Messages in DQ-RULES group. Page 20 of 40.

Group: DQ-RULES Message: 958 From: zheb_54 Date: 8/17/2006
Subject: Re: AD&D Conversion to DQ?
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 959 From: Gabriel Martinez Date: 8/17/2006
Subject: Re: AD&D Conversion to DQ?
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 960 From: igmod@comcast.net Date: 8/17/2006
Subject: Re: AD&D Conversion to DQ?
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 961 From: John Rauchert Date: 8/17/2006
Subject: Re: P&P was DQ & New Games
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 962 From: Darren Hill Date: 8/17/2006
Subject: Re: P&P was DQ & New Games
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 963 From: Martin Gallo Date: 8/18/2006
Subject: Re: DQ & New Games
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 964 From: Schubert, David Date: 8/19/2006
Subject: P&P playtesting
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 965 From: Ran Hardin Date: 8/21/2006
Subject: Re: P&P was DQ & New Games
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 966 From: rthorm Date: 8/21/2006
Subject: DQ Wiki going live
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 967 From: edirr@welho.com Date: 8/22/2006
Subject: Re: DQ Wiki going live
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 968 From: J. K. Hoffman Date: 8/22/2006
Subject: Re: DQ Wiki going live
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 969 From: Jeffery K. McGonagill Date: 8/22/2006
Subject: Re: DQ Wiki going live
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 970 From: rthorm Date: 8/22/2006
Subject: Re: DQ Wiki going live
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 971 From: Mandos Mitchinson Date: 8/23/2006
Subject: Re: DQ Wiki going live
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 972 From: Lev Lafayette Date: 9/27/2006
Subject: Rats, Weasels and new games
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 973 From: aleam00 Date: 9/28/2006
Subject: Re: Rats, Weasels and new games
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 974 From: Lev Lafayette Date: 9/28/2006
Subject: Re: Rats, Weasels and new games
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 975 From: Martin Gallo Date: 9/29/2006
Subject: Re: Rats, Weasels and new games
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 976 From: Lev Lafayette Date: 12/1/2006
Subject: what limits the # of golems for a shaper?
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 977 From: Jeffery K. McGonagill Date: 12/2/2006
Subject: Re: what limits the # of golems for a shaper?
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 978 From: Lev Lafayette Date: 12/2/2006
Subject: Re: what limits the # of golems for a shaper?
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 979 From: zheb_54 Date: 12/2/2006
Subject: Re: what limits the # of golems for a shaper?
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 980 From: Jeffery K. McGonagill Date: 12/2/2006
Subject: Re: what limits the # of golems for a shaper?
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 981 From: Lev Lafayette Date: 12/3/2006
Subject: Re: what limits the # of golems for a shaper?
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 982 From: Lev Lafayette Date: 12/19/2006
Subject: Climbing
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 983 From: Mandos Mitchinson Date: 12/19/2006
Subject: Re: Climbing
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 984 From: Lev Lafayette Date: 12/19/2006
Subject: Re: Climbing
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 985 From: Lev Lafayette Date: 12/19/2006
Subject: Experience considerations
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 986 From: Jeffery K. McGonagill Date: 12/19/2006
Subject: Re: Experience considerations
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 987 From: Lev Lafayette Date: 12/19/2006
Subject: Re: Experience considerations
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 988 From: darkislephil Date: 12/20/2006
Subject: Re: Experience considerations
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 989 From: zheb_54 Date: 12/20/2006
Subject: Re: Experience considerations
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 990 From: darkislephil Date: 12/20/2006
Subject: Re: Experience considerations
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 991 From: Lev Lafayette Date: 12/20/2006
Subject: Re: Experience considerations
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 992 From: Lev Lafayette Date: 12/20/2006
Subject: Re: Experience considerations
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 993 From: zheb_54 Date: 12/20/2006
Subject: Re: Experience considerations
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 994 From: Omegazz Date: 12/20/2006
Subject: Opposed Rolls
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 995 From: Lev Lafayette Date: 12/20/2006
Subject: Re: Opposed Rolls
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 996 From: darkislephil Date: 12/20/2006
Subject: Re: Experience considerations
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 997 From: darkislephil Date: 12/20/2006
Subject: Re: Experience considerations
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 998 From: Lev Lafayette Date: 12/20/2006
Subject: Re: Experience considerations
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 999 From: darkislephil Date: 12/20/2006
Subject: Re: Opposed Rolls
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 1000 From: darkislephil Date: 12/20/2006
Subject: Re: Experience considerations
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 1001 From: Rodger Thorm Date: 12/20/2006
Subject: Re: Experience considerations
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 1002 From: Rodger Thorm Date: 12/20/2006
Subject: Re: Experience considerations
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 1003 From: Jeffery K. McGonagill Date: 12/20/2006
Subject: Re: Opposed Rolls
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 1004 From: darkislephil Date: 12/20/2006
Subject: Re: Experience considerations
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 1005 From: Lev Lafayette Date: 12/20/2006
Subject: Re: Opposed Rolls
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 1006 From: Mornak Date: 12/21/2006
Subject: Re: Experience considerations
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 1007 From: john@johncorey.com Date: 12/21/2006
Subject: Re: Experience considerations



Group: DQ-RULES Message: 958 From: zheb_54 Date: 8/17/2006
Subject: Re: AD&D Conversion to DQ?
I've never seen a good set of rules for converting AD&D to DQ, but
back in 1982, a friend and I created a tournament-style module that
was intended to run with both systems. Under the new rules (D&D 3 or
3.5), this conversion becomes even more straightforward.

We made our tournament PC's equal, based on 4th-level AD&D characters
and giving them an appropriate number of XP to spend-- 10,010 XP, the
amount that would make even a magic user of the period 4th level. We
then spent the points for these characters. Our rule of thumb was
that no skill would be above 4th Rank. The mages were allowed to
develop spells to 4th level and were given spell lists for their
colleges that maxed out their ability to advance spells according to
MA. The one area where we did not make things equal was in initial
points for characteristics-- those were rolled up according to the rules.

We stuck to the DQ bestiary for our monster list, using Nightgaunt
stats for the mummies who were the most powerful things in the crypt
level. I've always felt that there were a lot of unnecessary critters
in the Monster Manuals, especially the humanoids who occupy various
ecological niches. If a species occupies the role of a rabbit in its
area, why not use the stats for a rabbit? If it's a top predator like
a cougar, why not use stats for a similar top predator like a leopard,
tweaked a little to make it stronger or weaker, tougher or frailer,
quicker or slower?

Just my two cents worth, in Canadian currency, no less.

Zheb

--- In dq-rules@yahoogroups.com, "Gabriel Martinez" <gmartinez@...> wrote:
>
> As I know, Robert Aspring's Thieves' World, just have the Characters
skills, no convertion table. But if you compare both, maybe you get
some idea.
>
> Is the same with the AD&D Adventure "The Shatterd Statue".
>
> I got both. If you need it, I try to look for and give you more info
about it. My judgement is not good just because I never play D&D RPGA,
just D&D Minis.
>
> Regards.
>
> Gabriel.
>
>
>
> -----Mensaje original-----
> De: dq-rules@yahoogroups.com [mailto:dq-rules@yahoogroups.com]En
nombre de darkislephil
> Enviado el: Jueves, 17 de Agosto de 2006 12:41 p.m.
> Para: dq-rules@yahoogroups.com
> Asunto: [dq-rules] Re: AD&D Conversion to DQ?
>
>
>
> It had stats for a dozen or so game systems. The DQ section describes
> creating characters in or transfering characters to the TW setting but
> no conversion between rule formats are provided.
>
> --- In dq-rules@yahoogroup <mailto:dq-rules%40yahoogroups.com>
s.com, "Ran Hardin" <dantalion64@> wrote:
> >
> > There's an outside chance the old Thieves' World setting has some
> > conversion rules. It had stats for AD&D, DQ, and something else
(maybe
> > C&S or Runequest?). I'll dig it out in the next couple of days and
> > give it a look.
> >
>
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 959 From: Gabriel Martinez Date: 8/17/2006
Subject: Re: AD&D Conversion to DQ?
Beware with the Rabbit...!
 
King Arthur lost a lot of knights fighting against a rabbit.
 
-----Mensaje original-----
De: dq-rules@yahoogroups.com [mailto:dq-rules@yahoogroups.com]En nombre de zheb_54
Enviado el: Jueves, 17 de Agosto de 2006 04:02 p.m.
Para: dq-rules@yahoogroups.com
Asunto: [dq-rules] Re: AD&D Conversion to DQ?

I've never seen a good set of rules for converting AD&D to DQ, but
back in 1982, a friend and I created a tournament-style module that
was intended to run with both systems. Under the new rules (D&D 3 or
3.5), this conversion becomes even more straightforward.

We made our tournament PC's equal, based on 4th-level AD&D characters
and giving them an appropriate number of XP to spend-- 10,010 XP, the
amount that would make even a magic user of the period 4th level. We
then spent the points for these characters. Our rule of thumb was
that no skill would be above 4th Rank. The mages were allowed to
develop spells to 4th level and were given spell lists for their
colleges that maxed out their ability to advance spells according to
MA. The one area where we did not make things equal was in initial
points for characteristics- - those were rolled up according to the rules.

We stuck to the DQ bestiary for our monster list, using Nightgaunt
stats for the mummies who were the most powerful things in the crypt
level. I've always felt that there were a lot of unnecessary critters
in the Monster Manuals, especially the humanoids who occupy various
ecological niches. If a species occupies the role of a rabbit in its
area, why not use the stats for a rabbit? If it's a top predator like
a cougar, why not use stats for a similar top predator like a leopard,
tweaked a little to make it stronger or weaker, tougher or frailer,
quicker or slower?

Just my two cents worth, in Canadian currency, no less.

Zheb

--- In dq-rules@yahoogroup s.com, "Gabriel Martinez" <gmartinez@. ..> wrote:

>
> As I know,
Robert Aspring's Thieves' World, just have the Characters
skills, no convertion table. But if you compare both, maybe you get
some idea.
>
> Is the same with the AD&D Adventure "The Shatterd Statue".
>
> I got both. If you need it, I try to look for and give you more
info
about it. My judgement is not good just because I never play D&D RPGA,
just D&D Minis.
>
> Regards.
>
>
Gabriel.
>
>
>
> -----Mensaje
original---- -
> De:
href="mailto:dq-rules%40yahoogroups.com">dq-rules@yahoogroup s.com [mailto:dq-rules@yahoogroup s.com]En
nombre de darkislephil
> Enviado el: Jueves, 17 de Agosto de 2006 12:41
p.m.
> Para:
href="mailto:dq-rules%40yahoogroups.com">dq-rules@yahoogroup s.com
>
Asunto: [dq-rules] Re: AD&D Conversion to DQ?
>
>
>
> It had stats for a dozen or so game systems. The DQ section
describes
> creating characters in or transfering characters to the TW
setting but
> no conversion between rule formats are provided.
>
> --- In dq-rules@yahoogroup
<mailto:dq-rules% 40yahoogroups. com>
s.com, "Ran Hardin" <dantalion64@ > wrote:
> >
> > There's an outside
chance the old Thieves' World setting has some
> > conversion rules.
It had stats for AD&D, DQ, and something else
(maybe
> >
C&S or Runequest?). I'll dig it out in the next couple of days and
> > give it a look.
> >
>

Group: DQ-RULES Message: 960 From: igmod@comcast.net Date: 8/17/2006
Subject: Re: AD&D Conversion to DQ?
And the Werehare!
Beware with the Rabbit...!
 
King Arthur lost a lot of knights fighting against a rabbit.
 
-----Mensaje original-----
De: dq-rules@yahoogroups.com [mailto:dq-rules@yahoogroups.com]En nombre de zheb_54
Enviado el: Jueves, 17 de Agosto de 2006 04:02 p.m.
Para: dq-rules@yahoogroups.com
Asunto: [dq-rules] Re: AD&D Conversion to DQ?

I've never seen a good set of rules for converting AD&D to DQ, but
back in 1982, a friend and I created a tournament-style module that
was intended to run with both systems. Under the new rules (D&D 3 or
3.5), this conversion becomes even more straightforward.

We made our tournament PC's equal, based on 4th-level AD&D characters
and giving them an appropriate number of XP to spend-- 10,010 XP, the
amount that would make even a magic user of the period 4th level. We
then spent the points for these characters. Our rule of thumb was
that no skill would be above 4th Rank. The mages were allowed to
develop spells to 4th level and were given spell lists for their
colleges that maxed out their ability to advance spells according to
MA. The one area where we did not make things equal was in initial
points for characteristics- - those were rolled up according to the rules.

We stuck to the DQ bestiary for our monster list, usi ng Nightgaunt
stats for the mummies who were the most powerful things in the crypt
level. I've always felt that there were a lot of unnecessary critters
in the Monster Manuals, especially the humanoids who occupy various
ecological niches. If a species occupies the role of a rabbit in its
area, why not use the stats for a rabbit? If it's a top predator like
a cougar, why not use stats for a similar top predator like a leopard,
tweaked a little to make it stronger or weaker, tougher or frailer,
quicker or slower?

Just my two cents worth, in Canadian currency, no less.

Zheb

--- In dq-rules@yahoogroup s.com, "Gabriel Martinez" <gmartinez@. ..> wrote:
>
> As I know, Robert Aspring's Thieves' World, just have the Characters
skills, no convertion table. But if you compare both, maybe you get
some idea.
>
> Is the same with the AD&D Adventure "The Shatterd Statue".
>
> I got both. If you need it, I try to look for and give you more info
about it. My judgement is not good just because I never play D&D RPGA,
just D&D Minis.
>
> Regards.
>
> Gabriel.
>
>
>
> -----Mensaje original---- -
> De: dq-rules@yahoogroup s.com [mailto:dq-rules@yahoogroup s.com]En
nombre de darkislephil
> Enviado el: Jueves, 17 de Agosto de 2006 12:41 p.m.
> Para: dq-rules@yahoogroup s.com
> Asunto: [dq-rules] Re: AD&D Conversion to DQ?
>
>
>
> It had stats for a dozen or so game systems. The DQ section describes
> creating characters in or transfering characters to the TW setting but
> no conversion between rule formats are provided.
>
> --- In dq-rules@yahoogroup <mailto:dq-rules% 40yahoogroups. com>
s.com, "Ran Hardin" <dantalion64@ > wrote:
> >
> > There's an outside chance the old Thieves' World setting has some
> > conversion rules. It had stats for AD&D, DQ, and something else
(maybe
> > C&S or Runequest?). I'll dig it out in the next couple of days and
> > give it a look.
> >
>

Group: DQ-RULES Message: 961 From: John Rauchert Date: 8/17/2006
Subject: Re: P&P was DQ & New Games
And it is far from dead check out it here:
 
 
 
JohnR
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2006 9:31 AM
Subject: [dq-rules] Re: DQ & New Games

I still have my copies of P&P and Perilous Lands(?). I recall at the
time we tried to play it we kept running into "holes" in the rules.
Things we just couldn't figure out what to do or how to interpret.

It was an interesting campaign setting though and I know that at the
time I thought it had some good ideas.

--- In dq-rules@yahoogroup s.com, "Ran Hardin" <dantalion64@ ...> wrote:
>
> Wow, Powers & Perils! Now there was a game. It actually had a handful
> of really good ideas, and some unusual entities in the bestiary (esp.
> creatures from Middle Eastern myths)… but man, what a clunker of a game
> system! And the "artwork" – feh!
>
> As I recall, the adventure setting was pretty well done, and there were
> some item tables worth cribbing from. I've always wondered if they
> actually playtested the thing before they released it.
>
> Anyone else ever try this game?
>
>
> Oh, and good luck on the rules write-ups. It's a pretty daunting task.
>

Group: DQ-RULES Message: 962 From: Darren Hill Date: 8/17/2006
Subject: Re: P&P was DQ & New Games
On Fri, 18 Aug 2006 06:08:40 +0100, John Rauchert <jfrauchert@shaw.ca>
wrote:

> And it is far from dead check out it here:
>
> http://abroere.xs4all.nl/pnp/

Wow, that's a great link. I remember that game fondly. To answer an
earlier poster: yes, it was possible to play it. I ran a year-long
campaign.

Darren
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 963 From: Martin Gallo Date: 8/18/2006
Subject: Re: DQ & New Games
I ran a couple of sessions with some friends and while I enjoyed it
they felt there were too many tables to be any fun.

Marty

On Aug 15, 2006, at 11:11 AM, Ran Hardin wrote:

> Wow, Powers & Perils! Now there was a game. It actually had a
> handful
> of really good ideas, and some unusual entities in the bestiary (esp.
> creatures from Middle Eastern myths)… but man, what a clunker of a
> game
> system! And the "artwork" – feh!
>
> As I recall, the adventure setting was pretty well done, and there
> were
> some item tables worth cribbing from. I've always wondered if they
> actually playtested the thing before they released it.
>
> Anyone else ever try this game?
>
>
> Oh, and good luck on the rules write-ups. It's a pretty daunting
> task.
>
>
>
>
>
> To Post a message, send it to: dq-rules@eGroups.com
> To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: dq-rules-
> unsubscribe@eGroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 964 From: Schubert, David Date: 8/19/2006
Subject: P&P playtesting

Yes they did playtest it.  I found P&P too much work to be enjoyable. The older I get, the less rules I want as they tend to get in the way of role playing. I prefer role playing over rule playing. J

 

Now RQ, that was a game. I should have the MRQ today or Monday.

 

> As I recall, the adventure setting was pretty well done, and there

> were
> some item tables worth cribbing from. I've always wondered if they
> actually playtested the thing before they released it.
size=2 face=Arial>

Group: DQ-RULES Message: 965 From: Ran Hardin Date: 8/21/2006
Subject: Re: P&P was DQ & New Games
That IS a fun site! Brought back some fond (if ancient!) memories.

--- In dq-rules@yahoogroups.com, John Rauchert <jfrauchert@...> wrote:
>
> And it is far from dead check out it here:
>
> http://abroere.xs4all.nl/pnp/
>
>
> JohnR
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: darkislephil
> To: dq-rules@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2006 9:31 AM
> Subject: [dq-rules] Re: DQ & New Games
>
>
> I still have my copies of P&P and Perilous Lands(?). I recall at
the
> time we tried to play it we kept running into "holes" in the
rules.
> Things we just couldn't figure out what to do or how to interpret.
>
> It was an interesting campaign setting though and I know that at
the
> time I thought it had some good ideas.
>
> --- In dq-rules@yahoogroups.com, "Ran Hardin" <dantalion64@>
wrote:
> >
> > Wow, Powers & Perils! Now there was a game. It actually had a
handful
> > of really good ideas, and some unusual entities in the bestiary
(esp.
> > creatures from Middle Eastern myths). but man, what a clunker
of a game
> > system! And the "artwork" - feh!
> >
> > As I recall, the adventure setting was pretty well done, and
there were
> > some item tables worth cribbing from. I've always wondered if
they
> > actually playtested the thing before they released it.
> >
> > Anyone else ever try this game?
> >
> >
> > Oh, and good luck on the rules write-ups. It's a pretty
daunting task.
> >
>
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 966 From: rthorm Date: 8/21/2006
Subject: DQ Wiki going live
I set this up about a month ago during the discussion of the Group
Magic rules and invited a couple people to test it out. No one did
anything with it, so I'm going to open it to the wider community, and
see if anyone has a use or has interest at all.

http://dragonquest.cornellbox.com/pmwiki.php

This wiki is for the editing and improvement of DragonQuest rules. The
eventual, overall intent is to produce a set of Open Source
DragonQuest rules under a Creative Commons license.

If you are interested in contributing, send me an e-mail, and I will
give you the password. It's not that tightly secured; it's just
closed access to prevent vandalism.

I've also got a section on the Albion: Land of Faerie setting for DQ
(from Ares Magazine) which still needs correction and editing, but
you're welcome to look at that and contribute to that, as well.

http://dragonquest.cornellbox.com/pmwiki.php?n=Albion.HomePage

Suggestions and comments are welcome. I hope that this can become
another useful resource for the DQ community.

Rodger Thorm
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 967 From: edirr@welho.com Date: 8/22/2006
Subject: Re: DQ Wiki going live
Hello, all!

I'm one of the people Rodger is referring to. I wish to apologize for not trying
the Wiki out, but I have had a rather hectic couple of months.

Let's just say that there have been better times in my life. First working
inconvenient hours, then getting suddenly fired and having my computer's
motherboard fry to a crisp a few days ago and being left at the mercy of an
ancient 266 MHz P2 machine and needing to wait until September before getting a
new rig and needing to look for work all at the same time has sort of pushed DQ
more than a bit on the backburner.

Of the stuff on the Wiki, the Aspects are my work, though Rodger added them. We
discussed adding PBA, which Rodger did except for the weapons. Those were
supposed to come from the big compilation thingy I produced quite some time
back, but after I'd fixed the weapon weight issues and descriptions. A friend of
mine who knows his stuff about medieval weapons did the fact checking for me and
I got the results back, but for the aforementioned reasons I didn't get around
to fixing the bloody thing. And right now those files and the email containing
the errata are on another hard drive I can't access with my current piece of
junk because it doesn't recognize HDs that big.

When I get things back to a reasonably normal track (i.e. get the new comp and
get it up to a proper setup), I'll take care of the weapons and armor thing
first, because it will not take a lot of time. We can see about other things
after that.

In the meanwhile I can respond to any questions people have about the Aspects
and about the Weapons & Armor document with the caveat that I don't actually
have them available and will have to rely on memory unless the relevant portions
are quoted to me.

Cheers, everyone!

Edi

-------------

rthorm wrote:

> I set this up about a month ago during the discussion of the Group
> Magic rules and invited a couple people to test it out. No one did
> anything with it, so I'm going to open it to the wider community, and
> see if anyone has a use or has interest at all.
>
> http://dragonquest.cornellbox.com/pmwiki.php
>
> This wiki is for the editing and improvement of DragonQuest rules. The
> eventual, overall intent is to produce a set of Open Source
> DragonQuest rules under a Creative Commons license.
>
> If you are interested in contributing, send me an e-mail, and I will
> give you the password. It's not that tightly secured; it's just
> closed access to prevent vandalism.
>
> I've also got a section on the Albion: Land of Faerie setting for DQ
> (from Ares Magazine) which still needs correction and editing, but
> you're welcome to look at that and contribute to that, as well.
>
> http://dragonquest.cornellbox.com/pmwiki.php?n=Albion.HomePage
>
> Suggestions and comments are welcome. I hope that this can become
> another useful resource for the DQ community.
>
> Rodger Thorm
>
>
>
>
>
>
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 968 From: J. K. Hoffman Date: 8/22/2006
Subject: Re: DQ Wiki going live
I think this is a great idea, in theory. I hope it turns out well, but,
somehow, I'm not quite convinced that an ad hoc approach is the best way
to rewrite a rules system to get around a lack of published material.
Of course, I've been glad to be wrong about things before, and I'd be
glad to be wrong about this. And, hey, at least you all are doing
something about it!
Good luck!
Jim

rthorm wrote:
> I set this up about a month ago during the discussion of the Group
> Magic rules and invited a couple people to test it out. No one did
> anything with it, so I'm going to open it to the wider community, and
> see if anyone has a use or has interest at all.
>
> http://dragonquest.cornellbox.com/pmwiki.php
>
> This wiki is for the editing and improvement of DragonQuest rules. The
> eventual, overall intent is to produce a set of Open Source
> DragonQuest rules under a Creative Commons license.
>
> If you are interested in contributing, send me an e-mail, and I will
> give you the password. It's not that tightly secured; it's just
> closed access to prevent vandalism.
>
> I've also got a section on the Albion: Land of Faerie setting for DQ
> (from Ares Magazine) which still needs correction and editing, but
> you're welcome to look at that and contribute to that, as well.
>
> http://dragonquest.cornellbox.com/pmwiki.php?n=Albion.HomePage
>
> Suggestions and comments are welcome. I hope that this can become
> another useful resource for the DQ community.
>
> Rodger Thorm


--
----------
Quote of the day:
Are you a Network Geek? Then, check out my blog at
http://www.ryumaou.com/hoffman/netgeek/

More into fantasy and science-fiction? Then, try my other blog at
http://www.fantasist.net/scroll/
-----
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 969 From: Jeffery K. McGonagill Date: 8/22/2006
Subject: Re: DQ Wiki going live
It is interesting. I may experiment with some of the stuff.

~Jeffery~
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 970 From: rthorm Date: 8/22/2006
Subject: Re: DQ Wiki going live
In and of itself, the wiki isn't going to do much. Discussion is the
first step in generating new rules, and this forum (and some other
related DQ groups) are the key to that. But there is no good
repository for what has been gathered or worked out. After a certain
point, the discussion gets forgotten and lost in the back bins and
archives of the group. The wiki can act as a resource for collecting
and storing the new information and rules that have been developed.

Over time, I would hope that generally accepted rules could be
collected together and easily accessed. Other rules that have been
developed, but which are more specialized ("house rules") can be
collected as well. Individual GMs can decide which rules they will
adopt and which they will forego for their campaigns.

I've put most all of the Poor Brendan's Almanac text into the wiki.
I'd like to see some discussion and improvement of those rules, as
part of this, as well.

It is also my hope that the wiki will collect contributed re-writes of
the basic DQ rules into a new (improved) and openly available system.
There are already a couple of examples (see, for instance, the
rewritten Monetary Matters
[http://dragonquest.cornellbox.com/pmwiki.php?n=Main.MonetaryMatters]
which I wrote up some time ago). Eventually, it would be great to
have all the DQ rules revised and updated by group contribution.

Rodger


--- In dq-rules@yahoogroups.com, "J. K. Hoffman" <ryumaou@...> wrote:
>
> I think this is a great idea, in theory. I hope it turns out well,
but,
> somehow, I'm not quite convinced that an ad hoc approach is the best
way
> to rewrite a rules system to get around a lack of published material.
> Of course, I've been glad to be wrong about things before, and I'd be
> glad to be wrong about this. And, hey, at least you all are doing
> something about it!
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 971 From: Mandos Mitchinson Date: 8/23/2006
Subject: Re: DQ Wiki going live
> In and of itself, the wiki isn't going to do much. Discussion is the
> first step in generating new rules, and this forum (and some other
> related DQ groups) are the key to that. But there is no good
> repository for what has been gathered or worked out. After a certain
> point, the discussion gets forgotten and lost in the back bins and
> archives of the group. The wiki can act as a resource for collecting
> and storing the new information and rules that have been developed.

In the NZ group we use a Wiki for keeping track of the rule changes that
come off the mailing lists as well as documenting the world we use.

You can see what we have done here

http://www.dragonquest.org.nz/dqwiki/index.php/Main_Page

Mandos
/s
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 972 From: Lev Lafayette Date: 9/27/2006
Subject: Rats, Weasels and new games
Just started a new DQ game in Melbourne and it
provided an excuse to pull out the rules and have a
thorough read for the first time in a couple of
decades ;-)

Something very strange...

Rats should not have a PS: 4‑6. Especially not
in a game where a Housecat has PS: 3-4. A Rat is not
twice a strong as a cat. Ever. A Rat should have PS:
1-2. Likewise a Weasel, whilst a vicious li'll
critter, does not do D10+4 damage. Being nipped by a
savage by a Weasel is not the same as being hit by a
Heavy Crossbow. Based on the damage for a Rat (D10-7)
and the Mongoose (D10-6), it would be safe to say the
damage is supposed to be D10-4.

I think it's really cute that these (typographical?)
errors made it through first, second and third
editions and the open source second edition ;-)


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Group: DQ-RULES Message: 973 From: aleam00 Date: 9/28/2006
Subject: Re: Rats, Weasels and new games
Hi, Lev,
I seem to recall that these figures belong to a pack of at least 10
rats working together.
I don't have the manual by me so I'll check it when I get home.
BTW, it's always a great news to hear about new games. DQ forever!!!
Best regards... Arturo

--- In dq-rules@yahoogroups.com, Lev Lafayette <lev_lafayette@...>
wrote:
>
>
> Just started a new DQ game in Melbourne and it
> provided an excuse to pull out the rules and have a
> thorough read for the first time in a couple of
> decades ;-)
>
> Something very strange...
>
> Rats should not have a PS: 4‑6. Especially not
> in a game where a Housecat has PS: 3-4. A Rat is not
> twice a strong as a cat. Ever. A Rat should have PS:
> 1-2. Likewise a Weasel, whilst a vicious li'll
> critter, does not do D10+4 damage. Being nipped by a
> savage by a Weasel is not the same as being hit by a
> Heavy Crossbow. Based on the damage for a Rat (D10-7)
> and the Mongoose (D10-6), it would be safe to say the
> damage is supposed to be D10-4.
>
> I think it's really cute that these (typographical?)
> errors made it through first, second and third
> editions and the open source second edition ;-)
>
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 974 From: Lev Lafayette Date: 9/28/2006
Subject: Re: Rats, Weasels and new games
Hi Arturo,

It's just a single rat. Just very big ;-)

All the best,


Lev

--- aleam00 <aleam00@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Hi, Lev,
> I seem to recall that these figures belong to a pack
> of at least 10
> rats working together.
> I don't have the manual by me so I'll check it when
> I get home.
> BTW, it's always a great news to hear about new
> games. DQ forever!!!
> Best regards... Arturo
>
> --- In dq-rules@yahoogroups.com, Lev Lafayette
> <lev_lafayette@...>
> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Just started a new DQ game in Melbourne and it
> > provided an excuse to pull out the rules and have
> a
> > thorough read for the first time in a couple of
> > decades ;-)
> >
> > Something very strange...
> >
> > Rats should not have a PS: 4‑6. Especially
> not
> > in a game where a Housecat has PS: 3-4. A Rat is
> not
> > twice a strong as a cat. Ever. A Rat should have
> PS:
> > 1-2. Likewise a Weasel, whilst a vicious li'll
> > critter, does not do D10+4 damage. Being nipped by
> a
> > savage by a Weasel is not the same as being hit by
> a
> > Heavy Crossbow. Based on the damage for a Rat
> (D10-7)
> > and the Mongoose (D10-6), it would be safe to say
> the
> > damage is supposed to be D10-4.
> >
> > I think it's really cute that these
> (typographical?)
> > errors made it through first, second and third
> > editions and the open source second edition ;-)
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>


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Group: DQ-RULES Message: 975 From: Martin Gallo Date: 9/29/2006
Subject: Re: Rats, Weasels and new games
Actually, I think cats generally bite and back off, whereas weasels
and rats keep biting. Thus it is a quantity vs. quality argument.

On Sep 28, 2006, at 9:01 PM, Lev Lafayette wrote:

>
> Hi Arturo,
>
> It's just a single rat. Just very big ;-)
>
> All the best,
>
>
> Lev
>
> --- aleam00 <aleam00@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi, Lev,
>> I seem to recall that these figures belong to a pack
>> of at least 10
>> rats working together.
>> I don't have the manual by me so I'll check it when
>> I get home.
>> BTW, it's always a great news to hear about new
>> games. DQ forever!!!
>> Best regards... Arturo
>>
>> --- In dq-rules@yahoogroups.com, Lev Lafayette
>> <lev_lafayette@...>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Just started a new DQ game in Melbourne and it
>>> provided an excuse to pull out the rules and have
>> a
>>> thorough read for the first time in a couple of
>>> decades ;-)
>>>
>>> Something very strange...
>>>
>>> Rats should not have a PS: 4‑6. Especially
>> not
>>> in a game where a Housecat has PS: 3-4. A Rat is
>> not
>>> twice a strong as a cat. Ever. A Rat should have
>> PS:
>>> 1-2. Likewise a Weasel, whilst a vicious li'll
>>> critter, does not do D10+4 damage. Being nipped by
>> a
>>> savage by a Weasel is not the same as being hit by
>> a
>>> Heavy Crossbow. Based on the damage for a Rat
>> (D10-7)
>>> and the Mongoose (D10-6), it would be safe to say
>> the
>>> damage is supposed to be D10-4.
>>>
>>> I think it's really cute that these
>> (typographical?)
>>> errors made it through first, second and third
>>> editions and the open source second edition ;-)
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
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>
>
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> unsubscribe@eGroups.com
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>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 976 From: Lev Lafayette Date: 12/1/2006
Subject: what limits the # of golems for a shaper?
Just posting this here in the rules list rather than continuing the
thread on the newsletter list..

- - -
Agreed; R&S golems are *the* problem, given their high PER and MA and
ability to follow "intent" rather than the "letter" of commands.
Coordinating large numbers of clay golems means there is a practical
limit.

Another *huge* rules hole is the von Neumann problem. A R&S golem can
also have the Ritual of Shaping R&S Golems imbued into them. The
results is a war factory of golems producing golems producing golems,
with inevitable results.

An alternative or addition to simply limiting the number of R&S golems
to WP is also to give them some sense of rebellion. After all, if they
have free will it is probable that eventually they'll want freedom.
Thus...


# of R&S Golems Chance of Rebellion
up to 1/4 WP 0%
up to 1/2 WP 25%
up to WP 50%
up to 1.5 WP 75%
up to 2 WP 100%
etc

Modify scale by one to two levels depending on how onerous and cruel
or generous and kind the Shaper is. Rebellion will be a coordinated
among the golems but usually with ringleaders. A harsh Shaper may
prevent rebellion by instilling fear into their creations.

This does address the quantity of golems that can be controlled by the
caster, but not the von Neumann problem which remains an open issue
I'll have to ponder on...

All the best,


Lev


--- "Jeffery K. McGonagill" wrote:

> There is nothing in the rules, so I adopted my own.
> R&S Golems are the
> problem, so I limited the number to the WP of the
> Shaper.
>
> ~Jeffery~
>
>
> > Other than the in-game cost of materials, what
> would keep a shaper from
> > having, say, a hundred golems? Most of my stuff
> is in storage at this
> > time, so I thought I'd post this to ya'll.
> >
> >
> > thx,
> >
> > Greg W.
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 977 From: Jeffery K. McGonagill Date: 12/2/2006
Subject: Re: what limits the # of golems for a shaper?
There is no von Neumann problem as the R&S Golems cannot use rituals. They
may be imbued with "Ranks of any spells, talents, skills, weapon ability, or
liguistical knowledge".


>
> Just posting this here in the rules list rather than continuing the
> thread on the newsletter list..
>
> - - -
> Agreed; R&S golems are *the* problem, given their high PER and MA and
> ability to follow "intent" rather than the "letter" of commands.
> Coordinating large numbers of clay golems means there is a practical
> limit.
>
> Another *huge* rules hole is the von Neumann problem. A R&S golem can
> also have the Ritual of Shaping R&S Golems imbued into them. The
> results is a war factory of golems producing golems producing golems,
> with inevitable results.
>
> An alternative or addition to simply limiting the number of R&S golems
> to WP is also to give them some sense of rebellion. After all, if they
> have free will it is probable that eventually they'll want freedom.
> Thus...
>
>
> # of R&S Golems Chance of Rebellion
> up to 1/4 WP 0%
> up to 1/2 WP 25%
> up to WP 50%
> up to 1.5 WP 75%
> up to 2 WP 100%
> etc
>
> Modify scale by one to two levels depending on how onerous and cruel
> or generous and kind the Shaper is. Rebellion will be a coordinated
> among the golems but usually with ringleaders. A harsh Shaper may
> prevent rebellion by instilling fear into their creations.
>
> This does address the quantity of golems that can be controlled by the
> caster, but not the von Neumann problem which remains an open issue
> I'll have to ponder on...
>
> All the best,
>
>
> Lev
>
>
> --- "Jeffery K. McGonagill" wrote:
>
>> There is nothing in the rules, so I adopted my own.
>> R&S Golems are the
>> problem, so I limited the number to the WP of the
>> Shaper.
>>
>> ~Jeffery~
>>
>>
>> > Other than the in-game cost of materials, what
>> would keep a shaper from
>> > having, say, a hundred golems? Most of my stuff
>> is in storage at this
>> > time, so I thought I'd post this to ya'll.
>> >
>> >
>> > thx,
>> >
>> > Greg W.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> To Post a message, send it to: dq-rules@eGroups.com
> To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: dq-rules-unsubscribe@eGroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 978 From: Lev Lafayette Date: 12/2/2006
Subject: Re: what limits the # of golems for a shaper?
A ritual is not a spell?

--- "Jeffery K. McGonagill" <igmod@comcast.net> wrote:

> There is no von Neumann problem as the R&S Golems
> cannot use rituals. They
> may be imbued with "Ranks of any spells, talents,
> skills, weapon ability, or
> liguistical knowledge".
>
>
> >
> > Just posting this here in the rules list rather
> than continuing the
> > thread on the newsletter list..
> >
> > - - -
> > Agreed; R&S golems are *the* problem, given their
> high PER and MA and
> > ability to follow "intent" rather than the
> "letter" of commands.
> > Coordinating large numbers of clay golems means
> there is a practical
> > limit.
> >
> > Another *huge* rules hole is the von Neumann
> problem. A R&S golem can
> > also have the Ritual of Shaping R&S Golems imbued
> into them. The
> > results is a war factory of golems producing
> golems producing golems,
> > with inevitable results.
> >
> > An alternative or addition to simply limiting the
> number of R&S golems
> > to WP is also to give them some sense of
> rebellion. After all, if they
> > have free will it is probable that eventually
> they'll want freedom.
> > Thus...
> >
> >
> > # of R&S Golems Chance of Rebellion
> > up to 1/4 WP 0%
> > up to 1/2 WP 25%
> > up to WP 50%
> > up to 1.5 WP 75%
> > up to 2 WP 100%
> > etc
> >
> > Modify scale by one to two levels depending on how
> onerous and cruel
> > or generous and kind the Shaper is. Rebellion will
> be a coordinated
> > among the golems but usually with ringleaders. A
> harsh Shaper may
> > prevent rebellion by instilling fear into their
> creations.
> >
> > This does address the quantity of golems that can
> be controlled by the
> > caster, but not the von Neumann problem which
> remains an open issue
> > I'll have to ponder on...
> >
> > All the best,
> >
> >
> > Lev
> >
> >
> > --- "Jeffery K. McGonagill" wrote:
> >
> >> There is nothing in the rules, so I adopted my
> own.
> >> R&S Golems are the
> >> problem, so I limited the number to the WP of the
> >> Shaper.
> >>
> >> ~Jeffery~
> >>
> >>
> >> > Other than the in-game cost of materials, what
> >> would keep a shaper from
> >> > having, say, a hundred golems? Most of my
> stuff
> >> is in storage at this
> >> > time, so I thought I'd post this to ya'll.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > thx,
> >> >
> >> > Greg W.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > To Post a message, send it to:
> dq-rules@eGroups.com
> > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
> dq-rules-unsubscribe@eGroups.com
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>




____________________________________________________________________________________
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Group: DQ-RULES Message: 979 From: zheb_54 Date: 12/2/2006
Subject: Re: what limits the # of golems for a shaper?
Technically, a ritual is not a spell, but a different type of magic,
just as a talent is neither spell nor ritual, but the third major type
of magic use. This is supported in Mr. McGonagill's post by the
specification that golems may use talents as well as spells, and by
Part VI, Section 25 of the rules.

Zheb

--- In dq-rules@yahoogroups.com, Lev Lafayette <lev_lafayette@...> wrote:
>
>
> A ritual is not a spell?
>
> --- "Jeffery K. McGonagill" <igmod@...> wrote:
>
> > There is no von Neumann problem as the R&S Golems
> > cannot use rituals. They
> > may be imbued with "Ranks of any spells, talents,
> > skills, weapon ability, or
> > liguistical knowledge".
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Just posting this here in the rules list rather
> > than continuing the
> > > thread on the newsletter list..
> > >
> > > - - -
> > > Agreed; R&S golems are *the* problem, given their
> > high PER and MA and
> > > ability to follow "intent" rather than the
> > "letter" of commands.
> > > Coordinating large numbers of clay golems means
> > there is a practical
> > > limit.
> > >
> > > Another *huge* rules hole is the von Neumann
> > problem. A R&S golem can
> > > also have the Ritual of Shaping R&S Golems imbued
> > into them. The
> > > results is a war factory of golems producing
> > golems producing golems,
> > > with inevitable results.
> > >
> > > An alternative or addition to simply limiting the
> > number of R&S golems
> > > to WP is also to give them some sense of
> > rebellion. After all, if they
> > > have free will it is probable that eventually
> > they'll want freedom.
> > > Thus...
> > >
> > >
> > > # of R&S Golems Chance of Rebellion
> > > up to 1/4 WP 0%
> > > up to 1/2 WP 25%
> > > up to WP 50%
> > > up to 1.5 WP 75%
> > > up to 2 WP 100%
> > > etc
> > >
> > > Modify scale by one to two levels depending on how
> > onerous and cruel
> > > or generous and kind the Shaper is. Rebellion will
> > be a coordinated
> > > among the golems but usually with ringleaders. A
> > harsh Shaper may
> > > prevent rebellion by instilling fear into their
> > creations.
> > >
> > > This does address the quantity of golems that can
> > be controlled by the
> > > caster, but not the von Neumann problem which
> > remains an open issue
> > > I'll have to ponder on...
> > >
> > > All the best,
> > >
> > >
> > > Lev
> > >
> > >
> > > --- "Jeffery K. McGonagill" wrote:
> > >
> > >> There is nothing in the rules, so I adopted my
> > own.
> > >> R&S Golems are the
> > >> problem, so I limited the number to the WP of the
> > >> Shaper.
> > >>
> > >> ~Jeffery~
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> > Other than the in-game cost of materials, what
> > >> would keep a shaper from
> > >> > having, say, a hundred golems? Most of my
> > stuff
> > >> is in storage at this
> > >> > time, so I thought I'd post this to ya'll.
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > thx,
> > >> >
> > >> > Greg W.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > To Post a message, send it to:
> > dq-rules@...
> > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
> > dq-rules-unsubscribe@...
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
> Yahoo! Music Unlimited
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> http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited
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Group: DQ-RULES Message: 980 From: Jeffery K. McGonagill Date: 12/2/2006
Subject: Re: what limits the # of golems for a shaper?
Nope. There are Talents, Spells and Rituals, each is different.

~Jeffery~


>
> A ritual is not a spell?
>
> --- "Jeffery K. McGonagill" <igmod@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> There is no von Neumann problem as the R&S Golems
>> cannot use rituals. They
>> may be imbued with "Ranks of any spells, talents,
>> skills, weapon ability, or
>> liguistical knowledge".
>>
>>
>> >
>> > Just posting this here in the rules list rather
>> than continuing the
>> > thread on the newsletter list..
>> >
>> > - - -
>> > Agreed; R&S golems are *the* problem, given their
>> high PER and MA and
>> > ability to follow "intent" rather than the
>> "letter" of commands.
>> > Coordinating large numbers of clay golems means
>> there is a practical
>> > limit.
>> >
>> > Another *huge* rules hole is the von Neumann
>> problem. A R&S golem can
>> > also have the Ritual of Shaping R&S Golems imbued
>> into them. The
>> > results is a war factory of golems producing
>> golems producing golems,
>> > with inevitable results.
>> >
>> > An alternative or addition to simply limiting the
>> number of R&S golems
>> > to WP is also to give them some sense of
>> rebellion. After all, if they
>> > have free will it is probable that eventually
>> they'll want freedom.
>> > Thus...
>> >
>> >
>> > # of R&S Golems Chance of Rebellion
>> > up to 1/4 WP 0%
>> > up to 1/2 WP 25%
>> > up to WP 50%
>> > up to 1.5 WP 75%
>> > up to 2 WP 100%
>> > etc
>> >
>> > Modify scale by one to two levels depending on how
>> onerous and cruel
>> > or generous and kind the Shaper is. Rebellion will
>> be a coordinated
>> > among the golems but usually with ringleaders. A
>> harsh Shaper may
>> > prevent rebellion by instilling fear into their
>> creations.
>> >
>> > This does address the quantity of golems that can
>> be controlled by the
>> > caster, but not the von Neumann problem which
>> remains an open issue
>> > I'll have to ponder on...
>> >
>> > All the best,
>> >
>> >
>> > Lev
>> >
>> >
>> > --- "Jeffery K. McGonagill" wrote:
>> >
>> >> There is nothing in the rules, so I adopted my
>> own.
>> >> R&S Golems are the
>> >> problem, so I limited the number to the WP of the
>> >> Shaper.
>> >>
>> >> ~Jeffery~
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> > Other than the in-game cost of materials, what
>> >> would keep a shaper from
>> >> > having, say, a hundred golems? Most of my
>> stuff
>> >> is in storage at this
>> >> > time, so I thought I'd post this to ya'll.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > thx,
>> >> >
>> >> > Greg W.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > To Post a message, send it to:
>> dq-rules@eGroups.com
>> > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
>> dq-rules-unsubscribe@eGroups.com
>> > Yahoo! Groups Links
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Yahoo! Music Unlimited
> Access over 1 million songs.
> http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited
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>
>
>
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 981 From: Lev Lafayette Date: 12/3/2006
Subject: Re: what limits the # of golems for a shaper?
Actually it does specify also under R&S golems that
they cannot learn rituals. So no von Neumann problem,
my bad.


--- zheb_54 <zheb_54@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Technically, a ritual is not a spell, but a
> different type of magic,
> just as a talent is neither spell nor ritual, but
> the third major type
> of magic use. This is supported in Mr. McGonagill's
> post by the
> specification that golems may use talents as well as
> spells, and by
> Part VI, Section 25 of the rules.
>
> Zheb
>
> --- In dq-rules@yahoogroups.com, Lev Lafayette
> <lev_lafayette@...> wrote:
> >
> >
> > A ritual is not a spell?
> >
> > --- "Jeffery K. McGonagill" <igmod@...> wrote:
> >
> > > There is no von Neumann problem as the R&S
> Golems
> > > cannot use rituals. They
> > > may be imbued with "Ranks of any spells,
> talents,
> > > skills, weapon ability, or
> > > liguistical knowledge".
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Just posting this here in the rules list
> rather
> > > than continuing the
> > > > thread on the newsletter list..
> > > >
> > > > - - -
> > > > Agreed; R&S golems are *the* problem, given
> their
> > > high PER and MA and
> > > > ability to follow "intent" rather than the
> > > "letter" of commands.
> > > > Coordinating large numbers of clay golems
> means
> > > there is a practical
> > > > limit.
> > > >
> > > > Another *huge* rules hole is the von Neumann
> > > problem. A R&S golem can
> > > > also have the Ritual of Shaping R&S Golems
> imbued
> > > into them. The
> > > > results is a war factory of golems producing
> > > golems producing golems,
> > > > with inevitable results.
> > > >
> > > > An alternative or addition to simply limiting
> the
> > > number of R&S golems
> > > > to WP is also to give them some sense of
> > > rebellion. After all, if they
> > > > have free will it is probable that eventually
> > > they'll want freedom.
> > > > Thus...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > # of R&S Golems Chance of Rebellion
> > > > up to 1/4 WP 0%
> > > > up to 1/2 WP 25%
> > > > up to WP 50%
> > > > up to 1.5 WP 75%
> > > > up to 2 WP 100%
> > > > etc
> > > >
> > > > Modify scale by one to two levels depending on
> how
> > > onerous and cruel
> > > > or generous and kind the Shaper is. Rebellion
> will
> > > be a coordinated
> > > > among the golems but usually with ringleaders.
> A
> > > harsh Shaper may
> > > > prevent rebellion by instilling fear into
> their
> > > creations.
> > > >
> > > > This does address the quantity of golems that
> can
> > > be controlled by the
> > > > caster, but not the von Neumann problem which
> > > remains an open issue
> > > > I'll have to ponder on...
> > > >
> > > > All the best,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Lev
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- "Jeffery K. McGonagill" wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> There is nothing in the rules, so I adopted
> my
> > > own.
> > > >> R&S Golems are the
> > > >> problem, so I limited the number to the WP of
> the
> > > >> Shaper.
> > > >>
> > > >> ~Jeffery~
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> > Other than the in-game cost of materials,
> what
> > > >> would keep a shaper from
> > > >> > having, say, a hundred golems? Most of my
> > > stuff
> > > >> is in storage at this
> > > >> > time, so I thought I'd post this to ya'll.
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> > thx,
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Greg W.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > To Post a message, send it to:
> > > dq-rules@...
> > > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
> > > dq-rules-unsubscribe@...
> > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
> > Yahoo! Music Unlimited
> > Access over 1 million songs.
> > http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited
> >
>
>
>




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Group: DQ-RULES Message: 982 From: Lev Lafayette Date: 12/19/2006
Subject: Climbing
So how do you people handle climbing?

In DQ OpenSource it's listed as an 'adventurer' skill,
with a base of:
(3*MD)+(5*Rank)%

The XP cost isn't listed, but I've ruled that it (and
it's friend, swimming), is the same as horsemanship.

Also in DQ OpenSource and 2nd and third edition are
the rules:

A Thief can, as long as they can find a purchase
sufficient to bear their weight, climb any structure.
Their success chance when climbing on a structure not
made for that purpose is ([4*Manual
Dexterity]+[10*Rank] ‑[Structure Height in Feet
/10])%. Round the structure height down. If the GM’s
roll is greater than the success percentage, the Thief
has fallen in climbing the structure. To determine the
height at which the Thief falls, roll D100. Round the
number off to the nearest 10% (a roll of 5 is rounded
down), and multiply the height the Thief sought to
attain by that percentage. A Thief suffers ([Height in
Feet /10] Squared) Endurance Points when they fall.

This imo, seems a little too generous, although there
is no mention of what sort of modifiers are being
applied (I *guess* it assumes climbing equipment as
that is part of the thief-spy package)

What do others think?


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Group: DQ-RULES Message: 983 From: Mandos Mitchinson Date: 12/19/2006
Subject: Re: Climbing
> This imo, seems a little too generous, although there
> is no mention of what sort of modifiers are being
> applied (I *guess* it assumes climbing equipment as
> that is part of the thief-spy package)
>
> What do others think?

I think that the skill required to climb a building is substantially
different from climbing a rock face and the two skills represent this.
Thieves break into buildings, so any building (or structure) is climbable.
The base chance is there to represent that climbing into buildings may not
be the same but does provide practice for rocks and things.

So thieves can automatically climb into a building and have a damn good
chance of getting up anything else.
The rest of the world just tries to climb stuff.

Mandos
/s
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 984 From: Lev Lafayette Date: 12/19/2006
Subject: Re: Climbing
--- Mandos Mitchinson <mandos@allowed.to> wrote:

> > This imo, seems a little too generous, although
> there
> > is no mention of what sort of modifiers are being
> > applied (I *guess* it assumes climbing equipment
> as
> > that is part of the thief-spy package)
> >
> > What do others think?
>
> I think that the skill required to climb a building
> is substantially
> different from climbing a rock face and the two
> skills represent this.
> Thieves break into buildings, so any building (or
> structure) is climbable.
> The base chance is there to represent that climbing
> into buildings may not
> be the same but does provide practice for rocks and
> things.
>
> So thieves can automatically climb into a building
> and have a damn good
> chance of getting up anything else.
> The rest of the world just tries to climb stuff.

And a thief climbing a rock face?

The situation came when as a party was climbing a
rock-face; with lack of listed modifiers I had to make
things up on the fly - which turned out OK, but it
took some serious tweaking.

It was a *sheer* rock face; rather like this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Trango_Towers_Pakistan.jpg

All the best,


Lev

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Group: DQ-RULES Message: 985 From: Lev Lafayette Date: 12/19/2006
Subject: Experience considerations
Assume that you play every week, and every two weeks
you complete an adventure. Even the Palace of Ontocle,
for example.

Assume your characters aren't just good, they're
brilliant. *Every* adventure they go on they succeed.

So every fortnight of play, you manager to raise your
characters by the maximum experience points.

How many years of play do you think it would take to
get to Hero level? Even choosing the path of least
resistance. Even assuming that Speak and R/W Common
and the local language at Rnk 8 counts?



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Group: DQ-RULES Message: 986 From: Jeffery K. McGonagill Date: 12/19/2006
Subject: Re: Experience considerations
It doesn't take years. Months maybe.

~Jeffery~

> Assume that you play every week, and every two weeks
> you complete an adventure. Even the Palace of Ontocle,
> for example.
>
> Assume your characters aren't just good, they're
> brilliant. *Every* adventure they go on they succeed.
>
> So every fortnight of play, you manager to raise your
> characters by the maximum experience points.
>
> How many years of play do you think it would take to
> get to Hero level? Even choosing the path of least
> resistance. Even assuming that Speak and R/W Common
> and the local language at Rnk 8 counts?
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
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> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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>
>
> To Post a message, send it to: dq-rules@eGroups.com
> To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: dq-rules-unsubscribe@eGroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 987 From: Lev Lafayette Date: 12/19/2006
Subject: Re: Experience considerations
Actually, you're probably righth *if* one manages to
get that far as a cunning linguist e.g.,

Assume common and local language already spoken (and
read/write) to rank 8. So we need to get six skills to
rank 4 to be "Adventurer" status, and likewise for
"Hero" status. With the assumptions previously
given...

1200 for fortnight 1.
200 in six language skills (1200 xp) at Rnk 0. Assume
200 xp banked from character generation

1200 for fortnight 2.
75 in six language skills (450) to Rnk 1; leaving 750
in others (we'll save this; we'll need it)

1200 for fortnight 3.
125 in six language skills (750) to Rank 2; leaving
450 saved (total 1450).

1200 for fortnight 4
300 in six language skills (1800) to Rank 3: 600 spent
(total 800 in reserve)

1200 for fortnight 5
550 in three language skills (1650) to Rank 4; 400 in
reserve.

1200 for fortnight 6
550 in two more (five altogether) language skills
(1100) to Rank 4; 500 in reserve.

1200 for fortnight 7
550 for one more to Rank 4 (six! we made it to
Adventurer level), and 850 for one to rank 5; 300 in
reserve.

--- "Jeffery K. McGonagill" <igmod@comcast.net> wrote:

> It doesn't take years. Months maybe.
>
> ~Jeffery~
>
> > Assume that you play every week, and every two
> weeks
> > you complete an adventure. Even the Palace of
> Ontocle,
> > for example.
> >
> > Assume your characters aren't just good, they're
> > brilliant. *Every* adventure they go on they
> succeed.
> >
> > So every fortnight of play, you manager to raise
> your
> > characters by the maximum experience points.
> >
> > How many years of play do you think it would take
> to
> > get to Hero level? Even choosing the path of least
> > resistance. Even assuming that Speak and R/W
> Common
> > and the local language at Rnk 8 counts?
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
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> > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> protection around
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> >
> >
> > To Post a message, send it to:
> dq-rules@eGroups.com
> > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
> dq-rules-unsubscribe@eGroups.com
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>


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Group: DQ-RULES Message: 988 From: darkislephil Date: 12/20/2006
Subject: Re: Experience considerations
FWIW, many, many years ago I asked both Gerry Klug and David Ritchie
about whether or not the Speak and R/W skills counted towards
Adventurer/Hero ranking and they both said that only one counted.

As for getting to Hero:

It takes 1250 xp to get to Rank 4 with a language and 7400 to get to
Rank 8 for Speaking.

1550 & 8350 for writing.

Assuming the person takes three languages with both Speak and R/W
because the R/W is now at half-cost. That's 6 skills.

Take Dagger just becuase it is cheap. 400 & 6000 That's 7 skills.

Use your native R/W or, for non-humans, your second language as the 8th.

So for Adventurer: (1250 * 3) + (775 * 3) + 400 = 6475xp
Divide by 1200xp per successful adventure: 5.4
Only 6 successful adventures.

For Hero: (7400 * 3) + (4175 * 3) + 6000 = 40,725xp
Subtract the XP already gained to Adventurer: 34250
And divide by 2400xp per successful Adventure: 14.27
Just 15 more Adventures.

So not quite a year of playing time. And also it represents a huge
amount of in-game time. 44 weeks for each of the 3 languages and 72
weeks for dagger (assuming he started with it at rank 0).

Of course that assumes they don't get to take advantage of the 10%
training discount.

And technically the XP award isn't per adventure but per session:

"[86.1] The GM should make one set of Experience Point awards for
every five hours of effective play during one session."

So they would be getting more than 1200 every 2 weeks.

Getting to Hero isn't that hard if your players make that their goal.




--- In dq-rules@yahoogroups.com, Lev Lafayette <lev_lafayette@...> wrote:
>
>
> Assume that you play every week, and every two weeks
> you complete an adventure. Even the Palace of Ontocle,
> for example.
>
> Assume your characters aren't just good, they're
> brilliant. *Every* adventure they go on they succeed.
>
> So every fortnight of play, you manager to raise your
> characters by the maximum experience points.
>
> How many years of play do you think it would take to
> get to Hero level? Even choosing the path of least
> resistance. Even assuming that Speak and R/W Common
> and the local language at Rnk 8 counts?
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 989 From: zheb_54 Date: 12/20/2006
Subject: Re: Experience considerations
Actually, the fast track to Hero is not through skills or weaponry,
but through magic, because of the lower training time for spells. To
train a pair of spells to Rank 8 costs 36 training days and 36 times
the cost multiplier, so with only 144 training days and 14400
experience points, a Namer could advance to that exalted level. That
is why every group I ever played with instituted a rule that a skill
had to have been used at least once between levels to advance. Let's
look at two extreme examples: a Namer and a combat specialist who
only trains weapons skills.

Fortnight 1: 1200 XP each.
Nathan spends 800 points and 4 days to advance 8 General Counterspells
to Rank 1. Fred spends 175 and 4 weeks to advance scimitar, main
gauche and dagger to rank 1. He also picks up cestus and unarmed
combat for 180. While Fred is completing his training, Nathan gains
360 points for non-adventuring experience. Balance: Fred: 3 skills
at Rank 1, 2 skills at Rank 0, 845 points left; Nathan: 8 skills at
Rank 1, 760 points.

Fortnight 2: 1200 XP each.
Nathan spends 1600 XP and 8 days training. Fred spends 690 and 8
weeks. Nathan harvests 720 xp waiting for Fred. Nathan now has 8
skills at Rank 2 and 1040 banked points. Fred has 3 weapons at Rank
2, 2 at Rank 1 and 1355 in the bank.

Fortnight 3: 1200 XP each.
With only 2240 XP, Nathan chooses to advance 6 spells to rank 3,
leaving him a temporary balance of 440. However, Fred is going to be
training for at least 14 weeks, so Nathan can take three days later in
his vacation and train two more spells to rank 3. He invests 12
training days during the 14 weeks Fred is training. Scimitar 3, main
gauche 3, dagger 3, cestus 2 and unarmed combat 2 costs Fred 1200
points, leaving his bank untouched until he chooses to add short bow
and whip to his arsenal for 250 points. Nathan now has eight skills at
Rank 3, and with 86 vacation days, 1150 points in the bank. Fred has
3 weapons at Rank 3, 2 at 2 and 2 at rank 0 with 1105 points left.

Fortnight 4: 1200 XP each
This is where things slow down a bit for both players. With 2350
points, Nathan advances 4 spells to Rank 4 in 8 days, vacations for 4
days and trains for four more. Fred needs 20 weeks, training Scimitar
and main gauche to Rank 4 in 8 weeks, dagger to rank 4 in the second 8
weeks and whip and short bow to Rank 1 in the last 4, while gaining
rank 3 with unarmed and cestus for a total cost of 2250. Nathan's
vacation provides 1860 points, so with 16 days spent training, he can
easily afford the 850 he was short to train up eight spells to Rank 4.
For simplicity of calculation, let's assume Nathan waits to finish
his training until Fred is also in the home stretch. Nathan is now an
Adventurer with 1010 points banked, while Fred has three weapons at 4,
2 at 3 and 2 at one, and a mere 55 in the bank.

Fortnight 5: Nathan 2400, Fred 1200
Nathan spends 15 days and 3000 points training six spells to Rank 5.
Fred spends 6 weeks training so that he now has five weapons at rank 4
and 2 at 1, for a cost of 1000 xp. He banks the remaining 255 while
Nathan harvests 660 vacation points, trains his other two spells to
Rank 5 and has 70 left.

Fortnight 6: Nathan 2400, Fred 1200
Nathan trains 4 spells to Rank 6 for 2400 points, leaving him 70 plus
480 vacation points. Fred spends 4 weeks training whip and short bow
to rank 2 at a cost of 700, leaving 755 banked.

Fortnight 7: Nathan 2400, Fred 1200.
Nathan now has 6 spells at rank 6 and 1720 points banked while Fred
has 5 weapons at rank 4 and two at rank 3 with 355 points left over.

Fortnight 8: Nathan 2400, Fred 1200
Desperate to catch up, but lacking points, Fred takes a break from
training and takes a 14 day vacation for 1975 in the bank, while
Nathan spends 14 days training 4 spells to Rank 7 at a cost of 2800,
leaving his bank at 1320.

Fortnight 9: Nathan 2400, Fred 1200
Spending 8 weeks, Fred trains his two weapons to rank 4 for 2100
points. He finally makes adventurer on the strength of two language
skills counting for half each, while Nathan spends two weeks training
four more spells up to Rank 7, again at a cost of 2800. With 2180
banked, Nathan could afford to train 2 spells to rank 8, but chooses
to wait. Fred now has 420 banked.

Fortnight 10: 2400 each
Poor Fred! Training two weapons to rank 5 requires 10 weeks and he
opts for unarmed and short bow, for 2400 points. Nathan trains 4
spells to rank 8 in 16 days and reaps another 1620 in vacation time,
leaving his bank at 2200 and Fred's at 420.

Fortnight 11: 2400 Each
With 4600 points going into training, Nathan makes Hero handily in 16
days, harvesting 2700 points for vacation time while Fred spends ten
weeks training his whip and dagger for 2400 points.

Admittedly, this is an extreme example, because very few colleges will
allow a mage to advance this far on only 14400 points and most
fighters will also be spending points on adventuring skills, reducing
their overall training time. However, this proves that it is possible
to reach Hero in only 22 weeks of real time, and in 92 weeks plus
adventuring time in the game. Even assuming a week on the road for
every week of training, this is less than four game years. Meanwhile,
Fred has to endure almost three solid years of training before he hits
Hero with some rather extreme point costs per level.

Zheb_54


> > > Assume that you play every week, and every two
> > weeks
> > > you complete an adventure. Even the Palace of
> > Ontocle,
> > > for example.
> > >
> > > Assume your characters aren't just good, they're
> > > brilliant. *Every* adventure they go on they
> > succeed.
> > >
> > > So every fortnight of play, you manager to raise
> > your
> > > characters by the maximum experience points.
> > >
> > > How many years of play do you think it would take
> > to
> > > get to Hero level? Even choosing the path of least
> > > resistance. Even assuming that Speak and R/W
> > Common
> > > and the local language at Rnk 8 counts?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > __________________________________________________
> > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> > protection around
> > > http://mail.yahoo.com
> > >
> > >
> > > To Post a message, send it to:
> > dq-rules@...
> > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
> > dq-rules-unsubscribe@...
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
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> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
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Group: DQ-RULES Message: 990 From: darkislephil Date: 12/20/2006
Subject: Re: Experience considerations
--- In dq-rules@yahoogroups.com, "zheb_54" <zheb_54@...> wrote:
> That
> is why every group I ever played with instituted a rule that a skill
> had to have been used at least once between levels to advance.

Actually there was no need as the rules already state this:

[87.1] A character must have attempted an ability or skill on the
adventure previous to a gain in Rank in that ability or skill.

But there is no question that the fastest route to Hero ranking is via
magic. Less study time and usually less cost per rank than skills or
weapons.
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 991 From: Lev Lafayette Date: 12/20/2006
Subject: Re: Experience considerations
This is very good; don't be troubled by using extreme
examples. The use of normal range extreme distribution
points in any system illustrate the mid-points as
well.

Thanks for puttingthe effort in this; it's an
interesting excersise, verdade?

All the best,


Lev

--- zheb_54 <zheb_54@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Actually, the fast track to Hero is not through
> skills or weaponry,
> but through magic, because of the lower training
> time for spells. To
> train a pair of spells to Rank 8 costs 36 training
> days and 36 times
> the cost multiplier, so with only 144 training days
> and 14400
> experience points, a Namer could advance to that
> exalted level. That
> is why every group I ever played with instituted a
> rule that a skill
> had to have been used at least once between levels
> to advance. Let's
> look at two extreme examples: a Namer and a combat
> specialist who
> only trains weapons skills.
>
> Fortnight 1: 1200 XP each.
> Nathan spends 800 points and 4 days to advance 8
> General Counterspells
> to Rank 1. Fred spends 175 and 4 weeks to advance
> scimitar, main
> gauche and dagger to rank 1. He also picks up
> cestus and unarmed
> combat for 180. While Fred is completing his
> training, Nathan gains
> 360 points for non-adventuring experience. Balance:
> Fred: 3 skills
> at Rank 1, 2 skills at Rank 0, 845 points left;
> Nathan: 8 skills at
> Rank 1, 760 points.
>
> Fortnight 2: 1200 XP each.
> Nathan spends 1600 XP and 8 days training. Fred
> spends 690 and 8
> weeks. Nathan harvests 720 xp waiting for Fred.
> Nathan now has 8
> skills at Rank 2 and 1040 banked points. Fred has 3
> weapons at Rank
> 2, 2 at Rank 1 and 1355 in the bank.
>
> Fortnight 3: 1200 XP each.
> With only 2240 XP, Nathan chooses to advance 6
> spells to rank 3,
> leaving him a temporary balance of 440. However,
> Fred is going to be
> training for at least 14 weeks, so Nathan can take
> three days later in
> his vacation and train two more spells to rank 3.
> He invests 12
> training days during the 14 weeks Fred is training.
> Scimitar 3, main
> gauche 3, dagger 3, cestus 2 and unarmed combat 2
> costs Fred 1200
> points, leaving his bank untouched until he chooses
> to add short bow
> and whip to his arsenal for 250 points. Nathan now
> has eight skills at
> Rank 3, and with 86 vacation days, 1150 points in
> the bank. Fred has
> 3 weapons at Rank 3, 2 at 2 and 2 at rank 0 with
> 1105 points left.
>
> Fortnight 4: 1200 XP each
> This is where things slow down a bit for both
> players. With 2350
> points, Nathan advances 4 spells to Rank 4 in 8
> days, vacations for 4
> days and trains for four more. Fred needs 20 weeks,
> training Scimitar
> and main gauche to Rank 4 in 8 weeks, dagger to rank
> 4 in the second 8
> weeks and whip and short bow to Rank 1 in the last
> 4, while gaining
> rank 3 with unarmed and cestus for a total cost of
> 2250. Nathan's
> vacation provides 1860 points, so with 16 days spent
> training, he can
> easily afford the 850 he was short to train up eight
> spells to Rank 4.
> For simplicity of calculation, let's assume Nathan
> waits to finish
> his training until Fred is also in the home stretch.
> Nathan is now an
> Adventurer with 1010 points banked, while Fred has
> three weapons at 4,
> 2 at 3 and 2 at one, and a mere 55 in the bank.
>
> Fortnight 5: Nathan 2400, Fred 1200
> Nathan spends 15 days and 3000 points training six
> spells to Rank 5.
> Fred spends 6 weeks training so that he now has five
> weapons at rank 4
> and 2 at 1, for a cost of 1000 xp. He banks the
> remaining 255 while
> Nathan harvests 660 vacation points, trains his
> other two spells to
> Rank 5 and has 70 left.
>
> Fortnight 6: Nathan 2400, Fred 1200
> Nathan trains 4 spells to Rank 6 for 2400 points,
> leaving him 70 plus
> 480 vacation points. Fred spends 4 weeks training
> whip and short bow
> to rank 2 at a cost of 700, leaving 755 banked.
>
> Fortnight 7: Nathan 2400, Fred 1200.
> Nathan now has 6 spells at rank 6 and 1720 points
> banked while Fred
> has 5 weapons at rank 4 and two at rank 3 with 355
> points left over.
>
> Fortnight 8: Nathan 2400, Fred 1200
> Desperate to catch up, but lacking points, Fred
> takes a break from
> training and takes a 14 day vacation for 1975 in the
> bank, while
> Nathan spends 14 days training 4 spells to Rank 7 at
> a cost of 2800,
> leaving his bank at 1320.
>
> Fortnight 9: Nathan 2400, Fred 1200
> Spending 8 weeks, Fred trains his two weapons to
> rank 4 for 2100
> points. He finally makes adventurer on the strength
> of two language
> skills counting for half each, while Nathan spends
> two weeks training
> four more spells up to Rank 7, again at a cost of
> 2800. With 2180
> banked, Nathan could afford to train 2 spells to
> rank 8, but chooses
> to wait. Fred now has 420 banked.
>
> Fortnight 10: 2400 each
> Poor Fred! Training two weapons to rank 5 requires
> 10 weeks and he
> opts for unarmed and short bow, for 2400 points.
> Nathan trains 4
> spells to rank 8 in 16 days and reaps another 1620
> in vacation time,
> leaving his bank at 2200 and Fred's at 420.
>
> Fortnight 11: 2400 Each
> With 4600 points going into training, Nathan makes
> Hero handily in 16
> days, harvesting 2700 points for vacation time while
> Fred spends ten
> weeks training his whip and dagger for 2400 points.
>
> Admittedly, this is an extreme example, because very
> few colleges will
> allow a mage to advance this far on only 14400
> points and most
> fighters will also be spending points on adventuring
> skills, reducing
> their overall training time. However, this proves
> that it is possible
> to reach Hero in only 22 weeks of real time, and in
> 92 weeks plus
> adventuring time in the game. Even assuming a week
> on the road for
> every week of training, this is less than four game
> years. Meanwhile,
> Fred has to endure almost three solid years of
> training before he hits
> Hero with some rather extreme point costs per level.
>
> Zheb_54
>
>
> > > > Assume that you play every week, and every two
> > > weeks
> > > > you complete an adventure. Even the Palace of
> > > Ontocle,
> > > > for example.
> > > >
> > > > Assume your characters aren't just good,
> they're
> > > > brilliant. *Every* adventure they go on they
> > > succeed.
> > > >
> > > > So every fortnight of play, you manager to
> raise
> > > your
> > > > characters by the maximum experience points.
> > > >
> > > > How many years of play do you think it would
> take
> > > to
> > > > get to Hero level? Even choosing the path of
> least
> > > > resistance. Even assuming that Speak and R/W
> > > Common
> > > > and the local language at Rnk 8 counts?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> __________________________________________________
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> > > dq-rules-unsubscribe@...
> > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
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Group: DQ-RULES Message: 992 From: Lev Lafayette Date: 12/20/2006
Subject: Re: Experience considerations
--- darkislephil <darkislephil@yahoo.com> wrote:

> And technically the XP award isn't per adventure but
> per session:
>
> "[86.1] The GM should make one set of Experience
> Point awards for
> every five hours of effective play during one
> session."
>
> So they would be getting more than 1200 every 2
> weeks.

Ahh yes, I'd forgotten about that. My bad.

But it does raise the question - how is one supposed
to work out whether the party has succeeded within the
five hour timeframe?

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Group: DQ-RULES Message: 993 From: zheb_54 Date: 12/20/2006
Subject: Re: Experience considerations
Phil, we've always played it as a guideline. If the group plays an
hour or a significant portion thereof, they get experience for that
hour. If the overall adventure is a success, they get the double
award for all hours played within the adventure: 120 or 240 points
per hour, plus GM bonus if applicable. We tended to ignore the latter
because it left a lot of room for favouritism. (That's no typo! I'm
Canadian.) Otherwise, a huge adventure like "The Enchanted Wood"
would be much less rewarded than a one-night hack & loot session, and
roleplaying would be penalized.

As for ignoring 87.1 in my previous post, I stand corrected.

Zheb

--- In dq-rules@yahoogroups.com, Lev Lafayette <lev_lafayette@...> wrote:
>
>
> --- darkislephil <darkislephil@...> wrote:
>
> > And technically the XP award isn't per adventure but
> > per session:
> >
> > "[86.1] The GM should make one set of Experience
> > Point awards for
> > every five hours of effective play during one
> > session."
> >
> > So they would be getting more than 1200 every 2
> > weeks.
>
> Ahh yes, I'd forgotten about that. My bad.
>
> But it does raise the question - how is one supposed
> to work out whether the party has succeeded within the
> five hour timeframe?
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 994 From: Omegazz Date: 12/20/2006
Subject: Opposed Rolls
Does dragonquest have any mechanics for handling opposed rolls? For
instance, if two characters are arm wrestling, how would this be
handled? There are rules for applying difficulty factors to a
characteristic, for instance if you are breaking down a door, but I
don't see anything regarding how to handle situations where your
applying your PS against another character's PS. Runequest had a
Resistance Table to handle this situation.

Omegazz
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 995 From: Lev Lafayette Date: 12/20/2006
Subject: Re: Opposed Rolls
Sadly not and I agree it is a significant oversight.

A simple way to resolve this, that equates with the RQ
resistance table (interestingly also used in RM for
spell resistance) is:

50% + [active char*5 - resist char *5]

Of course, it's worth keeping in mind that the
Resistance Table (and this equation) only really work
with char within 10 of each other; PS 50 and PS 40
(which is really only a 20% difference) ends up being
the same as PS 15 and PS 5.

All the best,


Lev

--- Omegazz <omegazz@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Does dragonquest have any mechanics for handling
> opposed rolls? For
> instance, if two characters are arm wrestling, how
> would this be
> handled? There are rules for applying difficulty
> factors to a
> characteristic, for instance if you are breaking
> down a door, but I
> don't see anything regarding how to handle
> situations where your
> applying your PS against another character's PS.
> Runequest had a
> Resistance Table to handle this situation.
>
> Omegazz
>
>


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Group: DQ-RULES Message: 996 From: darkislephil Date: 12/20/2006
Subject: Re: Experience considerations
--- In dq-rules@yahoogroups.com, Lev Lafayette <lev_lafayette@...> wrote:
> But it does raise the question - how is one supposed
> to work out whether the party has succeeded within the
> five hour timeframe?

I give rewards out at the end of the adventure based upon the number
of sessions.

If it takes 3 sessions to complete an adventure then the reward is 3 x
1200 or whatever is appropriate for the rank of the character.

Actually I also grade each session upon how well it contributed to the
overall adventure success and so some sessions might be less than 1200
but usually not by much.
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 997 From: darkislephil Date: 12/20/2006
Subject: Re: Experience considerations
Zheb that's exactly what the rule suggests. If it takes 4 sessions
you would get 4x the reward. You get more for longer adventures not less.

Myself I've never broken it down to a per hour reward but I have
modified the amount if the session was really long or really short.

Phil

--- In dq-rules@yahoogroups.com, "zheb_54" <zheb_54@...> wrote:
>
> Phil, we've always played it as a guideline. If the group plays an
> hour or a significant portion thereof, they get experience for that
> hour. If the overall adventure is a success, they get the double
> award for all hours played within the adventure: 120 or 240 points
> per hour, plus GM bonus if applicable. We tended to ignore the latter
> because it left a lot of room for favouritism. (That's no typo! I'm
> Canadian.) Otherwise, a huge adventure like "The Enchanted Wood"
> would be much less rewarded than a one-night hack & loot session, and
> roleplaying would be penalized.
>
> As for ignoring 87.1 in my previous post, I stand corrected.
>
> Zheb
>
> --- In dq-rules@yahoogroups.com, Lev Lafayette <lev_lafayette@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > --- darkislephil <darkislephil@> wrote:
> >
> > > And technically the XP award isn't per adventure but
> > > per session:
> > >
> > > "[86.1] The GM should make one set of Experience
> > > Point awards for
> > > every five hours of effective play during one
> > > session."
> > >
> > > So they would be getting more than 1200 every 2
> > > weeks.
> >
> > Ahh yes, I'd forgotten about that. My bad.
> >
> > But it does raise the question - how is one supposed
> > to work out whether the party has succeeded within the
> > five hour timeframe?
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> > http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
>
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 998 From: Lev Lafayette Date: 12/20/2006
Subject: Re: Experience considerations
--- darkislephil <darkislephil@yahoo.com> wrote:

> --- In dq-rules@yahoogroups.com, Lev Lafayette
> <lev_lafayette@...> wrote:
> > But it does raise the question - how is one
> supposed
> > to work out whether the party has succeeded within
> the
> > five hour timeframe?
>
> I give rewards out at the end of the adventure based
> upon the number
> of sessions.
>
> If it takes 3 sessions to complete an adventure then
> the reward is 3 x
> 1200 or whatever is appropriate for the rank of the
> character.
>
> Actually I also grade each session upon how well it
> contributed to the
> overall adventure success and so some sessions might
> be less than 1200
> but usually not by much.

Well, that is the workable way of doing it, but you
know what (gamist) players are like! ("Give me
experience points *now*!")

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Group: DQ-RULES Message: 999 From: darkislephil Date: 12/20/2006
Subject: Re: Opposed Rolls
There is only the one type of opposed roll in DQ that I can think of
and that is when you want to withdraw from Close Combat.

[13.7] ...The figure who wishes to Withdraw while
in Close combat must first attempt to "break
contact." The figure rolls D10, and adds his (and
any other friendly figures in the hex) Physical
Strength and subtracts the total Physical Strength
of any hostile figures in the hex. If the modified
result is 10 or above, the figure may Withdraw
into any adjacent hex and is assumed to be
prone. In addition, an unmodified roll of 10
always allows Withdrawal

And I've used that basic outline for opposed Strength and skill rolls
on occasion in DQ.


--- In dq-rules@yahoogroups.com, "Omegazz" <omegazz@...> wrote:
>
> Does dragonquest have any mechanics for handling opposed rolls? For
> instance, if two characters are arm wrestling, how would this be
> handled? There are rules for applying difficulty factors to a
> characteristic, for instance if you are breaking down a door, but I
> don't see anything regarding how to handle situations where your
> applying your PS against another character's PS. Runequest had a
> Resistance Table to handle this situation.
>
> Omegazz
>
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 1000 From: darkislephil Date: 12/20/2006
Subject: Re: Experience considerations
Since they couldn't spend them it wouldn't do them any good but there
certainly is nothing stopping you from giving rewards at the end of
each session.


--- In dq-rules@yahoogroups.com, Lev Lafayette <lev_lafayette@...> wrote:
>
>
> --- darkislephil <darkislephil@...> wrote:
>
> > --- In dq-rules@yahoogroups.com, Lev Lafayette
> > <lev_lafayette@> wrote:
> > > But it does raise the question - how is one
> > supposed
> > > to work out whether the party has succeeded within
> > the
> > > five hour timeframe?
> >
> > I give rewards out at the end of the adventure based
> > upon the number
> > of sessions.
> >
> > If it takes 3 sessions to complete an adventure then
> > the reward is 3 x
> > 1200 or whatever is appropriate for the rank of the
> > character.
> >
> > Actually I also grade each session upon how well it
> > contributed to the
> > overall adventure success and so some sessions might
> > be less than 1200
> > but usually not by much.
>
> Well, that is the workable way of doing it, but you
> know what (gamist) players are like! ("Give me
> experience points *now*!")
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 1001 From: Rodger Thorm Date: 12/20/2006
Subject: Re: Experience considerations
I divided the 5 hour awards by 5 and use that as a base to calculate XP
awards, and I've been doing it that way for at least 20 years. (I
actually use the doubled figure as the base, because I've almost never had
a "failed" adventure.)

Rodger


> Myself I've never broken it down to a per hour reward but I have
> modified the amount if the session was really long or really short.

> --- In dq-rules@yahoogroups.com, "zheb_54" <zheb_54@...> wrote:
>>
>> Phil, we've always played it as a guideline. If the group plays an
>> hour or a significant portion thereof, they get experience for that
>> hour. If the overall adventure is a success, they get the double
>> award for all hours played within the adventure: 120 or 240 points
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 1002 From: Rodger Thorm Date: 12/20/2006
Subject: Re: Experience considerations
They certainly *can* spend them, and I've seen more than a few points of
Perception and a couple other stats raised in the middle of an adventure.

Rodger

> Since they couldn't spend them it wouldn't do them any good but there
> certainly is nothing stopping you from giving rewards at the end of
> each session.
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 1003 From: Jeffery K. McGonagill Date: 12/20/2006
Subject: Re: Opposed Rolls
Just use the restraining rule.

~Jeffery~


>
> Sadly not and I agree it is a significant oversight.
>
> A simple way to resolve this, that equates with the RQ
> resistance table (interestingly also used in RM for
> spell resistance) is:
>
> 50% + [active char*5 - resist char *5]
>
> Of course, it's worth keeping in mind that the
> Resistance Table (and this equation) only really work
> with char within 10 of each other; PS 50 and PS 40
> (which is really only a 20% difference) ends up being
> the same as PS 15 and PS 5.
>
> All the best,
>
>
> Lev
>
> --- Omegazz <omegazz@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> Does dragonquest have any mechanics for handling
>> opposed rolls? For
>> instance, if two characters are arm wrestling, how
>> would this be
>> handled? There are rules for applying difficulty
>> factors to a
>> characteristic, for instance if you are breaking
>> down a door, but I
>> don't see anything regarding how to handle
>> situations where your
>> applying your PS against another character's PS.
>> Runequest had a
>> Resistance Table to handle this situation.
>>
>> Omegazz
>>
>>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
> To Post a message, send it to: dq-rules@eGroups.com
> To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: dq-rules-unsubscribe@eGroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 1004 From: darkislephil Date: 12/20/2006
Subject: Re: Experience considerations
Not per the rules but then all rules are at the GM's whim so...

--- In dq-rules@yahoogroups.com, "Rodger Thorm" <rthorm@...> wrote:
>
> They certainly *can* spend them, and I've seen more than a few points of
> Perception and a couple other stats raised in the middle of an
adventure.
>
> Rodger
>
> > Since they couldn't spend them it wouldn't do them any good but there
> > certainly is nothing stopping you from giving rewards at the end of
> > each session.
>
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 1005 From: Lev Lafayette Date: 12/20/2006
Subject: Re: Opposed Rolls
Well, as long as you give a d10 to both sides, yes
that would work.

Notably it would have the same effects as the RQ
resistance table and the formula below, except it
would be in 10% increments rather than 5.

A further option which I have been using for a while
now in all sorts of rpgs would be to vary the die used
according to the randomness of the situation (after
all that's what a random die is, right?).

For example, two characters are racing across a city
towards an objective whilst a massive earthquake is in
progress (this sort of thing happens!). Who gets there
first? Well the random factor (crowds, falling
buildings etc) is quite high - even more so than AGI!

So AGI+2d10 for both sides.

Whereas an arm wrestle is pretty open and shut. Strong
people tend to win, although WP tends to very
important as well.

PS + 1/2 WP + 1d5.

And so forth...

All the best,


Lev

--- "Jeffery K. McGonagill" <igmod@comcast.net> wrote:

> Just use the restraining rule.
>
> ~Jeffery~
>
>
> >
> > Sadly not and I agree it is a significant
> oversight.
> >
> > A simple way to resolve this, that equates with
> the RQ
> > resistance table (interestingly also used in RM
> for
> > spell resistance) is:
> >
> > 50% + [active char*5 - resist char *5]
> >
> > Of course, it's worth keeping in mind that the
> > Resistance Table (and this equation) only really
> work
> > with char within 10 of each other; PS 50 and PS 40
> > (which is really only a 20% difference) ends up
> being
> > the same as PS 15 and PS 5.
> >
> > All the best,
> >
> >
> > Lev
> >
> > --- Omegazz <omegazz@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Does dragonquest have any mechanics for handling
> >> opposed rolls? For
> >> instance, if two characters are arm wrestling,
> how
> >> would this be
> >> handled? There are rules for applying difficulty
> >> factors to a
> >> characteristic, for instance if you are breaking
> >> down a door, but I
> >> don't see anything regarding how to handle
> >> situations where your
> >> applying your PS against another character's PS.
> >> Runequest had a
> >> Resistance Table to handle this situation.
> >>
> >> Omegazz
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> protection around
> > http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
> >
> > To Post a message, send it to:
> dq-rules@eGroups.com
> > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
> dq-rules-unsubscribe@eGroups.com
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>


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Group: DQ-RULES Message: 1006 From: Mornak Date: 12/21/2006
Subject: Re: Experience considerations
Hello everybody.

I've never let any player to spend XP before ending the adventure. If they want XP, they should earn it! :D
Moreover: you can't give XP if you don't know if the adventure is succefull or not.

When the adventure finishes I give the XP to the players. I use the base XP suggested by the book. And I add/sustract 10% a good/bad "performances" and 20% to really good/bad "performances"

These bonus & penalties is based on:
- The rollplay of the character: good rollplaying makes the game more entertaining
- Bravery: DQ is a mediaeval-fantasy RPG. So, the players are suposed to be heroes. Therefore they should be brave. Except a player is playing a coward character, but that's never happend.
- If the character adquires a new "dimension" or reveal something that will condition his future rollplay
- If they have good ideas that helps the party and succed in using those ideas
- It they try to "solve" the quest

Do you agree with these considerations?

Regards from Argentina
Mornak

PS: please, exuse my terrible english


On 12/21/06, darkislephil <darkislephil@yahoo.com> wrote:

Not per the rules but then all rules are at the GM's whim so...

--- In dq-rules@yahoogroups.com, "Rodger Thorm" <rthorm@...> wrote:
>
> They certainly *can* spend them, and I've seen more than a few points of
> Perception and a couple other stats raised in the middle of an
adventure.
>
> Rodger
>
> > Since they couldn't spend them it wouldn't do them any good but there
> > certainly is nothing stopping you from giving rewards at the end of
> > each session.
>




--
"The life of a software architect is a long (and sometimes painful) succession of suboptimal decisions made partly in the dark."

-------------------------------------
<EPI/> - Deploying ideas
-------------------------------------
Ing. Diego H. Mornacco
Arquitecto
Epidata Consulting
Maipú 521 1er piso Of. A
Ofi: 5031 0060 / 61
Cel: 15-5884-0040
www.epidataconsulting.com
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 1007 From: john@johncorey.com Date: 12/21/2006
Subject: Re: Experience considerations
Are you certain? I thought stats and adventure skills could be raqised
instantly without training.

JohnC

> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: [dq-rules] Re: Experience considerations
> From: "darkislephil" <darkislephil@yahoo.com>
> Date: Wed, December 20, 2006 10:40 pm
> To: dq-rules@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Not per the rules but then all rules are at the GM's whim so...
>
> --- In dq-rules@yahoogroups.com, "Rodger Thorm" <rthorm@...> wrote:
> >
> > They certainly *can* spend them, and I've seen more than a few points of
> > Perception and a couple other stats raised in the middle of an
> adventure.
> >
> > Rodger
> >
> > > Since they couldn't spend them it wouldn't do them any good but there
> > > certainly is nothing stopping you from giving rewards at the end of
> > > each session.
> >
>
>