Messages in DQ-RULES group. Page 11 of 40.

Group: DQ-RULES Message: 506 From: Anthony N. Emmel Date: 4/27/2003
Subject: Re: Skipping Ranks
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 507 From: Bruce Probst Date: 4/28/2003
Subject: Re: Skipping Ranks
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 508 From: Steven Wiles Date: 4/28/2003
Subject: Re: Skipping Ranks
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 509 From: Rodger Thorm Date: 4/28/2003
Subject: Re: Skipping Ranks
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 510 From: Rodger Thorm Date: 4/29/2003
Subject: Re: OpenRPG DragonQuest Conversion
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 511 From: John Rauchert Date: 4/29/2003
Subject: Re: OpenRPG DragonQuest Conversion
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 512 From: Deven Atkinson Date: 5/11/2003
Subject: Re: Skipping Ranks
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 513 From: Richard Date: 5/12/2003
Subject: Will somebody *please* explain this to me!?
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 514 From: John Rauchert Date: 5/12/2003
Subject: Re: Will somebody *please* explain this to me!?
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 515 From: John Rauchert Date: 5/12/2003
Subject: Re: Will somebody *please* explain this to me!?
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 516 From: Martin Gallo Date: 5/12/2003
Subject: Re: Will somebody *please* explain this to me!?
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 517 From: Bruce Probst Date: 5/13/2003
Subject: Re: Will somebody *please* explain this to me!?
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 518 From: greyareabeyond Date: 5/22/2003
Subject: Changes from 1st ed. to 2nd ed.
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 519 From: John Corey Date: 5/22/2003
Subject: Re: Changes from 1st ed. to 2nd ed.
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 520 From: Kurgan Date: 5/22/2003
Subject: Re: Changes from 1st ed. to 2nd ed.
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 521 From: Bruce Probst Date: 5/24/2003
Subject: Re: Changes from 1st ed. to 2nd ed.
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 522 From: Richard Date: 5/29/2003
Subject: Bulltypo?
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 523 From: Jim Goltz Date: 5/30/2003
Subject: Re: Bulltypo?
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 524 From: Richard Date: 5/30/2003
Subject: Re: Bulltypo?
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 525 From: Copley, Ron Date: 5/30/2003
Subject: Re: Bulltypo?
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 526 From: Richard Date: 5/30/2003
Subject: Here's one you might have missed...
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 527 From: Bruce Probst Date: 5/31/2003
Subject: Re: Bulltypo?
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 528 From: Rodger Thorm Date: 5/31/2003
Subject: Re: Bulltypo?
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 529 From: Richard Date: 6/1/2003
Subject: Re: Bulltypo?
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 530 From: Richard Date: 6/3/2003
Subject: Let's have a war!
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 531 From: Richard Date: 6/3/2003
Subject: Let's have a war!
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 532 From: Rodger Thorm Date: 6/3/2003
Subject: Re: Let's have a war!
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 533 From: Jim Goltz Date: 6/3/2003
Subject: Re: Bulltypo?
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 534 From: Peter Cordner Date: 6/3/2003
Subject: Re: Let's have a war!
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 535 From: Copley, Ron Date: 6/4/2003
Subject: Re: Bulltypo?
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 536 From: john franklin Date: 6/8/2003
Subject: Re: Digest Number 153
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 537 From: Richard Date: 6/16/2003
Subject: called shots/hit location
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 538 From: Bruce Probst Date: 6/17/2003
Subject: Re: called shots/hit location
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 539 From: John Corey Date: 6/17/2003
Subject: Re: called shots/hit location
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 540 From: Richard Date: 7/2/2003
Subject: Re: called shots/hit location
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 541 From: gmartinez@medioambiente.gov.ar Date: 7/2/2003
Subject: Re: called shots/hit location
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 542 From: Rodger Thorm Date: 7/2/2003
Subject: Re: called shots/hit location
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 543 From: John Rauchert Date: 7/2/2003
Subject: Re: called shots/hit location
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 544 From: Bruce Probst Date: 7/3/2003
Subject: Re: called shots/hit location
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 545 From: Bruce Probst Date: 7/3/2003
Subject: Re: called shots/hit location
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 546 From: dq-rules@yahoogroups.com Date: 7/5/2003
Subject: New file uploaded to dq-rules
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 547 From: Esko Halttunen Date: 7/5/2003
Subject: Optional Aspects
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 548 From: pitkinave44310 Date: 7/7/2003
Subject: Naval Combat
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 549 From: hollywood314@juno.com Date: 7/13/2003
Subject: Aspect Comments
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 550 From: Esko Halttunen Date: 7/15/2003
Subject: Re: Aspect Comments
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 551 From: Esko Halttunen Date: 7/15/2003
Subject: Re: Optional Aspects
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 552 From: Steven Wiles Date: 7/15/2003
Subject: Re: Optional Aspects
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 553 From: hollywood314@juno.com Date: 7/16/2003
Subject: Re: Aspect Comments
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 554 From: jcorey30 Date: 7/16/2003
Subject: Re: Optional Aspects
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 555 From: Esko Halttunen Date: 7/17/2003
Subject: File Formats for Online Stuff



Group: DQ-RULES Message: 506 From: Anthony N. Emmel Date: 4/27/2003
Subject: Re: Skipping Ranks
Chello!

jcorey30 <john@dragonquestadventures.com> wrote:

But if the time is great enough, and the character has enough exp,
couldn't they advance two ranks between an adventure?

 

Nope.  Because the next paragraph says: "A character musr have attempted an ability or skill on the adventure previous to a gain in that ability or skill."

I've always thought of that as along the lines of CoC's experience check system...you have to attempt the skill for A GAIN in rank.  NOT "gains".

Tony



Anthony N. Emmel

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Group: DQ-RULES Message: 507 From: Bruce Probst Date: 4/28/2003
Subject: Re: Skipping Ranks
On Sun, 27 Apr 2003 21:41:43 -0700 (PDT), "Anthony N. Emmel"
<lord_kjeran@yahoo.com> wrote:

>>But if the time is great enough, and the character has enough exp,
>>couldn't they advance two ranks between an adventure?
>
>Nope. Because the next paragraph says: "A character musr have attempted an ability or skill on the adventure previous to a gain in that ability or skill."
>
>I've always thought of that as along the lines of CoC's experience check system...you have to attempt the skill for A GAIN in rank. NOT "gains".

I agree.

There are a number of skills that can be difficult to define as "attempted"
in a meaningful sense ... reading and writing for example, or various minor
craft skills that I used in my campaign.

For such, I just used a blanket rule ... no more than 1 Rank increase per
"break", where a break is defined as being a period of rest, recovery and XP
expenditure. Essentially, a PC must "adventure" before spending XP to
increase something more than 1 Rank (or point, in the case of
characteristics).

Artificial to be sure, but some skills are very cheap, especially to an
"adventurer" or "hero", and spare time is not hard to come by if you have a
bunch of fighters working to improve a lot of weapon skills. (2 x Rank in
weeks, no more than 2 weapons at a time, can consume a lot of weeks in
training for people who have multiple highly-ranked weapons. That leaves
people *not* doing this with a lot of time on their hands.) Without a
limit, characters could go away for a couple of months and come back as a
master horseman (or whatever).

----------------------------------------------------------------
Bruce Probst bprobst@netspace.net.au ICQ 6563830
Canberra, Australia MSTie #72759 SCA #80160
"And now, the most instantly unappealing character in film history."
ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 508 From: Steven Wiles Date: 4/28/2003
Subject: Re: Skipping Ranks
--- jcorey30 <john@dragonquestadventures.com> wrote:
> Here is the rule in question:
> 87.1
> A character must satisfy all requirements to
> increase in rank by one in an ability or
> skill before he can again increase it by one. Thus
> a character may never "skip" ranks.
>
> that is frequently taken to mean that a character
> can only increase 1 rank between
> adventures. But if the time is great enough, and
> the character has enough exp,
> couldn't they advance two ranks between an
> adventure?
>
> johnC

Before I joined my first DQ group, I understand that
they allowed people to advance in Rank between
adventures as much as they wanted, XP allowing.
Unfortunately, it didn't take long for some people to
realize that you get XP just for resting between
adventures, too. The end result was a group that
would decide to take a year or two off from
adventuring and spontaneously jump from Mercenary to
Adventurer to Hero level. My GM at the time related
the example of a starting Earth Mage who went from
Rank 0 to 10 (or maybe it was 20?) in Diamond Javelin
"between" adventures. Which was to say, went from a
peon to a harbinger of pointy death between
adventures.

I believe the point of the "only one Rank per
campaign" rule is to prevent the rules lawyering abuse
that getting XP between adventures engenders. I know
that the aforementioned group's GM quickly adopted the
rule.

Personally, I like the rule. It keeps character
development steady and reasonably paced, and
encourages characters to diversify their abilities a
bit. It's not entirely self-consistent (how do
non-adventurers get Rank?), but that sort of thing
doesn't worry me too much. :) Whether the rule works
for your group would, I think, depend a lot on the
style of the campaign. YMMV.

Steven

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Group: DQ-RULES Message: 509 From: Rodger Thorm Date: 4/28/2003
Subject: Re: Skipping Ranks
I often have long, multi-session adventures with large between-adventure gaps of time, and I will allow characters to advance two Ranks in these periods. I like the rule as well, but since my campaign meets infrequently, it has been beneficial to allow the larger jumps so that the characters have some sense of progress.

The rule makes a lot of sense for game balance. I don't think that it is out of line for a GM to tweak it according to local conditions.

--Rodger
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 510 From: Rodger Thorm Date: 4/29/2003
Subject: Re: OpenRPG DragonQuest Conversion
Hey John--

Can you fill us in a bit more on what this is?

--- jcorey30 <john@dragonquestadventures.com> wrote:
> I have never even heard of this, but I would be
> interested to learn
> more.
>
> --- In dq-rules@yahoogroups.com, "john_rauchert"
> <john.rauchert@s...>
> wrote:
> > I am considering implementing the DragonQuest
> Rules on OpenRPG as a
> > way of learning Python programming and honing my
> XML skills.
> >
> > I am interested in finding out:
> >
> > If anybody currently uses or have used OpenRPG and
> what their
> > feelings are about it.
> >
> > Whether anyone has done any conversion work on
> this already.
> >
> > JohnR
>
>


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Group: DQ-RULES Message: 511 From: John Rauchert Date: 4/29/2003
Subject: Re: OpenRPG DragonQuest Conversion
RE: [dq-rules] Re: OpenRPG DragonQuest Conversion

OpenRPG is a system for playing games (board and rpgs) online, similar to WebRPG and GRIP.

It consists of the typical dicerolling utility, shared map board (to which you can add figures for running combat and a chat utility for communication.

OpenRPG allows you to extend this basic setup by adding a character sheet, custom figures, a monster manual, and other features that I have yet to explore.

These add-ons are done through XML documents and I believe in order to customize the character sheet you need to know some Python programming.

I am looking at undertaking such a project, but I first wanted to know if there had been any work done on this before I start since I don't want to do anymore work than I have to :)

JohnR

-----Original Message-----
From: Rodger Thorm [mailto:rodger_thorm@yahoo.com]
Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2003 7:24 AM
To: dq-rules@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [dq-rules] Re: OpenRPG DragonQuest Conversion

Hey John--

  Can you fill us in a bit more on what this is?

--- jcorey30 <john@dragonquestadventures.com> wrote:
> I have never even heard of this, but I would be
> interested to learn
> more.
>
> --- In dq-rules@yahoogroups.com, "john_rauchert"
> <john.rauchert@s...>
> wrote:
> > I am considering implementing the DragonQuest
> Rules on OpenRPG as a
> > way of learning Python programming and honing my
> XML skills.
> >
> > I am interested in finding out:
> >
> > If anybody currently uses or have used OpenRPG and
> what their
> > feelings are about it.
> >
> > Whether anyone has done any conversion work on
> this already.
> >
> > JohnR
>
>


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Group: DQ-RULES Message: 512 From: Deven Atkinson Date: 5/11/2003
Subject: Re: Skipping Ranks
What Steven describes also happened in a game I was in. We soon realized
how boring it was, and adopted a more strict interpretation.
One of the fun things that can happen is that actually playing the skill in
an adventure can lead to some interesting character building. While trying
to advance in Horsemanship, one of the players kept getting bad die rolls
when using the skill. The player decided that character had a dislike for
horses, and that gave a depth to his character. If he had just jumped to a
high level, the character would have just been another cardboard cutout
Conan. The slow advancemant of skills, and the impact that adventures have
on the skill building, help to flesh out a character in a more realistic way
in DQ than any other RPG I have played. It is one of the main reasons I
like it so much.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Steven Wiles" <mortdemuerte@yahoo.com>
To: <dq-rules@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, April 28, 2003 12:21 PM
Subject: Re: [dq-rules] Skipping Ranks


> --- jcorey30 <john@dragonquestadventures.com> wrote:
> > Here is the rule in question:
> > 87.1
> > A character must satisfy all requirements to
> > increase in rank by one in an ability or
> > skill before he can again increase it by one. Thus
> > a character may never "skip" ranks.
> >
> > that is frequently taken to mean that a character
> > can only increase 1 rank between
> > adventures. But if the time is great enough, and
> > the character has enough exp,
> > couldn't they advance two ranks between an
> > adventure?
> >
> > johnC
>
> Before I joined my first DQ group, I understand that
> they allowed people to advance in Rank between
> adventures as much as they wanted, XP allowing.
> Unfortunately, it didn't take long for some people to
> realize that you get XP just for resting between
> adventures, too. The end result was a group that
> would decide to take a year or two off from
> adventuring and spontaneously jump from Mercenary to
> Adventurer to Hero level. My GM at the time related
> the example of a starting Earth Mage who went from
> Rank 0 to 10 (or maybe it was 20?) in Diamond Javelin
> "between" adventures. Which was to say, went from a
> peon to a harbinger of pointy death between
> adventures.
>
> I believe the point of the "only one Rank per
> campaign" rule is to prevent the rules lawyering abuse
> that getting XP between adventures engenders. I know
> that the aforementioned group's GM quickly adopted the
> rule.
>
> Personally, I like the rule. It keeps character
> development steady and reasonably paced, and
> encourages characters to diversify their abilities a
> bit. It's not entirely self-consistent (how do
> non-adventurers get Rank?), but that sort of thing
> doesn't worry me too much. :) Whether the rule works
> for your group would, I think, depend a lot on the
> style of the campaign. YMMV.
>
> Steven
>
> __________________________________
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> The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
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>
>
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>
>
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 513 From: Richard Date: 5/12/2003
Subject: Will somebody *please* explain this to me!?
I hope I'm not the only one who has never really been able to figure
this out. And, believe me, I've tried and not by myself, either. Let
me quote the problem...

from [6.9], special ability 5.
"Take the difference between the average for each characteristic in
animal and human form, and modify the human characteristics
appropriately."

Is it just me or does this really not make much sense? Really, all
I'm looking for is an example of how this works... let's just say I'm
from Missouri. ;)

Thanks,
R.
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 514 From: John Rauchert Date: 5/12/2003
Subject: Re: Will somebody *please* explain this to me!?
RE: [dq-rules] Will somebody *please* explain this to me!?

There was a DragonQuest Newsletter that dealt with Shape Changers in that issue, I had an article that give you the numbers for various types of shapechangers.

http://johnrauchert.brinkster.net/dq/archive/dqnewsletter/dqv2n4.htm

Basically the idea is you take average an average human characteristic score vs. the average score of the animal you are changing into and figure out how many points that is + or -

    Wolf   Tiger   Bear   Boar   Stag

PS    -4     +10     +20    +9     +8
MD    +4     +9      -3     +1     +6
AG    +4     +12     -3     +7     +9
MA     -      -       -      -      -
WP    +5     -5      -5     -8     -5
EN    +2     +7      +17    +7     +2
FT    +9     +5      +13    +5     +1
PC    +15   +13      +13    +7     +15
TMR    8      9        6     7      13
NA    3DP    3DP     4DP    4DP    3DP
PB    -8     -8      -7     -7     -3

I think I got them right but you might want to check for yourself.

There was an addendum in one of Ares issues that showed you how to convert FT and EN back and forth as well which I included in the article.

-----Original Message-----
From: Richard [mailto:demon_star2002@yahoo.com]
Sent: Monday, May 12, 2003 10:51 AM
To: dq-rules@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [dq-rules] Will somebody *please* explain this to me!?

I hope I'm not the only one who has never really been able to figure
this out. And, believe me, I've tried and not by myself, either. Let
me quote the problem...

from [6.9], special ability 5.
"Take the difference between the average for each characteristic in
animal and human form, and modify the human characteristics
appropriately."

Is it just me or does this really not make much sense? Really, all
I'm looking for is an example of how this works... let's just say I'm
from Missouri. ;)

Thanks,
R.


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Group: DQ-RULES Message: 515 From: John Rauchert Date: 5/12/2003
Subject: Re: Will somebody *please* explain this to me!?
RE: [dq-rules] Will somebody *please* explain this to me!?

To calculate on your own.

 

Average Human Stat (except for Perception, I believe) is 15

 

A wolf has a PS range from 10-12  Therefore take the average 10+12/2 = 11 and subtract the Average Human Stat 11 - 15 = -4

 

I think the article's chart has some personal changes and PC is based on a base of 5 not 8.

 

-----Original Message-----
From: John Rauchert [mailto:john.rauchert@sait.ab.ca]
Sent: Monday, May 12, 2003 11:01 AM
To: 'dq-rules@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [dq-rules] Will somebody *please* explain this to me!?

 

There was a DragonQuest Newsletter that dealt with Shape Changers in that issue, I had an article that give you the numbers for various types of shapechangers.

http://johnrauchert.brinkster.net/dq/archive/dqnewsletter/dqv2n4.htm

Basically the idea is you take average an average human characteristic score vs. the average score of the animal you are changing into and figure out how many points that is + or -

    Wolf   Tiger   Bear   Boar   Stag

PS    -4     +10     +20    +9     +8
MD    +4     +9      -3     +1     +6
AG    +4     +12     -3     +7     +9
MA     -      -       -      -      -
WP    +5     -5      -5     -8     -5
EN    +2     +7      +17    +7     +2
FT    +9     +5      +13    +5     +1
PC    +15   +13      +13    +7     +15
TMR    8      9        6     7      13
NA    3DP    3DP     4DP    4DP    3DP
PB    -8     -8      -7     -7     -3

I think I got them right but you might want to check for yourself.

There was an addendum in one of Ares issues that showed you how to convert FT and EN back and forth as well which I included in the article.

-----Original Message-----
From: Richard [mailto:demon_star2002@yahoo.com]
Sent: Monday, May 12, 2003 10:51 AM
To: dq-rules@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [dq-rules] Will somebody *please* explain this to me!?

I hope I'm not the only one who has never really been able to figure
this out. And, believe me, I've tried and not by myself, either. Let
me quote the problem...

from [6.9], special ability 5.
"Take the difference between the average for each characteristic in
animal and human form, and modify the human characteristics
appropriately."

Is it just me or does this really not make much sense? Really, all
I'm looking for is an example of how this works... let's just say I'm
from Missouri. ;)

Thanks,
R.

 

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Group: DQ-RULES Message: 516 From: Martin Gallo Date: 5/12/2003
Subject: Re: Will somebody *please* explain this to me!?
Well, I currently reside in MO and I understand it. Here is what I do:

Take the average value for a particular statistic. For Human PS, that
would be 15.

Then take the character's value and calculate the percentage of that
average. If your character has a PS of 18, then the percentage would
be 18/15 = 1.2

Next calculate the average of the animal form for that characteristic
and multiply it by the percentage just calculated. If the average PS
of the animal you are looking at is 22, then the character's PS in
that animal form is 22*1.2 = 26.4, which rounds to 26.

Simple and easy, really. This is the method I also use for Giants and the like.

Marty

>I hope I'm not the only one who has never really been able to figure
>this out. And, believe me, I've tried and not by myself, either. Let
>me quote the problem...
>
>from [6.9], special ability 5.
>"Take the difference between the average for each characteristic in
>animal and human form, and modify the human characteristics
>appropriately."
>
>Is it just me or does this really not make much sense? Really, all
>I'm looking for is an example of how this works... let's just say I'm
>from Missouri. ;)
>
>Thanks,
>R.
>
>
>
>To Post a message, send it to: dq-rules@eGroups.com
>To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: dq-rules-unsubscribe@eGroups.com
>
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like it would be fun to try." - James Rea, 2003
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 517 From: Bruce Probst Date: 5/13/2003
Subject: Re: Will somebody *please* explain this to me!?
On Mon, 12 May 2003 14:06:27 -0500, Martin Gallo <martimer@mindspring.com>
wrote:

>Then take the character's value and calculate the percentage of that
>average.

No, it's not based on percentages. It's based on straight difference, i.e.,
addition/subtraction.

You can see this in any but 3rd edition by comparing the stat modifiers of
PC non-humans to those of NPCs of the same race. E.G., if a Dwarf PC has a
PS of +2, you look at NPC dwarves and you see that their average PS is 17.

3rd edition mucked about with the modifiers and threw this relationship out
of whack.

I always assume that "adventuring" humans and their equivalents (e.g.,
well-trained guards, that kind of thing) have average stats of 15 in
everything (including PC). Your run-of-the-mill average man has 10 in
everything. I seem to recall that this is strongly implied (if not
explicitly stated) in the descriptions of the stats at the beginning of the
rules. (I further extrapolate by assuming young children have values equal
to their age, i.e., a 5-yr-old has 5 in everything, an 8-yr-old has 8, and
so on.)

None of this explains why PCs start with such crappy PC compared to everyone
else in the universe, but I figure that's some kind of play-balancing
provision.

----------------------------------------------------------------
Bruce Probst bprobst@netspace.net.au ICQ 6563830
Canberra, Australia MSTie #72759 SCA #80160
"Hey, someone turn off the fat rotating guy."
ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 518 From: greyareabeyond Date: 5/22/2003
Subject: Changes from 1st ed. to 2nd ed.
Years ago I sold my 2nd ed. hardcover of Dragonquest. I haven't been
able to find a copy although I may be able to get a copy of the first
edition (the one that came in three books). Were there drastic
changes between the two?
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 519 From: John Corey Date: 5/22/2003
Subject: Re: Changes from 1st ed. to 2nd ed.
the biggest difference is the combat system, the system uses action
points, instead of TMR. It is pretty different. The second edition
PDFs are in the files section of one of these groups. either dqn-list,
or dq-rules
On Thursday, May 22, 2003, at 10:00 PM, greyareabeyond wrote:

> Years ago I sold my 2nd ed. hardcover of Dragonquest. I haven't been
> able to find a copy although I may be able to get a copy of the first
> edition (the one that came in three books). Were there drastic
> changes between the two?
>
>
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>
>
> To Post a message, send it to:   dq-rules@eGroups.com
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Group: DQ-RULES Message: 520 From: Kurgan Date: 5/22/2003
Subject: Re: Changes from 1st ed. to 2nd ed.
Hello greyareabeyond,


Isn't it strange how sometimes the prices for DQ stuff can go
through the roof, and then later drop down to normal? A couple of
months ago, I decided to sell my collectible DQ stuff because I
needed the money and saw that everything was selling for a LOT on
eBay. The original boxed edition and the hardcover were selling
for over a hundred bucks apiece. So I listed mine, which are both
in mint condition, and I even started them at much lower than
they'd been selling for, but damned if I didn't get *any* bids!
Really weird.



Best regards,

Kurgan mailto:Kurgan@Fastmail.fm
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 521 From: Bruce Probst Date: 5/24/2003
Subject: Re: Changes from 1st ed. to 2nd ed.
On Fri, 23 May 2003 02:00:33 -0000, "greyareabeyond"
<greyareabeyond@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Years ago I sold my 2nd ed. hardcover of Dragonquest. I haven't been
>able to find a copy although I may be able to get a copy of the first
>edition (the one that came in three books). Were there drastic
>changes between the two?

Cripes, yes.

The most major change was the new combat system.

The other major change was that experience awards and experience costs were
heavily revised. In general, most things became cheaper.

----------------------------------------------------------------
Bruce Probst bprobst@netspace.net.au ICQ 6563830
Canberra, Australia MSTie #72759 SCA #80160
"If he straps on a rubber glove I'm leaving."
ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 522 From: Richard Date: 5/29/2003
Subject: Bulltypo?
under section [81.4] of the Open Source a bull is listed as being a
mere 150 sp. Is this right?


Later,
R.
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 523 From: Jim Goltz Date: 5/30/2003
Subject: Re: Bulltypo?
Richard writes:
r> under section [81.4] of the Open Source a bull is listed as being a
r> mere 150 sp. Is this right?

Probably. Considering a cow costs 60 sp, this is right in line; and I
seem to remember in one of the printed versions that a decent meal
costs < 10 sp.

Some of the other prices seem unusually low, though. How does a pound
of oranges end up costing less than a half-pound of saffron?!

--
James P. Goltz <goltz@mmert.org>
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 524 From: Richard Date: 5/30/2003
Subject: Re: Bulltypo?
So much for the Tain Bo Cuilaigne, eh?


Later,
R. (Ponderosa, here I come!)


--- In dq-rules@yahoogroups.com, Jim Goltz <goltz@m...> wrote:
> Richard writes:
> r> under section [81.4] of the Open Source a bull is listed as
being a
> r> mere 150 sp. Is this right?
>
> Probably. Considering a cow costs 60 sp, this is right in line; and
I
> seem to remember in one of the printed versions that a decent meal
> costs < 10 sp.
>
> Some of the other prices seem unusually low, though. How does a
pound
> of oranges end up costing less than a half-pound of saffron?!
>
> --
> James P. Goltz <goltz@m...>
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 525 From: Copley, Ron Date: 5/30/2003
Subject: Re: Bulltypo?
> Probably. Considering a cow costs 60 sp, this is right in
> line; and I seem to remember in one of the printed versions
> that a decent meal costs < 10 sp.
>
> Some of the other prices seem unusually low, though. How does
> a pound of oranges end up costing less than a half-pound of saffron?!

OK, after I figured out that a "bulltypo" wasn't some strange and
magical creature out of a Medaeval beastiary and was actually a typo for
"bull typo", I actually can help with something.

Saffron is actually just the stamens collected from a certain type of
flower (type evades me, I think it may be some sort of tulip).
Collecting any amount of significance is quite labour-intensive. Of
course, oranges have to travel quite a long way, but the initial
shipment is the most costly, as the orange tree is very resilient and
can thrive most anywhere that isn't arctic.

Hope this helps as to why the saffron is so expensive...

Cheers,
Ron
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 526 From: Richard Date: 5/30/2003
Subject: Here's one you might have missed...
Fantasy Modeling
Winter Issue (1980)
AN INTERVIEW WITH ERIC GOLDBERG
Eric Goldberg, the master adventure games inventor, talks to our
editor.
by Mike Kilbert

Not too terribly informative from a DQ standpoint. They discuss
KURSK, JOHN CARTER OF MARS, COMMANDO, and DRAGONQUEST (1st ed.)

He didn't like the combat rules or the cover art (surprise!)


Later,
R.
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 527 From: Bruce Probst Date: 5/31/2003
Subject: Re: Bulltypo?
On Fri, 30 May 2003 12:00:40 -0400, Jim Goltz <goltz@mmert.org> wrote:

>Some of the other prices seem unusually low, though. How does a pound
>of oranges end up costing less than a half-pound of saffron?!

In medieval times saffron was extremely expensive. It's hand-gathered by a
quite slow and arduous process. It was worth its weight in gold for its
delicate flavour and for its food colouring properties.

----------------------------------------------------------------
Bruce Probst bprobst@netspace.net.au ICQ 6563830
Canberra, Australia MSTie #72759 SCA #80160
"What do you think, sirs?"
ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 528 From: Rodger Thorm Date: 5/31/2003
Subject: Re: Bulltypo?
Take a look at it in your local market next time you go. My local prices (US$) are:
oranges ~$1 per pound
saffron ~$16.50 per .06 oz
that works out to $275/oz or $4400/pound
gold ~ $365/oz

Saffron today is still a pretty pricey commodity. And it is still hand gathered, which contributes to its high cost.

I'm not sure who put together the price list you were looking at. Several compiled price lists are out there. The one I created for "Poor Brendan's Almanac" has oranges for 5sp/pound and rare spices (including saffron) average price of 100gs/pound (which is 1200sp/pound).

--RT

-------Original Message-------
From: Bruce Probst <bprobst@netspace.net.au>
Sent: 05/31/03 03:05 AM
To: dq-rules@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [dq-rules] Bulltypo?

>
> On Fri, 30 May 2003 12:00:40 -0400, Jim Goltz <goltz@mmert.org> wrote:

>Some of the other prices seem unusually low, though. How does a pound
>of oranges end up costing less than a half-pound of saffron?!

In medieval times saffron was extremely expensive. It's hand-gathered by
a
quite slow and arduous process. It was worth its weight in gold for its
delicate flavour and for its food colouring properties.

----------------------------------------------------------------
Bruce Probst bprobst@netspace.net.au ICQ 6563830
Canberra, Australia MSTie #72759 SCA #80160
"What do you think, sirs?"
ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ



To Post a message, send it to: dq-rules@eGroups.com
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>
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 529 From: Richard Date: 6/1/2003
Subject: Re: Bulltypo?
> OK, after I figured out that a "bulltypo" wasn't some strange and
> magical creature out of a Medaeval beastiary and was actually a
typo for
> "bull typo", I actually can help with something.


FWIW, I actually meant to do that.


Later,
R.

PS- "Medaeval", on the other hand, is a typo. ;P
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 530 From: Richard Date: 6/3/2003
Subject: Let's have a war!
Are there any mass combat rules for DQ out there? Not miniatures
rules, mind you, but pencil & paper tabletop stuff.


Later,
R.
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 531 From: Richard Date: 6/3/2003
Subject: Let's have a war!
Are there any mass combat rules for DQ out there? Not miniatures
rules, mind you, but pencil & paper tabletop stuff.


Later,
R.
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 532 From: Rodger Thorm Date: 6/3/2003
Subject: Re: Let's have a war!
I know that Simon Cordner did a lot of work on that
front some time back. I don't know if anything ever
got into wider distribution. I think he still follows
the groups, so he may chime in on his own.

I also think that there is a strong candidate from
SPI's own stable of games. A few years back, I
discovered SPI's PRESTAGS (PRE-Seventeenth-century
TActical Game System), which probably would've been
adapted for use as DQ's mass-combat system, had the
company stayed in business. There are several
features in the game that value leaders and leadership
that would seem to be an easy fit with, and extension
of, Military Scientist rules.

SPI also used PRESTAGS as the base rule-set for their
famous Lord of the Rings game. I have never
personally looked at a copy of that, so I don't know
what additional rules they incorporated to deal with
heroes and magic.

--Rodger Thorm


--- Richard <demon_star2002@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Are there any mass combat rules for DQ out there?
> Not miniatures
> rules, mind you, but pencil & paper tabletop stuff.
>
>
> Later,
> R.
>
>


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Group: DQ-RULES Message: 533 From: Jim Goltz Date: 6/3/2003
Subject: Re: Bulltypo?
I wrote:

jg> Some of the other prices seem unusually low, though. How does a
jg> pound of oranges end up costing less than a half-pound of
jg> saffron?!

I think I meant that the other way around. In any event, saffron is
far too inexpensive in the rules cited.

--
James P. Goltz <goltz@mmert.org>
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 534 From: Peter Cordner Date: 6/3/2003
Subject: Re: Let's have a war!
Lurker ahoy, mates.

http://www.geocities.com/mean_liar/dq.htm

The link is called "Mass Combat", and there's a link to a zip on the page
containing the rules in doc format. You'll probably want to check out the
"Siege" link as well.

Its been a while since I used them, but they've been playtested a few times
already. You can email me at mean_liar@hotmail.com with any comments,
feedback, or questions.

(Simon) Peter Cordner
aka mean_liar

_________________________________________________________________
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Group: DQ-RULES Message: 535 From: Copley, Ron Date: 6/4/2003
Subject: Re: Bulltypo?
>
> FWIW, I actually meant to do that.
>
>
> Later,
> R.
>
> PS- "Medaeval", on the other hand, is a typo. ;P

I realised that a scant microsecond after the "Send" button was
depressed. And, it is actually funnier since it was on purpose. I have
devoted no small part of my time to envisioning the bulltypo. And
flogging myself for mis-spelling mediaeval.

Cheers,
Ron
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 536 From: john franklin Date: 6/8/2003
Subject: Re: Digest Number 153
>>>Message: 3
�� Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 07:58:50 -0700 (PDT)
�� From: Rodger Thorm <rodger_thorm@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Let's have a war!

I also think that there is a strong candidate from
SPI's own stable of games.� A few years back, I
discovered SPI's PRESTAGS (PRE-Seventeenth-century
TActical Game System), which probably would've been
adapted for use as DQ's mass-combat system, had the
company stayed in business.� There are several
features in the game that value leaders and leadership
that would seem to be an easy fit with, and extension
of, Military Scientist rules.

SPI also used PRESTAGS as the base rule-set for their
famous Lord of the Rings game.� I have never
personally looked at a copy of that, so I don't know
what additional rules they incorporated to deal with
heroes and magic.

� --Rodger Thorm

Prestags Materpack was the first SPI game I ever bought. The combat system
was very simple, sort of the basic SPI engine of 1-1, 2-1, 3-1, with results
tapered by one for each column; modifications came depending on which class
of unit was fighting which--for example, sword/axe tpyes (class B) were
double strength against spear/pike types (Class A) (hence the Romans defeat
the successors of Alexander), while cavalry (Class C) were double against
swoards/axes, but half against spears. Sort of Rock, Scissors, Paper.

The real value of the five-game set is in the comprehensive scenario list
which covers all the famous battles of antiquity, and the massive amount of
counters of all different unit types from ancient Near Eastern chariots to
Viking axemen and ships, to early gunpowder weapons. You could use these,
and the very generic terrain maps, to do all sorts of fantasy battles in a
RPG. THe leader rules are very basic, I think a leader simply adds one or
two points to a die roll, or shifts the odds one column. But you might
perhaps incorporate something more complex, like the command-radius rules
of games like Napoleon's Last Battles. Again, SPI provided great hardware,
and you could use it to design your own games.

I only used this a few times in my DQ game. I think I had the characters
assigned to a specific unit counter. YOu could make them a leader too, or
just a regular soldier. Then the GM plays the prestags battle against the
player (if the player is also a leader, it is more realistic). Then, anytime
the player's unit is involved in a conflict, I played out a multi-figure
combat according to DQ rules. The number of opponents, their armament,
positioning, and all that, depended on the prestags situation. So, if the
player is in a company of roman style legionaries that are taken in the
flank by a bunch a light cavalry and overwhelmed, you throw a bunch of enemy
figures at him on horse w a surprise initiative.

The prestags units and their graphics did feature in the War of the Ring
game system--one of SPIs masterpieces, and always fun and interesting no
matter how many dozens of times you play it. The leader system was a plus to
the die roll, depending on morale of character. there was also a separate
individual combat system for character vs character based on strength,
morale, magic, magic resistance, and magic items. It may have been similar
to that used in Swords and Sorcery, if I rememebr correctly (another
brilliant game, also using the prestags unit graphics).

john franklin

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Group: DQ-RULES Message: 537 From: Richard Date: 6/16/2003
Subject: called shots/hit location
This came up when my friend (who is learning the game) wanted to
fight a Land Turtle, just for the hell of it. It mentions making an
attack on the head and an 80% chance of hitting the body/shell even
if you do hit the head.

So, how do you go about making that called shot?


Later,
R.
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 538 From: Bruce Probst Date: 6/17/2003
Subject: Re: called shots/hit location
On Mon, 16 Jun 2003 17:02:07 -0000, "Richard" <demon_star2002@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>This came up when my friend (who is learning the game) wanted to
>fight a Land Turtle, just for the hell of it. It mentions making an
>attack on the head and an 80% chance of hitting the body/shell even
>if you do hit the head.
>
>So, how do you go about making that called shot?

You can't, in the normal DQ rules.

In any case, you're misreading the description. You roll to hit; there's an
80% chance you hit the shell, and must apply the shell's AP. The rest of
the time you hit an unarmoured part of the body and hence (presumably) no AP
applies.

If the turtle has withdrawn its head, legs, etc. then the shell is the only
thing you can hit.

----------------------------------------------------------------
Bruce Probst bprobst@netspace.net.au ICQ 6563830
Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 SCA #80160
"It's like a Warhol movie, only kind of weird."
ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 539 From: John Corey Date: 6/17/2003
Subject: Re: called shots/hit location
I actually brought this topic up a looooong time ago. I know we came
up with some good ideas. It was in this yahoo group I think.

John
On Tuesday, June 17, 2003, at 03:44 AM, Bruce Probst wrote:

> On Mon, 16 Jun 2003 17:02:07 -0000, "Richard"
> <demon_star2002@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> >This came up when my friend (who is learning the game) wanted to
> >fight a Land Turtle, just for the hell of it. It mentions making an
> >attack on the head and an 80% chance of hitting the body/shell even
> >if you do hit the head.
> >
> >So, how do you go about making that called shot?
>
> You can't, in the normal DQ rules.
>
> In any case, you're misreading the description.  You roll to hit;
> there's an
> 80% chance you hit the shell, and must apply the shell's AP.  The rest
> of
> the time you hit an unarmoured part of the body and hence (presumably)
> no AP
> applies.
>
> If the turtle has withdrawn its head, legs, etc. then the shell is the
> only
> thing you can hit.
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> Bruce Probst              bprobst@netspace.net.au    ICQ 6563830
> Melbourne, Australia      MSTie #72759  SCA #80160
> "It's like a Warhol movie, only kind of weird."
> ASL FAQ              http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ
>
>
<image.tiff>
>
>
> To Post a message, send it to:   dq-rules@eGroups.com
> To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
> dq-rules-unsubscribe@eGroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 540 From: Richard Date: 7/2/2003
Subject: Re: called shots/hit location
There was another reason besides the Land Turtle that made me ask
about this- Zombies and Ghouls. You have to hit them in the
head/brain to "kill" them. How do you go about doing that without a
rule for called shots?

Also, I did a search in this group on the subject and came up empty
handed.


Later,
R.


--- In dq-rules@yahoogroups.com, John Corey <john@d...> wrote:
> I actually brought this topic up a looooong time ago. I know we
came
> up with some good ideas. It was in this yahoo group I think.
>
> John
> On Tuesday, June 17, 2003, at 03:44 AM, Bruce Probst wrote:
>
> > On Mon, 16 Jun 2003 17:02:07 -0000, "Richard"
> > <demon_star2002@y...>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >This came up when my friend (who is learning the game) wanted to
> > >fight a Land Turtle, just for the hell of it. It mentions making
an
> > >attack on the head and an 80% chance of hitting the body/shell
even
> > >if you do hit the head.
> > >
> > >So, how do you go about making that called shot?
> >
> > You can't, in the normal DQ rules.
> >
> > In any case, you're misreading the description.  You roll to hit;
> > there's an
> > 80% chance you hit the shell, and must apply the shell's AP.  The
rest
> > of
> > the time you hit an unarmoured part of the body and hence
(presumably)
> > no AP
> > applies.
> >
> > If the turtle has withdrawn its head, legs, etc. then the shell
is the
> > only
> > thing you can hit.
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------
> > Bruce Probst              bprobst@n...    ICQ 6563830
> > Melbourne, Australia      MSTie #72759  SCA #80160
> > "It's like a Warhol movie, only kind of weird."
> > ASL FAQ              http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ
> >
> >
> <image.tiff>
> >
> >
> > To Post a message, send it to:   dq-rules@e...
> > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
> > dq-rules-unsubscribe@e...
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 541 From: gmartinez@medioambiente.gov.ar Date: 7/2/2003
Subject: Re: called shots/hit location
By the way, and talking about undead.
 
When elves were described, DQ said: They're inmune to lesser undead efects. It mean, the elf doesn't check 4 X willpower when they see lesser undead?
 
Gabriel.
 
-----Mensaje original-----
De: Richard [mailto:demon_star2002@yahoo.com]
Enviado el: Miércoles, 02 de Julio de 2003 04:11 p.m.
Para: dq-rules@yahoogroups.com
Asunto: [dq-rules] Re: called shots/hit location

There was another reason besides the Land Turtle that made me ask
about this- Zombies and Ghouls. You have to hit them in the
head/brain to "kill" them. How do you go about doing that without a
rule for called shots?

Also, I did a search in this group on the subject and came up empty
handed.


Later,
R.


--- In dq-rules@yahoogroups.com, John Corey <john@d...> wrote:
> I actually brought this topic up a
looooong time ago.  I know we
came
> up with some good
ideas.  It was in this yahoo group I think.
>
> John
> On Tuesday, June 17, 2003, at 03:44 AM, Bruce Probst wrote:
>
> > On Mon, 16 Jun 2003 17:02:07 -0000, "Richard"
> > <demon_star2002@y...>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >This came up when my friend (who is learning the game) wanted to
> > >fight a Land Turtle, just for the hell of it. It mentions making
an
> > >attack on the head and an 80% chance of hitting the body/shell
even
> > >if you do hit the head.
> > >
> > >So, how do you go about making that called shot?
> >
> > You can't, in the normal DQ rules.
> >
> > In any case, you're misreading the description.  You roll to hit;
> > there's an
> > 80% chance you hit the shell, and must apply the shell's AP.  The
rest
> > of
> > the time you hit an unarmoured part of the body and hence
(presumably)
> > no AP
> > applies.
> >
> > If the turtle has withdrawn its head, legs, etc. then the shell
is the
> > only
> > thing you can hit.
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------
> > Bruce Probst              bprobst@n...    ICQ 6563830
> > Melbourne, Australia      MSTie #72759  SCA #80160
> > "It's like a Warhol movie, only kind of weird."
> > ASL FAQ              http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ
> >
> >
> <image.tiff>
> >
> >
> > To Post a message, send it to:   dq-rules@e...
> > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
> > dq-rules-unsubscribe@e...
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.



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Group: DQ-RULES Message: 542 From: Rodger Thorm Date: 7/2/2003
Subject: Re: called shots/hit location
There is still the Grievous Injury route (which sometimes specifies a hit location) but counting on that could take a long, long time.

Does anyone have draft house rules they have used for this sort of thing? I've probably thought about it at one time or another, but I've never worked anything out for a "called shot rule."

--Rodger


-------Original Message-------
From: Richard <demon_star2002@yahoo.com>
Sent: 07/02/03 03:10 PM
To: dq-rules@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [dq-rules] Re: called shots/hit location

>
> There was another reason besides the Land Turtle that made me ask
about this- Zombies and Ghouls. You have to hit them in the
head/brain to "kill" them. How do you go about doing that without a
rule for called shots?

{clip}
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 543 From: John Rauchert Date: 7/2/2003
Subject: Re: called shots/hit location
RE: [dq-rules] Re: called shots/hit location

"Like Ghouls, they are unaffected by Grievous Injury since their motor centre must be destroyed before they cease to be animated."

I have always considered that act of reducing a Zombie or Ghoul to zero Endurance had done enough damage to their Motor Centres to kill them. 

The major point to this rule is to ignore Grievous Injuries results that normally would put a creature out of commission.

JohnR

-----Original Message-----
From: Richard [mailto:demon_star2002@yahoo.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 1:11 PM
To: dq-rules@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [dq-rules] Re: called shots/hit location

There was another reason besides the Land Turtle that made me ask
about this- Zombies and Ghouls. You have to hit them in the
head/brain to "kill" them. How do you go about doing that without a
rule for called shots?

Also, I did a search in this group on the subject and came up empty
handed.


Later,
R.


--- In dq-rules@yahoogroups.com, John Corey <john@d...> wrote:
> I actually brought this topic up a looooong time ago.  I know we
came
> up with some good ideas.  It was in this yahoo group I think.
>
> John
> On Tuesday, June 17, 2003, at 03:44 AM, Bruce Probst wrote:
>
> > On Mon, 16 Jun 2003 17:02:07 -0000, "Richard"
> > <demon_star2002@y...>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >This came up when my friend (who is learning the game) wanted to
> > >fight a Land Turtle, just for the hell of it. It mentions making
an
> > >attack on the head and an 80% chance of hitting the body/shell
even
> > >if you do hit the head.
> > >
> > >So, how do you go about making that called shot?
> >
> > You can't, in the normal DQ rules.
> >
> > In any case, you're misreading the description.  You roll to hit;
> > there's an
> > 80% chance you hit the shell, and must apply the shell's AP.  The
rest
> > of
> > the time you hit an unarmoured part of the body and hence
(presumably)
> > no AP
> > applies.
> >
> > If the turtle has withdrawn its head, legs, etc. then the shell
is the
> > only
> > thing you can hit.
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------
> > Bruce Probst              bprobst@n...    ICQ 6563830
> > Melbourne, Australia      MSTie #72759  SCA #80160
> > "It's like a Warhol movie, only kind of weird."
> > ASL FAQ              http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ
> >
> >
> <image.tiff>
> >
> >
> > To Post a message, send it to:   dq-rules@e...
> > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
> > dq-rules-unsubscribe@e...
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.


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Group: DQ-RULES Message: 544 From: Bruce Probst Date: 7/3/2003
Subject: Re: called shots/hit location
On Wed, 2 Jul 2003 16:06:09 -0300, gmartinez@medioambiente.gov.ar wrote:

>When elves were described, DQ said: They're inmune to lesser undead efects.
>It mean, the elf doesn't check 4 X willpower when they see lesser undead?

Ghosts are a form of lesser undead, and their fear power requires a 3 x WP
roll to avoid. Elves are immune to this.

Ghouls kill anyone infected by their bite ... elves are immune to this also.

The other lesser undead don't really have special abilities that elves can
avoid.

I believe the source of the "elf immunity" rule is from "Lord of the Rings",
when Legolas says something like "ghosts of men hold no fear for elves" when
they are travelling through the Paths of the Dead.

----------------------------------------------------------------
Bruce Probst bprobst@netspace.net.au ICQ 6563830
Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 SCA #80160
"Ah, Mr. Claus -- you have a nasty habit of surviving."
ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 545 From: Bruce Probst Date: 7/3/2003
Subject: Re: called shots/hit location
On Wed, 02 Jul 2003 19:10:53 -0000, "Richard" <demon_star2002@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>There was another reason besides the Land Turtle that made me ask
>about this- Zombies and Ghouls. You have to hit them in the
>head/brain to "kill" them. How do you go about doing that without a
>rule for called shots?

I agree with John's response -- you know you've hit them in the head when
you've reduced their EN to 0. (A couple of the Grievous Injury results
might also do the trick, e.g., severing the head completely.)

IMO the most confusing demonstration of this is fighting a hydra -- they
only stop wiggling when you sever the "immortal" head. How do you know when
you've done this? When you've done more EN damage (bringing it to 0) than
it can regenerate.

The DQ combat system doesn't really support "called shots" at all -- it
really depends on rolling the right dice up front, thus leaving you with the
result you were hoping for. IOW I think "called shots" are built into
*every* attack roll. Hence the EN damage rule -- you've rolled really well
and thus hit something important that has been exposed -- a "called shot" in
effect if not in name.

----------------------------------------------------------------
Bruce Probst bprobst@netspace.net.au ICQ 6563830
Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 SCA #80160
"Ah, Mr. Claus -- you have a nasty habit of surviving."
ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 546 From: dq-rules@yahoogroups.com Date: 7/5/2003
Subject: New file uploaded to dq-rules
Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the dq-rules
group.

File : /documents/DQ-Aspects.zip
Uploaded by : esko_halttunen <esko.halttunen@luukku.com>
Description : Optional and additional rules for aspects

You can access this file at the URL

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dq-rules/files/documents/DQ-Aspects.zip

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit

http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

Regards,

esko_halttunen <esko.halttunen@luukku.com>
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 547 From: Esko Halttunen Date: 7/5/2003
Subject: Optional Aspects
Ok, time to make my debut posting on this group... *crosses fingers*

Hello, everyone! My name is Esko Halttunen, but I tend to use the handle
Edi on the net. Some of you might remember me from my infrequent posts
on the townhall forum before it got nuked, but if you don't, don't
worry. I wasn't exactly high-profile, more of a lurker, and it was
difficult to say anything worthwhile before the more experienced crowd
took care of it. *grin*
I've played DQ on and off for the past several years after I bought the
3rd Editon *shudder* on impulse. Thanks to John Davis who went to the
trouble of procuring an extra 2nd Edition and shipping it off to
Finland for me. It's due to him that I have been able to play the real
DQ instead of he watered down T$R version.

In any case, now that the introductions are done, down to business:
There is now a bunch of new, optional aspects available, courtesy of
yours truly. I've uploaded the new Aspects to the files>documents
section of the group, in a file DQ-Aspects.zip, which contains the new
Aspect tables in MS Word, Open Office and plain text format. There is
also a plain text notes file, the text of which is pasted below. Take a
look and tell me what you think, ask questions and discuss them. Input
is always valuable for improvement ideas. I hope they will provide
enjoyment and entertainment for all. :-)

Edi

*****

I have always considered the Aspects to be an intriguing but sadly
under-developed facet of DQ.
After a long time of quietly steaming and seething over this, I decided
to do something about
it, not least because of the needs of my own campaign world. Hence were
born these optional
rules for Aspects.

I divided the Aspects into three categories, the Aspects of Action, the
Aspects of Form and the
Aspects of Magic, which together constitute the tripartite Aspect of any
single character.

The Aspects of Action influence actions taken by characters and are the
Aspects as they
originally appear in the published DQ editions. There have been no
changes whatsoever.

The Aspects of Form are related to the physical nature of the character
and grant bonuses and
penalties to statistics and skills and sometimes have other effects as
well (such as giving
enhanced night vision).

The Aspects of Magic influence how the character's magic works. Each
Aspect of Magic is closely
related to one (or more) of the Colleges of Magic and grant a minor
bonus to base chances for
an Adept who is a member of the affected College. The primary effects of
the Aspects, however,
are independent of the character's College and affect how his magic
functions in relation to
the rest of the world (e.g. the spells of a Wind-aspected Adept have
increased range when
applicable, regardless of his College). The Aspects of Magic are not
automatically gained,
the chance to have a magical affinity is dependent upon the character's
Magical Aptitude.

*****

Now that a basic breakdown of what the optional Aspects has been dealt
with, a few comments
about their design philosophy might be in order.

At a brief glance, the optional Aspects seem to be just a collection of
various bonuses,
with little or nothing to counterbalance them. This is, to an extent,
true. There are
relatively few penalties and offsets for the bonuses, but my main
consideration was that
the use of the Aspects would be a powerful device as a springing point
for plot hooks and
as storytelling tools as well as giving each character a unique spin.
The latter naturally
requires cooperation from players so that they play along and at least
make an attempt at
taking the aspects into account when building the character's personality.

Conversely, if the player has already settled on a character type he or
she wants to play,
the GM should ideally cooperate by allowing an aspect that would
complement the personality
of the character (e.g. the Aspect of the Bear may not be the best suited
for a rogue-type
character who relies on stealth, speed and a quick tongue to get things
done, while the
Aspects of the Cat or Fox would be more appropriate).

The Aspects of Magic are in some ways a trickier issue than the Aspects
of Form, and in some
ways a lot easier. Each one gives a benefit of one sort or another, in
addition to providing
a bonus to some specific College's cast chances, and the only ones that
incur penalties are
Ice (for fire mages, but if you get an Aspect of Ice, would you make a
fire mage? I wouldn't!
Or if the player really wanted a fire mage, I'd let them reroll), Light
and Darkness (reaction
penalties to servants of the opposite). The Aspects of Magic are
supposed to give the same
diversity to magic as the Aspects of Form give generally, and frankly,
they are also *meant*
to be a power boost with the unstated stipulation that it should serve
plot purposes. The
evil necromancer or greater summoner who is the main villain gets an
altogether different
flavor if they happen to have an Aspect of corresponding to their magic
(Death or Gate, in
this case). Or what happens when you need to take on someone who has an
Aspect of Craft?
Dealing with their magic just became a lot harder than was originally
expected. These Aspects
add more spice, and to a certain degree more unpredictability, and they
also provide an
endless variety of story hooks and more depth for the GM to exploit,
should he choose to use
them.

The grouping of the Aspects of Magic is intentionally thematic. First
there are the
abstract Aspects, (Faerie, Thought, Knowledge, Craft, Gate, Void),
followed by the Elemental
Aspects, which in turn lead the way to what in my campaign world are the
Aspects representative
of Light, Twilight and Darkness and which also have a secondary tie to
the elements. There is
a specific reason why the Aspect of Life overlaps those of Light and Sun
and Death overlaps
Shadow and Darkness. Those 1 in 100 occurrences of two Aspects of Magic
are supposed to be
reserved for pivotal characters in the struggle of good and evil, Light
and Darkness, and
flip-flopping Light and Darkness according to the actual choices and
actions of a PC or an
NPC can yield *very* interesting results if played correctly.
The elements have a slightly higher chance of occurring than the others,
6% vs 5% for a
specific aspect, and Shadow, Sun, Light and Darkness also have 6%, one
of which is overlap
with either Death or Life.

I must admit that these Aspect tables, especially the Aspects of Magic,
have been drawn up
to specifically suit my campaign world and its attendant arrangement of
powers, but I also
think that the arrangement is general enough in nature to be adopted as
is or with little
modification for most campaign worlds. I explicitly ignored balance
(other than in general
terms) as a consideration, meaning that I did not want a zero-sum game
where every benefit
would be countered by an equal negative in some respect. That might have
something to do with
my world being a relatively high magic one, as in that magic is not very
common, but it is a
powerful force, though subtle, and pivotal in many respects. The
Aspects enhance and underline
this, as well as add to the mystery. Characters with certain aspects
also tend to be moticed
much more easily by the Powers than J. Random Villager. Death tends to
draw the Powers of
Darkness and Life the Powers of Light, for example.

Ideally the Aspect of the character should reflect the character's
personality or vice versa.
They are meant to be a tool to enrich play and diversify the range of
available options and
to provide additional flavor to characters and campaign worlds. This was
the sole motivation
behind the (admittedly not all that strenuous) effort put into the
optional Aspects.

It should be noted that not every single person in the world has (or is
meant to have) the
Aspects of Form and Magic. Extraordinary people (such as player
characters, important NPCs
and possibly others, as determined by the GM) possess them, but not
every last beggar, peasant
and goblin. GMs are encouraged to use their discretion.

I avoided putting in too many restrictions or hard and fast rules into
how these optional
Aspects should be handled, as I feel that it should be left for
individual GMs to decide how
and to what extent (if any) to implement this possibility. Each one has
his own campaigns,
with different worlds, different approaches to magic, different
requirements and different
players, and they will damn well know what works best for their specific
games, far better
than I could ever make this on the basis of guesswork and putting in a
ton of rules and page
upon page of explanation for every possible twist and combination. If
you find a use for these
optional Aspects in your games, feel free to take whatever you need and
modify the rest to
your heart's content until the whole matches your preferences.

And now that I've finally managed to put everyone to sleep by being a
long-winded windbag,
some credits are in order. I didn't manage all of it quite by myself,
after all. A big
portion of the credit goes to my good friend Kalle Ojala who took the
rough first draft and
significantly improved it. Without his input, my ideas would have ended
up with a far inferior,
more limited and totally unsatisfactory final form. I also owe Rodger
Thorm thanks for his
valuable comments on the unfinished work. Most of the text above is the
result of answering
the questions he had to ask, and hopefully that will save you the
trouble of asking them again.
Of course, if there is something more you wish to know, I'll be more
than happy to answer any
questions that you may have to ask. Post them on the DQ-rules group or
email them to me
(address: esko.halttunen@luukku.com).

Esko Halttunen aka Edi
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 548 From: pitkinave44310 Date: 7/7/2003
Subject: Naval Combat
I know this thread has been discussed in the past, but has anyone
created rules for Naval Combat or know where there are some to use?
I haven't posted in years, so I can't remember if there were any out
there or not.

Stephen (f.k.a. Halphin in old Townhall days)
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 549 From: hollywood314@juno.com Date: 7/13/2003
Subject: Aspect Comments
Edi,

I'm really impressed with the work you have done in creating these aspects. I must say that I really like what you have done. The aspects give a nice variation for gameplay. While reading them, I immediately thought of two specfic campaign uses: 1) The aspects of form would be perfect for an all human setting/world. They could be used in a highly spiritual (i.e. native american/oriental) setting. 2) The magic aspects would be perfect for a highly magical world(i.e. Darksword Trilogy).

If I were using them in a "normal" DQ setting, I might require my players to sacrifice an ability point or two for a roll on the chart. If the players are unwilling to do so, they just wouldn't have that aspect. Thus, the ones that did would be even more special.

Thanks again for sharing. I fully intend on using these in my next game(if I can ever get a DQ group together to play)

Stephen/Halphin

________________________________________________________________
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Group: DQ-RULES Message: 550 From: Esko Halttunen Date: 7/15/2003
Subject: Re: Aspect Comments
Halphin,

Thanks for the positive comments. It's nice to know it wasn't all for
nothing. :-)
I hadn't thought of them in the context the way you did, but that's why
it's good to have input from several people. My own campaign is a
relatively high magic one, and the aspects of form have their place
there too, for the special people.

>If I were using them in a "normal" DQ setting, I might require my players to sacrifice an ability point or two for a roll on the chart. If the players are unwilling to do so, they just wouldn't have that aspect. Thus, the ones that did would be even more special.
>
That's a good approach, I guess. I deliberately didn't put any
suggestions on how to do them, because every GM knows best what suits
his world and what doesn't. It'll also balance out some of the bonuses.
For myself, I didn't require any compensatory reductions from my
players, but I don't mind giving a slight boost to their PCs. If they
screw up, they'll still be just as dead.

>Thanks again for sharing. I fully intend on using these in my next game(if I can ever get a DQ group together to play)
>
You're welcome. I just wanted to spice up the game some and it'd be
selfish not to give everyone a chance to use it. Like Rodger said to me
when I asked his opinion, these days so little new stuff gets done that
it's positive whenever that happens, and I really feel like contributing
back to the group. I've certainly sponged enough stuff from here! If the
DQOS project isn't dead and buried and the people running it feel like
it, they're welcome to put the optional aspects there, and if they do,
I'd be honored.

Edi

*************************

hollywood314@juno.com wrote:

>Edi,
>
>I'm really impressed with the work you have done in creating these aspects. I must say that I really like what you have done. The aspects give a nice variation for gameplay. While reading them, I immediately thought of two specfic campaign uses: 1) The aspects of form would be perfect for an all human setting/world. They could be used in a highly spiritual (i.e. native american/oriental) setting. 2) The magic aspects would be perfect for a highly magical world(i.e. Darksword Trilogy).
>
>If I were using them in a "normal" DQ setting, I might require my players to sacrifice an ability point or two for a roll on the chart. If the players are unwilling to do so, they just wouldn't have that aspect. Thus, the ones that did would be even more special.
>
>Thanks again for sharing. I fully intend on using these in my next game(if I can ever get a DQ group together to play)
>
>Stephen/Halphin
>
>
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 551 From: Esko Halttunen Date: 7/15/2003
Subject: Re: Optional Aspects
I don't think I mentioned something I should have in the earlier post:
There are references to several magic colleges in the Aspects of Magic
section that don't actually exist yet, such as Sun Magics and Moon
Magics. Those were included because I intend to have those in my
campaign, I'll just have to design them first. They are mentioned there
for the sake of completeness, and because I thought that some people
might have some versions of their own in their campaigns.

Just so you wouldn't wonder for nothing. Also, apologies for screwing up
the format in the previous one, most of it was copy-pasted from a
text-file, I should have eliminated the linebreaks. *fumes*

Edi
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 552 From: Steven Wiles Date: 7/15/2003
Subject: Re: Optional Aspects
--- Esko Halttunen <esko.halttunen@luukku.com> wrote:
> I don't think I mentioned something I should have in
> the earlier post:
> There are references to several magic colleges in
> the Aspects of Magic
> section that don't actually exist yet, such as Sun
> Magics and Moon
> Magics. Those were included because I intend to have
> those in my
> campaign, I'll just have to design them first. They
> are mentioned there [snip]

The Seagate Adventurer's Guild houserules added a
Solar Mages subdivision to Celestial Magics. If you
can find a copy of their house rules still posted
somewhere, you might find that time-saving. It's been
a while since I looked at those rules, but I seem to
remember the Solar stuff being good. Does anyone else
here know the link, or even if they are still posting
the rules? I have a copy, but I got mine a -long-
time ago, before many things DQ disappeared from the
web for legal reasons.

Mort


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Group: DQ-RULES Message: 553 From: hollywood314@juno.com Date: 7/16/2003
Subject: Re: Aspect Comments
I'm glad to see that there are still some people creating new stuff. I agree that there hasn't been a whole of new stuff lately. I have been working on some ideas on and off for the last couple of years, but haven't gotten around to finishing anything off. I'd like to finish them off so I can put them out there for use. If finish anything soon, I'll send it to you for your input.

________________________________________________________________
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Group: DQ-RULES Message: 554 From: jcorey30 Date: 7/16/2003
Subject: Re: Optional Aspects
this is exciting work. It reminds me of the Boogie table suggested in
Fantasy Wargaming. Someone in this group had created a great Boogie
table for DQ. I just searched for it and I could not find it.
Group: DQ-RULES Message: 555 From: Esko Halttunen Date: 7/17/2003
Subject: File Formats for Online Stuff
I don't know if this is a consideration for many people here, but it is
for myself anyway, hence this post.

I'm ditching MS Office because I don't like it as software and I'm not
going to use an illegal version anyway when I have a superior and
perfectly legal, free alternative in Open Office. How much interest is
there to have the stuff that we have in Word document format in the OO
.sxw format? Because while OO can read MS Office documents, not all
things carry over quite intact and anything I use myself I will edit so
it'll be fully OO native.

If you're interested, pipe up so I'll know how much call there is for
that and see if I'll bother with more than just the stuff I use for myself.

Edi