Messages in DQ-RULES group. Page 2 of 40.

Group: DQ-RULES Message: 51 From: Rodger Thorm Date: 2/15/2000
Subject: Re: Task list
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 52 From: John Rauchert Date: 2/16/2000
Subject: Re: I do have a job! Formatting
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 53 From: John Rauchert Date: 2/16/2000
Subject: Several Things (core rules, org, etc.)
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 54 From: john Corey Date: 2/16/2000
Subject: I (and my group) will take magic, if no one else wants it.
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 55 From: John Rauchert Date: 2/16/2000
Subject: Re: I (and my group) will take magic, if no one else w ants it.
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 56 From: john Corey Date: 2/16/2000
Subject: Perception, i go with 8
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 57 From: Snafaru Date: 2/16/2000
Subject: DQOS r2000/02/16... rtf/pdf... perception.
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 58 From: John Rauchert Date: 2/17/2000
Subject: Re: DQOS r2000/02/16... rtf/pdf... perception.
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 59 From: Todd Coy Date: 2/17/2000
Subject: rule clarification "unstunning"
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 60 From: Rodger Thorm Date: 2/17/2000
Subject: Quick thoughts on many topics
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 61 From: john Corey Date: 2/17/2000
Subject: Re: rule clarification "unstunning"
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 62 From: Snafaru Date: 2/17/2000
Subject: DQOS r000217 and lots more...
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 63 From: John Rauchert Date: 2/18/2000
Subject: Re: DQOS r000217 and lots more...
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 64 From: john Corey Date: 2/18/2000
Subject: Re: Quick thoughts on many topics
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 65 From: Todd E. Schreiber Date: 2/18/2000
Subject: Re: DQOS r000217 and lots more...
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 66 From: John Rauchert Date: 2/18/2000
Subject: GNU GPL
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 67 From: Todd Schreiber Date: 2/18/2000
Subject: Re: GNU GPL
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 68 From: John Rauchert Date: 2/18/2000
Subject: Re: GNU GPL
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 69 From: John M. Kahane Date: 2/18/2000
Subject: Re: Sample rules coring
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 70 From: John M. Kahane Date: 2/18/2000
Subject: Re: I do have a job! Formatting
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 71 From: John M. Kahane Date: 2/18/2000
Subject: The Messages Here...
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 72 From: John M. Kahane Date: 2/18/2000
Subject: Endurance, Fatigue, and Perception
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 73 From: John M. Kahane Date: 2/18/2000
Subject: Recover from Stun Rule
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 74 From: john Corey Date: 2/19/2000
Subject: Concerns about this project
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 75 From: Snafaru Date: 2/19/2000
Subject: Re: Concerns about this project
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 76 From: Snafaru Date: 2/19/2000
Subject: DQOS release 00/02/18.
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 77 From: john Corey Date: 2/19/2000
Subject: Re: Concerns about this project
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 78 From: Snafaru Date: 2/19/2000
Subject: Today's work...
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 79 From: Todd E. Schreiber Date: 2/20/2000
Subject: Re: Concerns about this project
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 80 From: John Rauchert Date: 2/20/2000
Subject: Re: Concerns about this project
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 81 From: John Rauchert Date: 2/20/2000
Subject: Re: Concerns about this project
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 82 From: John Rauchert Date: 2/20/2000
Subject: Re: Concerns about this project
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 83 From: Rodger Thorm Date: 2/21/2000
Subject: Re: The Messages Here...
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 84 From: Rodger Thorm Date: 2/21/2000
Subject: Organization
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 85 From: John Rauchert Date: 2/22/2000
Subject: Re: Organization
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 86 From: john Corey Date: 2/22/2000
Subject: Re: Organization How does Snafaru's work fit in?
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 87 From: Rodger Thorm Date: 2/22/2000
Subject: Re: Organization How does Snafaru's work fit in?
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 88 From: Rodger Thorm Date: 2/23/2000
Subject: New Skills for DragonQuest
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 89 From: john Corey Date: 2/23/2000
Subject: Re: New Skills for DragonQuest
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 90 From: Snafaru Date: 2/23/2000
Subject: Re: New Skills for DragonQuest
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 91 From: Todd Schreiber Date: 2/23/2000
Subject: Re: New Skills for DragonQuest
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 92 From: John Rauchert Date: 2/23/2000
Subject: Re: New Skills for DragonQuest
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 93 From: john Corey Date: 2/24/2000
Subject: Re: New Skills for DragonQuest
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 94 From: Snafaru Date: 2/26/2000
Subject: DQOS release 00/02/25
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 95 From: John M. Kahane Date: 2/28/2000
Subject: DQOS Project Thoughts
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 96 From: Serge Rancour Date: 2/29/2000
Subject: Re: DQOS release 00/02/25
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 97 From: John Rauchert Date: 2/29/2000
Subject: Re: DQOS release 00/02/25
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 98 From: Serge Rancour Date: 2/29/2000
Subject: Re: DQOS release 00/02/25
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 99 From: Snafaru Date: 2/29/2000
Subject: Contributions - Status
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 100 From: john Corey Date: 3/1/2000
Subject: Re: Contributions - Status thanks



Group: DQ-RULES Message: 51 From: Rodger Thorm Date: 2/15/2000
Subject: Re: Task list
"john corey" <joh-@westpole.com> wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/dq-rules/?start=32


> I think we need a task list. It will be much easier to volunteer for
a
> task, if we are able to list some of them out. Any one wana take this
> one?

I think that we definitely need to get some organization and focus. I
don't think we should plunge right in and try to tackle everything
today.

Two things that need to be worked out at the outset (and these are
just my opinions, not rule by fiat):

1) Areas of interest.
I think it was Snafaru who first forwarded this idea in general.
We discussed the idea over on WebRPG of having several people who will
serve at the core of the DQ OS project. I think it would be useful to
have one person who will coordinate each section of the rules. At its
most basic, we need three coordinators (one for each of the three books
of DQ). Beyond that, we can probably break down into 5 or 6 (maybe
Character Generation, Combat, Magic, Skills, Monsters, and
Miscellaneous/Adventure). I don't mean that John (just to pick a name
out of a hat) is solely in charge of Combat, but rather that John will
take charge of collecting, distributing, cleaning up, and chairing
discussion about that section. All of us will have input on these
rules, I expect. But this way we can identify who will carry which
part of it.

If there is general agreement that this makes sense, I would like
to invite nominations or volunteers for these positions as people see
fit. Based on my own schedule, I should probably not take charge of a
section. Snafaru seemed to me to be volunteering for Combat, so I will
second that.


Okay, so just one thing for tonight. This is getting kind of
long-winded anyhow, and my ISP keeps crapping out on me.

--Rodger
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 52 From: John Rauchert Date: 2/16/2000
Subject: Re: I do have a job! Formatting
"john m. kahane" <jkahan-@comnet.ca> wrote:
>
> ...even if I haven't figured out what I'm supposed to be doing
> here. :)
>

If nothing else you can act as our voice of reason if we get too far
out there and away from the original vision of DQ.

JohnR "Is your name not Bruce? --Python"
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 53 From: John Rauchert Date: 2/16/2000
Subject: Several Things (core rules, org, etc.)
RODGERS CALL FOR NOMINATIONS:
I would like to volunteer to head up Character Generation. I have
created and worked with many character generation systems in the past
(they all started out as game systems but usually I stalled out at
Character Generation).

I would also like to continue to work with other groups on the rules
coring concept.

CORE RULES:

As JohnK points out we are not trying to create a GURPS system. However
I would like to think that after this process someone with alot of time
on their hands could create an SF game based in the DQ rules (by
replacing races, skills, weapons tables, etc.). The most I would like
to see us add to the original material are guidelines for creating
additional races, skills, weapons, etc. So if someone wanted to use DQ
to play in the DragonLance realm, they could do so.

Broadly, the core rules of DQ are covered in the following sections:

First Book 1-24 (some parts of the first book are non-core or are a
possible third category vaguely called for now necessary but modifable.)

Second Book 25-35 plus possibily 44.8 Fright Table and 30.1 Backfire
Table

Third Book 48-49 skills, 63-65 monsters, 77-87 adventure (84 may be
core but it should really be under magic)

The Tables 82.9, 87.8, 83.4

JohnR
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 54 From: john Corey Date: 2/16/2000
Subject: I (and my group) will take magic, if no one else wants it.
Just that. I am going to take the approach that JohnR outlined and go
for the core rules. By that approach, that EXCLUDES all colleges of
magic. I will still work on Colleges, but they are going to be more of
the plugin type of thing.

I also need to know what JohnR plans to do with Fatigue and Endurance.
It did not sound as if Fatigue would nessecarily be in the bare-minimum
core rules...

John Corey
AKA Juanc1
PS i will wait a few days to see if there are any objections, and then
start by doing some postings at Web RPG.



"john rauchert" <john.raucher-@sait.ab.ca> wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/dq-rules/?start=53
> RODGERS CALL FOR NOMINATIONS:
> I would like to volunteer to head up Character Generation. I have
> created and worked with many character generation systems in the past
> (they all started out as game systems but usually I stalled out at
> Character Generation).
>
> I would also like to continue to work with other groups on the rules
> coring concept.
>
> CORE RULES:
>
> As JohnK points out we are not trying to create a GURPS system.
However
> I would like to think that after this process someone with alot of
time
> on their hands could create an SF game based in the DQ rules (by
> replacing races, skills, weapons tables, etc.). The most I would like
> to see us add to the original material are guidelines for creating
> additional races, skills, weapons, etc. So if someone wanted to use DQ
> to play in the DragonLance realm, they could do so.
>
> Broadly, the core rules of DQ are covered in the following sections:
>
> First Book 1-24 (some parts of the first book are non-core or are a
> possible third category vaguely called for now necessary but
modifable.)
>
> Second Book 25-35 plus possibily 44.8 Fright Table and 30.1 Backfire
> Table
>
> Third Book 48-49 skills, 63-65 monsters, 77-87 adventure (84 may be
> core but it should really be under magic)
>
> The Tables 82.9, 87.8, 83.4
>
> JohnR
>
>
>
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 55 From: John Rauchert Date: 2/16/2000
Subject: Re: I (and my group) will take magic, if no one else w ants it.
RE: [dq-rules] I (and my group) will take magic, if no one else wants it.

Since End is a primary characteristic I was not at this point going to touch it.

While Fatigue and Perception are secondary characteristics they are not to my mind optional characteristics, they are just too tied into the combat and magic systems,etc., so I think you can go ahead business as usual.

However, increasing Base Perception seems to be a common enough rule variation to add it to the core rules. Now all we have to agree upon is a value.

JohnR

-----Original Message-----
From: john Corey [mailto:john@westpole.com]
Sent: February 16, 2000 8:04 AM
To: dq-rules@eGroups.com
Subject: [dq-rules] I (and my group) will take magic, if no one else
wants it.

I also need to know what JohnR plans to do with Fatigue and Endurance.
It did not sound as if Fatigue would nessecarily be in the bare-minimum
core rules...

Group: DQ-RULES Message: 56 From: john Corey Date: 2/16/2000
Subject: Perception, i go with 8
john rauchert <john.raucher-@sait.ab.ca> wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/dq-rules/?start=55
> Since End is a primary characteristic I was not at this point going
to touch
> it.
>
> While Fatigue and Perception are secondary characteristics they are
not to
> my mind optional characteristics, they are just too tied into the
combat and
> magic systems,etc., so I think you can go ahead business as usual.
>
> However, increasing Base Perception seems to be a common enough rule
> variation to add it to the core rules. Now all we have to agree upon
is a
> value.
>
> JohnR
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: john Corey [mailto:john@westpole.com]
> Sent: February 16, 2000 8:04 AM
> To: dq-rules@eGroups.com
> Subject: [dq-rules] I (and my group) will take magic, if no one else
> wants it.
>
> I also need to know what JohnR plans to do with Fatigue and Endurance.
> It did not sound as if Fatigue would nessecarily be in the
bare-minimum
> core rules...
>
>
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 57 From: Snafaru Date: 2/16/2000
Subject: DQOS r2000/02/16... rtf/pdf... perception.
Might as well put it all in the same message:

1. DQOS Release 2000/02/16 - added some monsters

2. Tried RTF format. Distributing in that format would mean no columns,
no tables (or I should say tables would be created using the courier
font because it has fixed spacing and lines using the "-" and the "+"
and the "|"!

3. Although receiving/exchanging the materiel in RTF format between the
people in the project is no problem I believe.

4. PDF, I believe, is the format of choice for general
presentation/distribution.

5. Starting Perception of 5 is too low, a bell curve of 4d5+3 is too
high, 8 seems to be the sweet spot for beginning characters.

Snafaru
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 58 From: John Rauchert Date: 2/17/2000
Subject: Re: DQOS r2000/02/16... rtf/pdf... perception.
> 2. Tried RTF format. Distributing in that format would mean no
columns,
> no tables (or I should say tables would be created using the courier
> font because it has fixed spacing and lines using the "-" and the "+"
> and the "|"!
>
> 3. Although receiving/exchanging the materiel in RTF format between
the
> people in the project is no problem I believe.
>

Yes RTF is slightly above straight ASCII but it seems as high as we can
go and still have most of us on the project group be able to open and
read it (and even that is a maybe). But it may save us some time in
the later layout stages.


> 5. Starting Perception of 5 is too low, a bell curve of 4d5+3 is too
> high, 8 seems to be the sweet spot for beginning characters.
>
Thanks everyone for their responses on Perception so far the concensus
seems to be to adopt the variant as presented in the Bantam Edition.
It also seems to be that the original Designer's were look that way as
well.

I am working on a discussion document for character generation that
will outline any changes I would consider making (taking into account
other source material put forward over the years) along with how I see
we move rules within a section or from section to section (For Example:
Rules tell me what my TMR is based on my modified Agility [5.6] but I
have just generated my stats I haven't chosen a race which may effect
my TMR and I definitely haven't chosen armor or gear which will effect
my TMR, so that this rule may actually be better off in another place.)

Teaser: Right now I am thinking that the only core rule character race
is Human.

JohnR
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 59 From: Todd Coy Date: 2/17/2000
Subject: rule clarification "unstunning"
I have been working on a project over the years of merging AW into the 2nd edition book, and also making some changes based on the campaign I play in.  It came to my attention that there is three different rules on unstun.  The first book uses WP + remaining FT.  the second book uses 2 x wp + remaining FT and the third book uses 3 x WP + remaining FT.  I was wondering what people use. 
 
Our campaign uses the 2 x WP variant.
 
 
Todd Coy  
ADP Employer Services
toddcoy@tir.com
1 (734) 995-6400 x6235
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 60 From: Rodger Thorm Date: 2/17/2000
Subject: Quick thoughts on many topics
Very quick notes before I leave for a weekend of *fun*:


Does character creation always have to be 'beginning characters'? I
have done some things with creating more advanced characters that I
would like to have us consider at some point (probably non-core)

Quick random thought: Use start PC = 5 for mages/ PC = 8 for
non-mages as a check on the 'free college of magic' issue?

I have always used 2 x WP + Current FT for unstun.

JohnR -- Do you have Klug's notes (from Ares, IIRC) about modifiers
for non-human races?

I would like to concentrate on Skills and Adventure, but I think
someone else needs to be on that along with me.

We should start putting a few reference things into HTML and using
our eGroups web space. A roster of who is leading which section, an
outline of core/non-core, etc. would all be useful to have without
having to spool through messages. John Corey seems to have web
resources & knowledge, so I'll nominate him, if he's interested... :-)?

Should Monsters be a separate project section?

I'm fairly sure I can use RTF with both of my current computers. I
prefer plaintext just because it is a more open standard (and hence
easier for *anyone* who wants to try out a beta version of something),
but RTF is pretty broadly supported, and will be workable for most
people, too. We should all be open and willing to send someone
plaintext if they want a docment in that form rather than RTF.

I'm intrigued by a humans-only core. I must say in principle I like
it. Makes it easy to install your own set of sentient races as fit
your particular campaign.

When posting here, please strip out the bulkloads of old text and
just cite the pertinent sections. It makes it easier to follow a
thread. I especially hate to see eGroups ad tags recycled and
re-recycled, but that's a personal pet peeve.

(I shouldn't be playing while I'm at work. I'm looking forward to
seeing what's new when I get back Monday.)

One last thought. I suggest we adopt the Bantam (softcover) Second
Edition as the reference standard for DQ OS. That way we are all on
the same page, figuratively and literally speaking.

--Rodger Thorm
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 61 From: john Corey Date: 2/17/2000
Subject: Re: rule clarification "unstunning"
"todd coy" <toddco-@tir.com> wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/dq-rules/?start=59
> I have been working on a project over the years of merging AW into
the 2nd edition book, and also making some changes based on the
campaign I play in. It came to my attention that there is three
different rules on unstun. The first book uses WP + remaining FT. the
second book uses 2 x wp + remaining FT and the third book uses 3 x WP +
remaining FT. I was wondering what people use.
>
> Our campaign uses the 2 x WP variant.

I use this variant as well. I also allow characters to attempt to
recover from stun, IF they have not acted yet in the pulse they were
stunned


>
>
> Todd Coy
> ADP Employer Services
> toddcoy@tir.com
> 1 (734) 995-6400 x6235
>
>
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 62 From: Snafaru Date: 2/17/2000
Subject: DQOS r000217 and lots more...
Here's today's work:

1. DQOS r000217, added monters: Mummy

2. DQOS r000217: added on 1st page list of DQOS project leaders which
goes like this:


DQ Open Source Section Leaders (our brave volunteers)

Overall DQOS Project Leader John F. Rauchert
Web page distribution of DQOS releases Eric Labelle (Snafaru)
Final release John Corey, Craig Brain
The First Book:, Section IV. Character Generation John F. Rauchert
The First Book:, Section V. Combat Eric Labelle (Snafaru)
The Second Book: Magic John Corey and his group

3. To follow up on a small discussion thread... If we stick to 2nd Ed.
(I believe we all agree on that?) as our "core rules/master rules" then
Unstunning would be 2xWP + current fatigue.

4. I put Poor Brendan's Almanac in the eGroup dq-rules' vault.

5. BIG ADDITION: I put the rules.zip file (sorry this is how I got it
from download, the unzipped result is a rules.pdf file) in the eGroup
dq-rules' vault. It is stuff I got on the web site of the boys in New
Zealand (I am not 100% certain, but I think this is where it came from
and I can't check since they have disappeared for about a year now).
Now this is the stuff a lot of people hasn't seen. If you have never
seen it, you'll probably feel overwhelmed because it is 160 pages long,
but it is like another Poor B. A., like lots of stuffs folks, and I
have quite a bit more coming. >>>>>>>>>John R. check out the copyright
(page 4?) on that thing and do you know what the GNU there is for or
what is is??? Thanks.

6. I added/posted a DQOS in RTF format on my site, can you all read it?
As I discussed previously it has no tables, no columns, just text and
fonts.

7. Enough for today, ouf! I'm tired.

Snafaru
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 63 From: John Rauchert Date: 2/18/2000
Subject: Re: DQOS r000217 and lots more...
> 5. BIG ADDITION: I put the rules.zip file (sorry this is how I got it
> from download, the unzipped result is a rules.pdf file) in the eGroup
> dq-rules' vault. It is stuff I got on the web site of the boys in New
> Zealand (I am not 100% certain, but I think this is where it came from
> and I can't check since they have disappeared for about a year now).
> Now this is the stuff a lot of people hasn't seen. If you have never
> seen it, you'll probably feel overwhelmed because it is 160 pages
long,
> but it is like another Poor B. A., like lots of stuffs folks, and I
> have quite a bit more coming. >>>>>>>>>John R. check out the copyright
> (page 4?) on that thing and do you know what the GNU there is for or
> what is is??? Thanks.

This is definitely the work of the Seagate Adventurer's Guild, I
approached them at the beginning of DQPA to come in as members this is
the response I got from Andrew Withy:

"John;
(A little background)
I am a member and ex-secretary of the Seagate Adventurers Guild. The DQ
Guild has dropped to 50 regular players & ~ 8-10 concurrent adventures,
down from 70-80 players a few years ago. On behalf of our club, I
would like to know the advantages of joining DQPA.

We run a multi-GM universe, which we have (slowly & painfully) learnt
means a different style of rules and GMing. For instance, the Illusion
college in DQ II is a fine, creative and interesting college. However,
it becomes unplayable when 15 different GMs interpret the limitations
of the college differently. We have had to create an entirely different
college to fulfill the needs of our campaign. These limitations, and
others based on the length of the campaign, would not be shared by most
campaigns. Our input would be distinctly different and slanted towards
our own needs. With GMs with up to 17 years experience in DQ, we are
unlikely to be co-operative members of a greater whole based on
different experiences and needs.

We can not allow you to use our rulebook in any formal sense, as this
would be breaching copyright that the WotC hold on DragonQuest. We are
only reprinting & annotating for private use at the moment, which is
vaguely covered by NZ copyright law. However, providing the rule book
for US usage will create legal problems.

After a full discussion, we are unkeen on you continuing to seek the DQ
trademark, for purely selfish reasons. This is likely to either remind
WotC of DQ's existence, and encourage a re-print, or you may
get the rights and re-print a version yourself. Either way, our legal
position in maintaining our rulebook becomes weaker. We have already
approached TSR & WotC (a Guild member owns a games importing business &
has a professional relationship with some of the WotC hierarchy) for
the DQ name and been turned down.

Right, now that the negative bit is over, it's great that you are
organising a DQPA. I look forward to hearing how our organisation and
yours can help each other. I'm sure that we can both gain benefits from
the association.

Andrew"

A few of Seagate Members are also members of DQPA: Martin Dickson,
Brent Jackson, Keith Smith. The group maintains a couple of web sites,
a listing of GM's is here: http://webnz.com/dragonquest/GM.html and it
seems they have snapped up the Domain name dragonquest.org.nz

The GNU (stands for GNU's Not Unix) Project was launched in 1984 to
develop a complete Unix-like operating system which is free software:
the GNU system. Variants of the GNU operating system, which use the
kernel Linux, are now widely used; though these systems are often
referred to as ``Linux'', they are more accurately called GNU/Linux
systems. http://www.gnu.org/

The GNU Project is largely responsible for the development of the
"copyleft" concept whereby copyright is maintained but modified by the
GPL (General Public License) http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/gpl.txt
distribution terms, which are a legal instrument that gives everyone
the rights to use, modify, and redistribute the program's code or any
program derived from it but only if the distribution terms are
unchanged. Thus, the code and the freedoms become legally inseparable.

What I find interesting is that they are attempting to freely
distribute something that is derived from a copyrighted work for which
the rights to freely distribute have not been given.

JohnR
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 64 From: john Corey Date: 2/18/2000
Subject: Re: Quick thoughts on many topics
> We should start putting a few reference things into HTML and using
> our eGroups web space. A roster of who is leading which section, an
> outline of core/non-core, etc. would all be useful to have without
> having to spool through messages. John Corey seems to have web
> resources & knowledge, so I'll nominate him, if he's interested...
:-)?

I would be happy to take that on. I am in a time crunch for the next
2-3 weeks, but after that I will have a lot of time to devote to this.
>
> Should Monsters be a separate project section?

YES!
>

> One last thought. I suggest we adopt the Bantam (softcover) Second
> Edition as the reference standard for DQ OS. That way we are all on
> the same page, figuratively and literally speaking.

I agree. As much as i love my second edition hard cover, the bantam
seems to be a little more prevelent.

>
> --Rodger Thorm
>
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 65 From: Todd E. Schreiber Date: 2/18/2000
Subject: Re: DQOS r000217 and lots more...
I'd like to toss my hat in for working on the open source rules as well.
I'd prefer to work in the Non-Spell casting areas. Preferably Skills and
Adventure sections.


-----Original Message-----
From: Snafaru <eric@iosphere.net>
To: dq-rules@eGroups.com <dq-rules@eGroups.com>
Date: Thursday, February 17, 2000 10:23 PM
Subject: [dq-rules] DQOS r000217 and lots more...


>Here's today's work:
>
>1. DQOS r000217, added monters: Mummy
>
>2. DQOS r000217: added on 1st page list of DQOS project leaders which
>goes like this:
>
>
>DQ Open Source Section Leaders (our brave volunteers)
>
>Overall DQOS Project Leader John F. Rauchert
>Web page distribution of DQOS releases Eric Labelle (Snafaru)
>Final release John Corey, Craig Brain
>The First Book:, Section IV. Character Generation John F. Rauchert
>The First Book:, Section V. Combat Eric Labelle (Snafaru)
>The Second Book: Magic John Corey and his group
>
>3. To follow up on a small discussion thread... If we stick to 2nd Ed.
>(I believe we all agree on that?) as our "core rules/master rules" then
>Unstunning would be 2xWP + current fatigue.
>
>4. I put Poor Brendan's Almanac in the eGroup dq-rules' vault.
>
>5. BIG ADDITION: I put the rules.zip file (sorry this is how I got it
>from download, the unzipped result is a rules.pdf file) in the eGroup
>dq-rules' vault. It is stuff I got on the web site of the boys in New
>Zealand (I am not 100% certain, but I think this is where it came from
>and I can't check since they have disappeared for about a year now).
>Now this is the stuff a lot of people hasn't seen. If you have never
>seen it, you'll probably feel overwhelmed because it is 160 pages long,
>but it is like another Poor B. A., like lots of stuffs folks, and I
>have quite a bit more coming. >>>>>>>>>John R. check out the copyright
>(page 4?) on that thing and do you know what the GNU there is for or
>what is is??? Thanks.
>
>6. I added/posted a DQOS in RTF format on my site, can you all read it?
>As I discussed previously it has no tables, no columns, just text and
>fonts.
>
>7. Enough for today, ouf! I'm tired.
>
>Snafaru
>
>
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Group: DQ-RULES Message: 66 From: John Rauchert Date: 2/18/2000
Subject: GNU GPL
Just to follow up this section is what makes claiming a GPL for a
DragonQuest supplement that includes a large bulk of the original Rules
Book tricky:

7. If, as a consequence of a court judgment or allegation of patent
infringement or for any other reason (not limited to patent issues),
conditions are imposed on you (whether by court order, agreement or
otherwise) that contradict the conditions of this License, they do not
excuse you from the conditions of this License. If you cannot
distribute so as to satisfy simultaneously your obligations under this
License and any other pertinent obligations, then as a consequence you
may not distribute the Program at all. For example, if a patent
license would not permit royalty-free redistribution of the Program by
all those who receive copies directly or indirectly through you, then
the only way you could satisfy both it and this License would be to
refrain entirely from distribution of the Program.

If any portion of this section is held invalid or unenforceable under
any particular circumstance, the balance of the section is intended to
apply and the section as a whole is intended to apply in other
circumstances.

It is not the purpose of this section to induce you to infringe any
patents or other property right claims or to contest validity of any
such claims; this section has the sole purpose of protecting the
integrity of the free software distribution system, which is
implemented by public license practices. Many people have made
generous contributions to the wide range of software distributed
through that system in reliance on consistent application of that
system; it is up to the author/donor to decide if he or she is willing
to distribute software through any other system and a licensee cannot
impose that choice.


JohnR
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 67 From: Todd Schreiber Date: 2/18/2000
Subject: Re: GNU GPL
That's nice, but copyright laws and patent
infringement are not entirely the same.

--- John Rauchert <john.rauchert@sait.ab.ca> wrote:
> Just to follow up this section is what makes
> claiming a GPL for a
> DragonQuest supplement that includes a large bulk of
> the original Rules
> Book tricky:
>
> 7. If, as a consequence of a court judgment or
> allegation of patent
> infringement or for any other reason (not limited to
> patent issues),
> conditions are imposed on you (whether by court
> order, agreement or
> otherwise) that contradict the conditions of this
> License, they do not
> excuse you from the conditions of this License. If
> you cannot
> distribute so as to satisfy simultaneously your
> obligations under this
> License and any other pertinent obligations, then as
> a consequence you
> may not distribute the Program at all. For example,
> if a patent
> license would not permit royalty-free redistribution
> of the Program by
> all those who receive copies directly or indirectly
> through you, then
> the only way you could satisfy both it and this
> License would be to
> refrain entirely from distribution of the Program.
>
> If any portion of this section is held invalid or
> unenforceable under
> any particular circumstance, the balance of the
> section is intended to
> apply and the section as a whole is intended to
> apply in other
> circumstances.
>
> It is not the purpose of this section to induce you
> to infringe any
> patents or other property right claims or to contest
> validity of any
> such claims; this section has the sole purpose of
> protecting the
> integrity of the free software distribution system,
> which is
> implemented by public license practices. Many
> people have made
> generous contributions to the wide range of software
> distributed
> through that system in reliance on consistent
> application of that
> system; it is up to the author/donor to decide if he
> or she is willing
> to distribute software through any other system and
> a licensee cannot
> impose that choice.
>
>
> JohnR
>
>
>
>
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Group: DQ-RULES Message: 68 From: John Rauchert Date: 2/18/2000
Subject: Re: GNU GPL
todd schreiber <sgrobbl-@yahoo.com> wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/dq-rules/?start=67
> That's nice, but copyright laws and patent
> infringement are not entirely the same.
>


Hence the statement "or for any other reason (not limited to patent
issues)"

You must remember that the GPL was written to only cover Software
distribution where Patent Law comes more into play than Copyright Law.

The basic meaning of this section there is a legal reason you can't
distribute something (due to patent or copyright infringement) then you
can't distribute the GPL legally either so it becomes void.

JohnR
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 69 From: John M. Kahane Date: 2/18/2000
Subject: Re: Sample rules coring
Hullo, JohnR,

>On Tue, 15 Feb 2000 05:33:48 -0800, John Rauchert wrote:

>Example of Rules Coring
>Taking our starting point as 2nd Edition. I do not forsee any
>substantive changes that we may want to consider until IV. Character
>Generation.

I would certainly agree with this, although perhaps we could
get Chirs Klug to do an update version of the Intro by the author to
explain some of what we have done in the DQOS....if he's willing, of
course. :)

>I would not add any additional Primary Characteristics and would
>consider them core.

Agreed. While additional, optional Characteristics are fine
they should be optional. The core ones are very good for the
purpose of DQ, and do their job admirably.

>Of the Secondary Characteristics/Optional characteristics Fatigue and
>Perception are core.
>TMR as a core quasi characteristic??

While TMR is certainly considered core for the 2nd Edition of
the game, I don't know whether I consider it a Characteristic. You
can't buy TMR up, it improves as Agility does so.

>Physical Beauty is not core make it an optional plug-in to core under
>Secondary Characteristics. Add rules for creating other optional
>characteristics (partly explained in [4.4] and [5.5]).

Agreed. I believe it is considered Secondary now, and while
we can make it optional as a plug-in, it seems to me to make sense
just to leave it as a Secondary as is.


... The instruments of darkness tell us truths. (MacBeth)

JohnK
jkahane@comnet.ca
http://www.comnet.ca/~jkahane
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 70 From: John M. Kahane Date: 2/18/2000
Subject: Re: I do have a job! Formatting
Hullo, JohnR,

>On Wed, 16 Feb 2000 04:32:39 -0800, John Rauchert wrote:

>> ...even if I haven't figured out what I'm supposed to be doing
>> here. :)

>If nothing else you can act as our voice of reason if we get too far
>out there and away from the original vision of DQ.

Sounds good to me, although I have to admit that I find it's
rather difficult at times to keep the "vision" of DQ straight. :)

... TAGLINETHETAGLINEPSITAGLINECORPSTAGLINEISTAGLINEYOURTAGLINEFRIENDTAGLINE...

JohnK
jkahane@comnet.ca
http://www.comnet.ca/~jkahane
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 71 From: John M. Kahane Date: 2/18/2000
Subject: The Messages Here...
Hullo, folks,

Can someone please tell me why I keep getting all of the
messages from this list separately, but they're HTML format? I keep
having to move the messages to an html viewer in order to read them,
and then cut-and-paste material back to the e-mail reader in order to
write mail... Awkward as heck. :(



... A good bookshop is just a genteel Black Hole that knows how to read. (G!G!)

JohnK
jkahane@comnet.ca
http://www.comnet.ca/~jkahane
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 72 From: John M. Kahane Date: 2/18/2000
Subject: Endurance, Fatigue, and Perception
Hullo, JohnR,

>On Wed, 16 Feb 2000 08:27:48 -0700, John Rauchert wrote:

>Since End is a primary characteristic I was not at this point going to touch
>it.

I'm glad to hear it. :)

>While Fatigue and Perception are secondary characteristics they are not to
>my mind optional characteristics, they are just too tied into the combat and
>magic systems,etc., so I think you can go ahead business as usual.

Yep, agreed.

>However, increasing Base Perception seems to be a common enough rule
>variation to add it to the core rules. Now all we have to agree upon is a
>value.

The base Perception value should be related to whether the
character is a Mercenary, Adventurer or Hero (as per the DQ rules
pertaining to advancing in level). We might try values of 5, 8, and
10 for these. I also allow my players to add 1/2 a D10 to that value
(rounded down), to give the characters a decent Perception value.
Again, one can present all manner of optional rules for this, and it
makes sense that this might be an optional rule...

... To err is human, but it's damn irritating when the text editor misses it!

JohnK
jkahane@comnet.ca
http://www.comnet.ca/~jkahane
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 73 From: John M. Kahane Date: 2/18/2000
Subject: Recover from Stun Rule
Hullo, folks,

>On Thu, 17 Feb 2000 10:03:52 -0500, Todd Coy wrote:

>>I have been working on a project over the years of merging AW into the 2nd edition book, and also making some changes based on the >>campaign I play in. It came to my attention that there is three different rules on unstun. The first book uses WP + remaining FT. the >>second book uses 2 x wp + remaining FT and the third book uses 3 x WP + remaining FT. I was wondering what people use.

>Our campaign uses the 2 x WP variant.

Like Todd's group, my gaming groups have always used the rule
out of 2nd Edition, which is (2 x WP) + remaining FT. I can see the
reasons for the increase from 1st Edition, and the Bantam version
even larger increase, but I think someone in the re-write of Bantam's
book decided they wanted to make it easer to recover from Stun.

... Did I make myself clear? Good, now tell me what I said.

JohnK
jkahane@comnet.ca
http://www.comnet.ca/~jkahane
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 74 From: john Corey Date: 2/19/2000
Subject: Concerns about this project
I hate to seem mecurial, or inconsistant (but that is the way that I am
so, that is the way it comes out) but I seriously question the value of
this project. I was into it when it seemed that what we were after was
a clarification of the rules. I was originally into the idea of "rules
coreing" but I have been thinking about it, and frankly I don't see the
point. I think everyone could use the "rules clarification", a set of
clarifications that run parallel to the rule book, and clear up a lot
of the pesky rules problems. This rules coring seems pointless. It
seems like it is not my project, nor something I am interested in. Why
would i want to get a version of the rules where the core for character
generation was "humans only". Sure there would be plugins for other
races. but those races are in the DQ game I already know and love, why
would we strip them out of the core rules? JohnR posted a message on
the DQ forum at WebRPG, and that got me thinking. What I really want
to do as GM is compile "my Rulebook", and originally I thought this
project could help, but now I am not so sure. This seems like JohnR's
project, and that is fine, but I just realized that it will not give me
anything I need. I ask the question again, what is the point of coreing
the rules, unless it is to rewrite them? And why would I want a
rewritten set of DQ rules? The rules are GREAT, they just have a few
weak spots. I know you guys are going to think I am insane, after my
previous enthusiam, but I do not think I have anything I can contribute
to this group. I started thinking about how I would core the magic
rules, and then I thought "I would keep all of the base rules!" And
then I would simply pull out the colleges of magic, only to reinsert
them in a supplement? to what end?
So, sorry to be a flake, but I am going to have to un-nominate myself
from any activities in this group. I will still check in and see what
is up, and if I have any rules or suggestions to contribute, I will let
you know.

Thanks
John Corey (Juanc1)
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 75 From: Snafaru Date: 2/19/2000
Subject: Re: Concerns about this project
For those having concerns about the project I hope to change your
minds:


I thought, well I though a new set of core rules was for a potential
futuristic setting of DQ?!?!? I though it was agreed that DQ 2nd Ed.
were the core rules!

I am sure what we are taking about in DQOS is the following that I've
been working on:

1. Rules clarifications with optional choices to suit the gm and their
campains.

2. Supplementary races. I've got stuff on gnomes, half-elf,
lizard-man... I'm not sure though if I can include it since it may be
copyright.

3. Supplementary rules. Example we could use things such as those
combat maneuvers as presented in the Poor Brendan's Almanac.

4. Supplementary Colleges of Magic. There is very nice stuff out there
:-)

5. Supplementary monsters. Some have blatently been missing. One of the
big ones I thing is the mummy, now that's a nice addition to your up to
no good baddies!

6. Supplementary equipement charts. Nice to know how much stuff costs
and weighs on average.

7. Supplementary skills. Again, nice stuff out there.

8. Lots of other stuff that needs an "expansion" or other ideas like
status, aspect, phases of the moon charts, calendar, falling damage,
secondary skills, other charts, etc., etc.

9. The Fourth Book: Arcane Wisdom should be included.

I don't know if I've convinced you but there is a lot of interesting
stuff out there. I am planning to continue working on it for sure and
am basing myself on DQ 2nd Ed. for the core rules.

If we want to do something about improving our game here's our chance.

Passion should be our driving force. No monetary issues nor some
companie's selfishness which is ignoring us should stop us from
accomplishing something. When I was a young kid I wouldn't know how or
what to do, now that I'm older and have more experience I know I can
actually do something about improving my favorite game and I am not
going to wait another 19 years.

Snafaru
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 76 From: Snafaru Date: 2/19/2000
Subject: DQOS release 00/02/18.
http://www.iosphere.net/~eric/dq


1. Added 5.4 Beginning Perception.

2. Added 19.1 Stun recovery - clarifications

3. Added Todd E. Schreiber to our project leader volunteers.

4. Corrected typos and formatting.

Snafaru
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 77 From: john Corey Date: 2/19/2000
Subject: Re: Concerns about this project
Snafaru,

You should read JohnR's posts again. From my understanding, he intends
to revisit the rules fro mthe bottom up. It has been suggested that we
strip out anything that is not "core", and make it modular. johnR was
working on the Character generation section, and that we was creating a
version that had only humans. then the other races could be plugged in
as desired. While that is a cool thought experiment, it is not
something I want to spend my time working on. If it were to decide on
new colleges of magic, or just incorporating AW, I would be all for it,
but read JohnR's posts about rules coreing again. i am not trying to
make him sound villinous, I am just pointing out that his professed
intention for this project does not jive with mine. i am interested in
expansions, but I can download my own, and incorporate them into my own
campagin very easily. For example, I download new skills all the time,
but I always change them when i do not feel they are in the spirit of
DQ.


"snafaru" <eri-@iosphere.net> wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/dq-rules/?start=75
> For those having concerns about the project I hope to change your
> minds:
>
>
> I thought, well I though a new set of core rules was for a potential
> futuristic setting of DQ?!?!? I though it was agreed that DQ 2nd Ed.
> were the core rules!
>
> I am sure what we are taking about in DQOS is the following that I've
> been working on:
>
> 1. Rules clarifications with optional choices to suit the gm and their
> campains.
>
> 2. Supplementary races. I've got stuff on gnomes, half-elf,
> lizard-man... I'm not sure though if I can include it since it may be
> copyright.
>
> 3. Supplementary rules. Example we could use things such as those
> combat maneuvers as presented in the Poor Brendan's Almanac.
>
> 4. Supplementary Colleges of Magic. There is very nice stuff out there
> :-)
>
> 5. Supplementary monsters. Some have blatently been missing. One of
the
> big ones I thing is the mummy, now that's a nice addition to your up
to
> no good baddies!
>
> 6. Supplementary equipement charts. Nice to know how much stuff costs
> and weighs on average.
>
> 7. Supplementary skills. Again, nice stuff out there.
>
> 8. Lots of other stuff that needs an "expansion" or other ideas like
> status, aspect, phases of the moon charts, calendar, falling damage,
> secondary skills, other charts, etc., etc.
>
> 9. The Fourth Book: Arcane Wisdom should be included.
>
> I don't know if I've convinced you but there is a lot of interesting
> stuff out there. I am planning to continue working on it for sure and
> am basing myself on DQ 2nd Ed. for the core rules.
>
> If we want to do something about improving our game here's our chance.
>
> Passion should be our driving force. No monetary issues nor some
> companie's selfishness which is ignoring us should stop us from
> accomplishing something. When I was a young kid I wouldn't know how or
> what to do, now that I'm older and have more experience I know I can
> actually do something about improving my favorite game and I am not
> going to wait another 19 years.
>
> Snafaru
>
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 78 From: Snafaru Date: 2/19/2000
Subject: Today's work...
... been combing through the 770 messages at WebRPG in order to find
clarifications about rules/magic etc.

... been to a few DQ sites.

The result is I found stuff I didn't know existed. I also have a better
knowledge of who has created what in the past 19 years.

What I found is very good stuff. Also, I feel it is not necessary to
try to re-invent the game. But I defenitely feel that it would be a
good thing to put all this stuff together and sorted/indexed in the
same document. Thus I'm going to continue working on the DQOS. I only
wish people will be kind enough to accept that I reproduce their work
in the DQOS. Of course, I'll make sure proper credit is given.

Snafaru
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 79 From: Todd E. Schreiber Date: 2/20/2000
Subject: Re: Concerns about this project
I have to agree with John Corey, I am in no way interested in any project
that overhauls the existing rules. I am only interested in adding new
rules, clarifying existing rules, and in some rare cases, correcting
existing rules. Such as coming up with a standard starting Perception.
Standardizing the method for giving out XP based upon
Mercenary/Adventurer/Heroe status (possibly even adding Super Hero?) Fixing
some of the obvious gaffs in rules, like the Main Gauche defense adjustment,
or filling in blanks, like Two weapon fighting style. Clarifying confusing
rules, like stunning, evasion/parry, damage from magic, illusions, etc. I
will in no way support this stripping out the "core" rules and plugging in
crap. It sounds to me like trying to create an entirely new game system
based upon existing DQ rules. I'm not interested in that.



>Snafaru,
>
>You should read JohnR's posts again. From my understanding, he intends
>to revisit the rules fro mthe bottom up. It has been suggested that we
>strip out anything that is not "core", and make it modular. johnR was
>working on the Character generation section, and that we was creating a
>version that had only humans. then the other races could be plugged in
>as desired. While that is a cool thought experiment, it is not
>something I want to spend my time working on. If it were to decide on
>new colleges of magic, or just incorporating AW, I would be all for it,
>but read JohnR's posts about rules coreing again. i am not trying to
>make him sound villinous, I am just pointing out that his professed
>intention for this project does not jive with mine. i am interested in
>expansions, but I can download my own, and incorporate them into my own
>campagin very easily. For example, I download new skills all the time,
>but I always change them when i do not feel they are in the spirit of
>DQ.
>
>
>"snafaru" <eri-@iosphere.net> wrote:
>original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/dq-rules/?start=75
>> For those having concerns about the project I hope to change your
>> minds:
>>
>>
>> I thought, well I though a new set of core rules was for a potential
>> futuristic setting of DQ?!?!? I though it was agreed that DQ 2nd Ed.
>> were the core rules!
>>
>> I am sure what we are taking about in DQOS is the following that I've
>> been working on:
>>
>> 1. Rules clarifications with optional choices to suit the gm and their
>> campains.
>>
>> 2. Supplementary races. I've got stuff on gnomes, half-elf,
>> lizard-man... I'm not sure though if I can include it since it may be
>> copyright.
>>
>> 3. Supplementary rules. Example we could use things such as those
>> combat maneuvers as presented in the Poor Brendan's Almanac.
>>
>> 4. Supplementary Colleges of Magic. There is very nice stuff out there
>> :-)
>>
>> 5. Supplementary monsters. Some have blatently been missing. One of
>the
>> big ones I thing is the mummy, now that's a nice addition to your up
>to
>> no good baddies!
>>
>> 6. Supplementary equipement charts. Nice to know how much stuff costs
>> and weighs on average.
>>
>> 7. Supplementary skills. Again, nice stuff out there.
>>
>> 8. Lots of other stuff that needs an "expansion" or other ideas like
>> status, aspect, phases of the moon charts, calendar, falling damage,
>> secondary skills, other charts, etc., etc.
>>
>> 9. The Fourth Book: Arcane Wisdom should be included.
>>
>> I don't know if I've convinced you but there is a lot of interesting
>> stuff out there. I am planning to continue working on it for sure and
>> am basing myself on DQ 2nd Ed. for the core rules.
>>
>> If we want to do something about improving our game here's our chance.
>>
>> Passion should be our driving force. No monetary issues nor some
>> companie's selfishness which is ignoring us should stop us from
>> accomplishing something. When I was a young kid I wouldn't know how or
>> what to do, now that I'm older and have more experience I know I can
>> actually do something about improving my favorite game and I am not
>> going to wait another 19 years.
>>
>> Snafaru
>>
>
>
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Group: DQ-RULES Message: 80 From: John Rauchert Date: 2/20/2000
Subject: Re: Concerns about this project
First things first:
"This seems like JohnR's project"

This group [dq-rules] is for discussion and distribution of Dragon
Quest rules, variants and revisions.

There are currently 17 members of the discussion group and of the 79
messages I have posted 24 (30%), JohnC has posted 22 (28%), and John K
has posted 16 (20%) [just looking at these stats you might think it's a
John project].

Officially as part of DQOS, I am working on Section IV, Character
Generation seven and a bit pages of a total of 147 pages of rules and I
sit as a normally non-voting member [I get a vote as "tie-breaker"] on
the oversight committee.

I also see that I am listed as the Overall Project Leader, which was
not my original intent, but I was going to talk to Rodger about that
when he gets back from the weekend (he may or may not want that
responsibility with his pending arrival of a bundle of joy).

I can see how it might look like "my project" since to date I have
posted documents on how we might organize the project and how we might
approach the rules. It should be noted that I use the word "might"
since what I have put forward so far are my commments only that I have
posted for discussion [the stated purpose of this group].

"What I really want to do as GM is compile my Rulebook."

It is entirely my own thought that we may want to produce something
here that is more than just a rules supplement of new skills and new
magical colleges (which quite rightly can be done outside of this
project as Poor Brendan's Almanac illustrates). It is my thought that
we might want to create the framework that lays out the ground rules
for making additions/changes to DQ to ensure that these
additions/changes are consistent with the spirit of DQ and work with
the existing system. This is in part so that GMs CAN create their own
rulebooks, but done in a manner that allows everyone to create their
own rulebooks by selecting those pieces they want add, so that DQ isn't
just the rulebook one particular person, group or way of thinking.

I basically see JohnC's concerns as a debate between two different
approaches:

JohnR's approach (rules coring concept):

When I started to think about what I call "rules coring", I took ideas
from two sources. The first is the work that has been done on 3ed D&D
(horrors). The approach the design team took was to go through the
rules, rule by rule, and identify what were to them sacred cows of the
D&D system in order to preserve those things that give D&D its
particular flavour (regardless of what we feel of that flavour). The
second was the work done on the Linux system (or at least my
understanding of it) where people are free to add to the System
surrounding an stable kernel which can only be modified by Linus
Torvalds.

What I proposed is that we identify which rules make up that core
system, what modifications if any (like changing the starting value of
perception) we would make, add any clarifications and come up with a
process for making changes to these rules in the future. Then we take
the rules that are left over and say ok these are the open part of our
open source project. Here we would take a look at the representative
sample of these rules and see what makes them tick and write a set of
guidelines on how a GM could create their own rules. My major concern
here is that these "non-core rules" or "plug-ins" should not make major
alternations to the core system that we have identified. As an example,
if I wrote a skill, say Magical Theory, that states that just by taking
3rd Rank in this skill I get +2 bonus to my Magical Aptitude, then that
skill would effect a whole host of other rules. The basic idea is that
a GM should be free to pick and choose which Races, Skills, and Magical
Colleges that he/she wants in a campaign and not worry about the effect
that that has on the overall rules system.

By the way, this approach is not necessarily a new one in DragonQuest
as the following quote illustrates:

"A third concept in mind during the design process was to maintain the
game's flexibility, and allow the GM and players to expand on the
original rules. The modular presentation of skills and magic colleges
makes the introduction of new ideas easy; adding a new skill or college
does not necessitate changing the original ones." from the 2ed
DragonQuest Introduction.

True this does not comment on leaving rules out but the principle is
the same if I don't want to use a particular race or skill or magical
college I should be able to drop it without "breaking" the system.

The rules coring concept also does not stop the use of variant core
rules (I mentioned in another post the
set of core rules could also include modular variants that act in the
same manner. For example, it may be possible for a 1st edition
Enthusiast to develop an Action Point variant that replaces Tactical
Movement Rate in Combat with guidelines on converting monster TMR to
AP). The caution I would have there is that these variants should also
not "break" the core game system.


JohnC's approach (rules clarification concept):

Based on the following quotes, I will present what I think is JohnC's
approach (of course only JohnC can do so correctly).

"I think everyone could use the 'rules clarification', a set of
clarifications that run parallel to the rule book, and clear up a lot
of the pesky rules problems."

"And why would I want a rewritten set of DQ rules? The rules are GREAT,
they just have a few
weak spots."

"I would keep all of the base rules!"

This approach strikes me as similar to one found mostly in literature
and religious studies called "Commentaries", defined as a systematic
series of explanations or interpretations (as of a writing).
[totally off topic: I found one on the net that is particularly
interesting, The Star Wars Technical Commentaries http://www.theforce.n
et/swtc/]
Commentaries are particularly important in the discussion and
interpretation of the Bible since it is viewed as the revealed word of
God and by cannot be rewritten by strict injunction (although that
hasn't stopped people from trying). Since the word can not be changed
the only recourse for examination is done through the commentaries.

Commentaries are often rich and thought provoking documents, but they
always tied directly to the Canonical Text. The danger of this approach
when taken to extremes is that no rule within the DragonQuest Canon (a
sanctioned or accepted group or body of related works) is open to
change. The game system stagnates and the only growth comes from
voluminous debates and apocrypha (material that is non-canon fan
developed rules).

If the only reason reason for JohnC's departure is disagreement with me
over the above concepts, then I would hope he would continue to
participate and the group can discuss the ultimate approach we want to
take, which may be neither one the above.

We are just getting warmed up, I think there will be much more
contentious issues in the months ahead. The First Ecumenical Council
of Nicea in AD 325 by all accounts was fairly ruckus affair too.

One of things I said around the concept of rules coring that I should
clarify because it seems to have gotten people a bit steamed up.

"Why would i want to get a version of the rules where the core for
character generation was "humans only". Sure there would be plugins for
other races. but those races are in the DQ game I already know and
love, why would we strip them out of the core rules?"

When I was looking at Character Generation I got to the section on
non-human races. I got to thinking about DQ games I have been in over
the years which have excluded, added, or changed non-human races.

Then I applied my core/noncore concept, if you dropped all the
non-human races as they are currently written what would happen to the
game system?

As it turns out, not much purely in terms of game mechanics (in terms
of the flavour of the overall game system maybe alot). Humans are left
in core because they are necessary to run the rest of Character
Generation (and I have never run in a game where humans didn't exist).
Just because non-humans under this way of thinking are considered
noncore it does not mean we remove them from the rules. It maybe we
would have to write a section outlining how to add additional races
(which MAY involve rewriting 6.3 and including separate Heritage Tables
for each race).


JohnR
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 81 From: John Rauchert Date: 2/20/2000
Subject: Re: Concerns about this project
"todd e. schreiber" <todd.schreibe-@platinumcrown.com> wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/dq-rules/?start=79
> I have to agree with John Corey, I am in no way interested in any
project
> that overhauls the existing rules. I am only interested in adding new
> rules, clarifying existing rules, and in some rare cases, correcting
> existing rules. Such as coming up with a standard starting
Perception.
> Standardizing the method for giving out XP based upon
> Mercenary/Adventurer/Heroe status (possibly even adding Super Hero?)
Fixing
> some of the obvious gaffs in rules, like the Main Gauche defense
adjustment,
> or filling in blanks, like Two weapon fighting style. Clarifying
confusing
> rules, like stunning, evasion/parry, damage from magic, illusions,
etc.

For a person in no way interested in overhauling existing rules you
sure list alot of changes you would like to make to the existing rules.
8C)

Perhaps even further than I would have gone with the rule coring
concept.

> I
> will in no way support this stripping out the "core" rules and
plugging in
> crap. It sounds to me like trying to create an entirely new game
system
> based upon existing DQ rules. I'm not interested in that.
>
Read my reply to JohnC's original post.

It is not my intention to create a new game system. It is my intention
to develop an "open source" view of the rules that allows GM to
add/remove/adapt some components of the game system to suit their
individual campaigns with a minimum of problems and with the assurance
that by doing so they are not breaking other parts of the system.

As an example, if I remove Perception because I don't like that
characteristic. I have to live with the consequence that Perception is
used throughout the rules for a number of things and when I remove it
lots of rules break. My approach says hey Perception is a core rule you
shouldn't delete it and we are going to keep it in any release of DQOS.
Now Physical Beauty well that is non-core, yeah you have to use it if
you use the Courtesan skill, but otherwise your are free to drop it if
you want and it won't effect anything else.

Please note the above is an example of what might take place and to be
taken literally.

JohnR
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 82 From: John Rauchert Date: 2/20/2000
Subject: Re: Concerns about this project
That should be and NOT to be taken literally.

Sorry, but I've been up all night typing this stuff.
JohnR

> Please note the above is an example of what might take place and to be
> taken literally.
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 83 From: Rodger Thorm Date: 2/21/2000
Subject: Re: The Messages Here...
"john m. kahane" <jkahan-@comnet.ca> wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/dq-rules/?start=71
> Hullo, folks,
>
> Can someone please tell me why I keep getting all of the
> messages from this list separately, but they're HTML format?

John--

Your preferences setting for this eGroup was set to convert to HTML.
(It may have defaulted to that when you subscribed, or for some other
reason been set that way. This is something you can all change in your
user profile.) I have changed your (JohnK) setting to 'No conversion,'
so this should set things right, but if it isn't please let me know,
and we'll investigate further. Anyone else with this problem should
try this out, too.

--RT
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 84 From: Rodger Thorm Date: 2/21/2000
Subject: Organization
A lot happens when you go away for a weekend; you guys were busy!

Appologies to JohnK for HTMLizing this note, but I wanted to make some emphases clear to make sure I was making my point. (Side note, for those who are interested: we got my entire house full of furniture and books, books, and more books loaded into a 24' long truck, drove it 300 miles, and then unloaded it all into a 10' x 20' storage cubicle. It was amazing to see the truck completely emptied in just 1 hour (literally) with the help of a few friends and family.) size

I think the whole question of what this project is and how it will ultimately organize itself is still being worked out, and it is far too early for anyone to bail on the project. (John C, please come back; we need you.)

We are still in the process of forming what this group's goals will be, and I think that we need everyone's input. The intent of this project, I think, is to be as inclusive and as helpful to all current and future players of DQ as we can be, and to that end, if half the group here is feeling that their needs are not being served, then we are not headed in the right direction.

I think (personal opinion) that identifying a 'Core Set' of DQ rules, which is a subset of 2nd Edition DragonQuest, Bantam Printing from which to base all variants, and then being able to add or subtract anything else based on that common starting point is a wonderful long-range goal, but it isn't the most important thing to work on to completion right now. An outline of what is essential core would be useful as a reference document, but I don't think it's what we should all start with. Most people will probably stick with DQ 2nd Ed. as their 'Core Rules,' and that's fine, too. But I think that we can go through the rules and point out what things need to be looked at (and possibly revised at some point), and what we consider to be the essential base.

I agree with John Rauchert's concept (or, more accurately, my own vision of where this project is headed is similar to his) of DQ as a Linux-like entity, with a group of us writing, testing, and revising, and ultimately sanctioning and web-publishing additions to the DQ rules. To take 'Poor Brendan's Almanac' as an example, that is the sort of thing, for the near term, that I envision us producing. But the idea is that it has been playtested by several different groups and that we have come to a general consensus that it is balanced, that it works within the system and that it continues the spirit and flavor of DragonQuest. Rather than all of us piecemeal making our own tweaks and additions, we all get together and work on it collectively. Sure we can all keep on writing stuff for our own campaigns. And we certainly have the right to use what we like and toss the rest. That's how it has been up until now. But as a group, we can pool our efforts, test out rules and report back to the rest, revise and rewrite until we have it right. As the Linux people say, "Many eyes make bugs shallow;" the more of us working together, the clearer and better the rules will be.

If, sometime well down the road, we get to the point where the whole thing takes on its own life, then we see about transforming it into it's own game system or something like that. But that's not now.

What do I see as this group's starting points? Here is a list of a few things:
- I would like to see the various colleges of magic playtested by different groups.
- I would like to see a regular 'Arena of Death' that meets on WebRPG Online to test out new weapons and combat rules.
- I would like to see a list of additional Skills which should be added to the game (and here I see two debates: the first being what skills should be added, and the second being how then to write those skills rules).
- I would like to see discussions that begin with, "Do you think there should be a rule for X in DQ..."
- I would like to see rules additions, revisions, clarifications and substitutions written, discussed, tested and eventually produced for all DQ players' use.
This is just my version of how things should go, however.

What is most important is that we agree on a system we all feel we can contribute to in order to improve on DragonQuest without screwing it up. It's a tall order, but I think we are up to it.

-- Rodger Thorm

Group: DQ-RULES Message: 85 From: John Rauchert Date: 2/22/2000
Subject: Re: Organization
Thanks Rodger for clarifying some of the immediate goals of this project. I agree that there is a big difference between long term "visions" vs. immediate "plans". I tend to see myself as a visionary (or a wastrel dreamer depending on who you talk to) and I admit not very good at the day-to-day stuff, so if you want me to come up with a grand scheme I'm your man just don't try to get me to implement it. I will begin to work on what Rodger's suggests as a sideline project of my own and if I manage to produce something that I think is worthy of debate by this August Body I will present it for review. "An outline of what is essential core would be useful as a reference document, but I don't think it's what we should all start with." Meanwhile I will have to get back to work on Character Generation, I want to have a base document of possible areas for clarification/revision/addition in your hands within a couple of weeks (I was going to get a jump on it this weekend but other things came up) to act as a basis for discussion. It will be mostly a cut and paste composite of all the variants that people have proposed over the years, thanks to Snafaru (I even hope to sneak some of mine in there). John F Rauchert, Character Generation
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 86 From: john Corey Date: 2/22/2000
Subject: Re: Organization How does Snafaru's work fit in?
That is a great plan, but it seems like we have two groups working at
cross purposes here. Using the guidleines you have defined above, the
work that Snafaru has been doing does not really fit in. His
clarifications can be incorperated, but the rest sounds like it need to
be put on hold until this other work is done? Do I understand you
correctly?
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 87 From: Rodger Thorm Date: 2/22/2000
Subject: Re: Organization How does Snafaru's work fit in?
"john corey" <joh-@westpole.com> wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/dq-rules/?start=86

> work that Snafaru has been doing does not really fit in. His
> clarifications can be incorperated, but the rest sounds like it need
to
> be put on hold until this other work is done? Do I understand you
> correctly?

I must admit that I haven't yet taken a close look at the things that
Snafaru has compiled, until now. (Been a lot of traffic in this group
to keep me busy enough.) But I took a look (albeit briefly) just
before sitting down to write this, and I think the DQ OS document is a
very useful document.

There are a number of new creatures, which should be playtested by a
couple of groups. Some of these creatures should be included in any
expansion of DQ rules, while I think others may be open to debate.
Let's see about getting that debate started.

Some of the rules commentary gathers together the discussion about
interpreting rules of the game. Clarifications an rewrites of existing
rules when there is a common understanding may also be part of the DQ
OS work. Spell damage is an excellent example. Snafaru has already
gathered some information. Working with a complete spell list, we can
discuss which spells do END damage and which do not, and compile a
master list which everyone would find useful.

I think Snafaru's tables and summaries are wonderful tools, but they
aren't really the product of group decision making, they are merely
good compilations of information. Those, I would suggest putting into
a nice .PDF package and releasing on their own -- a set of players'
reference sheets, sort of like the Excel character sheet (something
else I need to play with sometime).

Again, these are just my thoughts on the matter. Additional insight
and opinion may be better than my ideas. But to my mind, this is all
working in a general and unified direction that I think all will find
useful. If I'm off the mark, let me know.

--Rodger Thorm
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 88 From: Rodger Thorm Date: 2/23/2000
Subject: New Skills for DragonQuest
There has been a lot of theoretical what-are-we-going-to-do discussion
going on here, and not too much content, so I thought I would get a new
content discussion going. I will be away again this coming weekend,
but this will be my last road trip for a while, barring any unseen
complications. Hopefully this will get not only some
opinion/counteropinion going, but will lead to some further discussion
and enlightenment about the direction of the whole project.

So, my question is really fairly simple: What skills should be in
DragonQuest? (More specifically, which ones should be there and aren't
there now?) Are there any skill which should be eliminated?

A few options for consideration are already on the table:
* Diplomat, Herbalist, and Hunter from "Poor Brendan's Almanac"
* Weaponer and Armorer (I'll see about posting these if they aren't
around somewhere else already)
* Constable and Detective (were in an issue of DQN a few years back)
The following can all be found at Holwinkle's site
(http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Portal/7471/DQ/rmsu/index.html):
* Acrobat, Esoteric and Scholar skills
* Knight skill
* Naval Skills
* Administrator, Engineer, Miner/Prospector, Scribe, Farmer, Lore

What do you think?

--Rodger Thorm
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 89 From: john Corey Date: 2/23/2000
Subject: Re: New Skills for DragonQuest
> So, my question is really fairly simple: What skills should be in
> DragonQuest? (More specifically, which ones should be there and
aren't
> there now?) Are there any skill which should be eliminated?


I guess i would have two important guidelines. First, do they fill a
voiud in the DragonQuest system? For example, a Knight skill would be
a good addition, but maybe a Hunter does not.
My second criteria is that they are true to DQ mechanics. I have
downloaded some skills that have Attribute requirements, and bonuses
for for hoigh attribute scores. that may be good for someones
campaign, but I do not recall seeing rules similar to that in the 2nd
edition rule book. So I would say include the skill, but strip out all
of the "House Rules"
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 90 From: Snafaru Date: 2/23/2000
Subject: Re: New Skills for DragonQuest
I agree with you Rodger. There is definitely place for the skills from
the PBA. I also see other skills at another site (can't remember who's
site it is but it is at http://www.phoenix.org/atlantis/DQfiles/DQMain.
shtml On that site there is an interesting approach between skills (as
we know them) and secondary skills.

As for Magic Colleges I've pinpointed a few sites. I have to ask these
poeple if they'll allow us to incorporate their Colleges in DQOS.
Rodger, can I include the Colleges from the Almanac in DQOS.

Also, since I'm leader of the combat section, I also would like to ask
you permission to put in DQOS the extra combat rules as optional combat
tactics, it would be a nice addition. Making those new combat rules
optional would have the result of giving gms and players new options
but not necessarily imposing them upon them.

What I'm getting at with this message is that I am near the phase of
adding a big chunk to DQOS. The purpose is to built a stronger
backbone. What I'm going to put in is obviously not written in stone,
stuff can change/be added/be removed. If we want to progress, it is
necessary to put something down so that we have something to work with.

Snafaru
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 91 From: Todd Schreiber Date: 2/23/2000
Subject: Re: New Skills for DragonQuest
I have to disagree with the Knight skill being a
useful addition. A knight would simply be a person
with horsemanship, many high weapon skills, including
lance, possession of good armor, etc. I don't see
what value a separate knight skill would add. It
seems much more like a roleplaying issue.

I see the hunting skill as something that should be
part of the Ranger skill, since hunting requires
knowledge of animals, terrain, tracking, etc.

We should remember that DQ characters are who they are
role played to be, not a set class, such as in AD&D.
Just because one has some Ranger skill does not mean
that the character is a "Ranger". He may simply be a
seasoned adept adventurer with many fields of
knowledge, including outdoor skills, as well as many
other possibilities.


> I guess i would have two important guidelines.
> First, do they fill a
> voiud in the DragonQuest system? For example, a
> Knight skill would be
> a good addition, but maybe a Hunter does not.
> My second criteria is that they are true to DQ
> mechanics. I have
> downloaded some skills that have Attribute
> requirements, and bonuses
> for for hoigh attribute scores. that may be good
> for someones
> campaign, but I do not recall seeing rules similar
> to that in the 2nd
> edition rule book. So I would say include the
> skill, but strip out all
> of the "House Rules"
>
>
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 92 From: John Rauchert Date: 2/23/2000
Subject: Re: New Skills for DragonQuest
"rodger thorm" <dq-@ntsource.com> wrote:
> A few options for consideration are already on the table:
> * Diplomat, Herbalist, and Hunter from "Poor Brendan's Almanac"
> * Weaponer and Armorer (I'll see about posting these if they aren't
> around somewhere else already)
> * Constable and Detective (were in an issue of DQN a few years back)
> * Acrobat, Esoteric and Scholar skills
> * Knight skill
> * Naval Skills
> * Administrator, Engineer, Miner/Prospector, Scribe, Farmer, Lore

I make a distinction between what I consider to be
Professional/Occupational skills and "Adventure"/Life Skills.

Professional skills like Ranger,Thief, Troubador is a cluster of
abilities modified by rank.

Adventure Skills like most weapons, Horsemanship, R/W Languages and
Stealth are a single ability applied to a particular situation or set
of situations.

Probably the most commonly added Adventure Skill is Swimming followed
by Hunting. I think there is a need to expand skills in this area.

Professional skills should not be added unless they show they are
filling a logical gap in the DQ system. Is there really the need for a
rank 10 farmer?

John
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 93 From: john Corey Date: 2/24/2000
Subject: Re: New Skills for DragonQuest
> I have to disagree with the Knight skill being a
> useful addition. A knight would simply be a person
> with horsemanship, many high weapon skills, including
> lance, possession of good armor, etc. I don't see
> what value a separate knight skill would add. It
> seems much more like a roleplaying issue.

You are right. Maybe a diplomat, or scholar are better examples of
voids in the DragonQuest systems
>
> I see the hunting skill as something that should be
> part of the Ranger skill, since hunting requires
> knowledge of animals, terrain, tracking, etc.
>

So you see what I am saying, just don't agree with my examples
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 94 From: Snafaru Date: 2/26/2000
Subject: DQOS release 00/02/25
Trying to make things go forward:

1. added climbing, falling, jumping. (Thanks Todd)

2. added a "credits and contributions" page.

3. did some formatting (trying to ensure it'll print on all printers)

4. contacted a few people by e-mail. Hopefully they'll let us include
the DQ material they have on their websites in DQOS.


Please everyone, try to view the project in a positive way. It will
take some time to revise it, to play-test it, to improve it, to have an
acceptable format, to make it worthwhile. We are still a the very
beginning of it. Give it a chance. We have nothing to lose by trying.
Let's build it one brick at a time.

http://www.iosphere.net/~eric/dq

Eric
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 95 From: John M. Kahane Date: 2/28/2000
Subject: DQOS Project Thoughts
Hullo, Eric,

>On Fri, 25 Feb 2000 23:57:30 -0800, Snafaru wrote:

>Please everyone, try to view the project in a positive way. It will
>take some time to revise it, to play-test it, to improve it, to have an
>acceptable format, to make it worthwhile. We are still a the very
>beginning of it. Give it a chance. We have nothing to lose by trying.
>Let's build it one brick at a time.

While I agree with your sentiments above quite clearly, Eric,
it's the concept of where DQ Open Source is going that I don't think
I'm sure of at this point. I've seen John Corey's concerns about
this, and to some extent I agree with him. DRAGONQUEST, 2nd Edition
is the core rules of the game (whether we're talking the SPI or the
Bantam version of it is another matter entirely). The Open Source
project should start by addressing the matter of the core rules that
need clarification and some cleaning up, although in all the years of
running DQ that I have I can't say that I or my players have ever had
problems with some of the rules interpretations that I've seen
discussed over the last year or so.

Once we finish the clarifications of the core rules, then worry
about the new material for the game.

Again, just my 2 cf. :)

... Get a taste of religion - lick a witch!

JohnK
jkahane@comnet.ca
http://www.comnet.ca/~jkahane
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 96 From: Serge Rancour Date: 2/29/2000
Subject: Re: DQOS release 00/02/25
>http://www.iosphere.net/~eric/dq
>
>Eric


Just a note on formatting.

The *.rtf file at the above site is unreadable on Wordperfect 7. If this
file was done on MSWord, that could explain it. From my experience, the rtf
files produced by some versions of Word are somehow "unique" and not
necessarily compatible with non-MS programs.

I'm mentioning this since saving to RTF using MSWord may be defeating the
purpose of saving to a universal format. I would suggest either using a
different word-processor or dropping the rtf fromat (save yourself the
space).

-Serge
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 97 From: John Rauchert Date: 2/29/2000
Subject: Re: DQOS release 00/02/25
RE: [dq-rules] Re: DQOS release 00/02/25

Eric,
can you bring this file into Wordpad and then save it as RTF from there and get Serge or someone to test it again to see if Wordpad is using a simpler (more compatible) version of RTF than Word?

Really the RTF version is only for DQOS Developers so that we have files we can manipulate not as a publically consumable product.

John

-----Original Message-----
From: Serge Rancour [mailto:rancour@sprint.ca]
Sent: February 29, 2000 10:21 AM
To: dq-rules@eGroups.com
Subject: [dq-rules] Re: DQOS release 00/02/25




>http://www.iosphere.net/~eric/dq
>
>Eric


Just a note on formatting.

The *.rtf file at the above site is unreadable on Wordperfect 7.  If this
file was done on MSWord, that could explain it.  From my experience, the rtf
files produced by some versions of Word are somehow "unique" and not
necessarily compatible with non-MS programs.

I'm mentioning this since saving to RTF using MSWord may be defeating the
purpose of saving to a universal format.  I would suggest either using a
different word-processor or dropping the rtf fromat (save yourself the
space).

-Serge





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Group: DQ-RULES Message: 98 From: Serge Rancour Date: 2/29/2000
Subject: Re: DQOS release 00/02/25
RE: [dq-rules] Re: DQOS release 00/02/25
FWIW, I just tried it for myself and it works.  Whatever bug MSWord introduced, it was purged by using "Save As..." <Rich Text Format (RTF)> on WordPad (Win95).
 
Note that if it's just for me, you needn't bother - I can simply use WordPad or download another format.  My original post assumed that RTF was in use because it was a broadly readable format.  [However, it is something to keep in mind when these rules are later formatted for the public.]
 
-Serge
 
 
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From: John Rauchert <john.rauchert@sait.ab.ca>
Date: Tuesday, February 29, 2000 1:10 PM

 

Eric,
can you bring this file into Wordpad and then save it as RTF from there and get Serge or someone to test it again to see if Wordpad is using a simpler (more compatible) version of RTF than Word?

Really the RTF version is only for DQOS Developers so that we have files we can manipulate not as a publically consumable product.

John

 

Group: DQ-RULES Message: 99 From: Snafaru Date: 2/29/2000
Subject: Contributions - Status
Yesterday's post didn't go through, so instead of typing all over,
here's a paste of a message send to a contributor:

---------------
Hi Stephen,

Thank you for sending me Worldly Endeavor. I would say I saw 60-75% of
it on other sites. At least 25% I've never seen. There seems to be many
house rules for swimming and climbing and jumping all over the net, I'm
not sure how I'm going to sort it all out. Another tough part is to
sort out what are DQ skills as we know them in the 2nd Ed and what are
secondary skills and what are professions... what is really a skill and
what is role-playing... for example on e-Group for DQOS people were
more inclined to say that a Knight was something you role-play and
should not be a skill. Of course others may think differently... on the
other hand we don't want DQ to start looking like Advanced Dungeons &
Dragons.

Thanks again for WE.

Eric

P.S. I put a copy of this message on DQOS e-Group
---------------

Sorting it all out is going to be difficult. Still waiting responses
from other major sites. So, I'm continuing the effort. Althought I'm
sure some of you may feel bitter and start thinking that what is in
DQOS is crap or junk but please thing positively, all the materiel will
be reviewed and the crap and junk thrown out!

Snafaru
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 100 From: john Corey Date: 3/1/2000
Subject: Re: Contributions - Status thanks
Nice work Snafaru! I have seen Wordly Endevour, and i made the point
about the Professions being too D&D, and he responded by saying they
were intended for creating NPCs. In that context I think they are a
great idea.

JohnC