: 4/17/2007
Subject: Re: DragonQuest Review
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 1160 From: Dean Martelle Date: 4/18/2007
Subject: Re: DragonQuest Review
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 1161 From: Dean Martelle Date: 4/18/2007
Subject: Re: DragonQuest Review
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 1162 From: Ran Hardin Date: 5/14/2007
Subject: Skill cost breakdowns?
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 1163 From: igmod@comcast.net Date: 5/14/2007
Subject: Re: Skill cost breakdowns?
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 1164 From: davis john Date: 5/15/2007
Subject: Re: Skill cost breakdowns?
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 1165 From: Ran Hardin Date: 5/15/2007
Subject: Re: Skill cost breakdowns?
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 1166 From: davis john Date: 5/16/2007
Subject: Re: Skill cost breakdowns?
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 1167 From: Ran Hardin Date: 5/18/2007
Subject: Re: Skill cost breakdowns?
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 1168 From: Ran Hardin Date: 5/18/2007
Subject: "DragonQuest Random Dungeon Kit?"
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 1169 From: shawn4186 Date: 5/18/2007
Subject: Re: "DragonQuest Random Dungeon Kit?"
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 1170 From: davis john Date: 5/18/2007
Subject: Re: Skill cost breakdowns?
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 1171 From: Ran Hardin Date: 5/25/2007
Subject: Re: Skill cost breakdowns?
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 1172 From: Ran Hardin Date: 9/17/2007
Subject: Humorous review of DQ magic
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 1173 From: Russell Harley Date: 9/17/2007
Subject: Re: Humorous review of DQ magic
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 1174 From: Lev Lafayette Date: 9/17/2007
Subject: Re: Humorous review of DQ magic
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 1175 From: Jeffery K. McGonagill Date: 9/17/2007
Subject: Re: Humorous review of DQ magic
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 1176 From: Chris C Date: 9/17/2007
Subject: Re: Humorous review of DQ magic
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 1177 From: Jeffery K. McGonagill Date: 9/18/2007
Subject: Re: Humorous review of DQ magic
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 1178 From: Ran Hardin Date: 9/18/2007
Subject: Re: Humorous review of DQ magic
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 1179 From: Ran Hardin Date: 9/18/2007
Subject: Re: Humorous review of DQ magic
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 1180 From: Ran Hardin Date: 9/18/2007
Subject: Re: Humorous review of DQ magic
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 1181 From: Ran Hardin Date: 9/18/2007
Subject: Part 2 - Humorous review of DQ Magic
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 1182 From: igmod@comcast.net Date: 9/18/2007
Subject: Re: Humorous review of DQ magic
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 1183 From: Lev Lafayette Date: 9/18/2007
Subject: Re: Part 2 - Humorous review of DQ Magic
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 1184 From: Mandos Mitchinson Date: 9/18/2007
Subject: Re: Part 2 - Humorous review of DQ Magic
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 1185 From: Jeffery K. McGonagill Date: 9/18/2007
Subject: Re: Part 2 - Humorous review of DQ Magic
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 1186 From: Jeffery K. McGonagill Date: 9/18/2007
Subject: Re: Part 2 - Humorous review of DQ Magic
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 1187 From: Ran Hardin Date: 9/19/2007
Subject: Re: Part 2 - Humorous review of DQ Magic
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 1188 From: Ran Hardin Date: 9/19/2007
Subject: Re: Part 2 - Humorous review of DQ Magic
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 1189 From: Ran Hardin Date: 9/19/2007
Subject: Part 3 - Humorous Review of DQ Magic
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 1190 From: igmod@comcast.net Date: 9/19/2007
Subject: Re: Part 2 - Humorous review of DQ Magic
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 1191 From: Martin Gallo Date: 9/19/2007
Subject: Re: Part 3 - Humorous Review of DQ Magic
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 1192 From: Ran Hardin Date: 9/20/2007
Subject: Re: Part 2 - Humorous review of DQ Magic
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 1193 From: Rodger Thorm Date: 9/20/2007
Subject: Re: Part 2 - Humorous review of DQ Magic
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 1194 From: Ran Hardin Date: 9/20/2007
Subject: Re: Part 3 - Humorous Review of DQ Magic
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 1195 From: WAKEFIELD Leigh Date: 9/20/2007
Subject: Re: Part 3 - Humorous Review of DQ Magic
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 1196 From: Jason Winter Date: 9/20/2007
Subject: Re: Part 2 - Humorous review of DQ Magic
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 1197 From: Chris C Date: 9/21/2007
Subject: Poison RULES
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 1198 From: Ran Hardin Date: 9/21/2007
Subject: Re: Poison RULES
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 1199 From: Mandos Mitchinson Date: 9/21/2007
Subject: Re: Poison RULES
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 1200 From: Martin Gallo Date: 9/22/2007
Subject: Re: Poison RULES
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 1201 From: Ran Hardin Date: 9/24/2007
Subject: Part 4 - Humorous review of DQ magic
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 1202 From: dennisnordling Date: 9/24/2007
Subject: Re: Humorous review of DQ magic (Spell of Walking Unseen)
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 1203 From: Mandos Mitchinson Date: 9/24/2007
Subject: Re: Humorous review of DQ magic (Spell of Walking Unseen)
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 1204 From: dennisnordling Date: 9/25/2007
Subject: Re: Humorous review of DQ magic (Spell of Walking Unseen)
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 1205 From: Ran Hardin Date: 9/26/2007
Subject: Part 5 - Humorous review of DQ magic
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 1206 From: Mornak Date: 9/26/2007
Subject: Re: Part 5 - Humorous review of DQ magic
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 1207 From: Jeffery K. McGonagill Date: 9/26/2007
Subject: Re: Part 5 - Humorous review of DQ magic



Group: DQ-RULES Message: 1158 From: Ran Hardin Date: 4/17/2007
Subject: Re: DragonQuest Review

I have a similar set-up.  I disbanded Greater Summonings as a college.  If an adept is lucky (or unlucky, depending on your viewpoint), he might come across an old, crumbling book or parchment with a summoning ritual on it.

My world isn't sophisticated enough to have some sort of registering/monitoring system for Black Mages, but black magic is definitely frowned upon to say the least (along with necromancy and shadow magic), and these types of adepts have to be shrewd about their use of spells in public.

 

 

--- In dq-rules@yahoogroups.com, "Jeffery K. McGonagill" <igmod@...> wrote:
>
> In my campaign, Greater Summoning is illegal and Black Magics practioners
> are registered and monitored.
>
> ~Jeffery~
>
>
> > This is a system that I used for DQ. You could learn
> > the general knowledge of another college but you
> > treated it like special knowledge for casting. The
> > problem was getting the mage of the other college to
> > teach you the spell. It usually involved trading
> > spells. There were also other restrictions. One of
> > which was that in all of my DQ games it was illegal to
> > be a Black Magician and casting Black magic spells
> > attracted a lot of bad attention. The other is that
> > some colleges just would not deal with members of
> > others. Fire and Water for example. Enchantment and
> > Entity mages did not get along well either. I did not
> > find this rule unbalancing or overpowering in play.
> > --Dean
> >
> > --- Ran Hardin dantalion64@... wrote:
> >
> >> --- In dq-rules@yahoogroups.com, Lev Lafayette
> >> lev_lafayette@
> >> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > The Deryni have a number of innate psychic
> >> abilities
> >> > which are later fine-tuned as they get holder
> >> (i.e.,
> >> > the power is determined by birth, the ability by
> >> > training)
> >>
> >> Sounds like general knowledge vs. special knowledge
> >> spells.
> >>
> >> >
> >> > However, powerful Deryni also master a variety of
> >> > spells on elemental manipulation, illusions,
> >> summoning
> >> > etc.
> >>
> >> I admit I'm relying largely on my memory of the
> >> first three books,
> >> where the abilities seemed fairly homogeneous. The
> >> "evil" Deryni
> >> could almost be considered to be of another college.
> >>
> >> Here's an idea for a more structured house rule for
> >> a player who
> >> wants to acquire spells outside his college:
> >>
> >> An adept is still primarily "dedicated" to one
> >> college-that is, he
> >> learns all the general knowledge spells for that
> >> college, and is
> >> still considered a fire mage or a dark mage, etc.
> >> He is then
> >> allowed a certain number of spells from the general
> >> knowledge sets
> >> of other colleges. I would likely prevent
> >> "cross-college" adepts
> >> from learning the special knowledge of other
> >> colleges, leaving those
> >> for the Truly Dedicated adepts. That way, players
> >> who crave some
> >> extra-college abilities for their characters can
> >> pick up the odd
> >> spell or two, but they'll never have the advanced
> >> level of
> >> understanding of that college's magic as a true
> >> adept of that
> >> college would.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > ____________________________________________________________________________________
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> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

Group: DQ-RULES Message: 1159 From: Ran Hardin Date: 4/17/2007
Subject: Re: DragonQuest Review
Fun links. Thanks for posting them.

Ran

--- In dq-rules@yahoogroups.com, Steven Wiles <mortdemuerte@...>
wrote:
>
> Without looking at the designer's notes in the ArcWis
> for confirmation, yes, it is. When Dean says that the
> designers got their hands on a book of Demonology, it
> was almost certainly either a copy of or a treatise
> about the Lesser Key of Solomon, and possibly also the
> Greater Key. They're both fascinating reading, and
> clear influences on the description of Greater
> Summoning in DQ.
>
> Here's a translation of the Greater Key done back in
> the 19th century:
>
> http://www.esotericarchives.com/solomon/ksol.htm
>
> And here's one of the Lesser Key:
>
> http://www.sacred-texts.com/grim/lks/index.htm
>
> Check out the "Classified List of the 72 Chief Spirits
> " on this one... :>
>
> Mort
>
> --- Ran Hardin <dantalion64@...> wrote:
>
> > I wonder if Greater Summmoning wasn't based on The
> > Keys of Solomon.
> > There are some differences between the descriptions
> > there and what's
> > in DQ, but overall it's a pretty close match.
> >
> >
> > --- In dq-rules@yahoogroups.com, Dean Martelle
> > <gallants2@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi,
> > > You are dead on the money. Deryni and Earthsea
> > were
> > > both mentioned by the designers as inspriations
> > for
> > > Sorcereries of Mind and Naming Incnatations
> > > respectively. In addition the Celestials came out
> > of
> > > Thieves World (and got put back in later). Greater
> > > Summoning came from a book on Demonology that Jim
> > > Dunnigan found at an occult bookstore in NYC. Most
> > of
> > > the others are from traditional sources. The only
> > > college that was made up whole cloth was Illusion.
> >
> > > --Dean M.
> > > --- Ran Hardin <dantalion64@> wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Hmm... I posted a reply to this, but it didn't
> > > > "take."
> > > > Apologies if it shows up some day.
> > > >
> > > > --- In dq-rules@yahoogroups.com
> > > > <mailto:dq-rules@yahoogroups.com> , Lev
> > > > Lafayette <lev_lafayette@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > We discussed this previously in the thread
> > iirc.
> > > > > Restrictive colleges also don't appear in
> > fantasy
> > > > > literature either.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I disagree, although I'll have to go through my
> > > > library for examples
> > > > to back up my opinion. Off the top of my head,
> > I'd
> > > > say one example
> > > > would be the Deryni: they're pretty clearly
> > adepts
> > > > of the College of
> > > > Sorceries of the Mind (so much so that I'd be
> > > > surprised if that
> > > > wasn't one source of inspiration for the
> > college).
> > > > Has anyone read
> > > > A Wizard of Earthsea lately? (Another obvious
> > source
> > > > for DQ magic.)
> > > > Seems like those colleges were restrictive as
> > well.
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
_____________________________________________________________________
> > _______________
> > > Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000
> > hotels
> > > in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find
> > your fit.
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> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > To Post a message, send it to:
> > dq-rules@...
> > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
> > dq-rules-unsubscribe@...
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
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Group: DQ-RULES Message: 1160 From: Dean Martelle Date: 4/18/2007
Subject: Re: DragonQuest Review
Another direct hit. The book in question was an
English translation of the Lesser Keys. I don't know
the exact title, I didn't try to wheedle it out of Jim
Dunnigan, Eric Goldberg or Greg Costikyan. Which
brings up another interesting point. PC Greater
Summoners. I had one and it was a lot of fun. Just
make it very clear that the character is legally
responsible for anything the Demon does. If your
Succubus seduces the son of local noble rape charges
will be made against the character. This also spawned
two of my best RPG stories. The "leather succubus" and
"I'll release you if you kill everybody on the other
side of that wall."
--- Ran Hardin <dantalion64@excite.com> wrote:

> I wonder if Greater Summmoning wasn't based on The
> Keys of Solomon.
> There are some differences between the descriptions
> there and what's
> in DQ, but overall it's a pretty close match.
>
>
> --- In dq-rules@yahoogroups.com, Dean Martelle
> <gallants2@...> wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> > You are dead on the money. Deryni and Earthsea
> were
> > both mentioned by the designers as inspriations
> for
> > Sorcereries of Mind and Naming Incnatations
> > respectively. In addition the Celestials came out
> of
> > Thieves World (and got put back in later). Greater
> > Summoning came from a book on Demonology that Jim
> > Dunnigan found at an occult bookstore in NYC. Most
> of
> > the others are from traditional sources. The only
> > college that was made up whole cloth was Illusion.
>
> > --Dean M.
> > --- Ran Hardin <dantalion64@...> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Hmm... I posted a reply to this, but it didn't
> > > "take."
> > > Apologies if it shows up some day.
> > >
> > > --- In dq-rules@yahoogroups.com
> > > <mailto:dq-rules@yahoogroups.com> , Lev
> > > Lafayette <lev_lafayette@> wrote:
> > >
> > > > We discussed this previously in the thread
> iirc.
> > > > Restrictive colleges also don't appear in
> fantasy
> > > > literature either.
> > >
> > >
> > > I disagree, although I'll have to go through my
> > > library for examples
> > > to back up my opinion. Off the top of my head,
> I'd
> > > say one example
> > > would be the Deryni: they're pretty clearly
> adepts
> > > of the College of
> > > Sorceries of the Mind (so much so that I'd be
> > > surprised if that
> > > wasn't one source of inspiration for the
> college).
> > > Has anyone read
> > > A Wizard of Earthsea lately? (Another obvious
> source
> > > for DQ magic.)
> > > Seems like those colleges were restrictive as
> well.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
_____________________________________________________________________
> _______________
> > Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000
> hotels
> > in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find
> your fit.
> > http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097
> >
>
>
>

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Group: DQ-RULES Message: 1161 From: Dean Martelle Date: 4/18/2007
Subject: Re: DragonQuest Review
SPI also made another game called Demons based on the
same book. Good fun to play.
--- Rodger Thorm <rthorm@cornellbox.com> wrote:

> Seems to me the 'Lesser Key of Solomon' is mentioned
> about Summoners,
> either in the notes to Arcane Wisdom or in the
> writeup of Greater
> Summoners proper.
>
> Rodger
>
> > I wonder if Greater Summmoning wasn't based on The
> Keys of Solomon.
> > There are some differences between the
> descriptions there and what's
> > in DQ, but overall it's a pretty close match.
> >
> >
> > --- In dq-rules@yahoogroups.com, Dean Martelle
> <gallants2@...> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi,
> >> You are dead on the money. Deryni and Earthsea
> were
> >> both mentioned by the designers as inspriations
> for
> >> Sorcereries of Mind and Naming Incnatations
> >> respectively. In addition the Celestials came out
> of
> >> Thieves World (and got put back in later).
> Greater
> >> Summoning came from a book on Demonology that Jim
> >> Dunnigan found at an occult bookstore in NYC.
> Most of
> >> the others are from traditional sources. The
> only
> >> college that was made up whole cloth was
> Illusion.
> >> --Dean M.
> >> --- Ran Hardin <dantalion64@...> wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >> > Hmm... I posted a reply to this, but it didn't
> >> > "take."
> >> > Apologies if it shows up some day.
> >> >
> >> > --- In dq-rules@yahoogroups.com
> >> > <mailto:dq-rules@yahoogroups.com> , Lev
> >> > Lafayette <lev_lafayette@> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > We discussed this previously in the thread
> iirc.
> >> > > Restrictive colleges also don't appear in
> fantasy
> >> > > literature either.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > I disagree, although I'll have to go through my
> >> > library for examples
> >> > to back up my opinion. Off the top of my head,
> I'd
> >> > say one example
> >> > would be the Deryni: they're pretty clearly
> adepts
> >> > of the College of
> >> > Sorceries of the Mind (so much so that I'd be
> >> > surprised if that
> >> > wasn't one source of inspiration for the
> college).
> >> > Has anyone read
> >> > A Wizard of Earthsea lately? (Another obvious
> source
> >> > for DQ magic.)
> >> > Seems like those colleges were restrictive as
> well.
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
>
_____________________________________________________________________
> > _______________
> >> Now that's room service! Choose from over
> 150,000 hotels
> >> in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find
> your fit.
> >> http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > To Post a message, send it to:
> dq-rules@eGroups.com
> > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
> dq-rules-unsubscribe@eGroups.com
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>


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Group: DQ-RULES Message: 1162 From: Ran Hardin Date: 5/14/2007
Subject: Skill cost breakdowns?
A long time ago I started a spreadsheet that broke down the yearly
costs of maintaining the various skills into monthly and weekly costs
by rank. The intent was to add the weekly costs to the character's
weekly upkeep, rolling all the maintenance costs into one figure the
player could pay for the week; optionally, players could have their
characters pay a monthly maintenance fee. I never completed it,
though.

Has anyone done something like this? If not, would there be any
interest in a completed version?
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 1163 From: igmod@comcast.net Date: 5/14/2007
Subject: Re: Skill cost breakdowns?
I have, though where I put it is another questions.
 
~Jeffery~
 
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Ran Hardin" <dantalion64@excite.com>

> A long time ago I started a spreadsheet that broke down the yearly
> costs of maintaining the various skills into monthly and weekly costs
> by rank. The intent was to add the weekly costs to the character's
> weekly upkeep, rolling all the maintenance costs into one figure the
> player could pay for the week; optionally, players could have their
> characters pay a monthly maintenance fee. I never completed it,
> though.
>
> Has anyone done something like this? If not, would there be any
> interest in a completed version?
>
>
>
>
> To Post a message, send it to: dq-rules@eGroups.com
> To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: dq-rules-unsubscribe@eGroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
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Group: DQ-RULES Message: 1164 From: davis john Date: 5/15/2007
Subject: Re: Skill cost breakdowns?
there is an excel spreadsheet on the forum that has the cost on each skill
page. I use this and have converted to monthly costs.

>From: igmod@comcast.net
>Reply-To: dq-rules@yahoogroups.com
>To: dq-rules@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [dq-rules] Skill cost breakdowns?
>Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 21:06:46 +0000
>
>I have, though where I put it is another questions.
>
>~Jeffery~
>
>-------------- Original message --------------
>From: "Ran Hardin" <dantalion64@excite.com>
>
> > A long time ago I started a spreadsheet that broke down the yearly
> > costs of maintaining the various skills into monthly and weekly costs
> > by rank. The intent was to add the weekly costs to the character's
> > weekly upkeep, rolling all the maintenance costs into one figure the
> > player could pay for the week; optionally, players could have their
> > characters pay a monthly maintenance fee. I never completed it,
> > though.
> >
> > Has anyone done something like this? If not, would there be any
> > interest in a completed version?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > To Post a message, send it to: dq-rules@eGroups.com
> > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
>dq-rules-unsubscribe@eGroups.com
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >

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Group: DQ-RULES Message: 1165 From: Ran Hardin Date: 5/15/2007
Subject: Re: Skill cost breakdowns?
I gues I'm being thick-headed... "on the forum" means where?


--- In dq-rules@yahoogroups.com, "davis john" <jrd123@...> wrote:
>
>
> there is an excel spreadsheet on the forum that has the cost on
each skill
> page. I use this and have converted to monthly costs.
>
> >From: igmod@...
> >Reply-To: dq-rules@yahoogroups.com
> >To: dq-rules@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: Re: [dq-rules] Skill cost breakdowns?
> >Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 21:06:46 +0000
> >
> >I have, though where I put it is another questions.
> >
> >~Jeffery~
> >
> >-------------- Original message --------------
> >From: "Ran Hardin" <dantalion64@...>
> >
> > > A long time ago I started a spreadsheet that broke down the
yearly
> > > costs of maintaining the various skills into monthly and
weekly costs
> > > by rank. The intent was to add the weekly costs to the
character's
> > > weekly upkeep, rolling all the maintenance costs into one
figure the
> > > player could pay for the week; optionally, players could have
their
> > > characters pay a monthly maintenance fee. I never completed it,
> > > though.
> > >
> > > Has anyone done something like this? If not, would there be any
> > > interest in a completed version?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > To Post a message, send it to: dq-rules@...
> > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
> >dq-rules-unsubscribe@...
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Could you be the guest MSN Movies presenter? Click Here to
Audition
> http://www.lightscameraaudition.co.uk
>
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 1166 From: davis john Date: 5/16/2007
Subject: Re: Skill cost breakdowns?
its me notbeing clear


either on the yahoo website for 'dqn rules' or 'dqn list' there is an excel
file stored

can access it from work so not sure which one

john

>
>I gues I'm being thick-headed... "on the forum" means where?
>
>

_________________________________________________________________
Txt a lot? Get Messenger FREE on your mobile.
https://livemessenger.mobile.uk.msn.com/
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 1167 From: Ran Hardin Date: 5/18/2007
Subject: Re: Skill cost breakdowns?
I couldn't find it in either group, unless it's a part of a larger
file.

Can anyone else think of where it might be?


--- In dq-rules@yahoogroups.com, "davis john" <jrd123@...> wrote:
>
> its me notbeing clear
>
>
> either on the yahoo website for 'dqn rules' or 'dqn list' there is
an excel
> file stored
>
> can access it from work so not sure which one
>
> john
>
> >
> >I gues I'm being thick-headed... "on the forum" means where?
> >
> >
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Txt a lot? Get Messenger FREE on your mobile.
> https://livemessenger.mobile.uk.msn.com/
>
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 1168 From: Ran Hardin Date: 5/18/2007
Subject: "DragonQuest Random Dungeon Kit?"
(Sorry if this has been brought up before... but I searched the
messages and didn't find a reference to it.)

I was reading through the old Ares magazine Dragon Notes (purely for
nostalgia's sake), and I ran across a reference to something called
the "DragonQuest Random Dungeon Kit." This item was mentioned as
being in the SPI Art Department along with Frontiers of Alusia and
Arcane Wisdom. Obviously, Alusia and Arcane Wisdom has survived to
see the light of day... did anything from the Random Dungeon Kit
survive?
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 1169 From: shawn4186 Date: 5/18/2007
Subject: Re: "DragonQuest Random Dungeon Kit?"
If I remember correctly, they were going to use rules similar to
Death Maze to create the dungeons. Death Maze and Citadel of Blood
can still be found on the internet. Death Maze was a capsule game and
Citadel of Blood is in Ares # 5 Nov 1980. Its is very easy to use
these as a starting point for creating random dungeons and add DQ
rule as you like.

--- In dq-rules@yahoogroups.com, "Ran Hardin" <dantalion64@...> wrote:
>
> (Sorry if this has been brought up before... but I searched the
> messages and didn't find a reference to it.)
>
> I was reading through the old Ares magazine Dragon Notes (purely
for
> nostalgia's sake), and I ran across a reference to something called
> the "DragonQuest Random Dungeon Kit." This item was mentioned as
> being in the SPI Art Department along with Frontiers of Alusia and
> Arcane Wisdom. Obviously, Alusia and Arcane Wisdom has survived to
> see the light of day... did anything from the Random Dungeon Kit
> survive?
>
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 1170 From: davis john Date: 5/18/2007
Subject: Re: Skill cost breakdowns?
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/dqn-list/files/
This is what i meant
Unfortunately this isnt the one where i have broken down skill upkeep to
monthly, though it is on by year

i have actually made an excel sheet for each spell college as well

this contains enchantments ass the second sheet


>From: "Ran Hardin" <dantalion64@excite.com>
>Reply-To: dq-rules@yahoogroups.com
>To: dq-rules@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [dq-rules] Re: Skill cost breakdowns?
>Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 14:01:40 -0000
>
>I couldn't find it in either group, unless it's a part of a larger
>file.
>
>Can anyone else think of where it might be?
>
>
>--- In dq-rules@yahoogroups.com, "davis john" <jrd123@...> wrote:
> >
> > its me notbeing clear
> >
> >
> > either on the yahoo website for 'dqn rules' or 'dqn list' there is
>an excel
> > file stored
> >
> > can access it from work so not sure which one
> >
> > john
> >
> > >
> > >I gues I'm being thick-headed... "on the forum" means where?
> > >
> > >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Txt a lot? Get Messenger FREE on your mobile.
> > https://livemessenger.mobile.uk.msn.com/
> >
>
>

_________________________________________________________________
Could you be the guest MSN Movies presenter? Click Here to Audition
http://www.lightscameraaudition.co.uk
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 1171 From: Ran Hardin Date: 5/25/2007
Subject: Re: Skill cost breakdowns?
Sorry to be so consistently thick, but I'd already looked through
everything in the "List" group's files, and didn't see anything. I
looked again, and still no luck. What's the name of the file it's
in?

Thanks once again,
Ran

--- In dq-rules@yahoogroups.com, "davis john" <jrd123@...> wrote:
>
> http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/dqn-list/files/
> This is what i meant
> Unfortunately this isnt the one where i have broken down skill
upkeep to
> monthly, though it is on by year
>
> i have actually made an excel sheet for each spell college as well
>
> this contains enchantments ass the second sheet
>
>
> >From: "Ran Hardin" <dantalion64@...>
> >Reply-To: dq-rules@yahoogroups.com
> >To: dq-rules@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: [dq-rules] Re: Skill cost breakdowns?
> >Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 14:01:40 -0000
> >
> >I couldn't find it in either group, unless it's a part of a larger
> >file.
> >
> >Can anyone else think of where it might be?
> >
> >
> >--- In dq-rules@yahoogroups.com, "davis john" <jrd123@> wrote:
> > >
> > > its me notbeing clear
> > >
> > >
> > > either on the yahoo website for 'dqn rules' or 'dqn list'
there is
> >an excel
> > > file stored
> > >
> > > can access it from work so not sure which one
> > >
> > > john
> > >
> > > >
> > > >I gues I'm being thick-headed... "on the forum" means where?
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
_________________________________________________________________
> > > Txt a lot? Get Messenger FREE on your mobile.
> > > https://livemessenger.mobile.uk.msn.com/
> > >
> >
> >
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Could you be the guest MSN Movies presenter? Click Here to
Audition
> http://www.lightscameraaudition.co.uk
>
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 1172 From: Ran Hardin Date: 9/17/2007
Subject: Humorous review of DQ magic

Awhile back, I was catching up with an old, old friend who was part of our gaming group that played countless hours of DQ.  We got to talking about the various spells in the game, and to what uses some of the more pedestrian spells could be put to.  It was an enjoyable conversation, and it got me thinking about the DQ magic system.  So, I sat down and read over the spells in some detail, and started taking some notes in reference to my long-dormant adventure setting, and re-familiarize myself with the magic system.  This eventually morphed into a glib commentary on DQ magic written largely for my own amusement.  There's a bit of serious commentary and occasional commentary on interesting uses for the spells amidst the japery -- just don't take it too seriously, or personally.  The digs at the system are fond ones born out of a long-standing love of the game, and the power-gamer stuff is written for laughs.

I recently dug this up, and decided to post it -- this group has been dormant for months, so what the hell, right?  I'll post the first section, to see if there is actually any entertainment value and/or bases for more serious discussion.  If there is, I'll post more in the coming days.

And if there's nothing but chirping crickets, I'll know to stop  :)


We'll start with Rule 52: The College of Ensorcelments and Enchantments.

It's clear that this college is a gesture to the 99.9% of DQ players who had played D&D.  If you really didn't like the rigid classification of the DQ magic system, you could still sort of play a D&D "magic-user" (and isn't "adept" a far more elegant term?).

NOTE:  I have a special section with some spells called "Demonic Fun."  Since demons do everything at Rank 20, their magic abilities are particularly potent, sometimes humorously (and gruesomely) so.  This section explores the many reasons why, when you encounter a demon, you should be very, very polite.

T-1 . Witchsight
A useful talent, this.  You can see invisible things.  Oddly, this also includes people who have Walking Unseen cast over them, which is specifically defined later on the same page as not being invisible.  Eh – close enough for gubmint work, I guess.

G-1. (Charm Person) Spell of Charming
Here we go with the Spells of Reference.  Would it really mess up the page layouts so badly they couldn't just reprint the text of the spell each time it occurs?  Anyway, this spell can be a royal pain for a GM, especially if the player gets a few ranks under his belt so he can cast it from a considerable distance.  However, a wily GM will keep track of exactly who the character has charmed (and likely abused in one way or another), making return visits to any particular locale interesting…

G-2. Spell of Telekinesis
Again with the references...  A good spell for swiping things, catching mice, or messing up precise alignments of magical paraphernalia.

DEMONIC FUN: A demon can lift up to 102 pounds, or move a 2-pound object at up to 41 MPH.  Anyone care to approximate the damage you get from taking a 41 MPH brick to the face?

G-3. (Sleep) Spell of Enchanted Sleep
Yer standard RPG sleep spell. The Rank 10+ version is great anesthesia for surgery.

G-4. Spell of Walking Unseen
I'm quite sure there have been at least 57,000 discussions between DQ players over the years as to what the difference is between being magically Unseen and magically Invisible.  I still don't know.  If you're Invisible, then you can't be seen; if you're Walking Unseen, you just won't be seen.  The end result is that you aren't seen.  Why have separate spells?  It seems that all detection spells and talents that can detect one can detect the other. 

G-5. Spell of Speaking to Enchanted Creatures
Quite the versatile spell, as you can speak to any kind of magical creature.  I once had an industrious (in other words, "full of crap") player try to convince me he should be able to write a Manticore translation book while under the effects of the spell.  He wound up with a book full of entries like this:

Road = growwwllllyarrrwwll
Friend = Yargalgrowwll
Peace = Groyarwwlllgrwwwl

G-6. (Locate Object) Spell of Location
Someone was being a cheeky little monkey here.  C'mon – a "large glowing arrow?"  Unless you're hunting for something in the middle of nowhere, this spell is more trouble than it's worth.  Think about it: you're lolling around, hoisting a pint at your favorite tavern, and you see a couple of guys walk by following a large, glowing arrow.  Wouldn't you get up and follow them?  I house-ruled that the higher the Adept's rank with the spell, the smaller the arrow became, and at rank 5 it was small enough to "hide" in the palm of the Adept's hand.

The wording of the spell is open to interpretation.  "The Adept may determine the direction in which he will find any person or object…" does this mean the arrow points directly in the direction of the object relative to the caster's position?  Or the direction the caster must go to "find" the object?"  In other words, does the arrow lead you through the maze, or merely point straight at the object?

G-7. Spell of Mass Charming
All I can say is that your last command had better be "ride as fast and far away from me as possible."  Most people just don't like being controlled like that.

G-8.  Spell of Invisibility
Now, should I cast Invisibility, or Walking Unseen…?  I suppose that technically, merely touching someone else does not break the Spell of Invisibility, since the description specifies an attack.  If that's the only difference, then why would you ever cast Walking Unseen instead of Invisibility?  I guess Walking Unseen has a much lower experience multiple, but still…

G-9. Evil Eye Spell
The best thing about this spell is the duration.  At higher ranks, you can really mess up someone's vacation.

DEMONIC FUN: A demon casting this spell reduces the target's magic resistance and strike chance by 20, and the spell lasts for three weeks!

Q-1. Ritual of Enchantment
Quite the handy little ritual (don't leave home without it).  Hint: if you are a Merchant who specializes in spices or magical paraphenalia, you can get a discount on the myrrh needed for this ritual.  Seriously, even at low ranks, the effects of this ritual can be the difference between a failed spell and a back-breaking backfire.  It has a very high BC and a low Experience Multiple (XM), and should be a mainstay in the E&E Adept's routine.

Q-2. Ritual of Creating Crystal of Vision
My E&E Adept had a projection-TV-size crystal for this ritual.  So useful for spying on enemies.  Merchant discount here? 1,000 SP is a bit stiff for 15 minutes worth of C-SPAN…

Q-3. Ritual of Creating Sleep Dust
Who knows a ritual that costs way more than the end result is worth?  I do!  Seriously… if I got up to Rank-freakin'-10 with this ritual it would still cost me 5,000 SP to make one dose of sleep dust?  Five thousand SP?  Let's see what else 5,000 SP will get you:

  • Two fully-stocked, brand-new alchemist's labs
  • 10,000 arrows
  • 50 Two-handed swords
  • 20,000 sacks of grain
  • 34 evenings with a Rank 10 Courtesan, including gratuity
  • 10,000 pairs of mittens
  • Five warhorses
  • 25 suits of mail
  • 1 Upper deck obstructed view seat at Stones concert

My house rule: knock a zero off all the relevant numbers.  It's still expensive.

Q-4. Ritual of Creating Poison Dust
See above.  Cheaper to hire an alchemist, and the damage is paltry.  What's the point?

S-1. Ventriloquism Spell
A very useful spell, good for all kinds of subterfuge and misdirection (not to mention a killer "talking while drinking the glass of water" routine).  Note from past experience: religious NPCs tend to get really ticked off when you use this spell to mimic the voice of their god, and order them to do stuff for you.

S-2. (Magic Missile) Bolt of Energy Spell
Damage is good.  Damage is your friend.  High BC, low XM, damage not absorbed by normal armor.  Sweet.

S-3. (Knock Spell) Spell of Opening
Another useful spell, sure to cheese off the thief or spy in your party. ("You're stepping on my niche, man!")  I house-ruled that you can't undo a Mage Lock of a rank higher than the Adept's rank with this spell.

S-4. Spell of Enchanting Weapon
More handy stuff.

DEMONIC FUN: A demon casting this spell on a two-handed sword gets you a weapon with a starting BC of 75 doing D+14 damage.  The enchantment lasts for a minimum of 6 minutes and 40 seconds (or 80 pulses).

S-5. Web of Entanglement Spell
It's a bummer this spell has a duration of concentration, but besides that it's great fun at parties, especially ones you're in a hurry to leave. 

S-6. (Hold Portal) Mage Lock Spell
This spell tends to discourage pursuit.  It's also useful for overriding the trigger mechanism for a trap door.

S-7. Spell of Enhancing Enchantment
I never saw much use for this spell before.  However, since you can affect damage with it, it seems quite handy to throw this on top of S-4.

DEMONIC FUN: When combined with S-4, the two-handed sword previously enchanted could do +34 damage for 22 pulses.  Bring on the dragons, baby.

S-8. Spell of Levitation
Opinions wanted: is the levitated person considered to be weightless?  In other words, can you drag him along like a Macy's parade float, and can he be torn from your grasp by a gust of wind?

S-9. Spell of Enchanting Armor
I guess I don't understand why this can only be cast upon armor.  What's the difference between a quilted gambeson and a nice angora sweater?  (I know, I know, it's the symbio-empathic nature of sorcerous magic, blah blah meow meow…)

S-10. Wizard's Eye Spell
Does anyone else find this funny?  "The eye[…] operates as would any normal eye except that it is not attached to the Adept physically."  Yes, except for that one minor detail, it operates just like a normal eye.  Does this mean that if you poke it or blow dust at it, it can't see for awhile?

S-11.  Spell of Slowness
Fun to cast on someone who's got a ritual timed to conclude at midnight on a portentous day.  How big a thing can you cast this spell on?  An ogre?  A dragon?  The Worm Ouroboros?  Maybe there should be some kind of size/Rank breakdown: Rank 0-4, human-sized or smaller; rank 5-10, up to 3-hex monster, etc.

S-12 Spell of Quickness
Most fun when cast on your friends directly after you've hit your enemies with a Spell of Slowness.

Group: DQ-RULES Message: 1173 From: Russell Harley Date: 9/17/2007
Subject: Re: Humorous review of DQ magic

I thought it was great. Please post more.

 

Russ

 

 

From: dq-rules@yahoogroups.com [mailto:dq-rules@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ran Hardin
Sent: Monday, September 17, 2007 2:22 PM
To: dq-rules@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [dq-rules] Humorous review of DQ magic

 

Awhile back, I was catching up with an old, old friend who was part of our gaming group that played countless hours of DQ.  We got to talking about the various spells in the game, and to what uses some of the more pedestrian spells could be put to.  It was an enjoyable conversation, and it got me thinking about the DQ magic system.  So, I sat down and read over the spells in some detail, and started taking some notes in reference to my long-dormant adventure setting, and re-familiarize myself with the magic system.  This eventually morphed into a glib commentary on DQ magic written largely for my own amusement.  There's a bit of serious commentary and occasional commentary on interesting uses for the spells amidst the japery -- just don't take it too seriously, or personally.  The digs at the system are fond ones born out of a long-standing love of the game, and the power-gamer stuff is written for laughs.

I recently dug this up, and decided to post it -- this group has been dormant for months, so what the hell, right?  I'll post the first section, to see if there is actually any entertainment value and/or bases for more serious discussion.  If there is, I'll post more in the coming days.

And if there's nothing but chirping crickets, I'll know to stop  :)


We'll start with Rule 52: The College of Ensorcelments and Enchantments.

It's clear that this college is a gesture to the 99.9% of DQ players who had played D&D.  If you really didn't like the rigid classification of the DQ magic system, you could still sort of play a D&D "magic-user" (and isn't "adept" a far more elegant term?).

NOTE:  I have a special section with some spells called "Demonic Fun."  Since demons do everything at Rank 20, their magic abilities are particularly potent, sometimes humorously (and gruesomely) so.  This section explores the many reasons why, when you encounter a demon, you should be very, very polite.

T-1 . Witchsight
A useful talent, this.  You can see invisible things.  Oddly, this also includes people who have Walking Unseen cast over them, which is specifically defined later on the same page as not being invisible.  Eh – close enough for gubmint work, I guess.

G-1. (Charm Person) Spell of Charming
Here we go with the Spells of Reference.  Would it really mess up the page layouts so badly they couldn't just reprint the text of the spell each time it occurs?  Anyway, this spell can be a royal pain for a GM, especially if the player gets a few ranks under his belt so he can cast it from a considerable distance.  However, a wily GM will keep track of exactly who the character has charmed (and likely abused in one way or another), making return visits to any particular locale interesting…

G-2. Spell of Telekinesis
Again with the references...  A good spell for swiping things, catching mice, or messing up precise alignments of magical paraphernalia.

DEMONIC FUN: A demon can lift up to 102 pounds, or move a 2-pound object at up to 41 MPH.  Anyone care to approximate the damage you get from taking a 41 MPH brick to the face?

G-3. (Sleep) Spell of Enchanted Sleep
Yer standard RPG sleep spell. The Rank 10+ version is great anesthesia for surgery.

G-4. Spell of Walking Unseen
I'm quite sure there have been at least 57,000 discussions between DQ players over the years as to what the difference is between being magically Unseen and magically Invisible.  I still don't know.  If you're Invisible, then you can't be seen; if you're Walking Unseen, you just won't be seen.  The end result is that you aren't seen.  Why have separate spells?  It seems that all detection spells and talents that can detect one can detect the other. 

G-5. Spell of Speaking to Enchanted Creatures
Quite the versatile spell, as you can speak to any kind of magical creature.  I once had an industrious (in other words, "full of crap") player try to convince me he should be able to write a Manticore translation book while under the effects of the spell.  He wound up with a book full of entries like this:

Road = growwwllllyarrrwwll
Friend = Yargalgrowwll
Peace = Groyarwwlllgrwwwl

G-6. (Locate Object) Spell of Location
Someone was being a cheeky little monkey here.  C'mon – a "large glowing arrow?"  Unless you're hunting for something in the middle of nowhere, this spell is more trouble than it's worth.  Think about it: you're lolling around, hoisting a pint at your favorite tavern, and you see a couple of guys walk by following a large, glowing arrow.  Wouldn't you get up and follow them?  I house-ruled that the higher the Adept's rank with the spell, the smaller the arrow became, and at rank 5 it was small enough to "hide" in the palm of the Adept's hand.

The wording of the spell is open to interpretation.  "The Adept may determine the direction in which he will find any person or object…" does this mean the arrow points directly in the direction of the object relative to the caster's position?  Or the direction the caster must go to "find" the object?"  In other words, does the arrow lead you through the maze, or merely point straight at the object?

G-7. Spell of Mass Charming
All I can say is that your last command had better be "ride as fast and far away from me as possible."  Most people just don't like being controlled like that.

G-8.  Spell of Invisibility
Now, should I cast Invisibility, or Walking Unseen…?  I suppose that technically, merely touching someone else does not break the Spell of Invisibility, since the description specifies an attack.  If that's the only difference, then why would you ever cast Walking Unseen instead of Invisibility?  I guess Walking Unseen has a much lower experience multiple, but still…

G-9. Evil Eye Spell
The best thing about this spell is the duration.  At higher ranks, you can really mess up someone's vacation.

DEMONIC FUN: A demon casting this spell reduces the target's magic resistance and strike chance by 20, and the spell lasts for three weeks!

Q-1. Ritual of Enchantment
Quite the handy little ritual (don't leave home without it).  Hint: if you are a Merchant who specializes in spices or magical paraphenalia, you can get a discount on the myrrh needed for this ritual.  Seriously, even at low ranks, the effects of this ritual can be the difference between a failed spell and a back-breaking backfire.  It has a very high BC and a low Experience Multiple (XM), and should be a mainstay in the E&E Adept's routine.

Q-2. Ritual of Creating Crystal of Vision
My E&E Adept had a projection-TV-size crystal for this ritual.  So useful for spying on enemies.  Merchant discount here? 1,000 SP is a bit stiff for 15 minutes worth of C-SPAN…

Q-3. Ritual of Creating Sleep Dust
Who knows a ritual that costs way more than the end result is worth?  I do!  Seriously… if I got up to Rank-freakin'-10 with this ritual it would still cost me 5,000 SP to make one dose of sleep dust?  Five thousand SP?  Let's see what else 5,000 SP will get you:

  • Two fully-stocked, brand-new alchemist's labs
  • 10,000 arrows
  • 50 Two-handed swords
  • 20,000 sacks of grain
  • 34 evenings with a Rank 10 Courtesan, including gratuity
  • 10,000 pairs of mittens
  • Five warhorses
  • 25 suits of mail
  • 1 Upper deck obstructed view seat at Stones concert

My house rule: knock a zero off all the relevant numbers.  It's still expensive.

Q-4. Ritual of Creating Poison Dust
See above.  Cheaper to hire an alchemist, and the damage is paltry.  What's the point?

S-1. Ventriloquism Spell
A very useful spell, good for all kinds of subterfuge and misdirection (not to mention a killer "talking while drinking the glass of water" routine).  Note from past experience: religious NPCs tend to get really ticked off when you use this spell to mimic the voice of their god, and order them to do stuff for you.

S-2. (Magic Missile) Bolt of Energy Spell
Damage is good.  Damage is your friend.  High BC, low XM, damage not absorbed by normal armor.  Sweet.

S-3. (Knock Spell) Spell of Opening
Another useful spell, sure to cheese off the thief or spy in your party. ("You're stepping on my niche, man!")  I house-ruled that you can't undo a Mage Lock of a rank higher than the Adept's rank with this spell.

S-4. Spell of Enchanting Weapon
More handy stuff.

DEMONIC FUN: A demon casting this spell on a two-handed sword gets you a weapon with a starting BC of 75 doing D+14 damage.  The enchantment lasts for a minimum of 6 minutes and 40 seconds (or 80 pulses).

S-5. Web of Entanglement Spell
It's a bummer this spell has a duration of concentration, but besides that it's great fun at parties, especially ones you're in a hurry to leave. 

S-6. (Hold Portal) Mage Lock Spell
This spell tends to discourage pursuit.  It's also useful for overriding the trigger mechanism for a trap door.

S-7. Spell of Enhancing Enchantment
I never saw much use for this spell before.  However, since you can affect damage with it, it seems quite handy to throw this on top of S-4.

DEMONIC FUN: When combined with S-4, the two-handed sword previously enchanted could do +34 damage for 22 pulses.  Bring on the dragons, baby.

S-8. Spell of Levitation
Opinions wanted: is the levitated person considered to be weightless?  In other words, can you drag him along like a Macy's parade float, and can he be torn from your grasp by a gust of wind?

S-9. Spell of Enchanting Armor
I guess I don't understand why this can only be cast upon armor.  What's the difference between a quilted gambeson and a nice angora sweater?  (I know, I know, it's the symbio-empathic nature of sorcerous magic, blah blah meow meow…)

S-10. Wizard's Eye Spell
Does anyone else find this funny?  "The eye[…] operates as would any normal eye except that it is not attached to the Adept physically."  Yes, except for that one minor detail, it operates just like a normal eye.  Does this mean that if you poke it or blow dust at it, it can't see for awhile?

S-11.  Spell of Slowness
Fun to cast on someone who's got a ritual timed to conclude at midnight on a portentous day.  How big a thing can you cast this spell on?  An ogre?  A dragon?  The Worm Ouroboros?  Maybe there should be some kind of size/Rank breakdown: Rank 0-4, human-sized or smaller; rank 5-10, up to 3-hex monster, etc.

S-12 Spell of Quickness
Most fun when cast on your friends directly after you've hit your enemies with a Spell of Slowness.

Group: DQ-RULES Message: 1174 From: Lev Lafayette Date: 9/17/2007
Subject: Re: Humorous review of DQ magic
Great work, keep going.

The large glowing arrow has caused some mirth in the
past. Perhaps it was DQ trying to encourage T&T
players to participate.

We played that it pointed directly to the object, like
a giant glowing compass.

I like your houserules.

All the best,


Lev

--- Ran Hardin <dantalion64@excite.com> wrote:

>
> Awhile back, I was catching up with an old, old
> friend who was part of
> our gaming group that played countless hours of DQ.
> We got to talking
> about the various spells in the game, and to what
> uses some of the more
> pedestrian spells could be put to. It was an
> enjoyable conversation,
> and it got me thinking about the DQ magic system.
> So, I sat down and
> read over the spells in some detail, and started
> taking some notes in
> reference to my long-dormant adventure setting, and
> re-familiarize
> myself with the magic system. This eventually
> morphed into a glib
> commentary on DQ magic written largely for my own
> amusement.
> There's a bit of serious commentary and occasional
> commentary on
> interesting uses for the spells amidst the japery --
> just don't take it
> too seriously, or personally. The digs at the
> system are fond ones born
> out of a long-standing love of the game, and the
> power-gamer stuff is
> written for laughs.
>
> I recently dug this up, and decided to post it --
> this group has been
> dormant for months, so what the hell, right? I'll
> post the first
> section, to see if there is actually any
> entertainment value and/or
> bases for more serious discussion. If there is,
> I'll post more in
> the coming days.
>
> And if there's nothing but chirping crickets, I'll
> know to stop
> :)
>
>
> We'll start with Rule 52: The College of
> Ensorcelments and
> Enchantments.
>
> It's clear that this college is a gesture to the
> 99.9% of DQ players
> who had played D&D. If you really didn't like the
> rigid
> classification of the DQ magic system, you could
> still sort of play a
> D&D "magic-user" (and isn't "adept" a far more
> elegant
> term?).
>
> NOTE: I have a special section with some spells
> called "Demonic
> Fun." Since demons do everything at Rank 20, their
> magic abilities
> are particularly potent, sometimes humorously (and
> gruesomely) so. This
> section explores the many reasons why, when you
> encounter a demon, you
> should be very, very polite.
>
> T-1 . Witchsight
> A useful talent, this. You can see invisible
> things. Oddly, this also
> includes people who have Walking Unseen cast over
> them, which is
> specifically defined later on the same page as not
> being invisible. Eh
> – close enough for gubmint work, I guess.
>
> G-1. (Charm Person) Spell of Charming
> Here we go with the Spells of Reference. Would it
> really mess up the
> page layouts so badly they couldn't just reprint the
> text of the
> spell each time it occurs? Anyway, this spell can
> be a royal pain for a
> GM, especially if the player gets a few ranks under
> his belt so he can
> cast it from a considerable distance. However, a
> wily GM will keep
> track of exactly who the character has charmed (and
> likely abused in one
> way or another), making return visits to any
> particular locale
> interesting…
>
> G-2. Spell of Telekinesis
> Again with the references... A good spell for
> swiping things, catching
> mice, or messing up precise alignments of magical
> paraphernalia.
>
> DEMONIC FUN: A demon can lift up to 102 pounds, or
> move a 2-pound object
> at up to 41 MPH. Anyone care to approximate the
> damage you get from
> taking a 41 MPH brick to the face?
>
> G-3. (Sleep) Spell of Enchanted Sleep
> Yer standard RPG sleep spell. The Rank 10+ version
> is great anesthesia
> for surgery.
>
> G-4. Spell of Walking Unseen
> I'm quite sure there have been at least 57,000
> discussions between
> DQ players over the years as to what the difference
> is between being
> magically Unseen and magically Invisible. I still
> don't know. If
> you're Invisible, then you can't be seen; if you're
> Walking
> Unseen, you just won't be seen. The end result is
> that you
> aren't seen. Why have separate spells? It seems
> that all detection
> spells and talents that can detect one can detect
> the other.
>
> G-5. Spell of Speaking to Enchanted Creatures
> Quite the versatile spell, as you can speak to any
> kind of magical
> creature. I once had an industrious (in other
> words, "full of
> crap") player try to convince me he should be able
> to write a
> Manticore translation book while under the effects
> of the spell. He
> wound up with a book full of entries like this:
>
> Road = growwwllllyarrrwwll
> Friend = Yargalgrowwll
> Peace = Groyarwwlllgrwwwl
>
> G-6. (Locate Object) Spell of Location
> Someone was being a cheeky little monkey here.
> C'mon – a
> "large glowing arrow?" Unless you're hunting for
> something
> in the middle of nowhere, this spell is more trouble
> than it's
> worth. Think about it: you're lolling around,
> hoisting a pint at
> your favorite tavern, and you see a couple of guys
> walk by following a
> large, glowing arrow. Wouldn't you get up and
> follow them? I
> house-ruled that the higher the Adept's rank with
> the spell, the
> smaller the arrow became, and at rank 5 it was small
> enough to
> "hide" in the palm of the Adept's hand.
>
> The wording of the spell is open to interpretation.
> "The Adept may
> determine the direction in which he will find any
> person or
> object…" does this mean the arrow points directly in
> the direction
> of the object relative to the caster's position? Or
> the direction
> the caster must go to "find" the object?" In other
> words,
> does the arrow lead you through the maze, or merely
> point straight at
> the object?
>
> G-7. Spell of Mass Charming
> All I can say is that your last command had better
> be "ride as fast
> and far away from me as possible." Most people just
> don't like
> being controlled like that.
>
> G-8. Spell of Invisibility
> Now, should I cast Invisibility, or Walking Unseen…?
> I suppose that
> technically, merely touching someone else does not
> break the Spell of
> Invisibility, since the description specifies an
> attack. If that's
> the only difference, then why would you ever cast
> Walking Unseen instead
> of Invisibility? I guess Walking Unseen has a much
> lower experience
> multiple, but still…
>
> G-9. Evil Eye Spell
> The best thing about this spell is the duration. At
> higher ranks, you
> can really mess up someone's vacation.
>
> DEMONIC FUN: A demon casting this spell reduces the
> target's magic
> resistance and strike chance by 20, and the spell
> lasts for three weeks!
>
> Q-1. Ritual of Enchantment
> Quite the handy little ritual (don't leave home
> without it). Hint:
> if you are a Merchant who specializes in spices or
> magical paraphenalia,
> you can get a discount on the myrrh needed for this
> ritual. Seriously,
> even at low ranks, the effects of this ritual can be
> the difference
> between a failed spell and a back-breaking backfire.
> It has a very high
> BC and a low Experience Multiple (XM), and should be
> a mainstay in the
> E&E Adept's routine.
>
> Q-2. Ritual of Creating Crystal of Vision
> My E&E Adept had a projection-TV-size crystal for
> this ritual. So
> useful for spying on enemies. Merchant discount
> here? 1,000 SP is a bit
> stiff for 15 minutes worth of C-SPAN…
>
> Q-3. Ritual of Creating Sleep Dust
> Who knows a ritual that costs way more than the end
> result is worth? I
> do! Seriously… if I got up to Rank-freakin'-10 with
> this ritual
> it would still cost me 5,000 SP to make one dose of
> sleep dust? Five
> thousand SP? Let's see what else 5,000 SP will get
> you:
>
> * Two fully-stocked, brand-new alchemist's labs
> * 10,000
> arrows * 50 Two-handed swords * 20,000 sacks
> of grain * 34
> evenings with a Rank 10 Courtesan, including
> gratuity * 10,000 pairs
> of mittens * Five warhorses * 25 suits of mail
> * 1 Upper deck
> obstructed view seat at Stones concert
>
> My house rule: knock a zero off all the relevant
> numbers. It's
> still expensive.
>
> Q-4. Ritual of Creating Poison Dust
> See above. Cheaper to hire an alchemist, and the
> damage is paltry.
> What's the point?
>
> S-1. Ventriloquism Spell
> A very useful spell, good for all kinds of
> subterfuge and misdirection
> (not to mention a killer "talking while drinking the
> glass of
> water" routine). Note from past experience:
> religious NPCs tend to
> get really ticked off when you use this spell to
> mimic the voice of
> their god, and order them to do stuff for you.
>
> S-2. (Magic Missile) Bolt of Energy Spell
> Damage is good. Damage is your friend. High BC,
> low XM, damage not
> absorbed by normal armor. Sweet.
>
> S-3. (Knock Spell) Spell of Opening
> Another useful spell, sure to cheese off the thief
> or spy in your party.
> ("You're stepping on my niche, man!") I house-ruled
> that
> you can't undo a Mage Lock of a rank higher than the
> Adept's
> rank with this spell.
>
> S-4. Spell of Enchanting Weapon
> More handy stuff.
>
> DEMONIC FUN: A demon casting this spell on a
> two-handed sword gets you a
> weapon with a starting BC of 75 doing D+14 damage.
> The enchantment
> lasts for a minimum of 6 minutes and 40 seconds (or
> 80 pulses).
>
> S-5. Web of Entanglement Spell
> It's a bummer this spell has a duration of
> concentration, but
> besides that it's great fun at parties, especially
> ones you're
> in a hurry to leave.
>
> S-6. (Hold Portal) Mage Lock Spell
> This spell tends to discourage pursuit. It's also
> useful for
> overriding the trigger mechanism for a trap door.
>
> S-7. Spell of Enhancing Enchantment
> I never saw much use for this spell before.
> However, since you can
> affect damage with it, it seems quite handy to throw
> this on top of S-4.
>
> DEMONIC FUN: When combined with S-4, the two-handed
> sword previously
> enchanted could do +34 damage for 22 pulses. Bring
> on the dragons,
> baby.
>
> S-8. Spell of Levitation
> Opinions wanted: is the levitated person considered
> to be weightless?
> In other words, can you drag him along like a Macy's
> parade float,
> and can he be torn from your grasp by a gust of
> wind?
>
> S-9. Spell of Enchanting Armor
> I guess I don't understand why this can only be cast
> upon armor.
> What's the difference between a quilted gambeson and
> a nice angora
> sweater? (I know, I know, it's the symbio-empathic
> nature of
> sorcerous magic, blah blah meow meow…)
>
> S-10. Wizard's Eye Spell
> Does anyone else find this funny? "The eye[…]
> operates as would
> any normal eye except that it is not attached to the
> Adept
> physically." Yes, except for that one minor detail,
> it operates
> just like a normal eye. Does this mean that if you
> poke it or blow dust
> at it, it can't see for awhile?
>
> S-11. Spell of Slowness
> Fun to cast on someone who's got a ritual timed to
> conclude at
> midnight on a portentous day. How big a thing can
> you cast this spell
> on? An ogre? A dragon? The Worm Ouroboros? Maybe
> there should be
> some kind of size/Rank breakdown: Rank 0-4,
> human-sized or smaller; rank
> 5-10, up to 3-hex monster, etc.
>
> S-12 Spell of Quickness
> Most fun when cast on your friends directly after
> you've hit your
> enemies with a Spell of Slowness.
>
>
>



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Group: DQ-RULES Message: 1175 From: Jeffery K. McGonagill Date: 9/17/2007
Subject: Re: Humorous review of DQ magic
I allow my players to cast invisibility on the large glowing arrow. 
 
As for Levitation, the person/object isn't weightless, locked into place, nor dealing with friction if you want to tow said person/object.
 
Fun with Spell of Opening, if it backfires it unlocks things upon the person, very annoying for the person in full plate armor.
 
Enhance Enchantment is always popular in my groups, particularly for those who have low BC spells.
 
~Jeffery~
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 1176 From: Chris C Date: 9/17/2007
Subject: Re: Humorous review of DQ magic
Regarding the issue of the spell Walking Unseen versus the spell of
Invisibility, it is also a struggle to decide which spell is more
powerful. Walk Unseen is easier to cast but even if a person is
looking straight at you they don't notice you. The spell of
Invisibility is harder to cast, but you are not only invisible but
unable to be noticed by any means, unless the perceiver rolls his
Perception or less.
So Invisible is more powerful but people get a Perception roll, Walk
Unseen means you are not noticed unless somebody touches you. Walk
Unseen lasts hours whereas Invisible lasts minutes. As one of my
gamers says: HUUUUUUHHHHHH?

Maybe you leave footprints and other signs when using Walk Unseen,
whereas when using Invisible you don't leave any trackable signs at all.

Anybody else have any thoughts regarding that?
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 1177 From: Jeffery K. McGonagill Date: 9/18/2007
Subject: Re: Humorous review of DQ magic
Only with Mind Ivisibility do you get a PC check.

> Regarding the issue of the spell Walking Unseen versus the spell of
> Invisibility, it is also a struggle to decide which spell is more
> powerful. Walk Unseen is easier to cast but even if a person is
> looking straight at you they don't notice you. The spell of
> Invisibility is harder to cast, but you are not only invisible but
> unable to be noticed by any means, unless the perceiver rolls his
> Perception or less.
> So Invisible is more powerful but people get a Perception roll, Walk
> Unseen means you are not noticed unless somebody touches you. Walk
> Unseen lasts hours whereas Invisible lasts minutes. As one of my
> gamers says: HUUUUUUHHHHHH?
>
> Maybe you leave footprints and other signs when using Walk Unseen,
> whereas when using Invisible you don't leave any trackable signs at all.
>
> Anybody else have any thoughts regarding that?
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 1178 From: Ran Hardin Date: 9/18/2007
Subject: Re: Humorous review of DQ magic
--- In dq-rules@yahoogroups.com, "Chris C" <cccurlee@...> wrote:

> Maybe you leave footprints and other signs when using Walk Unseen,
> whereas when using Invisible you don't leave any trackable signs at
all.
>
> Anybody else have any thoughts regarding that?

I'd think it would be the other way around, sort of: you leave
footprints when you're invisible which can be instantly spotted. You
also leave footprints while walking unseen, but no one notices you
making them (although they may see them moments later).
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 1179 From: Ran Hardin Date: 9/18/2007
Subject: Re: Humorous review of DQ magic
True, and also the Mind version apparently lets you stay invisible
while attacking.

--- In dq-rules@yahoogroups.com, "Jeffery K. McGonagill" <igmod@...>
wrote:
>
> Only with Mind Ivisibility do you get a PC check.
>
> > Regarding the issue of the spell Walking Unseen versus the spell
of
> > Invisibility, it is also a struggle to decide which spell is more
> > powerful. Walk Unseen is easier to cast but even if a person is
> > looking straight at you they don't notice you. The spell of
> > Invisibility is harder to cast, but you are not only invisible
but
> > unable to be noticed by any means, unless the perceiver rolls his
> > Perception or less.
> > So Invisible is more powerful but people get a Perception roll,
Walk
> > Unseen means you are not noticed unless somebody touches you.
Walk
> > Unseen lasts hours whereas Invisible lasts minutes. As one of my
> > gamers says: HUUUUUUHHHHHH?
> >
> > Maybe you leave footprints and other signs when using Walk
Unseen,
> > whereas when using Invisible you don't leave any trackable signs
at all.
> >
> > Anybody else have any thoughts regarding that?
>
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 1180 From: Ran Hardin Date: 9/18/2007
Subject: Re: Humorous review of DQ magic
--- In dq-rules@yahoogroups.com, "Jeffery K. McGonagill" <igmod@...>
wrote:

> As for Levitation, the person/object isn't weightless, locked into
place, nor dealing with friction if you want to tow said person/object.
>

> ~Jeffery~

So the adept isn't weightless, but can't "brace" to pull something, or
swing a weapon?
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 1181 From: Ran Hardin Date: 9/18/2007
Subject: Part 2 - Humorous review of DQ Magic

Rule 53: The College of Sorceries of the Mind

I haven't had too many Mind Sorcerers in the games I've run, and I've never played one.  I probably would've been into it had DQ been released when I was still enjoying the Deryni books (and is it just me, or does everyone re-read books they enjoyed as youngsters and think "Wow, those books really sucked"?).

I've never implemented this as a house rule, but it's occurred to me that some Mind Sorcerers should get penalties when dealing with minds of other races.  For example, a human adept screwing with the mind of a 10,00-year-old elf should be a little overwhelmed by the situation, and an elf Mind Sorcerer working over an orcish mind should be dealing with significant revulsion.

The biggest problem I have with this college is that it isn't very funny.  ;)

T-1. Resist Temperature

The damage reduction seems a bit paltry considering the number of XP you have to shell out.  I'd probably make it a 1 point reduction for every 3 ranks.  The immunity to temperature extremes is a nice benefit, especially for characters who want to go with Frazetta-esque "bare necessities" look as far as outfits go.

T-2. Resist Pain

Wow.  An Adept with this talent can't be tortured or stunned.  The concentration bonus is nice, too, but automatically avoiding Stun is huge, huge, huge.  Easily worth the XP.

T-3. Sensitivity to Danger

Considering the XM is the same as for T-2, there's less bang for the buck here.  I'd think about raising the bonus to 5 + (3/rank).

G-1. Spell of Extrasensory Perception

The problem with this spell is that the range makes it fairly worthless at low ranks – anyone within range can probably hear the caster cast it!  Also, it apparently is not directional (compare the "pinpoint" reference to S-2 Telepathy in the description of S-1 Mental Attack).

Player: I cast ESP.
GM: OK, you detect three entities who seem filled with aggressive curiosity about something…
Player: Where are they?
GM: [Makes secret PC roll] You don't know, but they're within range of the spell, and their aggressive feelings are growing...
Player: I just alerted them to my presence, didn't I?
GM: Evidently.  Now, what's your current Defense?

G-2. Spell of Limited Precognition

Very limited precognition.  I really don't see much use for this, and it'd be better off as a talent.  I mean, I understand that this spell in some ways reflects "historic" precognition: basically uncontrollable and potentially irrelevant to the caster.  Still, who wants to pay 150 per to increase their base chance of seeing Mordo the Merchant taking his bath three hours from now?  As a GM, if I wanted to give my characters a premonition or a precognitive flash, I'd just give `em one (usually in a dream).

G-3.  Mind Cloak Spell

This is a handy spell – as long as you're up against other Mind Sorcerers.  The problem is that there are hardly any spells in other colleges this protects against.  I suppose there are a handful of beings that can normally detect/read minds, but really… If you were doing a Deryni game, where everyone was a Mind Sorcerer, than it would be a useful spell.

G-4.  Spell of Empathy

This seems like a dangerous spell.  OK, you're a Mind Sorcerer; your buddy is a fighter who's been hacked up by a hobgoblin.  Do you want to lay on hands and feel his emotions and physical sensations? Now there's two of you writhing on the ground and screaming...  In its favor, this spell could engender some interesting role-playing possibilities.

G-5.  Spell of Hypnotism

As is mentioned elsewhere, most NPCs don't take kindly to the knowledge that they were mentally controlled.

DEMONIC FUN: A Rank 20, this spell can be cast, in theory, from 315 feet away.  However, the caster must be in verbal communication to cast the spell.  "YOUR EYELIDS ARE GETTING VERY HEAVY!! CAN YOU HEAR ME!?"

G-6.  Spell of Controlling Animal

I comment on this type of spell elsewhere, but I'll make the assumption here that domesticated animals would not ever attack the caster unless they were made to do something really outrageous or dangerous.  I'd think this spell would most often be used to calm or quiet an animal.  It also makes wild game easy targets for dinner ("Hold still, Bambi…").

G-7.  Spell of Controlling Person

Here's where this college gets ugly.  It's interesting to note that, unlike G-5, there is no requirement for verbal communication.  I'm therefore assuming this is more of a "puppet master"-type spell, which might include having the target stab himself or a comrade, for example.  I'd probably give the target another resistance check or something before letting that happen – the old "last burst of willpower before succumbing" sort of thing.  This spell is why you have to create NPCs with high WP.  Really sinister potential for abuse, not to mention plot-busting.

Q-1 Ritual of Binding Will

The possibilities of this ritual seem obvious.  It's great for having friendly NPCs turn on the heroes.  Can you hypnotize someone to forget they were bound?

S-1.  Spell of Mental Attack

Yikes – a "Virtual Sap" spell.  Who needs the Assassin Skill?  If you hit a target with this spell using S-2, they won't know where the attack is coming from even if it doesn't work the first time (with the caveat about spell range vs. hearing range).

S-2.  Spell of Telepathy

A powerful spell.  Not only can you read multiple minds during the duration of the spell, you're also not concentrating.  I would still assume that G-3 provides protection from this spell.  Still, telepathic abilities are a GM's greatest bane.

S-3. Phantasm Spell

What's especially nasty about this is that there's nothing that says you can't have more than one of these going simultaneously… I'd limit it to one phantasm per target, though.

DEMONIC FUN:  A Phantasm sent by a Demon has a total of 55 points to divide between FT and EN, and it does D+16 damage when it hits.  Which is every Pulse.  Automatically.  While it's invisible to everyone but the victim.

S-4.  Spell of Molecular Disruption

Interesting name.  Do Adepts really call it this?  Does that mean that people in a DQ world (or at least the adepts) are well-versed in atomic theory?  Interesting that it only works on "beings."  Apparently, you can take down an oak tree with it, but it doesn't do jack against an oaken door -- which implies that what you're affecting is the link between the being and its corporeal form, which implies that the spell is badly misnamed, which implies… oh, screw it.

S-5.  Spell of Molecular Rearrangement

Same questions as above, but -- ugh.  The XM and BC make this useful only if you concentrate on getting better at it to the exclusion of everything else.  However, since it lasts for 10 minutes per rank, some Ritual Spell Preparation might make this doable. 

The wording of the spell description is a bit curious (from Second Edition Revised 2.19, page 50): "The Adept may rearrange the cells of any object that fails to resist, turning it into anything of the same mass that he desires."  So are we rearranging cells or molecules here?  Non-organic objects don't even have "cells," so I'm assuming the word really should have been "molecules." 

But what does "anything of the same mass" mean?  Does it mean "anything of the same molecular substance" or "anything?"  In other words, can you turn a hunk of marble into a marble statue, or into a 65 Volkswagen Bus?

S-6.  Force Shield Spell

I don't understand this spell.  Shouldn't a "force shield" absorb damage, rather than subtract from Strike Chance?  Maybe this is meant to be taken literally: since it's a "shield," it adds to your defense.  Spells that actually increase armor protection are few and far between, which I don't understand.  Too unbalancing, maybe?

S-7.  Spell of Healing

The fact that this heals EN damage makes it particularly valuable.

S-8.  Spell of Invisibility

Note that this is different from other Invisibility spells.  This one is straight up, all-or-nothing invisibility, dependent on a PC roll with a Difficulty Factor of 1.0.  Nice.

S-9.  Spell of Telekinesis

ABC (Already Been Covered).

S-10.  Spell of Telekinetic Rage

Confusing and scary.  I'm not sure why the target would take damage just from being moved quickly through the air – it's the landing that would hurt.  Wouldn't hitting a wall after flying 20 feet hurt just as much, assuming the acceleration was instantaneous?  And wouldn't landing in a giant pile of feathers, or a very large dish of pudding, tend to lessen the damage?

DEMONIC FUN:  A demon standing right next to you will hurl you 125 feet.  You would take D+120 damage if you failed to resist.  That's just sick.  Short of "instant death" spells, I believe this is the most damage that can be done with a spell.

R-1.  Ritual of Binding Elements

Wow… you get your choice!  More on binding elements later.

Group: DQ-RULES Message: 1182 From: igmod@comcast.net Date: 9/18/2007
Subject: Re: Humorous review of DQ magic
 
 

> > As for Levitation, the person/object isn't weightless, locked into
> place, nor dealing with friction if you want to tow said person/object.
> >
>
> > ~Jeffery~
>
> So the adept isn't weightless, but can't "brace" to pull something, or
> swing a weapon?

It is my view that the person can't brace, but doesn't stop them from swinging a weapon, but there are consequences to the action per Newton's Laws

Group: DQ-RULES Message: 1183 From: Lev Lafayette Date: 9/18/2007
Subject: Re: Part 2 - Humorous review of DQ Magic
--- Ran Hardin <dantalion64@excite.com> wrote:

> G-4. Spell of Empathy
>
> This seems like a dangerous spell. OK, you're a
> Mind Sorcerer; your
> buddy is a fighter who's been hacked up by a
> hobgoblin. Do you want
> to lay on hands and feel his emotions and physical
> sensations? Now
> there's two of you writhing on the ground and
> screaming... In its
> favor, this spell could engender some interesting
> role-playing
> possibilities.

I suppose such as the RuneQuest spell (derived from
Ida Nellidoff and Aleister Crowley, of all people)
"eroto-comatose lucidity", right?

These are good! Keep going!



Lev



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Group: DQ-RULES Message: 1184 From: Mandos Mitchinson Date: 9/18/2007
Subject: Re: Part 2 - Humorous review of DQ Magic
> G-4. Spell of Empathy
>
> This seems like a dangerous spell. OK, you're a Mind
> Sorcerer; your buddy is a fighter who's been hacked up by a
> hobgoblin. Do you want to lay on hands and feel his emotions
> and physical sensations? Now there's two of you writhing on
> the ground and screaming... In its favor, this spell could
> engender some interesting role-playing possibilities.

Given the talent of Resist Pain, the Mind Mage is unlikely to be on the
ground screaming.

With a few ranks behind it gaining the adept some range this becomes the
best and most effective combat healing spell in the game, particularly if
combined with Waters of Healing. In our campaign this is a very popular
spell with Mind Mages being given large numbers of healing potions so they
can stay upright while absorbing and healing the groups damage without the
front line fighters having to stop to drink potions themselves.

Mandos
/s
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 1185 From: Jeffery K. McGonagill Date: 9/18/2007
Subject: Re: Part 2 - Humorous review of DQ Magic
Mind Sorcerers are among the most common Colleges PCs in my campaign choose.  Two of my oldest Characters are Mind Mages, though one is predominantly a fighter.

Rule 53: The College of Sorceries of the Mind

I haven't had too many Mind Sorcerers in the games I've run, and I've never played one.  I probably would've been into it had DQ been released when I was still enjoying the Deryni books (and is it just me, or does everyone re-read books they enjoyed as youngsters and think "Wow, those books really sucked"?).

T-3. Sensitivity to Danger

This is popular among PCs to purchase as an Artifact.  Think Spidey-sense.

G-1. Spell of Extrasensory Perception

The problem with this spell is that the range makes it fairly worthless at low ranks – anyone within range can probably hear the caster cast it!  Also, it apparently is not directional (compare the "pinpoint" reference to S-2 Telepathy in the description of S-1 Mental Attack).

Not a popular one in my experience, though avoiding being heard doing the spell is not difficult.

G-2. Spell of Limited Precognition

This can be a great deal of fun.  Keep the PCs guessing as to whether the Precognition is relevant.

G-3.  Mind Cloak Spell

I let PCs also use it to avoid being targeted by the Location Spell, or spied upon with a Crystal of Vision.

G-4.  Spell of Empathy

See Resist Pain

Now there's two of you writhing on the ground and screaming.

G-7.  Spell of Controlling Person

Here's where this college gets ugly.  It's interesting to note that, unlike G-5, there is no requirement for verbal communication.  I'm therefore assuming this is more of a "puppet master"-type spell, which might include having the target stab himself or a comrade, for example.  I'd probably give the target another resistance check or something before letting that happen – the old "last burst of willpower before succumbing" sort of thing.  This spell is why you have to create NPCs with high WP.  Really sinister potential for abuse, not to mention plot-busting.

My most classic situation with this was a group fighting a Devil of Mind Magics.  A PC failed their Saving Throw.  As I was resolving the combat action I would ask the Controlled PC to roll for attack and then ask for damage.  He would tell me 10 pts, then I would address the PC sitting right next to him and say, you get hit for 10 pts.  Neither clued in for the whole fight.

Q-1 Ritual of Binding Will

The possibilities of this ritual seem obvious.  It's great for having friendly NPCs turn on the heroes.  Can you hypnotize someone to forget they were bound?

Neither of my Mind Mage Characters will use this ritual.

S-2.  Spell of Telepathy

A powerful spell.  Not only can you read multiple minds during the duration of the spell, you're also not concentrating.  I would still assume that G-3 provides protection from this spell.  Still, telepathic abilities are a GM's greatest bane.

Think Season 3 of Buffy episode, Earshot.

S-3. Phantasm Spell

What's especially nasty about this is that there's nothing that says you can't have more than one of these going simultaneously… I'd limit it to one phantasm per target, though.

DEMONIC FUN:  A Phantasm sent by a Demon has a total of 55 points to divide between FT and EN, and it does D+16 damage when it hits.  Which is every Pulse.  Automatically.  While it's invisible to everyone but the victim.

Unless other members of the party have Witchsight.  I also allow armor to apply.

S-5.  Spell of Molecular Rearrangement

Same questions as above, but -- ugh.  The XM and BC make this useful only if you concentrate on getting better at it to the exclusion of everything else.  However, since it lasts for 10 minutes per rank, some Ritual Spell Preparation might make this doable. 

The wording of the spell description is a bit curious (from Second Edition Revised 2.19, page 50): "The Adept may rearrange the cells of any object that fails to resist, turning it into anything of the same mass that he desires."  So are we rearranging cells or molecules here?  Non-organic objects don't even have "cells," so I'm assuming the word really should have been "molecules." 

But what does "anything of the same mass" mean?  Does it mean "anything of the same molecular substance" or "anything?"  In other words, can you turn a hunk of marble into a marble statue, or into a 65 Volkswagen Bus?

I interpret this as same molecular structure, and done on a living creature is basically an instant death spell.

S-7.  Spell of Healing

The fact that this heals EN damage makes it particularly valuable.

In my groups this has always been the most popular Healing spell.

S-10.  Spell of Telekinetic Rage

Confusing and scary.  I'm not sure why the target would take damage just from being moved quickly through the air – it's the landing that would hurt.  Wouldn't hitting a wall after flying 20 feet hurt just as much, assuming the acceleration was instantaneous?  And wouldn't landing in a giant pile of feathers, or a very large dish of pudding, tend to lessen the damage?

I've always assumed they are taking damage not from flying through the air, but being bounced on the ground over the distance.  On my Game World, there has been the recent appearance of Telekinetic Rage land mines (magical traps) for Army combat.

Group: DQ-RULES Message: 1186 From: Jeffery K. McGonagill Date: 9/18/2007
Subject: Re: Part 2 - Humorous review of DQ Magic
I can just imagine the Mind Mage sloshing around after a big fight.

~Jeffery~

> With a few ranks behind it gaining the adept some range this becomes the
> best and most effective combat healing spell in the game, particularly if
> combined with Waters of Healing. In our campaign this is a very popular
> spell with Mind Mages being given large numbers of healing potions so they
> can stay upright while absorbing and healing the groups damage without the
> front line fighters having to stop to drink potions themselves.
>
> Mandos
> /s
>
>
>
> To Post a message, send it to: dq-rules@eGroups.com
> To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: dq-rules-unsubscribe@eGroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 1187 From: Ran Hardin Date: 9/19/2007
Subject: Re: Part 2 - Humorous review of DQ Magic

--- In dq-rules@yahoogroups.com, "Mandos Mitchinson" <mandos@...> wrote:

>
> > G-4.  Spell of Empathy
> >
> > This seems like a dangerous spell.  OK, you're a Mind
> > Sorcerer; your buddy is a fighter who's been hacked up by a
> > hobgoblin.  Do you want to lay on hands and feel his emotions
> > and physical sensations? Now there's two of you writhing on
> > the ground and screaming...  In its favor, this spell could
> > engender some interesting role-playing possibilities.
>
> Given the talent of Resist Pain, the Mind Mage is unlikely to be on the
> ground screaming.

*Doink*  Good point!

>
> With a few ranks behind it gaining the adept some range this becomes the
> best and most effective combat healing spell in the game, particularly if
> combined with Waters of Healing. In our campaign this is a very popular
> spell with Mind Mages being given large numbers of healing potions so they
> can stay upright while absorbing and healing the groups damage without the
> front line fighters having to stop to drink potions themselves.

This seems a bit unrealistic to me -- but of course "realism" is always relative in an RPG game.  I mean, just because someone can resist pain doesn't mean he doesn't feel it, or want to feel it over and over and over and over again -- and there's the powerful emotions from others that go along with each "dose" of pain.  As a GM, I would certainly introduce some emotional complications from such an existence.  Secondarily, there's the question of a guy walking around with a giant belt or satchel of potions...

 

Group: DQ-RULES Message: 1188 From: Ran Hardin Date: 9/19/2007
Subject: Re: Part 2 - Humorous review of DQ Magic


--- In dq-rules@yahoogroups.com, "Jeffery K. McGonagill" <igmod@...> wrote:
> Mind Sorcerers are among the most common Colleges PCs in my campaign choose. Two of my oldest Characters are Mind Mages, though one is predominantly a fighter.
>

Amazing how different game experiences can be, isn't it?

> G-1. Spell of Extrasensory Perception
>
> The problem with this spell is that the range makes it fairly worthless at low ranks - anyone within range can probably hear the caster cast it! Also, it apparently is not directional (compare the "pinpoint" reference to S-2 Telepathy in the description of S-1 Mental Attack).
>
> Not a popular one in my experience, though avoiding being heard doing the spell is not difficult.

I've always stressed that adepts have to speak clearly to cast a spell -- no muttering into your sleeve allowed.  How 'bout y'all?  in your games, how loud must an adept speak to cast a spell?

Group: DQ-RULES Message: 1189 From: Ran Hardin Date: 9/19/2007
Subject: Part 3 - Humorous Review of DQ Magic

Rule 56: College of Air Magics

(Note: I'm skipping Illusions and Naming, because Illusionsists never existed on my world  -- I hate the whole idea, frankly, and source material be damned -- and Namers are extinct [(although certain generic and even individual True Names are out there for any adept to useif she can find them, which ain't easy]).

What a trip this college is!  There are many flexible spells to liven up even the dullest of death-defying adventures.  I had a jolly great time playing an Air Mage in one game, and sometimes my GM did, too! Let's take a look, shall we?

Let's start with this weighty bit of prose:

[56.2] The following numbers are added to the Base Chance of performing any talent, spell, or ritual of the College of Air Magics .

Caster occupies a mountain top

+20

Caster is underground or otherwise totally enclosed*

-15

Caster is only partially enclosed**

-5

*   Total enclosure is defined as being surrounded by walls or earth in a windowless area where there is no direct and immediate communication with the air outside.

**  Partial enclosure is defined as being in a cave or dwelling or similar walled or earth-enclosed area, but being in sight of a window or means of egress or other means of direct contact with the air outside. All modifiers are cumulative (DQ 2nd Edition Revised Version 2.19, p.53).

OK, what corporate lawyer wrote this? "…[B]eing in sight of a window or means of egress or other means of direct contact with the air outside."  Sheesh! (Can you have indirect contact with air?  Anyway…)

T-1. Predict Weather

Obviously, they modeled the chance for success after the National Weather Service. Really, this is a near-useless talent.  Unless you roll 86 or better, you're just as well off guessing the weather by what time of year it is, how many sparrows you saw in flight this morning, and if your trick knee is acting up.

G-1. Spell of Resistance to Cold

The spell's description doesn't really match the name of the spell (unfortunately something of a trend throughout these spell descriptions), as it limits its usefulness to resisting damaging cold-based spells.  And naturally, it also grants protection from fire-based spells, because – HUH?!?  So you get a plus to resisting cold spells, but you actually get to subtract damage from fire spells.  I guess you're putting up a barrier of coldness, or something.  Don't you think the damage of a cold-based spell would be reduced, though?  Or that you could just be immune to those chilly drafts coming in under your door? 

Note the inequity between this college and the College of Fire Magics : the latter college has a spell to resist fire AND one to be immune from normal fires AND one providing immunity from magical fires.  Why are there no such corresponding spells in this college?  (In my house rules, there are…)

G-2. Spell of Ice Creation

I've gotten more mileage out of this silly spell than I can count.  I have: created ice slides to evade pursuit (the landing at the bottom of the hill was a bit rough, but still); made ice cubes (after shattering the large initial cube, of course) to impress a noblewoman; created temporary refrigerated boxes (by coating the inside of a cedar chest with ice).  Awesomely useful spell.

G-3. Spell of Mage Wind

Enough wind to propel a longship.  Hmmm… what else can you do with that much wind?  And you're free to control the direction it blows, too. Great for smoking goblins out of nasty little warrens.  Also great for producing out-of-control brush fires, which can really mess with an army's morale, not to mention its sense of direction.  Oh, and it's enough wind to stop a longship, too.

G-4. Spell of Communicating with Avians

OK, here's another spell where the name and description don't match.  The title says "avians."  The description says "flying creatures."  These are not congruent sets (the word "avian" means "pertaining to birds").  I've always assumed it really should be all flying creatures, since you have to figure they'd all have some kind of affinity with air, and hence subject to the spell.  As with all such spells, I'm not sure how much information you can get from a black-capped chickadee, but hey, it's your dime.

G-5. Wind Whistle Spell

OK, so with G-3, you get a guaranteed wind strength, and you can alter it's direction at will.  With this spell, not only do you have to wait for the wind to get there (what, is it taking a shower? It's wind), but it can only come from one direction, and you have a 25% chance of it being a wimpier wind than the Mage Wind spell.  So you have to eat all that for the chance that it might be a strong wind?  Hardly seems worth it.  I suppose the increased duration is helpful if your ship is going in a straight line, or if you want a nice breeze for your nap.

G-6. Spell of Conjuring Mist

You can conjure mist or fog with this spell – good to know.  (What's with the litigious hair-splitting?)  What makes this spell great is that you can shape it any way you want to, and then move it around.  Wanna scare the natives?  Have a giant mist-dragon fly slowly towards their settlement.  Also good for making obscene gestures at a distance – you ain't lived until you've used a towering fog-titan to flip the bird to fleeing foes.  It also makes for a good Ghostly Army (can you tell I played this character in a game with lots of military goings on?).

G-7. Spell of Summoning Avians

Again, we have the erroneous conflation of "avian" with "flying creature."  OK, I'll get over it.  Anyway, you get to summon something that flies.  (In the right ecosystem, this is also known as the "Spell of Summoning Dinner.")  Here we also have the infamous "if you can't whistle, your character can't cast the spell" idiocy.  All my copies of DQ have this crossed out.  That's like telling a fire mage player his character doesn't get a +20 unless he actually stands in a bonfire.  Even the justification for it is dumb.  You think the Air College didn't have Whistling classes in the curriculum? If you do enforce this rule, be sure to try and feed the player about to cast this spell some crackers…

G-8. Spell of Detecting Fumes

OK, you can detect fumes and vapors.  Now, I'm a picky SOB who irrationally expects precision of language in a 25-year-old RPG, so I'm wondering exactly what value this spell has.  Webster's defines a vapor as "barely visible or cloudy diffused matter."  In other words, you can see it.  "Fumes" generally carries the connotation of a smelly gaseous substance, so that's readily detectible, too.  What's left to detect?  A handy spell to have in a mine, maybe, but canaries don't cost FT.  Of course, canaries don't get a 25% chance to tell you what's slowly poisoning them, either, so there's that...

Or, they could just re-name it "Spell of Detecting and Identifying Gasses."

And how many of us in our youth referenced this spell in a cutting remark about someone else's farts?

Wow, only eight general knowledge spells.  A bit on the paltry side, compared to Earth Magic's 11 and Water Magic's 14.  Oh, well.

Q-1. Ritual of Wind Speak

This ritual deserves some serious analysis, because it bespeaks loads about the designer's assumptions about a gaming world.  First, it assumes that the world has "wind spirits."   Second, it assumes that these spirits can see and hear things, know the local languages, and that they're plentiful enough that there's at least one every 300 feet.  Wow!  That's a lot of assumption about how the world is composed. A low BC, but you get +5 per rank, and the XM is dirt-cheap for a ritual of this much power. 

Q-2. Ritual of Binding Air

OK, here we go with the binding rituals.  I wish the authors had spent just a wee bit of time describing what one can do with a bound element; however, we get more information regarding the element of air than any other elemental binding ritual.  Here's the scary sentence: "The Adept gains control of all of the facets of the element."   This includes, we are told, the ability to control weather, to "shape the winds" (which I guess means intensity and direction), and even create an air elemental(!).  That is frickin' powerful.  You could create an air helmet for underwater/poisonous gas immunity – or create a tornado.  Or the mother of all hailstorms.  Or using them to change the air pressure around enmies to pop their eardrums and make their eyes bug out.  I'd think the penalties for losing one's concentration while working with bound air would be pretty steep.

S-1. Windstorm Spell

(aka "Why adventurers hate Air Adepts" spell)

"Now, taste my airy wrath… whoops, sorry, there Larry… Elvira… Pip…" This spell has a huge radius as you progress in rank, and you're likely to knock over everyone – friends, enemies, your horses, your battle standard…

S-2. Spell of Storm Calling

Legitimate question: If the Adept moves after the storm arrives, does the storm front move, too, or does it stay put?

S-3. Spell of Ice Construction

The upgraded version of Ice Creation, this spell put joy in my heart and fear in my GM's eyes.  10 cubic feet + another 10 per rank, in any shape or shapes I want.  I mean, where do I start?  A favorite: sending a barrage of bowling-ball-sized, spiked ice balls rolling down a steeply-slanted roof or hillside onto unwary enemies.  Ice marbles are great for making people slip and fall, and 10 cubic feet plus 10 per rank makes a mess of ice marbles.  Ice caltrops can stop a whole company of cavalry.  I even made an ice wheel (a series of them, actually), to replace a bad wheel on a wagon.  Also, tavern-owners pay premium prices for crushed ice in the summer time.

S-4. Spell of Controlling Avians

The only way to make the Spell of Summoning Avians worth much besides a hearty skeet shoot is to control them once you call them, otherwise they tend to show up and then just fly away again.  Even so, make sure you send them flying far away before the end of the spell duration, otherwise you get attacked.  Or, just eat them (see Spell of Summoning Dinner).

S-5. Spell of Freezing Wind

OK, so why is it that being damaged by a freezing wind increases your chances of getting infected?  Anybody?  ("Because it's magic, that's why…now shut it.")  Seriously, I don't get the whole cold = infectious equation.  Maybe it's a really dirty freezing wind…

S-6. Spell of Ice Projectiles

A formidable spell, as it attacks multiple targets, not to mention increasing the BC of infection.  (Maybe it's really dirty ice…)

DEMONIC FUN:  A demon can hit 21 separate targets with this spell.  Each target that doesn't resist gets hit for +17 damage.  Yeah.

S-7. Lightning Spell

Follow the bouncing bolt… I had a player who would try to figure out insane multiple ricochets for surprise attacks with lightning.  Frequently, he'd mess up his vectors and then the fun began… A strong spell, as it automatically causes Stun, and still does half damage upon a successful resist.

S-8. Spell of Hibernation

A favorite of kidnappers (keeps the victims nice and quiet).  It can also preserve your dying friends until you get them to a Healer.

S-9. Weapon of Cold Spell

The Air Magics weapon modification spell.  Not just cold – it's infernally cold.™  But you can't conjure a magic weapon out of ice, which is a bummer.  Sure, you can make a normal sword using Ice Construction, but it's not magical, and they tend to break on the first hit.

S-10. Barrier of Wind Spell

Barrier of Wind plus Spell of Freezing Wind can make an Air Adept an untempting target.

S-11. Snow Simulacrum Spell

Man, if you thought Spell of Ice Construction was fun…  I was eternally upset with my GM who would not allow me to use Spell of Ice Construction to quickly whip up, say, an ice stone giant, and then animate it with this spell.  "It has to be made out of snow, not ice," he told me.  Picky SOB…  Anyway, the ramifications of this spell are astounding.  If your party has the time to sculpt a snow dragon or a snow giant, you can have a bit of fun (and many possible backfires from the low BC).  Beginners might want to go with a giant snow snake – they're much easier to sculpt.  I never got the chance to have my group actually go out in the snow and sculpt something, though – one of my fondest wishes.  The timing just never worked out.

Here's a few interesting questions that came up when I played an Air Mage: can snow spiders spin webs?  Are snow vipers poisonous?  Can you make a snow efreet?  Can you use Communicate with Avians to talk to a snow owl? (The answers I received were: No; no; yes, but it's basically just a normal dude; and yes.  This last one was useful for scouting and sending messages.)

S-12. Wall of Ice

The wall spell for this college.  Ice pillars are fun to push over on things. A ring of ice coupled with Ice Construction can make a reasonable, if somewhat short-lived, igloo on short notice.

S-13. Ray of Cold Spell

More dirty, germ-laden air to bother others.

S-14. Spell of Sleep Gas

Damaging sleep gas, to be exact, which I've never completely understood.  Anyone have rules as to how long an affected target stays unconscious?

S-15. Spell of Windwalking

One of the shortest descriptions of any spell, which naturally provides the greatest number of possible interpretations.  What exactly is a "target" for this spell?  A person?  A dragon?  A mountain?  The distance traveled works out to be one mile + one additional mile per rank, if you continuously propel the target in the same direction for the entire duration.  Can you change directions?  Can the target be moved about in a circle?  How about straight up?  How about slammed repeatedly into the side of a castle wall or mountainside?  What's the damage for 120 MPH impacts into a stone wall?

S-16. Spell of Whirlwind Vortex

Isn't "whirlwind vortex" kind of redundant?   Anyway, I love the "you die, G.I." type of spell, even if the starting BC is 1%.  A particularly gruesome way to dispatch foes; battlefields (and combatants) tend to look like Jackson Pollack paintings if anyone fails his resistance roll.  You take damage even if you resist, although oddly, this whirlwind is not dirty and infectious. (It must clean like a white tornado…)

S-17. Spell of Frozen Doom

You die, G.I. part 2.  (And I thought it was good to have ice water in your veins…)

R-1. Ritual of Controlling Weather

The only spell I know in all of gamerdom that has specific guidelines for how much you can alter the temperature and barometric pressure.  However, these changes seem paltry compared to the twelve inches of precipitation you can dump on the area. I mean, you get a foot of rain on your house in one hour: you think you're going to care that the temperature went down by a few degrees, or that the barometer dropped under 29?  Do barometers even exist in most game worlds?  Does the character need a degree in meteorology to know how to manipulate these forces in such a way as to actually control the weather?

And… doesn't Q-2 let you control the weather?  How is that different than this?

R-2. Ritual of Summoning and Controlling Air Elemental

Along similar lines, the specifics of this and similar spells makes me wonder: if you use the Ritual of Binding Air to create an Air Elemental, haven't you basically performed the same ritual as this?  I mean, you have an air elemental, and it's bound, right?  What's the diff?

The only difference I can really see is that Q-2 has a limitation of Concentration/maximum 1 hour + 1 hour per rank, while R-2 is Concentration only. 

Group: DQ-RULES Message: 1190 From: igmod@comcast.net Date: 9/19/2007
Subject: Re: Part 2 - Humorous review of DQ Magic
I allow experienced PCs to be more subtle in their spell casting.  On the flip side, many an inexperienced Mage has come to an untimely demise as they become targets of preferred opportunity.  But even speaking clearly doesn't mean loudly.  In my campaigns it is the hand motions that give Mages away more often than speaking the spells.
 
~Jeffery~

I've always stressed that adepts have to speak clearly to cast a spell -- no muttering into your sleeve allowed.  How 'bout y'all?  in your games, how loud must an adept speak to cast a spell?

Group: DQ-RULES Message: 1191 From: Martin Gallo Date: 9/19/2007
Subject: Re: Part 3 - Humorous Review of DQ Magic
Good lists!

On Sep 19, 2007, at 1:36 PM, Ran Hardin wrote:

Rule 56: College of Air Magics

[56.2] The following numbers are added to the Base Chance of performing any talent, spell, or ritual of the College of Air Magics.

Caster occupies a mountain top

+20

Caster is underground or otherwise totally enclosed*

-15

Caster is only partially enclosed**

-5

*   Total enclosure is defined as being surrounded by walls or earth in a windowless area where there is no direct and immediate communication with the air outside.

**  Partial enclosure is defined as being in a cave or dwelling or similar walled or earth-enclosed area, but being in sight of a window or means of egress or other means of direct contact with the air outside. All modifiers are cumulative (DQ 2nd Edition Revised Version 2.19, p.53).

OK, what corporate lawyer wrote this? "…[B]eing in sight of a window or means of egress or other means of direct contact with the air outside."  Sheesh! (Can you have indirect contact with air? Anyway…)

I always assumed that this allowed a range of penalties and typically guesstimated the penalty based on distance from the window/door and how much airflow there was.

G-4. Spell of Communicating with Avians

OK, here's another spell where the name and description don't match.  The title says "avians."  The description says "flying creatures."  These are not congruent sets (the word "avian" means "pertaining to birds").  I've always assumed it really should be all flying creatures, since you have to figure they'd all have some kind of affinity with air, and hence subject to the spell.  As with all such spells, I'm not sure how much information you can get from a black-capped chickadee, but hey, it's your dime.

G-5. Wind Whistle Spell

OK, so with G-3, you get a guaranteed wind strength, and you can alter it's direction at will.  With this spell, not only do you have to wait for the wind to get there (what, is it taking a shower? It'swind), but it can only come from one direction, and you have a 25% chance of it being a wimpier wind than the Mage Wind spell.  So you have to eat all that for the chance that it might be a strong wind?  Hardly seems worth it.  I suppose the increased duration is helpful if your ship is going in a straight line, or if you want a nice breeze for your nap.

G-7. Spell of Summoning Avians

Again, we have the erroneous conflation of "avian" with "flying creature."  OK, I'll get over it.  Anyway, you get to summon something that flies.  (In the right ecosystem, this is also known as the "Spell of Summoning Dinner.")  Here we also have the infamous "if you can't whistle, your character can't cast the spell" idiocy.  All my copies of DQ have this crossed out.  That's like telling a fire mage player his character doesn't get a +20 unless he actually stands in a bonfire.  Even the justification for it is dumb.  You think the Air College didn't have Whistling classes in the curriculum? If you do enforce this rule, be sure to try and feed the player about to cast this spell some crackers…

What about a creature being levitated or launched by a catapult?

S-2. Spell of Storm Calling

Legitimate question: If the Adept moves after the storm arrives, does the storm front move, too, or does it stay put?

We always played that the storm was called to a spot (occupied by the adept at the time of the casting) rather than the adept.

S-3. Spell of Ice Construction

The upgraded version of Ice Creation, this spell put joy in my heart and fear in my GM's eyes.  10 cubic feet + another 10 per rank, in any shape or shapes I want.  I mean, where do I start?  A favorite: sending a barrage of bowling-ball-sized, spiked ice balls rolling down a steeply-slanted roof or hillside onto unwary enemies.  Ice marbles are great for making people slip and fall, and 10 cubic feet plus 10 per rank makes a mess of ice marbles.  Ice caltrops can stop a whole company of cavalry.  I even made an ice wheel (a series of them, actually), to replace a bad wheel on a wagon.  Also, tavern-owners pay premium prices for crushed ice in the summer time.

I always played this one such that the ice had to be contiguous - thus no marbles or cubes. Same with the other ice creation spells.

S-5. Spell of Freezing Wind

OK, so why is it that being damaged by a freezing wind increases your chances of getting infected?  Anybody?  ("Because it's magic, that's why…now shut it.")  Seriously, I don't get the whole cold = infectious equation.  Maybe it's a really dirty freezing wind…

Actually, cold related injuries do infect quite easily. I think it has to do with the fact that normally skin protects against infections, but cold  breaks down that barrier (literally).

S-11. Snow Simulacrum Spell

Man, if you thought Spell of Ice Construction was fun…  I was eternally upset with my GM who would not allow me to use Spell of Ice Construction to quickly whip up, say, an ice stone giant, and then animate it with this spell.  "It has to be made out of snow, not ice," he told me.  Picky SOB…  Anyway, the ramifications of this spell are astounding.  If your party has the time to sculpt a snow dragon or a snow giant, you can have a bit of fun (and many possible backfires from the low BC).  Beginners might want to go with a giant snow snake – they're much easier to sculpt.  I never got the chance to have my group actually go out in the snow and sculpt something, though – one of my fondest wishes.  The timing just never worked out.

Here's a few interesting questions that came up when I played an Air Mage: can snow spiders spin webs?  Are snow vipers poisonous?  Can you make a snow efreet?  Can you use Communicate with Avians to talk to a snow owl? (The answers I received were: No; no; yes, but it's basically just a normal dude; and yes.  This last one was useful for scouting and sending messages.)

No. All you are doing is animating something of that shape.

Group: DQ-RULES Message: 1192 From: Ran Hardin Date: 9/20/2007
Subject: Re: Part 2 - Humorous review of DQ Magic


Has anyone experimented with giving adepts casting options for XP expenditure?  For example, for, say 250 xp you can learn how to cast a certain spell without the hand gestures... I've considered it, but never implemented it.  it might be a nice bit of customization, giving adepts a chance to really become specialists at particular spells... but I'm sure there's the potential for abuse/unbalancing as well.

--- In dq-rules@yahoogroups.com, igmod@... wrote:
>
> I allow experienced PCs to be more subtle in their spell casting. On the flip side, many an inexperienced Mage has come to an untimely demise as they become targets of preferred opportunity. But even speaking clearly doesn't mean loudly. In my campaigns it is the hand motions that give Mages away more often than speaking the spells.
>
> ~Jeffery~
> I've always stressed that adepts have to speak clearly to cast a spell -- no muttering into your sleeve allowed. How 'bout y'all? in your games, how loud must an adept speak to cast a spell?
>

Group: DQ-RULES Message: 1193 From: Rodger Thorm Date: 9/20/2007
Subject: Re: Part 2 - Humorous review of DQ Magic
We instituted Quick Casting for adepts who had mastered (Rank 6+) a spell.
This allowed a caster to prepare and cast in the same Pulse, though with
a negative modifier on cast chance, so increased chances of backfires.
(The rules for this are in "Poor Brendan's Almanac" if you want to use
this yourself.)

I think that, once you reach mastery with a spell, there could be a number
of special abilities that could be added, including silent casting, as you
suggest. It's a customizing mechanic, but it would seem to fit in to the
general kit-of-parts approach that the rest of the magic system follows.

As a quick rule-of-thumb, I'd be tempted to say that you have to spend the
time and XP you would take for Rank 6 with the particular spell to learn a
special modification of the spell.

Sure, it could potentially be abused, but that's both why PCs would want
to be able to develop those specializations. If it gets out of hand,
don't forget, the GM controls more characters in the world than the PCs
do.

--Rodger

> Has anyone experimented with giving adepts casting options for XP
> expenditure? For example, for, say 250 xp you can learn how to cast a
> certain spell without the hand gestures... I've considered it, but never
> implemented it. it might be a nice bit of customization, giving adepts
> a chance to really become specialists at particular spells... but
> I'm sure there's the potential for abuse/unbalancing as well.
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 1194 From: Ran Hardin Date: 9/20/2007
Subject: Re: Part 3 - Humorous Review of DQ Magic


--- In dq-rules@yahoogroups.com, Martin Gallo <martimer@...> wrote:

> > air outside. All modifiers are cumulative (DQ 2nd Edition Revised
> > Version 2.19, p.53).
> >
> > OK, what corporate lawyer wrote this? "…[B]eing in sight of a
> > window or means of egress or other means of direct contact with the
> > air outside." Sheesh! (Can you have indirect contact with air?
> > Anyway…)


> I always assumed that this allowed a range of penalties and typically

> guesstimated the penalty based on distance from the window/door and
> how much airflow there was.

 

Yeah, I played it as a GM judgment call.  The wording is some hilarious (to me) legalese, though.



> > S-3. Spell of Ice Construction

> >
> > The upgraded version of Ice Creation, this spell put joy in my
> > heart and fear in my GM's eyes. 10 cubic feet + another 10 per
> > rank, in any shape or shapes I want. I mean, where do I start? A
> > favorite: sending a barrage of bowling-ball-sized, spiked ice balls
> > rolling down a steeply-slanted roof or hillside onto unwary
> > enemies. Ice marbles are great for making people slip and fall,
> > and 10 cubic feet plus 10 per rank makes a mess of ice marbles.
> > Ice caltrops can stop a whole company of cavalry. I even made an
> > ice wheel (a series of them, actually), to replace a bad wheel on a
> > wagon. Also, tavern-owners pay premium prices for crushed ice in
> > the summer time.


> I always played this one such that the ice had to be contiguous -

> thus no marbles or cubes. Same with the other ice creation spells.

 

Here's the wording of the spell: "The Adept may create 10 cubic feet of ice (+10 cubic feet per Rank) in any shape(s) of the Adept's choice. The objects always appear entirely within range of the Adept and may not appear on top of or inside (partially or wholly) any character or entity" (DQ 2nd Edition Revised Version 2.19, p. 54, emphasis mine).  I think the wording makes it clear that more than one thing can be created.  I think its intent is expressly different from other ice creation spells, hence the ability to create multiple objects – otherwise, it's just like Ice Creation, except that you make a lot more of it.

 

And, it's a whole lot less fun that way.  ;)

 


> > S-5. Spell of Freezing Wind

> >
> > OK, so why is it that being damaged by a freezing wind increases
> > your chances of getting infected? Anybody? ("Because it's magic,
> > that's why…now shut it.") Seriously, I don't get the whole cold =
> > infectious equation. Maybe it's a really dirty freezing wind…


> Actually, cold related injuries do infect quite easily. I think it

> has to do with the fact that normally skin protects against
> infections, but cold breaks down that barrier (literally).

 

Hmmm… I can see your point, definitely.  Sure, frostbite à necrotic tissue à infections.  Makes sense. 


> > S-11. Snow Simulacrum Spell

> >
> > Man, if you thought Spell of Ice Construction was fun… I was
> > eternally upset with my GM who would not allow me to use Spell of
> > Ice Construction to quickly whip up, say, an ice stone giant, and
> > then animate it with this spell. "It has to be made out of snow,
> > not ice," he told me. Picky SOB… Anyway, the ramifications of
> > this spell are astounding. If your party has the time to sculpt a
> > snow dragon or a snow giant, you can have a bit of fun (and many
> > possible backfires from the low BC). Beginners might want to go
> > with a giant snow snake – they're much easier to sculpt. I never
> > got the chance to have my group actually go out in the snow and
> > sculpt something, though – one of my fondest wishes. The timing
> > just never worked out.
> >
> > Here's a few interesting questions that came up when I played an
> > Air Mage: can snow spiders spin webs? Are snow vipers poisonous?
> > Can you make a snow efreet? Can you use Communicate with Avians to
> > talk to a snow owl? (The answers I received were: No; no; yes, but
> > it's basically just a normal dude; and yes. This last one was
> > useful for scouting and sending messages.)


> No. All you are doing is animating something of that shape.

Well, the world this character played in was, shall we say, rather towards the deep end of the chaotic spectrum, so this was a flavor thing on his part.  Or he was just feeling generous that night  ;)

Group: DQ-RULES Message: 1195 From: WAKEFIELD Leigh Date: 9/20/2007
Subject: Re: Part 3 - Humorous Review of DQ Magic
Just tie a heavy weight around their neck and throw them in the nearest river/lake/sea
 
Tends to break contact with air doesn't it?
 
Personally I have very fond memories of a mind mage using transmute on an enemy spellcaster.  Shocked that he succeeded the only thing he could think of to trasmute the guy into was a jelly doughnut......... which he stomped on.
 
Rather a waste of a good doughnut methinks!


From: dq-rules@yahoogroups.com [mailto:dq-rules@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ran Hardin
Sent: 20 September 2007 15:53
To: dq-rules@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [dq-rules] Re: Part 3 - Humorous Review of DQ Magic


--- In dq-rules@yahoogroup s.com, Martin Gallo <martimer@...> wrote:

> > air outside. All modifiers are cumulative (DQ 2nd
Edition Revised
> > Version 2.19, p.53).
> >
> > OK,
what corporate lawyer wrote this? "…[B]eing in sight of a
> > window
or means of egress or other means of direct contact with the
> > air
outside." Sheesh! (Can you have indirect contact with air?
> >
Anyway…)


> I always assumed that this allowed a range of penalties and typically

>
guesstimated the penalty based on distance from the window/door and
> how
much airflow there was.

Yeah, I played it as a GM judgment call.  The wording is some hilarious (to me) legalese, though.



>

> S-3. Spell of Ice Construction
> >
> > The upgraded
version of Ice Creation, this spell put joy in my
> > heart and fear
in my GM's eyes. 10 cubic feet + another 10 per
> > rank, in any shape
or shapes I want. I mean, where do I start? A
> > favorite: sending a
barrage of bowling-ball- sized, spiked ice balls
> > rolling down
a steeply-slanted roof or hillside onto unwary
> > enemies. Ice
marbles are great for making people slip and fall,
> > and 10 cubic
feet plus 10 per rank makes a mess of ice marbles.
> > Ice caltrops
can stop a whole company of cavalry. I even made an
> > ice wheel (a
series of them, actually), to replace a bad wheel on a
> > wagon.
Also, tavern-owners pay premium prices for crushed ice in
> > the
summer time.


> I always played this one such that the ice had to be contiguous -

> thus no
marbles or cubes. Same with the other ice creation spells.

Here's the wording of the spell: "The Adept may create 10 cubic feet of ice (+10 cubic feet per Rank) in any shape(s) of the Adept's choice. The objects always appear entirely within range of the Adept and may not appear on top of or inside (partially or wholly) any character or entity" (DQ 2nd Edition Revised Version 2.19, p. 54, emphasis mine).  I think the wording makes it clear that more than one thing can be created.  I think its intent is expressly different from other ice creation spells, hence the ability to create multiple objects – otherwise, it's just like Ice Creation, except that you make a lot more of it.

And, it's a whole lot less fun that way.  ;)


> > S-5. Spell of Freezing Wind

> >
> > OK, so why is it that
being damaged by a freezing wind increases
> > your chances of getting
infected? Anybody? ("Because it's magic,
> > that's why…now shut it.")
Seriously, I don't get the whole cold =
> > infectious equation. Maybe
it's a really dirty freezing wind…


> Actually, cold related injuries do infect quite easily. I think it

> has
to do with the fact that normally skin protects against
> infections, but
cold breaks down that barrier (literally).

Hmmm… I can see your point, definitely.  Sure, frostbite à necrotic tissue à infections.  Makes sense. 


> > S-11. Snow Simulacrum Spell

> >
> > Man, if you thought Spell
of Ice Construction was fun… I was
> > eternally upset with my GM who
would not allow me to use Spell of
> > Ice Construction to quickly
whip up, say, an ice stone giant, and
> > then animate it with this
spell. "It has to be made out of snow,
> > not ice," he told me. Picky
SOB… Anyway, the ramifications of
> > this spell are astounding. If
your party has the time to sculpt a
> > snow dragon or a snow giant,
you can have a bit of fun (and many
> > possible backfires from the
low BC). Beginners might want to go
> > with a giant snow snake –
they're much easier to sculpt. I never
> > got the chance to have my
group actually go out in the snow and
> > sculpt something, though –
one of my fondest wishes. The timing
> > just never worked
out.
> >
> > Here's a few interesting questions that came up
when I played an
> > Air Mage: can snow spiders spin webs? Are snow
vipers poisonous?
> > Can you make a snow efreet? Can you use
Communicate with Avians to
> > talk to a snow owl? (The answers I
received were: No; no; yes, but
> > it's basically just a normal dude;
and yes. This last one was
> > useful for scouting and sending
messages.)


> No. All you are doing is animating something of that shape.

Well, the world this character played in was, shall we say, rather towards the deep end of the chaotic spectrum, so this was a flavor thing on his part.  Or he was just feeling generous that night  ;)

Kohler Mira Limited, Registered Office: Cromwell Road, Cheltenham, Gloucestershire, GL52 5EP. Registered in England No. 252115
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 1196 From: Jason Winter Date: 9/20/2007
Subject: Re: Part 2 - Humorous review of DQ Magic
We have implemented the following rule in our game.  This is a talent that any mage can learn.

Sorcery
  Minimum requirement:  MA 20
  The mage gains 1 rank per level in the sorcery skill.  This ability allows the mage to use a spell for something other than its intended purpose.  For example, a spell that allows a mage to summon dogs could be used to summon a specific dog (say Ol Yeller).  Cast penalty is -20% and the mage's rank is equal to his rank with the spell or with this skill, whichever is lower.  A natural roll of 96 or greater results in an automatic roll on the Backfire Table.  A natural roll of 00 results in a roll on the Backfire Table at +50.


One note on the 1 rank per level reference.  In our campaign, your "level" is determined by your average rank in your top 22 spells (Yes if you don't have 22 spells, the others count as rank 0).  So if you have an average of rank 4 in your spells, you would be 4th level in relation to the above talent. 

On Sep 20, 2007, at 9:01 AM, Ran Hardin wrote:



Has anyone experimented with giving adepts casting options for XP expenditure?  For example, for, say 250 xp you can learn how to cast a certain spell without the hand gestures... I've considered it, but never implemented it.  it might be a nice bit of customization, giving adepts a chance to really become specialists at particular spells... but I'm sure there's the potential for abuse/unbalancing as well.

--- In dq-rules@yahoogroups.com, igmod@... wrote:
>
> I allow experienced PCs to be more subtle in their spell casting. On the flip side, many an inexperienced Mage has come to an untimely demise as they become targets of preferred opportunity. But even speaking clearly doesn't mean loudly. In my campaigns it is the hand motions that give Mages away more often than speaking the spells.
>
> ~Jeffery~
> I've always stressed that adepts have to speak clearly to cast a spell -- no muttering into your sleeve allowed. How 'bout y'all? in your games, how loud must an adept speak to cast a spell?
>




Group: DQ-RULES Message: 1197 From: Chris C Date: 9/21/2007
Subject: Poison RULES
I am curious, on some creatures (such as regular snakes) the rules do
not specify how long the poison lasts. Does that mean it lasts until
you either get an antidote or die?

From some nasty creatures the rules state that their nasty poisons
last 1d10 or sometimes 1d5 rounds. I decided to rule that if the
poison doesn't specify, it therefore lasts 1d10 rounds.

Or are asps (unlimited by either a rules omission or by
design)supposed to have more potent poison than a Hydra (1d0 pulse
duration)? I would think that a Hydra's poison would be at least as
powerful as an asps.

How are some of you folks ruling on this?
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 1198 From: Ran Hardin Date: 9/21/2007
Subject: Re: Poison RULES

I think all the poisonous snakes are like that, aren't they?  I've always thought the implication was that if you got bitten by one these babies and didn't get the antidote, you would simply die, because they're that damn poisonous -- although I don't know why a hydra's venom wouldn't do the same.

--- In dq-rules@yahoogroups.com, "Chris C" <cccurlee@...> wrote:
>
> I am curious, on some creatures (such as regular snakes) the rules do
> not specify how long the poison lasts. Does that mean it lasts until
> you either get an antidote or die?
>
> From some nasty creatures the rules state that their nasty poisons
> last 1d10 or sometimes 1d5 rounds. I decided to rule that if the
> poison doesn't specify, it therefore lasts 1d10 rounds.
>
> Or are asps (unlimited by either a rules omission or by
> design)supposed to have more potent poison than a Hydra (1d0 pulse
> duration)? I would think that a Hydra's poison would be at least as
> powerful as an asps.
>
> How are some of you folks ruling on this?
>

Group: DQ-RULES Message: 1199 From: Mandos Mitchinson Date: 9/21/2007
Subject: Re: Poison RULES
Personally I always thought that a simply D Damage per pulse was a pretty
bad way to do poisons and so came up with my own method. My focus was that
those with High Endurance should fare better than those with a low endurance
but still be affected to some extent.

So here is my solution.

Poisons are assigned a starting value dependant on their potency. If a
person is affected by the poison they roll against endurance working out how
many times endurance it is i.e. 2xEnd 3xEnd etc. This value is then added to
the poison and is the damage done.

So with a poison value of 3 Wolf the hardy Barbarian rolls a 63 with an
endurance of 20 which is four times his endurance and takes 7 points of
damage.

Each pulse the poison has effect the value of the poison is reduced,
generally by 1 but other values work if you want a short acting poison. If
at any point the value of Poison + Roll = 0 or less the poison has worked
its way through the body and is no longer effective.

If the person gets a second dose of the poison it simply returns the value
to the starting one.

It is hard to put is writing but works very well.

Mandos
/s
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 1200 From: Martin Gallo Date: 9/22/2007
Subject: Re: Poison RULES
I am not a reptile or venom expert so anything I post is based on the
little bit of research I have done through the years (I did major in
biology for a year, so I know a little and have forgotten much).

In general, EN has little to do with survival since the action of
most venom is either to specific nerve or tissue function - What
seems to matter more is body mass vs. concentration, amount and
action of the venom. For venom affecting nerve functions you are
either paralyzed or not and the paralyzation may be limited to
voluntary muscle control or some other aspect (breathing, heart beat,
etc.). Fr venom affecting tissue functions the affected tissue starts
to die and can be muscle or internal organ failure. The venom may
also affect different animals differently. It is a wildly complicated
topic, actually. Note also that some people seem to have a "natural
immunity" of sorts while others are "highly susceptible to venom.
Thus, a smaller person may survive the same bite from a snake that
might kill a larger person.

Thus depending on the snake, the target and the size of the person
and the person's reaction to the venom of that snake the venom can
last well beyond the death of the target, and so not having a
duration is appropriate in some cases. In reality very few venoms
actually have a duration - many people survive rattlesnake bites.

I have never been bitten by a venomous snake, but I have been stung
by bees and bitten by black widow spiders. Completely different
venoms, but it illustrates the point I am attempting to make. I am
allergic to bees. One more sting and I am likely to die without
intervention (yes I have an epi-pen and avoid areas with bees). Black
widows only leave a welt somewhat larger than a mosquito bite. Yet
there are plenty of people who survive bee stings and die from black
widow bites every year.

So the duration rules are a compromise to reflect the reality of some
of the situation. Also, a lot easier for a GM to game and player's to
track. Is your character immune to rattlesnakes, or will he get sick
or cramp up or die?

Marty

P.S. My pet king snake died last night. Non-venomous, but it hits
close to home. If this post seems sort of rambly, I am sorry.

On Sep 21, 2007, at 3:45 PM, Mandos Mitchinson wrote:

>
> Personally I always thought that a simply D Damage per pulse was a
> pretty
> bad way to do poisons and so came up with my own method. My focus
> was that
> those with High Endurance should fare better than those with a low
> endurance
> but still be affected to some extent.
>
> So here is my solution.
>
> Poisons are assigned a starting value dependant on their potency. If a
> person is affected by the poison they roll against endurance
> working out how
> many times endurance it is i.e. 2xEnd 3xEnd etc. This value is then
> added to
> the poison and is the damage done.
>
> So with a poison value of 3 Wolf the hardy Barbarian rolls a 63
> with an
> endurance of 20 which is four times his endurance and takes 7
> points of
> damage.
>
> Each pulse the poison has effect the value of the poison is reduced,
> generally by 1 but other values work if you want a short acting
> poison. If
> at any point the value of Poison + Roll = 0 or less the poison has
> worked
> its way through the body and is no longer effective.
>
> If the person gets a second dose of the poison it simply returns
> the value
> to the starting one.
>
> It is hard to put is writing but works very well.
>
> Mandos
> /s
>
>
>
> To Post a message, send it to: dq-rules@eGroups.com
> To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: dq-rules-
> unsubscribe@eGroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 1201 From: Ran Hardin Date: 9/24/2007
Subject: Part 4 - Humorous review of DQ magic

Rule 57: The College of Water Magics

Obviously, if you aren't in a game where bodies of water are ubiquitous, you don't want to play a Water Mage.  However, if your game world is a bunch of islands, or your groups decides to become pirates, it's loads of fun to be a Water Mage.  I've played one once, in a game where the regional economy was based around the slow, massive river that ran through the middle of everything, much the Mississippi River , emptying into a ocean with lots of marshlands around.  He was a very useful and sometimes powerful character.

My general house rule is to replace the word "sea" in all spell names with "water."  My Midwestern bias says "Hey, there'd have to be plenty of Water Mages nowhere near the sea, so this should apply to Freshwater Mages, too."

T-1.  Predict Weather

ABC.  And still worthless.

G-1.  Spell of Calming Waters

I have to admit I didn't know the difference between a wave and a swell before I looked it up.  Now that I've looked it up… I still don't know.  Most dictionaries use the word "wave" when describing a swell, so who knows?  My guess is that a wave is a particular water formation, above the level of the rest of the sea, and a swell is the heaving of a more general "section" of sea.  But maybe someone who's been near an ocean for more than a few hours at a time can enlighten me?

G-2.  Spell of Wave Making

A deceptively powerful spell.  You can really mess someone up with this spell.  Fer instance…

DEMONIC FUN: A demon can increase the size of a wave by twenty-five feet.  He can keep the waves at that height for five hours, with a range of 1,950 feet (a bit over 1/3 of a mile).  Incredibly destructive.  Do not mess with Forneus.

G-3.  Spell of Speaking to Seabirds (Waterbirds)

While much more restrictive than other colleges' Dr. Doolittle spells, this one could be a lifesaver:  "Which way is land?" 

G-4.  Spell of Flotation

Target's ability to swim is increased by 50%.  Chance of drowning is decreased by 5% + 1% per Rank.  Ummm… Swimming rules?  What swimming rules?  Fortunately, there are plenty of house rules floating around out there (Hah.  "Floating."  Man, I slay me…)

G-5.  Spell of Navigation

More decrease in chances for things that don't have rules written for them.  Actually, this brings up an interesting point about the way role-playing games have changed over the decades – specifically, how the way we play RPGs has changed.  I'm sure you've had some exposure to game theory, and while over-exposure to game theory can give you a nasty rash, its tenets sometimes cast interesting light on older games. 

Even though there are no explicit rules in DQ for determining the base chance for running aground, this spell implies that here should be.  In other words, running aground is a random event, not a narrational one.  Now, if I'm GMing, and I decided that the PCs' ship is running aground on the spooky island so they have to go ashore and deal with the arcane weirdness there, no amount of spellcasting is going to change that.  The rest of the time, I don't really care if they run aground or not.  My stance on this means that the need for this spell is obviated.  So how many other spells might be reduced in usefulness because of the difference between narrativist and gamist stances?

G-6.  Water Purification Spell

Very handy at sea, or maybe next to a salt lake.  Again, kind of a misnomer.  It doesn't purify water, it desalinizes it.  I houseruled this to be able to purify any water, which I think brings the spell into line with S-1 Liquid Purification.  With this houserule, you can make nasty swamp water or even sewer water safe to drink, which I think any self-respecting Water Mage should be able to do.

G-7.  Spell Of Speaking With Aquatic Mammals

C'mon, they couldn't have just combined this with G-3?  One advantage here is the possibility of speaking with fairly intelligent creatures, like whales or dolphins.

G-8.  Spell of Summoning Aquatic Mammals

Similar to other summoning spells.  If you're currying favor with a whaling ship, this is the spell for you ("Here, Moby…")

G-9.  Mage Wind Spell

ABC.

G-10.  Spell of Water Creation

Another misnomer.  You don't create water, you extract it from the air or from plants.  (would it have been so hard to call it "Spell of Water Extraction?")  In a truly arid desert, this spell is worthless, but if you're a Water Mage and your ass is in the desert, you get what's coming to you.  I house ruled that you could extract water from anything that had water in it and wasn't sentient.  Recently dead humanoids have plenty of water in them, by the way…

G-11.  Spell of Water Sight

A goggles spell!  Dippy, but fun and occasionally useful.

G-12.  Spell Of Water Breathing

Since the spell cannot be resisted, this spell is great fun when cast on random passers-by in isolated, superstitious  communities ("Hey!  Ol' Bromo gots gills!  He's a demon!  Kill him!")

G-13.  Spell of Ship Binding

Taken pretty much verbatim from A Wizard of Earthsea.  A pretty powerful spell, really, especially if your game goes long enough to crank it up to rank 15, when you get to make a boat from scrap wood.

G-14.  Spell of Seablessing (Waterblessing)

Nice – but how do you prove you've actually done anything?  "I bestow upon you this arcane blessing!"  "Sure you did, bud, sure you did…"

Q-1.  Ritual Of Binding Water

Again, the loose language of the binding rituals.  Given the peculiarities and ubiquity of water, what are the limits of controlling "all facets of the element?"  Can I turn the bound element into ice?  Steam?  Snow?  Mist?  Ice-9?  Can I encase an enemy in a water-helmet, causing him to drown?  Can I control the water in his body?  Can I have the water change into mist, float through the air, and then fill my hot tub? I like that the idea is open-ended, but a little more guidance would have been nice…

S-1.  Spell of Liquid Purification

(aka The Reverse Jesus Spell)

Super-handy spell.  Great for ruining taverns and parties, or drinking your own urine while adrift at sea.

S-2.  Spell of Liquid Transmutation

A somewhat misleading name, I feel, but a powerful effect – it causes any venom to become inactive.

S-3.  Waters of Healing Spell

A spell of making healing potions.  Water Mage + Alchemist = Good.

S-4.  Waters of Strength Spell

Wow.  D+2 added to ST.  That can boost a human into the giant range.  I think this spell would be a bit better with a predictable increase, say 3 points + 1 per rank or something.

S-5.  Spell of Summoning Fish

"Here, fishy fishy…"

S-6.  Spell of Controlling Fish

"Now, baste yourself with butter and lemon, and jump into my Weber…"

I've always played it so that any non-avian, non-mammalian aquatic creature can be summoned and/or controlled.  C'mon, you can summon and control a whale shark, but not a brine shrimp?

S-7.  Spell of Controlling Sea Mammals (Water Mammals)

Anyone else getting an Aquaman vibe from this college?  The paltry range indicates that if you summon a whale to do your bidding, he will come back to kick your ass later. (Freshwater mages have to make do with otters and the like…)

S-8.  Waters of Vision Spell

Neat-o spell, but it only lasts 10 seconds.  Still, at rank 5+, it ceases to be random precognition, and becomes a scrying spell.  Now, define "pool" for me… How deep?  How big? 

S-9.  Windsail Spell

I'm not sure how you turn a mess of water sprites into a sail, but there you go.  It must be an interesting visual. (And again, the assumption made by the designer is that all elements are full of spirits…) I can't see much use for this unless you wanted to run in front of a hurricane – can you imagine a Viking longship going 40 knots or so?

S-10.  Spell of Rain Calling

I'm not sure why you'd want a localized squall following you for a day, but there you go… maybe to hide in? (Although if your pursuit knows you're in there, then they just follow the squall…)

S-11.  Maelstrom Spell

Now, if you're aboard ship, does everyone on the ship resist individually, or does only the ship itself get a resistance roll?

S-12.  Waterspout Spell

And you thought Water Mages had no teeth?  This is effectively a version of the Whirlwind Spell, but watered-down (I got a million of `em…).  Actually it's not: you just get one big vortex instead of multiple small ones.  You still get to destroy people and scatter their bloody pieces to the winds.

R-1.  Ritual of Summoning and Binding Water Elementals

Similar to other such rituals.

Final Notes: Can you believe there's not a Spell of Drowning?  How about a Spell of Water-Walking?  Or Surfing?

Group: DQ-RULES Message: 1202 From: dennisnordling Date: 9/24/2007
Subject: Re: Humorous review of DQ magic (Spell of Walking Unseen)
Our group handled the differences between the spells of "Walking
Unseen" and "Invisibility" by changing the "Spell of Walking Unseen".

The change was simple; Walking Unseen increases a character's Stealth
(and almost nothing more than that). The increase is normally the
adept's casting chance ([Spell's base chance] + [3×Rank] + [MA
adjustment]); this is important for our group when double or tripple
effects are rolled and the Adept chooses to increase the Stealth Add.

If the character chooses not to use the natural stealth, then ONLY the
magical stealth is used. Most commonly, this comes into play when the
character does not wish to travel at half TMR.

Note: For our group Double and Tripple effects, are calculated by
multiplying only the Rank, and not the total. Otherwise, spells like
Walking Unseen the doubled effect Stealth for an A&E Adept at Rank 10
(if the adept has a 15 MA), Could be 140 rather than 100. Our group
found this gives us more balanced play. Using this method our group
allows any calculation with a Rank component to be doubled or trippled.
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 1203 From: Mandos Mitchinson Date: 9/24/2007
Subject: Re: Humorous review of DQ magic (Spell of Walking Unseen)
> Note: For our group Double and Tripple effects, are calculated by
> multiplying only the Rank, and not the total. Otherwise, spells like
> Walking Unseen the doubled effect Stealth for an A&E Adept at Rank 10
> (if the adept has a 15 MA), Could be 140 rather than 100. Our group
> found this gives us more balanced play. Using this method our group
> allows any calculation with a Rank component to be doubled or trippled.

How do you Handle issues like Lesser Enchantment being permenant at Rank 20.
Under your rules as I understand it they would become permanent after a
Triple effect Rk 7. And as such there would be no further reason to rank the
spell.

Mandos
/s
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 1204 From: dennisnordling Date: 9/25/2007
Subject: Re: Humorous review of DQ magic (Spell of Walking Unseen)
Oddly enough this specific issue has never come up in our group.

With other spells and riturals with simular rank-range effects, our
group has always treated double/tripple effects as ONLY magnification
of abilities currently available. (i.e. for the A&E "Spell of
Invisibility" we don't allow for double/tripple of rank to count
towards the over rank 15 [attacking and remaining invisible], nor do
we allow for the A&E "Spell of Enchanting Armor" double/tripple
effect to count towards the Rank 11 and above [absorb an additional
point of damage]).

The question relating to Lesser Enchantment is basically the same
thing, but I would have to ask our group and get a rule ruling to be
sure; there is a point that in the book version that the time would
just be doubled and that is that, and that our method did open a
problem where none existed before.

--- In dq-rules@yahoogroups.com, "Mandos Mitchinson" <mandos@...>
wrote:
>
> How do you Handle issues like Lesser Enchantment being permenant at
Rank 20.
> Under your rules as I understand it they would become permanent
after a
> Triple effect Rk 7. And as such there would be no further reason to
rank the
> spell.
>
> Mandos
> /s
>
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 1205 From: Ran Hardin Date: 9/26/2007
Subject: Part 5 - Humorous review of DQ magic

Rule 58: College Of Fire Magics
(aka "How many different ways can we cause 3rd-degree burns?")

Who hasn't had the fun, if only once, of playing a Fire Mage? This was by far the most popular college in my gaming group, mostly because Fire Mage = walking flame-thrower.  "Fire is good; fire is our friend."

T-1 Infravision

A nice idea, but this needs a serious re-write.  First of all, the BC is low.  It's a talent, for cryin' out loud, not a double-digit special knowledge spell.  Secondly, it can be actively resisted?  How in the world do you actively resist having someone look at your heat signature?  Are you supposed to be sending out little magical waves of heat confusion?  Thirdly, if the Adept is successful with the talent, he learns not only the species/general nature of the object, but also whether it's magical.  So magical things give out magic heat?  I don't get it.

G-1. Spell of Pyrogenesis

Such an elegant term for giving someone a hotfoot.  While the notes indicate that the spell is not intended for use against human-size characters, couldn't it be used to set someone's hair on fire?  How about if they're wearing the skins of small furry animals? 

INTERESTING ASSUMPTIONS DEPT: The note also gives "light matches" as an example of what the spell can do.  Matches are a 19th century invention, which makes me wonder at what tech level this designer saw a typical DQ world.  From the details of the Mechanician skill, and the curious range of social classes available, it's evident that, from a technical standpoint, the designers saw DQ as more of an early Renaissance game (sans gunpowder) than the typically medieval D&D et al. 

I decided that my world had matches, although they were not 100% reliable.  I called them "Belials" to riff on the term "Lucifers" used for the highly sulfurous matches of older times.

One final question: Why would you need a spell to light a match?  Just scratch it across your hauberk and get on with it.

G-2. Spell of Heat Production

Blacksmiths love this spell; men in metal armor do not.  Can anyone tell me how other metals heat up "accordingly" with the benchmark for bronze given.  Does steel heat up faster or slower than bronze?  How about silver?  Gold?  Iron?

G-3. Spell of Fire Resistance

The benefits of this spell are limited, even with several ranks.  I say you're better off pumping your XP into the Spell of Protection from Magical Fire, although the much higher BC of this spell makes it more palatable to some.

G-4. Spell of Light

Necessary spell, although I think the volume illuminated should go up by 100 cubic feet or so per rank.

G-5. Spell of Temperature Alteration

Interesting note about this spell: it states that while the range is "touch" (which usually indicates a successful Strike Check must be made), this spell states that the touching is part of the spell casting process. In other words, if you roll well enough to cast the spell, it's assumed you touched the target.  Odd, isn't it?

G-6. Wall of Smoke Spell

Something of a misnomer.  The Air Magics equivalent is called "Spell of Conjuring Mist," which is a bit more apropos.  You can have the same fun with both spells.

G-7. Spell of Fireproofing

Rule 1 in Fire Mage school:  "ALWAYS have the Spell of Fireproofing up at ALL times."  That way, when trouble starts you can hop into the nearest medium fire and get that tasty +10 right away.  Plus, it's fun to freak out the local hoopleheads by warming your hands IN the fireplace.  It's also a great way to get rid of lice, fleas, ticks, and other parasites.  God, being  Fire Mage is fun.

G-8. Spell of Protection Against Magical Fire

Don't go dragon-hunting without it.  Does this spell protect the caster from damage incurred by his own backfires?  I ruled that it did, if only because the BC is so low, you risk incurring backfire by casting it, and I like to reward bravery.

Q-1. Ritual of Binding Fire

OK, I won't go on about the whole "binding" thing again, except to mention that our long-standing party's fire mage used to get into it with the GM over this ritual a lot.  He claimed that he should be able to carry a bound fire in his backpack.

Ken: (playing said Fire Mage):I have it bound; I'll just order it not to burn the backpack.
Pete (long-suffering GM): No.

Actually, I always though that should work.  Throw a burning log into your backpack, and tell the bound element to allow just enough heat to escape to affect the backpack to keep you nice and toasty warm on those cold winter days… Hey, if you can control all facets of the element, that should include the direction of radiant heat, right?

DEMONIC FUN: A demon can cause a bound fire to become 400 times larger than it originally was.  I actually used this idea once, involving a nasty Adept who summoned Avnas or someone like that, and was setting large fires across the city by having the demon use this trick.  A demon could also create a fire elemental that could not only toast you in about three seconds, but could also whup your ass in chess.

S-1. Wall of Fire Spell

I house ruled that most animals should roll on the Fright Table when one of these pops up, including animals owned by the party to which the Fire Mage belonged.

S-2. Bolt of Fire Spell

Here we go with the damage spells, starting with the cheapest and most user-friendly.  This spell also has the advantage of setting the target on fire if he really blows his resistance roll.  Spectacular.

S-3. Ball of Fire Spell

An improvement over the D&D equivalent, in that it doesn't expand to 10,000,000 cubic feet and fry everything in an entire dungeon level.

S-4. Web of Fire Spell

A piece of nastiness.  Not only are you restrained, you're also getting burned to death.  Great for zombie hordes.  Or hordes of anything, except maybe salamanders.

S-5. Spell of Self-Immolation

"I am the Dread Pirate Roberts!"  Another misnomer, as the spell can also be cast on someone else.  Strange fact: the target is "temporarily unaffected by heat or flames of a magical nature."  However, the target also takes D-4 damage from the spell.  But isn't it creating heat and flames of a magical nature?  Maybe it takes just a quick second for the immunity to kick in, and the target gets scorched in that time…

S-6 Imploding Fireball Spell

Fire Damage Spell variation #573.  What's the point?

S-7 Weapon of Flames Spell

I love creating nasty weapons from nothing!  Very impressive.  Fire Mages have great visuals.

DEMONIC FUN: Since you can use the Fire College 's version of this spell to create missile weapons, too, how about a Fiery Long Bow? (BC 76, damage +11, assumed chance of setting flammable targets on fire.)

S-8 Demonic Firebolt Spell

Is this necessary?  Just pump up ranks in regular Bolt of Fire.

S-9 Spell of Hellfire

Variation #739.  The one drawback to this college is these infinite permutations.

S-10 Spell of Dragon Flames

The most popular spell in the entire college. D+1 plus four per rank damage?  Insane.

DEMONIC FUN: The spell does D+81 damage when cast by a demon.

S-11 Web of Dragon Flames Spell

Brutal at high ranks; save only reduces damage by half.

S-12 Storm of Fire

Three overlapping fireballs.   I wonder if the next spell will also be a damage spell?

S-13 Malignant Flames Spell

It eats up characteristics.  Ouch.  Can you imagine a dungeon full of wards with this spell on the trigger?

S-14 Spell of Incineration

Whoof. You're dead.  God, I love these.  So tempting, and yet so easy to backfire and affect your friends, or yourself, or some random joe on the street.

S-15 Spell of Summoning Salamander

Why would you ever do this?  I guess it's for those occasions where you need a really BIG distraction, like everything in the area getting set ablaze.

S-16 Spell of Summoning Efreet

This is powerful.  It's also one of the very few summoning spells where the summoned entity is of a helpful disposition.  I'd imagine that an Adept player who over-used this spell would start finding the efreeti rather less kindly disposed …

R-1 Ritual of Summoning and Controlling Fire Elemental

I've made my comments on this type of ritual elsewhere.

Sadly lacking from this college is a spell for controlling fires.  Sure, binding fire is nice when you have the time for the ritual, but if your horse kicks over your lantern and sets your barn on fire, you don't have time to dig out the powdered agrimony or whatever.  Here's my suggestion:

G-9 Spell of Controlling Normal Fires

Range: 15 feet plus 15 feet per rank

Duration: Concentration (Maximum of five minutes plus five per rank)

Experience Multiple: 225

Base Chance: 25%

Resist: N/A

Effects: The caster may control the actions of a normal (i.e. non-magical) fire. He may decrease or snuff out the fire, or cause it to move along a certain path (provided that the path contains combustible materials to sustain the fire).  The size of fire the Adept may control is dependent on his rank with the spell:

0-3 torch, lantern

4-6 small campfire

7-9 bonfire

10-14 house fire

15+ GM's discretion (may include forest fires, town/city fire, etc.)

Group: DQ-RULES Message: 1206 From: Mornak Date: 9/26/2007
Subject: Re: Part 5 - Humorous review of DQ magic
Very fun comments Ran!

But I don't agree with S-9

S-9 Spell of Hellfire

Variation #739.  The one drawback to this college is these infinite permutations.

In my opinion it's a powerful spell because it affects many targets. And it's damage is pretty good.
I always wonder if instead of hitting 3 targets, you can hit the same target 3 times

Regards (from Argentina)





On 9/26/07, Ran Hardin <dantalion64@excite.com> wrote:

Rule 58: College Of Fire Magics
(aka "How many different ways can we cause 3rd-degree burns?")

Who hasn't had the fun, if only once, of playing a Fire Mage? This was by far the most popular college in my gaming group, mostly because Fire Mage = walking flame-thrower.  "Fire is good; fire is our friend."

T-1 Infravision

A nice idea, but this needs a serious re-write.  First of all, the BC is low.  It's a talent, for cryin' out loud, not a double-digit special knowledge spell.   Secondly, it can be actively resisted?  How in the world do you actively resist having someone look at your heat signature?  Are you supposed to be sending out little magical waves of heat confusion?   Thirdly, if the Adept is successful with the talent, he learns not only the species/general nature of the object, but also whether it's magical.  So magical things give out magic heat?   I don't get it.

G-1. Spell of Pyrogenesis

Such an elegant term for giving someone a hotfoot.  While the notes indicate that the spell is not intended for use against human-size characters, couldn't it be used to set someone's hair on fire?   How about if they're wearing the skins of small furry animals? 

INTERESTING ASSUMPTIONS DEPT: The note also gives "light matches" as an example of what the spell can do.  Matches are a 19th century invention, which makes me wonder at what tech level this designer saw a typical DQ world.   From the details of the Mechanician skill, and the curious range of social classes available, it's evident that, from a technical standpoint, the designers saw DQ as more of an early Renaissance game ( sans gunpowder) than the typically medieval D&D et al. 

I decided that my world had matches, although they were not 100% reliable.  I called them "Belials" to riff on the term "Lucifers" used for the highly sulfurous matches of older times.

One final question: Why would you need a spell to light a match?  Just scratch it across your hauberk and get on with it.

G-2. Spell of Heat Production

Blacksmiths love this spell; men in metal armor do not.  Can anyone tell me how other metals heat up "accordingly" with the benchmark for bronze given.  Does steel heat up faster or slower than bronze?  How about silver?  Gold?  Iron?

G-3. Spell of Fire Resistance

The benefits of this spell are limited, even with several ranks.  I say you're better off pumping your XP into the Spell of Protection from Magical Fire, although the much higher BC of this spell makes it more palatable to some.

G-4. Spell of Light

Necessary spell, although I think the volume illuminated should go up by 100 cubic feet or so per rank.

G-5. Spell of Temperature Alteration

Interesting note about this spell: it states that while the range is "touch" (which usually indicates a successful Strike Check must be made), this spell states that the touching is part of the spell casting process. In other words, if you roll well enough to cast the spell, it's assumed you touched the target.   Odd, isn't it?

G-6. Wall of Smoke Spell

Something of a misnomer.  The Air Magics equivalent is called "Spell of Conjuring Mist," which is a bit more apropos.  You can have the same fun with both spells.

G-7. Spell of Fireproofing

Rule 1 in Fire Mage school:  "ALWAYS have the Spell of Fireproofing up at ALL times."  That way, when trouble starts you can hop into the nearest medium fire and get that tasty +10 right away.   Plus, it's fun to freak out the local hoopleheads by warming your hands IN the fireplace.  It's also a great way to get rid of lice, fleas, ticks, and other parasites.  God, being   Fire Mage is fun.

G-8. Spell of Protection Against Magical Fire

Don't go dragon-hunting without it.  Does this spell protect the caster from damage incurred by his own backfires?  I ruled that it did, if only because the BC is so low, you risk incurring backfire by casting it, and I like to reward bravery.

Q-1. Ritual of Binding Fire

OK, I won't go on about the whole "binding" thing again, except to mention that our long-standing party's fire mage used to get into it with the GM over this ritual a lot.   He claimed that he should be able to carry a bound fire in his backpack.

Ken: (playing said Fire Mage):I have it bound; I'll just order it not to burn the backpack.
Pete (long-suffering GM): No.

Actually, I always though that should work.  Throw a burning log into your backpack, and tell the bound element to allow just enough heat to escape to affect the backpack to keep you nice and toasty warm on those cold winter days… Hey, if you can control all facets of the element, that should include the direction of radiant heat, right?

DEMONIC FUN: A demon can cause a bound fire to become 400 times larger than it originally was.  I actually used this idea once, involving a nasty Adept who summoned Avnas or someone like that, and was setting large fires across the city by having the demon use this trick.   A demon could also create a fire elemental that could not only toast you in about three seconds, but could also whup your ass in chess.

S-1. Wall of Fire Spell

I house ruled that most animals should roll on the Fright Table when one of these pops up, including animals owned by the party to which the Fire Mage belonged.

S-2. Bolt of Fire Spell

Here we go with the damage spells, starting with the cheapest and most user-friendly.  This spell also has the advantage of setting the target on fire if he really blows his resistance roll.   Spectacular.

S-3. Ball of Fire Spell

An improvement over the D&D equivalent, in that it doesn't expand to 10,000,000 cubic feet and fry everything in an entire dungeon level.

S-4. Web of Fire Spell

A piece of nastiness.  Not only are you restrained, you're also getting burned to death.  Great for zombie hordes.  Or hordes of anything, except maybe salamanders.

S-5. Spell of Self-Immolation

"I am the Dread Pirate Roberts!"  Another misnomer, as the spell can also be cast on someone else.  Strange fact: the target is "temporarily unaffected by heat or flames of a magical nature."   However, the target also takes D-4 damage from the spell.  But isn't it creating heat and flames of a magical nature?  Maybe it takes just a quick second for the immunity to kick in, and the target gets scorched in that time…

S-6 Imploding Fireball Spell

Fire Damage Spell variation #573.  What's the point?

S-7 Weapon of Flames Spell

I love creating nasty weapons from nothing!  Very impressive.  Fire Mages have great visuals.

DEMONIC FUN: Since you can use the Fire College's version of this spell to create missile weapons, too, how about a Fiery Long Bow? (BC 76, damage +11, assumed chance of setting flammable targets on fire.)

S-8 Demonic Firebolt Spell

Is this necessary?  Just pump up ranks in regular Bolt of Fire.


S-10 Spell of Dragon Flames

The most popular spell in the entire college. D+1 plus four per rank damage?  Insane.

DEMONIC FUN: The spell does D+81 damage when cast by a demon.

S-11 Web of Dragon Flames Spell

Brutal at high ranks; save only reduces damage by half.

S-12 Storm of Fire

Three overlapping fireballs.   I wonder if the next spell will also be a damage spell?

S-13 Malignant Flames Spell

It eats up characteristics.  Ouch.  Can you imagine a dungeon full of wards with this spell on the trigger?

S-14 Spell of Incineration

Whoof. You're dead.  God, I love these.  So tempting, and yet so easy to backfire and affect your friends, or yourself, or some random joe on the street.

S-15 Spell of Summoning Salamander

Why would you ever do this?  I guess it's for those occasions where you need a really BIG distraction, like everything in the area getting set ablaze.

S-16 Spell of Summoning Efreet

This is powerful.  It's also one of the very few summoning spells where the summoned entity is of a helpful disposition.  I'd imagine that an Adept player who over-used this spell would start finding the efreeti rather less kindly disposed …

R-1 Ritual of Summoning and Controlling Fire Elemental

I've made my comments on this type of ritual elsewhere.

Sadly lacking from this college is a spell for controlling fires.  Sure, binding fire is nice when you have the time for the ritual, but if your horse kicks over your lantern and sets your barn on fire, you don't have time to dig out the powdered agrimony or whatever.   Here's my suggestion:

G-9 Spell of Controlling Normal Fires

Range: 15 feet plus 15 feet per rank

Duration: Concentration (Maximum of five minutes plus five per rank)

Experience Multiple: 225

Base Chance: 25%

Resist: N/A

Effects: The caster may control the actions of a normal (i.e. non-magical) fire. He may decrease or snuff out the fire, or cause it to move along a certain path (provided that the path contains combustible materials to sustain the fire).   The size of fire the Adept may control is dependent on his rank with the spell:

0-3 torch, lantern

4-6 small campfire

7-9 bonfire

10-14 house fire

15+ GM's discretion (may include forest fires, town/city fire, etc.)


Group: DQ-RULES Message: 1207 From: Jeffery K. McGonagill Date: 9/26/2007
Subject: Re: Part 5 - Humorous review of DQ magic
"Fire Mages are always in heat." 
Adventurers Guild, Book of Lore (or How to Stay Alive), Volume I

Rule 58: College Of Fire Magics
(aka "How many different ways can we cause 3rd-degree burns?")

Who hasn't had the fun, if only once, of playing a Fire Mage? This was by far the most popular college in my gaming group, mostly because Fire Mage = walking flame-thrower.  "Fire is good; fire is our friend."

T-1 Infravision

A nice idea, but this needs a serious re-write.  First of all, the BC is low.  It's a talent, for cryin' out loud, not a double-digit special knowledge spell.  Secondly, it can be actively resisted?  How in the world do you actively resist having someone look at your heat signature?  Are you supposed to be sending out little magical waves of heat confusion?  Thirdly, if the Adept is successful with the talent, he learns not only the species/general nature of the object, but also whether it's magical.  So magical things give out magic heat?  I don't get it.

Why not?  Detect Aura (Talent) can be Actively resisted.  Of course the trick is to know when to resist

G-5. Spell of Temperature Alteration

Interesting note about this spell: it states that while the range is "touch" (which usually indicates a successful Strike Check must be made), this spell states that the touching is part of the spell casting process. In other words, if you roll well enough to cast the spell, it's assumed you touched the target.  Odd, isn't it?

Not necessarily.  You have to be close enough to touch the target, without getting your head bashed in in the process.  However, if you are close enough to touch, don't get your head bashed in, AND successfully cast the spell, then you've touched the target.

G-7. Spell of Fireproofing

Rule 1 in Fire Mage school:  "ALWAYS have the Spell of Fireproofing up at ALL times."  That way, when trouble starts you can hop into the nearest medium fire and get that tasty +10 right away.  Plus, it's fun to freak out the local hoopleheads by warming your hands IN the fireplace.  It's also a great way to get rid of lice, fleas, ticks, and other parasites.  God, being  Fire Mage is fun.

Fun with interpretation - Were the lice, fleas, tics and other parasites on the mage when he cast Fireproofing?  If the answer is yes, then they are fireproofed too.  Also, were the clothes the fire mage is wearing when s/he steps into the fire what s/he was wearing  when the spell was cast?  No?  Then poof, they go up in flames.

G-8. Spell of Protection Against Magical Fire

Don't go dragon-hunting without it.  Does this spell protect the caster from damage incurred by his own backfires?  I ruled that it did, if only because the BC is so low, you risk incurring backfire by casting it, and I like to reward bravery.

My Firemage, the quintessential Firemage, hot-headed, brash, impulsive, etc., did this to protect her own party.  At low ranks do Spell prep and have someone handy who can keep the fire going.

S-1. Wall of Fire Spell

I house ruled that most animals should roll on the Fright Table when one of these pops up, including animals owned by the party to which the Fire Mage belonged.

I like this idea.

S-6 Imploding Fireball Spell

Fire Damage Spell variation #573.  What's the point?

More damage to single target.

S-8 Demonic Firebolt Spell

Is this necessary?  Just pump up ranks in regular Bolt of Fire.

Half-damage if save.

S-9 Spell of Hellfire

Variation #739.  The one drawback to this college is these infinite permutations.

A favorite to Invest, particularly when your Aspect is at best, especially when you have access to a Shaper to make it permanent.

S-13 Malignant Flames Spell

It eats up characteristics.  Ouch.  Can you imagine a dungeon full of wards with this spell on the trigger?

I haven't seen a whole lot of use of this one.

S-16 Spell of Summoning Efreet

This is powerful.  It's also one of the very few summoning spells where the summoned entity is of a helpful disposition.  I'd imagine that an Adept player who over-used this spell would start finding the efreeti rather less kindly disposed …

Remember my Firemage?  She had one on call and panicked when she was drowning.  After that no Efreeti would answer her summons.

G-9 Spell of Controlling Normal Fires

Range: 15 feet plus 15 feet per rank

Duration: Concentration (Maximum of five minutes plus five per rank)

Experience Multiple: 225

Base Chance: 25%

Resist: N/A

Effects: The caster may control the actions of a normal (i.e. non-magical) fire. He may decrease or snuff out the fire, or cause it to move along a certain path (provided that the path contains combustible materials to sustain the fire).  The size of fire the Adept may control is dependent on his rank with the spell:

0-3 torch, lantern

4-6 small campfire

7-9 bonfire

10-14 house fire

15+ GM's discretion (may include forest fires, town/city fire, etc.)

Another neat idea.

~Jeffery~