<snip>

> Also, I had a character who was taking both the Assassin skill and the
> Healer skill, and he was talking about the horrific and neat things he
> was going to be able to do by combining the "best of both worlds" as
> it were.

That's why I instituted the add the Healer combat modifiers to the DR
instead of reducing the BC, it does a decent job of cancelling out an
Assassin's bonus for getting a grevious injury. I instututed that after the
Halfling became an Assassin/Healer, the first time someone tried that
combination in my almost of 30 years of DQing. In my world a Healer won't
teach an Assassin (the Halfling learned from a Demon, not the same thing).
There is also a major NPC (former PC), who is also a Healer who has been
proscribed by the Healer's Guild, the consequence is that no Healer is
authorized to be in his city (there is a special exception, but that's a
long story).

> Are you saying that the Healer is actually having to use a part of his
> own Life Essence (the permanent End point) as part of the sacrifice
> for the resurrect? If so, that sounds pretty cool too. But I wouldn't
> want to make too many rulings against Healers. We've already played
> with the ruling that I mentioned earlier, and the group seems happy
> with it.

I agree that you wouldn't want to combine all those elements.

~Jeffery~

I would not make that rule. If your intent was to
make sure that a PC would not likely be a
healer...then you succeeded. But that oath would have
no real bite...as it does in the real world. BTW,
what is the mechanism for the Willpower loss...deity?

Mark

> 1a. Re: Fellowship
> Posted by: "Chris C" cccurlee@cox.net vaanan1
> Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 6:47 am ((PDT))
>
> No healers are currently in the party because of a
> nasty ruling I made
> regarding the Healer skill. This group likes to
> fight a lot, and
> nobody wants to be a healer because I said that
> Healers are the
> doctors (and clergy to a certain degree) of this
> world, and they have
> sworn an oath to do no wrong. If a Healer kills
> another sentient being
> within his Empathy range, then he loses a point of
> Willpower. Permanently.

____________________________________________________________________________________
Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today! http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7

Oaths can be cool and make the world feel magical.. the effects of
willfully breaking one
ought to be something along the lines of a curse.. which can itself be
broken but not easily
hence I dont like the "Permanently" but magical oaths are cool.

Geasa by any other name is just not Celtic ;-)

Taking such a magical oath should also gain you some extra benefit.. if
you think
that will power is the price.. maybe it is also the benefit. Being a
healer gains you
1 Willpower but.. if you break with the code you loose both the bonus
poi and
one more.. and breaking the curse you have brought on yourself might take
quite a quest.

Mark D wrote:

>
> I would not make that rule. If your intent was to
> make sure that a PC would not likely be a
> healer...then you succeeded. But that oath would have
> no real bite...as it does in the real world. BTW,
> what is the mechanism for the Willpower loss...deity?
>
> Mark
>
> > 1a. Re: Fellowship
> > Posted by: "Chris C" cccurlee@cox. net <mailto:cccurlee%40cox.net>
> vaanan1
> > Date: Tue Aug 28, 2007 6:47 am ((PDT))
> >
> > No healers are currently in the party because of a
> > nasty ruling I made
> > regarding the Healer skill. This group likes to
> > fight a lot, and
> > nobody wants to be a healer because I said that
> > Healers are the
> > doctors (and clergy to a certain degree) of this
> > world, and they have
> > sworn an oath to do no wrong. If a Healer kills
> > another sentient being
> > within his Empathy range, then he loses a point of
> > Willpower. Permanently.
>

I'd like to introduce myself. I'm Erudite, and I have not played DQ
since 1981-82! I was first introduced to the game with the original
boxed set with three separate booklets, and then received the 2e
compiled book with the white cover, then years later, after dropping
the game in favor of Call of Cthulhu, Basic D&D, some AD&D, and Rune
Quest, picked up the blue 3e book.

I remember liking the game for the varied schools of magic, and the
critical hit tables, but not being too keen on what I felt were the
limited skills provided, and only a generic run of monsters. After
playing a bit, I put it aside with the attitude of 'Nice enough, but
not my style'.

Nearly twenty five years later, after several more versions of D&D, I
find myself leafing through my DQ books (especially the 2e book; I no
longer have the boxed set). What I found limiting back then does not
seem so now. I'm not sure if I want, or care, if PCs have Weaponsmith
or Prognosticator skills; as adventurers they have other demands on
their time and energy, and NPCs can be hand-waved, which I'm sure is
the intention. The monsters, of course, can easily be modified from
any other game source, and some great pieces of fantasy literature
(Lyonesse, Thieves World, etc.) don't focus on a plethora of critters.

I'm thinking of possibly putting together a game of DQ, and have the
following thoughts:

ALBION
1. /SettingAdventures - I've always had a problem visualizing
adventures for DQ. I can run a mean Call of Cthulhu, Warhammer FRP,
or DND3e, in part because there are setting assumptions that direct
and flavor the adventures, respectively helpless terror after
mysterious investigation, a gritty quest for survival and advancement
in the underbelly of an empire, and a strange jaunt through a
magic-rich series of challenges in places exotic.

In DQ, I'm not sure what the setting flavor is, and the rules are
great, but very dry, and do not really inspire me (not that I would
change them at all). I never got the Frontiers of Alusia, but from
what I read, it was pretty bare bones, so maybe not much help from
that direction. ARES #11 did have Albion, and ARES #12 has setting
adaptions to use that wargame with DQ.

I have to say that the idea of Albion intrigued me. I managed to hunt
down an online version of the map, and simply looking at the map and
the conversion notes was quite inspiring. Sadly, I would love to get a
look at the actual Albion game, but do not have access to ARES #11.

From what I have seen so far, I get the following ideas, if I were to
use that as a setting for DQ:

I'd establish the setting as an alternate Earth, something along the
lines of Lyonesse from Jack Vance (3 books, highly recommended); 10th
century Dark Ages with monsters lurking in the forests and wastelands,
the strong presence of Faerie, and powerful but reclusive mages, and
no magical item shops.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
IV. Character Generation
Orcs, Halflings, Dwarves and Elves are denizens of Faerie, and not
normally allowable as player characters. Fey creatures are found all
over, but especially at Faerie Knowes, Forests, and Wild Magic areas.
Connaught is an actual Faerie Kingdom.

Humans may be Celts, marginalized in Cornwall (Curwyllan,
Romanized-Celts), Wales (Gwynedd), Ireland (Leinster and Munster), and
Scotland (Moray, Ochil, and Strathclyde), Saxon-Celts (Albion, East
March, and The Weald), and Norse (The Borders and Ulster)

Werewolves are Saxon shock troops if they are not wild and at large.
Werebears are Norse Baersarkers or solitary Celtic mages of the
Elemental schools. Wereboars are normally misanthropic and not
allowed as characters, and Weretigers do not exist in Albion.

Giants are not allowed as player characters, and are frequently
solitary. A gathering of giants is a rare event.

The 'Warrior Alternative' from Dragon 87(?) is used for those who do
not select a school of magic.

V. Combat
Scale armor is the standard armor of the isles, especially among
Saxons and Norse. Celts tend to rely on leather, and wealthy Saxons
and Norse will have chain mail. Partial plate is rare, and normally
the province of nobles. Anyone walking around in partial plate will
either be assumed to be someone of importance, or assumed to be
someone trying to impersonate someone of importance. Fullplate is
made specifically for the individual and costs twice the listed price.
Kings might have a suit, if they are the type to go into battle.

Dwarves can make chain that has the properties of leather, but this
elf-chain is not normally sold to men. They can also make partial,
full, and improved plate armor. Improved plate will always be of
dwarven manufacture. Among the elves and similar fey, plate is not in
high demand, when considered alongside the quality and benefits of
elf-chain.

Two handed swords tend to be limited to Norse and Saxons, although the
Claymore is found among the Scots.

VI. Magic
There are no great schools of magic in Albion. Tutelage is from a
master to a student. Magicians are jealous of their power, secretive,
and tend to establish themselves away from the cities of men, in
lonesome wastes, enchanted forests, and windswept mountains.
Nevertheless, they do consider themselves part of a great, if loose,
fraternity. In Albion, they are organized informally under the
direction of a great magician, Murgen, whose one great edict forbids
magicians from interfering in the affairs of nations.

Just like characters from 'Personalities of Sanctuary', magicians may
learn more than one college of magic. The rules are in Dragon
magazine, but essentially boil down to 6,500 XP and six months of time.

Religion in Albion is Christian in the town, and pagan in the country,
although in civilized lands the paganism is covered by a thin veneer
of Christianity. Religion does not by itself confer any magical
abilities, but may provide supernatural effects, such as the wielding
of a cross by a devout individual in the presence of supernatural
evil. If the divine does exist, there is no direct proof.

Hermetic magicians of the traditional type tend to focus on
Enchantments, Illusions, Naming Incantations, Shaping, and Greater
Summonings. Elemental magics are a rarity among the typical hermetic
magician. Murgen is a hermetic, and does not normally bother with the
doings on non-hermetics, except for infernalists who draw attention to
themselves. They often possess the skills Alchemist, Astrologer, and
Mechanician.

Church scholars may delve into Rune Magics, Greater Summonings, and
Naming Incantations. Skills will frequently include Healer and Astrologer.

Pagan magicians associated with the Druidic tradition are frequently
Earth magicians first and foremost. The places of power shown on the
Albion map are considered to benefit Earth Mages as per 43.2. Some
pagan magicians may pick up other Elemental Colleges, and a few may
have Water Magics as a first choice if located along a coastline. A
rare few practice Lesser Summonings. Skills will often include Healer
and Troubadour. The druids of France are particularly unpleasant.

Norse magicians typically study Naming, Rune Magics, Shaping, and
elemental colleges, particularly air and water magics. Most will have
Astrology and Navigation as skills.

Infernalists are magicians along the lines of Frazier, Faust, or
Crowley, and are similar to the hermetics, except that they frequently
sought power through supernatural mentoring rather than that of a
mortal. They usually start with Greater Summonings or Black Magics,
and can later branch out into Necromancy, Shaping, Rune Magics,
Naming, and Sorceries of the Mind. They may be lone individuals, or
organized into magical circles. They don't necessarily have any
particular set of skills.

Hedge wizards, such as a wise man or weird woman, tend to possess
knowledge of Rune Magics, Black Magic, Lesser Summonings, and Naming,
with the skills Healer and Astrologer.

All practitioners of Black Magic must select a demon patron from those
listed in the College of Greater Summonings.

Enchanted and Wild Magic areas are considered to be High Mana. Mundane
areas are Low Mana.

The High Holy days of the calendar (the same one we use) are:

February 1 - Imbolc (Light): A time of prognostication of the weather
and other things, divinations, and watching for omens. Candles are
often lit as a vigil for omens is kept. Special foods are made,
hearth fires lit high, and company is kept. Frequently a time to make
claims for the year or to rededicate oneself.

March 21 - Ostara (Light): In some areas, ritual weddings between
older women and younger men take place, the marriage lasting only the
single night. This is the Vernal Equinox. This festival is largely
ignored in Saxon influenced lands.

April 30 - Walpurgisnacht (Dark, Necromantic): A night when the veil
between the living and dead wears thin. Young people collect greenery
and branches from the woods at twilight, used to adorn the village.
Large bonfires are lit in the village to guide them back home and ward
off evil. In some areas, folk stay up all night drinking, and in
others a straw witch or monster is burned.

May 1 - Beltane (Light): As Walpurgisnacht passes into Beltane,
bonfires are lit ( a previously lit bonfire is tied to the dark
powers!) on hilltops and mountains of importance. Home fires are
extinguished and relit from this community bonfire. Boughs of rowan or
hawthorn are hung from doors. In some areas maypole dancing is common,
as are ritual purifications, which may include visiting wells or
leaping over fires. A ribald tradition of eroticism exists in large
towns and cities. A saying exists in Albion proper that those without
a partner on Beltane will go without on Midsummer.

May 13 - Lemuria (Necromantic): A day for exorcising the evil spirits,
some walk barefoot while casting salt over their shoulder, or make a
special 'salt cake', or bang brass pots together. This month is
coincidentally considered bad luck for marriages. This is not
celebrated in celtic lands.

June 21 - Midsummer/Litha (Light): Celebrated with bonfires and
cat-burnings, street festivals and parades, and impromptu or mass
marriages. Some visit healing wells or collect special herbs for use
later on in the year.

August 1 - Lughnasadh (Light): A time for community festivals, horse
races, and family reunions. Contests of strength and skill are made,
and marriages arranged. Fields are also blessed on this day.

September 21 - Mabon (Light): A harvest festival, and the Autumnal
Equinox.

October 31 - Samhain(Dark, Necromantic): A time to take account of
livestock and grain supplies, slaughter any animals that cannot be fed
or survive the winter, and to light large bonfires to keep away evil.
Divinations for the future are common events. A meal is set at the
table for the dead, and poems, songs and dance performed for them.

December 21 - Yule (Dark): The Winter Solstice. Boars are
traditionally slaughtered, songs sung, and guilds choose apprentices
to be admitted to their ranks. Among the Norse, male slaves may be
sacrificed. Sharing meals and giftgiving are also important parts of
the festival.

VII: Skills
I'm okay with the skills in the 2e book.

VIII: Monsters
Dwarves in Albion do not have the normal antipathy towards elves,
although this is not true outside the isles, in places like
Scandinavia and the Alps.

Stone Giants are called Fomorians.

The following monsters are common in Albion: all Undead, Riding
Animals, Common Avians, Aquatic Mammals, Other Sea Creatures, Giant
Humanoids (other than Titans), Fairy Folk, Earth Dwellers, Creatures
of Night and Shadow, all Elementals, Hellhounds, Unicorns, Nagas,
Wyverns, Suarime, Salamanders, Giant Land Turtles, Basilisks, Manta
Rays, Pikes and Sharks, Gryphons, Gargoyles, Harpies, Wolves, Weasels,
Rats, Stags, Oxen, Boars, Bears, Wild Cats, and Neanderthals. Other
monsters should not normally appear.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

The ALBION game in ARES#11 lists some magical rituals and magical
items, all usable in the game, too.

I now come to my second point...
2. Adventures - I am frequently short on time, and prefer to have some
aid in developing and running adventures. Given the theme of Albion
(pre-Normal England), I would consider any suggestions or
modifications of existing adventures.

I have considered the 'Dragon Warriors' game books series for a source
of adventures based on a game world (Legend) with a similar feel. The
adventures and rules are split up among six books (see Home of the
Underdogs for pdf downloads of the OOP books). I would only need to
give stats for the encounters and everything would fall into place.

Essentially, the players start as itinerant knights/nobility in the
lands of Baron Aldred, and come to his notice after several adventures
which involve treachery against him. In the service to the Baron,
they preserve his life and rule, but eventually can be drawn to lands
further to the north (in this case, Scotland is our analog) in what
amounts to a horror-fest of Lovecraftian proportions. If a
continuance is desired, the five Blood Sword books by the same authors
details adventures in what is analagous to the Mediterranean and
Eastern Europe, and the possible end of the world. The Graeme Davis
Sethmet(sp?) adventure would fit in as a nice sideline.

Anyhow, those are some of my thoughts on what I might like to do with
Dragon Quest. Hopefully, there are plenty of others still playing
this game.

Erudite

Welcome Erudite,

Your comments concerning DQ rules/setting are fair
enough imo. Personally, I always felt like DQ had a
slightly North African feel about it, but that was
probably due to both the famous Camp of Alla-Akabar
and the material in the Thieves's World boxed set..

Albion sounds like a very interesting setting, and use
of the material already published in Ares should give
you some room for development and inspiration; indeed
you seem to have done plenty of work already.

(I did something similar to Greg Costikyan's
"Barbarian Kings" published in Ares #3 - it ran for
several sessions and then became a RQ campaign using
Dorastor.. But that's another story)

Something you may wish to look at is the prices for
various goods and services, especially given the
setting and the comments you have made. You may also
wish to do something about the relatively cheesy
"Adventurer's Guild" as it appears in the standard DQ
rules.

If you feel like venturing into the realm of Alusia
however, I cannot recommend highly enough a rather
incredible bunch of Kiwis who have been running a
multi-GM DQ game since forever..

Check this out:
http://dragonquest.org.nz/dqwiki/index.php/Main_Page

All the best,


Lev

--- eruditeredux <eruditeredux@yahoo.com> wrote:

> I'd like to introduce myself. I'm Erudite, and I
> have not played DQ
> since 1981-82! I was first introduced to the game
> with the original
> boxed set with three separate booklets, and then
> received the 2e
> compiled book with the white cover, then years
> later, after dropping
> the game in favor of Call of Cthulhu, Basic D&D,
> some AD&D, and Rune
> Quest, picked up the blue 3e book.
>
> I remember liking the game for the varied schools of
> magic, and the
> critical hit tables, but not being too keen on what
> I felt were the
> limited skills provided, and only a generic run of
> monsters. After
> playing a bit, I put it aside with the attitude of
> 'Nice enough, but
> not my style'.
>
> Nearly twenty five years later, after several more
> versions of D&D, I
> find myself leafing through my DQ books (especially
> the 2e book; I no
> longer have the boxed set). What I found limiting
> back then does not
> seem so now. I'm not sure if I want, or care, if
> PCs have Weaponsmith
> or Prognosticator skills; as adventurers they have
> other demands on
> their time and energy, and NPCs can be hand-waved,
> which I'm sure is
> the intention. The monsters, of course, can easily
> be modified from
> any other game source, and some great pieces of
> fantasy literature
> (Lyonesse, Thieves World, etc.) don't focus on a
> plethora of critters.
>
> I'm thinking of possibly putting together a game of
> DQ, and have the
> following thoughts:
>
> ALBION
> 1. /SettingAdventures - I've always had a problem
> visualizing
> adventures for DQ. I can run a mean Call of
> Cthulhu, Warhammer FRP,
> or DND3e, in part because there are setting
> assumptions that direct
> and flavor the adventures, respectively helpless
> terror after
> mysterious investigation, a gritty quest for
> survival and advancement
> in the underbelly of an empire, and a strange jaunt
> through a
> magic-rich series of challenges in places exotic.
>
> In DQ, I'm not sure what the setting flavor is, and
> the rules are
> great, but very dry, and do not really inspire me
> (not that I would
> change them at all). I never got the Frontiers of
> Alusia, but from
> what I read, it was pretty bare bones, so maybe not
> much help from
> that direction. ARES #11 did have Albion, and ARES
> #12 has setting
> adaptions to use that wargame with DQ.
>
> I have to say that the idea of Albion intrigued me.
> I managed to hunt
> down an online version of the map, and simply
> looking at the map and
> the conversion notes was quite inspiring. Sadly, I
> would love to get a
> look at the actual Albion game, but do not have
> access to ARES #11.
>
> From what I have seen so far, I get the following
> ideas, if I were to
> use that as a setting for DQ:
>
> I'd establish the setting as an alternate Earth,
> something along the
> lines of Lyonesse from Jack Vance (3 books, highly
> recommended); 10th
> century Dark Ages with monsters lurking in the
> forests and wastelands,
> the strong presence of Faerie, and powerful but
> reclusive mages, and
> no magical item shops.
>
>

----------------------------------------------------------------------

> IV. Character Generation
> Orcs, Halflings, Dwarves and Elves are denizens of
> Faerie, and not
> normally allowable as player characters. Fey
> creatures are found all
> over, but especially at Faerie Knowes, Forests, and
> Wild Magic areas.
> Connaught is an actual Faerie Kingdom.
>
> Humans may be Celts, marginalized in Cornwall
> (Curwyllan,
> Romanized-Celts), Wales (Gwynedd), Ireland (Leinster
> and Munster), and
> Scotland (Moray, Ochil, and Strathclyde),
> Saxon-Celts (Albion, East
> March, and The Weald), and Norse (The Borders and
> Ulster)
>
> Werewolves are Saxon shock troops if they are not
> wild and at large.
> Werebears are Norse Baersarkers or solitary Celtic
> mages of the
> Elemental schools. Wereboars are normally
> misanthropic and not
> allowed as characters, and Weretigers do not exist
> in Albion.
>
> Giants are not allowed as player characters, and are
> frequently
> solitary. A gathering of giants is a rare event.
>
> The 'Warrior Alternative' from Dragon 87(?) is used
> for those who do
> not select a school of magic.
>
> V. Combat
> Scale armor is the standard armor of the isles,
> especially among
> Saxons and Norse. Celts tend to rely on leather,
> and wealthy Saxons
> and Norse will have chain mail. Partial plate is
> rare, and normally
> the province of nobles. Anyone walking around in
> partial plate will
> either be assumed to be someone of importance, or
> assumed to be
> someone trying to impersonate someone of importance.
> Fullplate is
> made specifically for the individual and costs twice
> the listed price.
> Kings might have a suit, if they are the type to go
> into battle.
>
> Dwarves can make chain that has the properties of
> leather, but this
> elf-chain is not normally sold to men. They can
> also make partial,
> full, and improved plate armor. Improved plate will
> always be of
> dwarven manufacture. Among the elves and similar
> fey, plate is not in
> high demand, when considered alongside the quality
> and benefits of
> elf-chain.
>
> Two handed swords tend to be limited to Norse and
> Saxons, although the
> Claymore is found among the Scots.
>
> VI. Magic
> There are no great schools of magic in Albion.
> Tutelage is from a
> master to a student. Magicians are jealous of their
> power, secretive,
> and tend to establish themselves away from the
> cities of men, in
> lonesome wastes, enchanted forests, and windswept
> mountains.
> Nevertheless, they do consider themselves part of a
> great, if loose,
> fraternity. In Albion, they are organized
> informally under the
> direction of a great magician, Murgen, whose one
> great edict forbids
> magicians from interfering in the affairs of
> nations.
>
> Just like characters from 'Personalities of
> Sanctuary', magicians may
> learn more than one college of magic. The rules are
> in Dragon
> magazine, but essentially boil down to 6,500 XP and
> six months of time.
>
> Religion in Albion is Christian in the town, and
> pagan in the country,
> although in civilized lands the paganism is covered
> by a thin veneer
> of Christianity. Religion does not by itself confer
> any magical
> abilities, but may provide supernatural effects,
> such as the wielding
> of a cross by a devout individual in the presence of
> supernatural
> evil. If the divine does exist, there is no direct
> proof.
>
> Hermetic magicians of the traditional type tend to
> focus on
> Enchantments, Illusions, Naming Incantations,
> Shaping, and Greater
> Summonings. Elemental magics are a rarity among the
> typical hermetic
> magician. Murgen is a hermetic, and does not
> normally bother with the
> doings on non-hermetics, except for infernalists who
> draw attention to
> themselves. They often possess the skills Alchemist,
> Astrologer, and
> Mechanician.
>
> Church scholars may delve into Rune Magics, Greater
> Summonings, and
> Naming Incantations. Skills will frequently include
> Healer and Astrologer.
>
> Pagan magicians associated with the Druidic
> tradition are frequently
> Earth magicians first and foremost. The places of
> power shown on the
> Albion map are considered to benefit Earth Mages as
> per 43.2. Some
> pagan magicians may pick up other Elemental
> Colleges, and a few may
> have Water Magics as a first choice if located along
> a coastline. A
> rare few practice Lesser Summonings. Skills will
> often include Healer
> and Troubadour. The druids of France are
> particularly unpleasant.
>
> Norse magicians typically study Naming, Rune Magics,
> Shaping, and
> elemental colleges, particularly air and water
> magics. Most will have
> Astrology and Navigation as skills.
>
> Infernalists are magicians along the lines of
> Frazier, Faust, or
> Crowley, and are similar to the hermetics, except
> that they frequently
> sought power through supernatural mentoring rather
> than that of a
> mortal. They usually start with Greater Summonings
> or Black Magics,
> and can later branch out into Necromancy, Shaping,
> Rune Magics,
> Naming, and Sorceries of the Mind. They may be lone
> individuals, or
> organized into magical circles. They don't
> necessarily have any
> particular set of skills.
>
> Hedge wizards, such as a wise man or weird woman,
> tend to possess
> knowledge of Rune Magics, Black Magic, Lesser
> Summonings, and Naming,
> with the skills Healer and Astrologer.
>
> All practitioners of Black Magic must select a demon
> patron from those
> listed in the College of Greater Summonings.
>
> Enchanted and Wild Magic areas are considered to be
> High Mana. Mundane
> areas are Low Mana.
>
> The High Holy days of the calendar (the same one we
> use) are:
>
> February 1 - Imbolc (Light): A time of
> prognostication of the weather
> and other things, divinations, and watching for
> omens. Candles are
> often lit as a vigil for omens is kept. Special
> foods are made,
> hearth fires lit high, and company is kept.
> Frequently a time to make
> claims for the year or to rededicate oneself.
>
> March 21 - Ostara (Light): In some areas, ritual
> weddings between
> older women and younger men take place, the marriage
> lasting only the
> single night. This is the Vernal Equinox. This
> festival is largely
> ignored in Saxon influenced lands.
>
> April 30 - Walpurgisnacht (Dark, Necromantic): A
> night when the veil
> between the living and dead wears thin. Young people
> collect greenery
> and branches from the woods at twilight, used to
> adorn the village.
> Large bonfires are lit in the village to guide them
> back home and ward
> off evil. In some areas, folk stay up all night
> drinking, and in
> others a straw witch or monster is burned.
>
> May 1 - Beltane (Light): As Walpurgisnacht passes
> into Beltane,
> bonfires are lit ( a previously lit bonfire is tied
> to the dark
> powers!) on hilltops and mountains of importance.
> Home fires are
> extinguished and relit from this community bonfire.
> Boughs of rowan or
> hawthorn are hung from doors. In some areas maypole
> dancing is common,
> as are ritual purifications, which may include
> visiting wells or
> leaping over fires. A ribald tradition of eroticism
> exists in large
> towns and cities. A saying exists in Albion proper
> that those without
> a partner on Beltane will go without on Midsummer.
>
> May 13 - Lemuria (Necromantic): A day for exorcising
> the evil spirits,
> some walk barefoot while casting salt over their
> shoulder, or make a
> special 'salt cake', or bang brass pots together.
> This month is
> coincidentally considered bad luck for marriages.
> This is not
> celebrated in celtic lands.
>
> June 21 - Midsummer/Litha (Light): Celebrated with
> bonfires and
> cat-burnings, street festivals and parades, and
> impromptu or mass
> marriages. Some visit healing wells or collect
> special herbs for use
> later on in the year.
>
> August 1 - Lughnasadh (Light): A time for community
> festivals, horse
> races, and family reunions. Contests of strength
> and skill are made,
> and marriages arranged. Fields are also blessed on
> this day.
>
> September 21 - Mabon (Light): A harvest festival,
> and the Autumnal
> Equinox.
>
> October 31 - Samhain(Dark, Necromantic): A time to
> take account of
> livestock and grain supplies, slaughter any animals
> that cannot be fed
> or survive the winter, and to light large bonfires
> to keep away evil.
> Divinations for the future are common events. A meal
> is set at the
> table for the dead, and poems, songs and dance
> performed for them.
>
> December 21 - Yule (Dark): The Winter Solstice.
> Boars are
> traditionally slaughtered, songs sung, and guilds
> choose apprentices
> to be admitted to their ranks. Among the Norse,
> male slaves may be
> sacrificed. Sharing meals and giftgiving are also
> important parts of
> the festival.
>
> VII: Skills
> I'm okay with the skills in the 2e book.
>
> VIII: Monsters
> Dwarves in Albion do not have the normal antipathy
> towards elves,
> although this is not true outside the isles, in
> places like
> Scandinavia and the Alps.
>
> Stone Giants are called Fomorians.
>
> The following monsters are common in Albion: all
> Undead, Riding
> Animals, Common Avians, Aquatic Mammals, Other Sea
> Creatures, Giant
> Humanoids (other than Titans), Fairy Folk, Earth
> Dwellers, Creatures
> of Night and Shadow, all Elementals, Hellhounds,
> Unicorns, Nagas,
> Wyverns, Suarime, Salamanders, Giant Land Turtles,
> Basilisks, Manta
> Rays, Pikes and Sharks, Gryphons, Gargoyles,
> Harpies, Wolves, Weasels,
> Rats, Stags, Oxen, Boars, Bears, Wild Cats, and
> Neanderthals. Other
> monsters should not normally appear.
>
>

----------------------------------------------------------------------

>
> The ALBION game in ARES#11 lists some magical
> rituals and magical
> items, all usable in the game, too.
>
> I now come to my second point...
> 2. Adventures - I am frequently short on time, and
> prefer to have some
> aid in developing and running adventures. Given the
> theme of Albion
> (pre-Normal England), I would consider any
> suggestions or
> modifications of existing adventures.
>
> I have considered the 'Dragon Warriors' game books
> series for a source
> of adventures based on a game world (Legend) with a
> similar feel. The
> adventures and rules are split up among six books
> (see Home of the
> Underdogs for pdf downloads of the OOP books). I
> would only need to
> give stats for the encounters and everything would
> fall into place.
>
> Essentially, the players start as itinerant
> knights/nobility in the
> lands of Baron Aldred, and come to his notice after
> several adventures
> which involve treachery against him. In the service
> to the Baron,
> they preserve his life and rule, but eventually can
> be drawn to lands
> further to the north (in this case, Scotland is our
> analog) in what
> amounts to a horror-fest of Lovecraftian
> proportions. If a
> continuance is desired, the five Blood Sword books
> by the same authors
> details adventures in what is analagous to the
> Mediterranean and
> Eastern Europe, and the possible end of the world.
> The Graeme Davis
> Sethmet(sp?) adventure would fit in as a nice
> sideline.
>
> Anyhow, those are some of my thoughts on what I
> might like to do with
> Dragon Quest. Hopefully, there are plenty of others
> still playing
> this game.
>
> Erudite
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

____________________________________________________________________________________
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> If you feel like venturing into the realm of Alusia
> however, I cannot recommend highly enough a rather
> incredible bunch of Kiwis who have been running a
> multi-GM DQ game since forever..

It should be noted that the bulk of material on here is lots of peoples
different idea's of a fantasy world mashed together. I wouldn't recommend
using the place wholesale as there are lots of inconsistancies.

That said some of the area's are quite well defined and taking ideas to
include in your own worlds would work really well.

And we havn't actually been playing forever it just feels like it some weeks
:-)

Mandos
/s

Hi Lev,

I used to have the Thieves World boxed set, way back when. It was lost
long ago! So sad...

I took a look at the nz link; I guess the Alusia product covered that
NW corner of the Alusia region? It reminds me of the Warhammer map!
How much detail was given about the region covered by the map in the
product?

What do the red stars on the map mean, and the white ones?

I'm sure I will have more ideas, and when I do, I'll put them up.
Thanks,
-E

--- eruditeredux <eruditeredux@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Hi Lev,
>
> I used to have the Thieves World boxed set, way back
> when. It was lost
> long ago! So sad...

I was fortunate to repurchase it a couple of years
ago. I don't know what I was thinking when I sold in
the first place. *shakes head*

I've been thinking of running a mini-campaign using it
and setting it in a fantasy version of
Zanzibar/Dar-Es-Salaam. I reckon that would rock
muchly.

> I took a look at the nz link; I guess the Alusia
> product covered that
> NW corner of the Alusia region?

That sounds right.

> It reminds me of
> the Warhammer map!

Yeah, fantasy geography based on real world geography
is sometimes good and, in my opinion, sometimes very
annoying. The WH world is so much like a fantasy earth
they may as well have made it fantasy earth.

> How much detail was given about the region covered
> by the map in the
> product?

Don't know.. This looks pretty comprehensive tho'

http://dragonquest.org.nz/dqwiki/index.php/Lands_of_Alusia

>
> What do the red stars on the map mean, and the white
> ones?
>

Which map are talking about?


All the best,


Lev



____________________________________________________________________________________
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Text or chat with friends inside Yahoo! Mail. See how. http://overview.mail.yahoo.com/

--- In dqn-list@yahoogroups.com, "eruditeredux" <eruditeredux@...> wrote:

>> I took a look at the nz link; I guess the Alusia product covered that
> NW corner of the Alusia region? It reminds me of the Warhammer map!
> How much detail was given about the region covered by the map in the
> product?
>
> What do the red stars on the map mean, and the white ones?
>
> I'm sure I will have more ideas, and when I do, I'll put them up.
> Thanks,
> -E
>

If you do a search on E-bay, you can still find the Frontiers of
Alusia map for sale occasionally. I bought a brand new copy about two
months ago for about $25.

The red stars on the Frontiers Of Alusia map are High Mana areas; the
white ones are Low Mana areas.

Chris

I set my DQ adventures in the old Judges Guild "Wilderlands of High
Fantasy/City State of the Invincible Overlord" setting. It is perfect
for evil cultists with Black Magic or Summoning, lurking Necromancy,
obscure cults and sects, and ye Olde Enchantment Shoppe with lots of
Ensorcelments and Enchantments people running about.

The feel is Howard/Leiber - dark swords and sorcery imposed upon a
chaotic wilderness that buries an old technically advanced civilization.

Hello and welcome to the group.

You'll find various diverse viewpoints here. :)

I haven't actually managed to play a lot of DQ due to various RL issues
and availability here, but it's my all time favorite fantasy RPG system.
If you only have the books, You might want to take a look through the
files section of the group, there is lots of stuff there. The weapons
pdf I compiled could come handy, as it somewhat expands on the weapons
and armor lists of DQ and has ironed out inconsistencies between the
various versions. Plus it has everything in one place, too.


Best regards,
Edi

--- John Hitchens <makofan@yahoo.com> wrote:

> I set my DQ adventures in the old Judges Guild
> "Wilderlands of High
> Fantasy/City State of the Invincible Overlord"
> setting. It is perfect
> for evil cultists with Black Magic or Summoning,
> lurking Necromancy,
> obscure cults and sects, and ye Olde Enchantment
> Shoppe with lots of
> Ensorcelments and Enchantments people running about.
>

That's a seriously cool setting for a magic-intensive
DQ game. I think you could combine it with the
recommended Albion setting as well...


____________________________________________________________________________________
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

Thanks for the welcome, all!

John_Rauchert put up a document of DQ in TW, including the
personalities of Sanctuary.

Oh, I must run! Rats.

-E

> Hello and welcome to the group.
>

[snip]

>
> Best regards,
> Edi

Hi,

My brother this an extension of the Alusia map, you may be interested, it is
here:

http://www.iosphere.net/~eric/dq/foa.htm

Snafaru



-----Original Message-----
From: dqn-list@yahoogroups.com [mailto:dqn-list@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Chris C
Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2007 12:26 AM
To: dqn-list@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DQN-list] Re: New Member, Hello

--- In dqn-list@yahoogroups.com, "eruditeredux" <eruditeredux@...> wrote:
>> I took a look at the nz link; I guess the Alusia product covered that
> NW corner of the Alusia region? It reminds me of the Warhammer map!
> How much detail was given about the region covered by the map in the
> product?
>
> What do the red stars on the map mean, and the white ones?
>
> I'm sure I will have more ideas, and when I do, I'll put them up.
> Thanks,
> -E
>

If you do a search on E-bay, you can still find the Frontiers of Alusia map
for sale occasionally. I bought a brand new copy about two months ago for
about $25.

The red stars on the Frontiers Of Alusia map are High Mana areas; the white
ones are Low Mana areas.

Chris




Yahoo! Groups Links

I also added an unproofed OCR version in .doc format in case anyone
wants to undertake making a clean text editable copy of this document.

JohnR, Co-Moderator of DQN-list, drrules, and Universe_RPG


--- In dqn-list@yahoogroups.com, "eruditeredux" <eruditeredux@...>
wrote:

>
> Thanks for the welcome, all!
>
> John_Rauchert put up a document of DQ in TW, including the
> personalities of Sanctuary.

Wilderlands of High Fantasy and City State of the Invincible Overlord
have been released as D20 supplements by Necromancer Games/Judges
Guild/Sword & Sorcery Studio

http://www.judgesguild.com/

They were fairly expensive but worth it in my opinion (the website also
has some older JG material for sale).

--- In dqn-list@yahoogroups.com, "John Hitchens" <makofan@...> wrote:
>
> I set my DQ adventures in the old Judges Guild "Wilderlands of High
> Fantasy/City State of the Invincible Overlord" setting.

I finally have some time to write!

I was lucky enough to find a .pdf file of the FoA content, and a good
scan of the original FoA map. Gratis, too. I downloaded from here
and elsewhere the following adventures, as well: The House of Kurin,
The Water Works, Roll out the Barrel, Jack of All Trades, The Treasure
of Socantri, and Sethotep. I already have The Camp of Alla Akbar in
the 23 and 3e books I own.

I did end up purchasing Near Mint condition adventures, "The Blade of
Allectus" and "The Palace of Ontocale". Unfortunately, I was unable
to locate a copy of "The Enchanted Forest" or a hard copy of Alusia,
but perhaps something will pop up again at some time in the future.

I was getting ready to run a 3.5e DND game in the next month or two,
having decided against converting all of what I have over to 4e. But
having rediscovered DQ, I want to give it a run. My usual play group
has disintegrated over the last few months; we are all at an age when
spouses, kids, and jobs seem to demand more time than can be given, so
I'm looking for new players.

I probably need my head examined, since I want to find players for a
game that is at least 20 years out of publication, but there it is.
Once I have at least two players, I want to start the characters in
Jungar and run Alla Akbar.

As far as the extension to the Alusia Map, thanks for the linky. I
have my own ideas for the north, but there may be some inspiration I
can get from looking at it over time.

John, I also used to own almost all of the JG stuff, from WoHF,
CCotIO, CSotVE, Caverns of Thracia, etc.Of course, I no longer have it. :(

We played many DND games set in that world, and I agree that it is
very usable with DQ, right down to the 5mi hexes on the overland maps.
I'm not sure if I want to spend money right now on re-purchasing that
product, but the color map is free.

I always loved the weird encounters or places of interest cited for
the wilderness hexes.

Yes! I managed to score "The Enchanted Woods" by Jaquays. I have heard
that this one was one of the best adventures by SPI for DQ. I should
see the three adventures I bought start arriving in about a week. Once
I have a chance to read them thoroughly, I'll post a review at RPG.net
and at Amazon. I've never bothered to post a review before, but I feel
that 1) the game deserves any attention it can get and 2) these
modules have not been reviewed anywhere I can find by googling.
Mostly likely I won't get to post a review before December.

Has anyone any idea about the experience level of adventurers for "The
Blade of Allectus" or "The Palace of Ontocle" or "The Enchanted Woods"?

--- eruditeredux <eruditeredux@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Yes! I managed to score "The Enchanted Woods" by
> Jaquays. I have heard
> that this one was one of the best adventures by SPI
> for DQ. I should
> see the three adventures I bought start arriving in
> about a week. Once
> I have a chance to read them thoroughly, I'll post a
> review at RPG.net
> and at Amazon. I've never bothered to post a review
> before, but I feel
> that 1) the game deserves any attention it can get
> and 2) these
> modules have not been reviewed anywhere I can find
> by googling.
> Mostly likely I won't get to post a review before
> December.
>
> Has anyone any idea about the experience level of
> adventurers for "The
> Blade of Allectus" or "The Palace of Ontocle" or
> "The Enchanted Woods"?

Low-ranked characters are adequate for the Blade of
Allectus. The Palace is suitable for a range of
characters, but I'd say a little higher is best.



____________________________________________________________________________________
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

I've successfully run beginners on up through experienced ones all three.

~Jeffery~

> Yes! I managed to score "The Enchanted Woods" by Jaquays. I have heard
> that this one was one of the best adventures by SPI for DQ. I should
> see the three adventures I bought start arriving in about a week. Once
> I have a chance to read them thoroughly, I'll post a review at RPG.net
> and at Amazon. I've never bothered to post a review before, but I feel
> that 1) the game deserves any attention it can get and 2) these
> modules have not been reviewed anywhere I can find by googling.
> Mostly likely I won't get to post a review before December.
>
> Has anyone any idea about the experience level of adventurers for "The
> Blade of Allectus" or "The Palace of Ontocle" or "The Enchanted Woods"?
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

I agree with Jeff. I've run all 3 with freshly generated characters to veterans. It just
depends on what part of the adventure you run them through. DQ is much more about
smart play than power play. Smart players think through the obstacles or avoid them.
People who try to power play DQ like it was D&D end up with dead characters.
-Dean M.

--- In dqn-list@yahoogroups.com, "eruditeredux" <eruditeredux@...> wrote:
>
> Yes! I managed to score "The Enchanted Woods" by Jaquays. I have heard
> that this one was one of the best adventures by SPI for DQ. I should
> see the three adventures I bought start arriving in about a week. Once
> I have a chance to read them thoroughly, I'll post a review at RPG.net
> and at Amazon. I've never bothered to post a review before, but I feel
> that 1) the game deserves any attention it can get and 2) these
> modules have not been reviewed anywhere I can find by googling.
> Mostly likely I won't get to post a review before December.
>
> Has anyone any idea about the experience level of adventurers for "The
> Blade of Allectus" or "The Palace of Ontocle" or "The Enchanted Woods"?
>

I'll try to keep the change in play style in mind; I note that
defenses to not really scale as much as they do in DND. Using the
right tactics and teamwork seem to be the name of the game, as does
outright ambush, sniping, and dirty tricks.

I just got 'The Blade of Allectus' in the mail, and am reading it
right now. Looks like fun, but a very different adventure than what I
had supposed, which is good. I needed a bit of fresh air.

----- Original Message -----

From: eruditeredux

To: dqn-list@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2007 6:40 PM

Subject: [DQN-list] Re: Made some purchases

Yes! I managed to score "The Enchanted Woods" by Jaquays. I have heard
that this one was one of the best adventures by SPI for DQ. I should
see the three adventures I bought start arriving in about a week. Once
I have a chance to read them thoroughly, I'll post a review at RPG.net
and at Amazon. I've never bothered to post a review before, but I feel
that 1) the game deserves any attention it can get and 2) these
modules have not been reviewed anywhere I can find by googling.
Mostly likely I won't get to post a review before December.

Has anyone any idea about the experience level of adventurers for "The
Blade of Allectus" or "The Palace of Ontocle" or "The Enchanted Woods"?

__________ NOD32 2670 (20071119) Information __________

This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
http://www.eset.com

----- Original Message -----

From: Lev Lafayette

To: dqn-list@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2007 6:43 PM

Subject: Re: [DQN-list] Re: Made some purchases

--- eruditeredux <eruditeredux@ yahoo.com> wrote:

> Yes! I managed to score "The Enchanted Woods" by
> Jaquays. I have heard
> that this one was one of the best adventures by SPI
> for DQ. I should
> see the three adventures I bought start arriving in
> about a week. Once
> I have a chance to read them thoroughly, I'll post a
> review at RPG.net
> and at Amazon. I've never bothered to post a review
> before, but I feel
> that 1) the game deserves any attention it can get
> and 2) these
> modules have not been reviewed anywhere I can find
> by googling.
> Mostly likely I won't get to post a review before
> December.
>
> Has anyone any idea about the experience level of
> adventurers for "The
> Blade of Allectus" or "The Palace of Ontocle" or
> "The Enchanted Woods"?

Low-ranked characters are adequate for the Blade of
Allectus. The Palace is suitable for a range of
characters, but I'd say a little higher is best.

____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
http://www.yahoo. com/r/hs

__________ NOD32 2670 (20071119) Information __________

This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
http://www.eset.com

Hullo, Lev,

In a message of November 14th, 2007m, Lev Lafayette wrote,

>>I used to have the Thieves World boxed set, way back
>>when. It was lost long ago! So sad...
>
> I was fortunate to repurchase it a couple of years
> ago. I don't know what I was thinking when I sold in
> the first place. *shakes head*

That's sad, Lev, as the Thieves' World boxed set had some
interesting stuff for DRAGONQUEST in it. Glad to hear that you were
able to buy another copy of the TW set, although it's not as rare out in
the marketplace as one might expect.

>>I took a look at the nz link; I guess the Alusia
>>product covered that NW corner of the Alusia region?
>
> That sounds right.

Yep, that's right. :)

>>How much detail was given about the region covered
>>by the map in the product?
>
> Don't know.. This looks pretty comprehensive tho'
>
> http://dragonquest.org.nz/dqwiki/index.php/Lands_of_Alusia

There was enough detail given in the booklet to whet one's
appetite, but it was pretty good for its day, and was an interesting way
of handlin the game mapping process at the time.

>>What do the red stars on the map mean, and the white
>>ones?
>
> Which map are talking about?

On the map of Alusia, the red stars represented High Mana areas,
and the White Stars represented Low Mana Areas.

...Education is a poor substitute for cognition.

--
JohnK
e-mail: jkahane@comnet.ca
web: http://www.comnet.ca/~jkahane
blog: http://jkahane.livejournal.com

Hullo, Lev,

In a message of November 15th, 2007, Lev Lafayette wrote,

>>I set my DQ adventures in the old Judges Guild "Wilderlands of High
>>Fantasy/City State of the Invincible Overlord" setting. It is perfect
>>for evil cultists with Black Magic or Summoning, lurking Necromancy,
>>obscure cults and sects, and ye Olde Enchantment Shoppe with lots of
>>Ensorcelments and Enchantments people running about.
>
> That's a seriously cool setting for a magic-intensive
> DQ game. I think you could combine it with the
> recommended Albion setting as well...

Actually, the Albion setting from Ares Magazine and the game Land
of Albion are, to my mind at least, very different in feel. The former
draws on the old Celtic myths and all, whereas the latter has a more
"gaming" feel for magic and all.

Still, the Albion setting modifications that were done up in Ares
Magazing for DQ were very nice.

...Most of the universe plays hard-to-get.

--
JohnK
e-mail: jkahane@comnet.ca
web: http://www.comnet.ca/~jkahane
blog: http://jkahane.livejournal.com

Hullo, Eruditeredux,

In a message of November 18th, 2007, eruditeredux wrote,

> I finally have some time to write!

Good to hear. :)

> I was lucky enough to find a .pdf file of the FoA content, and a good
> scan of the original FoA map. Gratis, too. I downloaded from here
> and elsewhere the following adventures, as well: The House of Kurin,
> The Water Works, Roll out the Barrel, Jack of All Trades, The Treasure
> of Socantri, and Sethotep. I already have The Camp of Alla Akbar in
> the 23 and 3e books I own.

Some of the fan generated modules are very good , particularly
"The Water Works" and "Jack of All Trades". "The Camp of Alla-Akabar",
"The House of Kurin", and "The Treasure of Socantri" are all very good
published scenarios for the game, but I never found them really suitable
for true beginning player characters, as per the rulebook, although
Alla-Akabar is good for this purpose.

> I did end up purchasing Near Mint condition adventures, "The Blade of
> Allectus" and "The Palace of Ontocale". Unfortunately, I was unable
> to locate a copy of "The Enchanted Forest" or a hard copy of Alusia,
> but perhaps something will pop up again at some time in the future.

I am rather fond of "The Palace of Ontoncle", but my players
rather compared that "castle crawl" to every castle they've found since,
and well... :) "The Blade of Allectus" is just a fun scenario, and
different in feel, and was excellent. Get a copy of "The Enchanted
Wood" if you can, as it was simply brilliant. :)

> I probably need my head examined, since I want to find players for a
> game that is at least 20 years out of publication, but there it is.

Actually, there are quite a few of us still running the old
DRAGONQUEST system. Granted, there are a lot of modifications and new
rules and material that you can use with it from the mailing lists and
all, but this is not a bad thing.

> Once I have at least two players, I want to start the characters in
> Jungar and run Alla Akbar.

Yay! Good starting point. :)

..."While it's fine to forgive your enemies, never forget to learn their
True Names." - Claysia, Naming Adept

--
JohnK
e-mail: jkahane@comnet.ca
web: http://www.comnet.ca/~jkahane
blog: http://jkahane.livejournal.com

Hullo, Eruditeredux,

In a message of Movember 18th, 2007, eruditeredux wrote,

> Yes! I managed to score "The Enchanted Woods" by Jaquays.

Good stuff! :)

> I have heard that this one was one of the best adventures
> by SPI for DQ.

Yes, yes, it is. :)

> I should see the three adventures I bought start arriving in
> about a week. Once I have a chance to read them thoroughly,
> I'll post a review at RPG.net and at Amazon.

Look forward to reading the reviews on these that you post.

> Has anyone any idea about the experience level of adventurers for "The
> Blade of Allectus" or "The Palace of Ontocle" or "The Enchanted Woods"?

I suspect that you'll get a few differing viewpoints on this issue
to be honest. Starting characters (as per the rules on such in the DQ
rulebook) will likely find all three scenarios challenging to say the
least, but I suspect from my own experience with the scenarios that "The
Blade of Allectus" is the best suited in this regard for starting
characters. A simple adventure on the fringes of "The Enchanted Wood"
also works well, too.

...Neo-pagan Barbie. Wand, incense, athame, and pentacle sold separately.

--
JohnK
e-mail: jkahane@comnet.ca
web: http://www.comnet.ca/~jkahane
blog: http://jkahane.livejournal.com

Hullo, Jeffery,

In a message of November 18th, 2007, Jeffery K. McGonagill wrote,

> I've successfully run beginners on up through experienced ones all three.

Out of curiosity, Jeff, how are you defining beginners here for
this purpose?

...Brevity is the soul of lingerie. (Dorothy Parker)

--
JohnK
e-mail: jkahane@comnet.ca
web: http://www.comnet.ca/~jkahane
blog: http://jkahane.livejournal.com

Hullo, Eruditeredux,

In a message of November 19th, 2007, eruditeredux wrote,

> I'll try to keep the change in play style in mind; I note that
> defenses to not really scale as much as they do in DND. Using the
> right tactics and teamwork seem to be the name of the game, as does
> outright ambush, sniping, and dirty tricks.

Team tactics are certainly a vital compoment of combat in the
DRAGONQUEST system, but there are other factors involved. A good
Defense can work wonders in the game, to be honest, and the use of
defensive spells should never be ignored.

> I just got 'The Blade of Allectus' in the mail, and am reading it
> right now. Looks like fun, but a very different adventure than what I
> had supposed, which is good. I needed a bit of fresh air.

Yes, "The Blade of Allectus" is a scenario that is not cut from the
cloth that is usually associated with such a game set-up as this. I
just love a couple of the plot twists and turns of that scenario.

...Personally, I'm convinced thart alligators have the right idea. They
eat their young." - Ida (Eve Arden, Mildred Pierce)

--
JohnK
e-mail: jkahane@comnet.ca
web: http://www.comnet.ca/~jkahane
blog: http://jkahane.livejournal.com

So many! I appreciate the thoughts and opinions. I'm going to re-read
Blade of Allectus today.

I am a bit taken aback at how inexperienced starting characters are.
I'm reading that Aestus' daughter, Decuma, who is 18 years old, has a
starting familiarity with the College of Naming Incantations (just like
a PC), but knows:
4 modern languages at Rank 4 (4,800 XP)
5 ancient languages at Rank 3 (6,000 Xp)
Troubadour Rank 3 (1,150 XP)
Beast Master Rank 5 (4,950 XP)
Healer Rank 3 (6,500 XP)

This comes to a total of about 23,500 XP! At 15 XP per day of practice,
and assume 300 days of doing so, over 5 years to get all of this XP.
Now, I do not have a problem with where she is at, it seems fine for the
young daughter of an accomplished magician. I just can't see player
characters being so far behind!

Has anyone started characters out with XP in the bank? How has it
worked out?

-------------- Original message --------------
From: John M Kahane <jkahane@comnet.ca>

> Hullo, Jeffery,
>
> In a message of November 18th, 2007, Jeffery K. McGonagill wrote,
>
>
> > I've successfully run beginners on up through experienced ones all three.
>
> Out of curiosity, Jeff, how are you defining beginners here for
> this purpose?
>
> ...Brevity is the soul of lingerie. (Dorothy Parker)
>
> --
> JohnK
> e-mail: jkahane@comnet.ca
> web: http://www.comnet.ca/~jkahane
> blog: http://jkahane.livejournal.com
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
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--- eruditeredux <eruditeredux@yahoo.com> wrote:

> So many! I appreciate the thoughts and opinions.
> I'm going to re-read
> Blade of Allectus today.
>
> I am a bit taken aback at how inexperienced starting
> characters are.
> I'm reading that Aestus' daughter, Decuma, who is 18
> years old, has a
> starting familiarity with the College of Naming
> Incantations (just like
> a PC), but knows:
> 4 modern languages at Rank 4 (4,800 XP)
> 5 ancient languages at Rank 3 (6,000 Xp)
> Troubadour Rank 3 (1,150 XP)
> Beast Master Rank 5 (4,950 XP)
> Healer Rank 3 (6,500 XP)
>
> This comes to a total of about 23,500 XP! At 15 XP
> per day of practice,
> and assume 300 days of doing so, over 5 years to get
> all of this XP.

She's a very studious lass. If one assumes a
ancient-medieval "coming of age" at puberty then
that's not within the realms of being impossible.

> Now, I do not have a problem with where she is at,
> it seems fine for the
> young daughter of an accomplished magician. I just
> can't see player
> characters being so far behind!

Well, let's assume she's worked very hard at it. And
let's assume, that PCs are a bit slacker. Start them
with 10,000 XP gross.

> Has anyone started characters out with XP in the
> bank? How has it
> worked out?

Almost every DQ game I've ever been in has started the
PCs with at least a few thousand XP in the bank.

HTH,



Lev


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"Dude, do something really bad the
first time, and no one will ever
think of asking you again."

- slacker magician after a backfire.

Lev, now that you mention that Decuma might be an overachiever, is it
okay for the characters to hate her? ;)

I like the bit about the golem missing what should have been an easy
target. I've seen similar luck with an old acquaintance of mine; he'd
get whacked by every two-bit goblin, but God forbid should he ever get
upset by the BBG. Lol.

I still own a swack of JG stuff. Here is one of my file boxes to prove
it:

http://johnrauchert.brinkster.net/dq/filebox_JG.jpg

My friends used to play alot of JG based stuff. My favourite time was
running across a group of sirens on some rocks in the middle of a plain
(we finally figured out the encounter was supposed to be coded for an
ocean hex). But it took a while to try get the image of sirens luring
us to our doom as we rolled along in our wagons.

Good Times.

JohnR


--- In dqn-list@yahoogroups.com, "eruditeredux" <eruditeredux@...>
wrote:

>
> John, I also used to own almost all of the JG stuff, from WoHF,
> CCotIO, CSotVE, Caverns of Thracia, etc.Of course, I no longer have

it. :(

>
> We played many DND games set in that world, and I agree that it is
> very usable with DQ, right down to the 5mi hexes on the overland maps.
> I'm not sure if I want to spend money right now on re-purchasing that
> product, but the color map is free.
>
> I always loved the weird encounters or places of interest cited for
> the wilderness hexes.
>

--- eruditeredux <eruditeredux@yahoo.com> wrote:

> "Dude, do something really bad the
> first time, and no one will ever
> think of asking you again."
>
> - slacker magician after a backfire.
>
> Lev, now that you mention that Decuma might be an
> overachiever, is it
> okay for the characters to hate her? ;)
>

Haha! Well, as it says there's not much else to do on
the island apart from study. Mind, she's a bit in
planet cute territory*, summoning rabbits and having
pixies watching over her.

All the best,


Lev

* For those who don't get the reference.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmLa8lwyuzw


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Lev, she reminds me of Altaira from Forbidden Planet, and I'm kind of
working out how to use that movie when I get to running this adventure.

Hmmm...

Morbius = Aestus (I need to channel Walter Pidgeon)
Altaira = Decuma (no tiger, but an out of control troll will work)
The Krell = the ancient tower and its library. Keryx the golem is
essentially the Id monster created by the Krell, and Allectus the
representative of his ancient, and long gone, civilization.

I'm not too happy with Menelaus. He is kind of intruding on player
character territory, and removes a good source of player motivation,
namely the comely daughter of the supposed bad guy. It might be best
to make Menelaus a much older, grizzled soldier who is permanently
crippled by his torture.

The Duke's brother Ofonius and Commiodanus decidedly break with the
movie; all of the crew were loyal. That is fine, I just want
inspiration, not a reproduction.

That means we go to the original source material, The Tempest!

Antonio then is Ofonius. The goblins and trolls serve the place of
Caliban. Fine. Where Caliban enlists crew members to usurp Prospero,
the goblins can recognize an opportunity and approach Commiodanus
(perceived to be the leader) or the strongest party member, for aid in
freeing them from 'the unjust rule of the tyrant Aestus'. Of course
the goblins can't be trusted if the plan sours or Aestus is killed or
rendered helpless.

Aestus will recognize any potential love interests between Decuma and
any visitors he knows of. Unlike Morbius, he does a Prospero, and
tests the love interest to determine his worth, while pretending to be
jealously guarding his daughter. This can involve a quest, or later
adventure. Yeah, good by Menelaus!

This leaves the Krell, I mean, the ancient civilization of which this
was once an outpost, and to whom Allectus belonged. Nothing is
mentioned in the Frontiers of Allusia product. I need to go to the
wiki/nz site and look around. Unfortunately evens like the
Kinslaying, Sith's revenge, and the city of Panjari are unexplained.

I do know that the island was an outpost of Panjari, and that Panjari
was itself a colony of Shorapur. This could be the same civilization
that Allectus belonged to (but is not required to be).

-E

> Haha! Well, as it says there's not much else to do on
> the island apart from study. Mind, she's a bit in
> planet cute territory*, summoning rabbits and having
> pixies watching over her.
>
> All the best,
>
>
> Lev
>

____________________________________________________________________________________

> Be a better sports nut! Let your teams follow you
> with Yahoo Mobile. Try it now.

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>

I am presently playing D&D 3.5 because this is what my group is
playing. Regardless of you opinion of D&D I think that system has two
improvements that could be brought into DQ and improve the game. The
first is the pair of skills Bluff and Diplomancy. These skills allow
the character to be better than the player in these areas. I would
suggest that they be along the lines of Horsemanship in being general
skills not tied to any skill package. The second improvement is NPC
classes. I think a series of NPC only skill packages to cover various
professions is better than trying to either make something on the fly
or have all the NPCs be various PC skill packages. This would also
allow the GM to build a stable of NPCs easier - after all, I doubt any
of us has the time to create unique NPCs for all encounters from
scratch. I intend to start a DQ campaign and use these as house rules.

--- gruundehn <gruundehn@yahoo.com> wrote:

> I am presently playing D&D 3.5 because this is what
> my group is
> playing. Regardless of you opinion of D&D I think
> that system has two
> improvements that could be brought into DQ and
> improve the game. The
> first is the pair of skills Bluff and Diplomancy.
> These skills allow
> the character to be better than the player in these
> areas. I would
> suggest that they be along the lines of Horsemanship
> in being general
> skills not tied to any skill package.

This bit I agree with. "Cross-class" skills are a bit
of a bugbear in DQ because of the degree that skills
and occupations are so strongly tied. With, of course,
the exception for weapons...

> The second
> improvement is NPC
> classes. I think a series of NPC only skill packages
> to cover various
> professions is better than trying to either make
> something on the fly
> or have all the NPCs be various PC skill packages.
> This would also
> allow the GM to build a stable of NPCs easier -
> after all, I doubt any
> of us has the time to create unique NPCs for all
> encounters from
> scratch. I intend to start a DQ campaign and use
> these as house rules.

Well, I've never really seen the need for specific NPC
classes personally...





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--- gruundehn <gruundehn@yahoo. com> wrote:

> I am presently playing D&D 3.5 because this is what
> my group is
> playing. Regardless of you opinion of D&D I think
> that system has two
> improvements that could be brought into DQ and
> improve the game. The
> first is the pair of skills Bluff and Diplomancy.
> These skills allow
> the character to be better than the player in these
> areas. I would
> suggest that they be along the lines of Horsemanship
> in being general
> skills not tied to any skill package.

This bit I agree with. "Cross-class" skills are a bit
of a bugbear in DQ because of the degree that skills
and occupations are so strongly tied. With, of course,
the exception for weapons...

> The second
> improvement is NPC
> classes. I think a series of NPC only skill packages
> to cover various
> professions is better than trying to either make
> something on the fly
> or have all the NPCs be various PC skill packages.
> This would also
> allow the GM to build a stable of NPCs easier -
> after all, I doubt any
> of us has the time to create unique NPCs for all
> encounters from
> scratch. I intend to start a DQ campaign and use
> these as house rules.

Well, I've never really seen the need for specific NPC
classes personally.. .

____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
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---

Be a better pen pal. Text or chat with friends inside Yahoo! Mail. See how.

Your can go even further back to Shakespeare. Both
Forbidden Planet and Blade of Allectus were based on
The Tempest. (Which I saw performed at Stratford
once.) Now that I think about it I may pull out Blade
of Allectus re-do it for D&D 4 (when it comes out)
and use it as a starting adventure. One fond memory of
DQ involved a party with a PS 8 Namer who saw the
Trolls failed a fright check. (with a WP of 18!), ran
to the sealed door, broke it down (rolled 01 on the
check), found the goblin and killed it in close
combat. There were a lot of jokes after that about
putting her in the front line with the fighter types.
--- eruditeredux <eruditeredux@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Lev, she reminds me of Altaira from Forbidden
> Planet, and I'm kind of
> working out how to use that movie when I get to
> running this adventure.
>
> Hmmm...
>
> Morbius = Aestus (I need to channel Walter Pidgeon)
> Altaira = Decuma (no tiger, but an out of control
> troll will work)
> The Krell = the ancient tower and its library.
> Keryx the golem is
> essentially the Id monster created by the Krell, and
> Allectus the
> representative of his ancient, and long gone,
> civilization.
>
> I'm not too happy with Menelaus. He is kind of
> intruding on player
> character territory, and removes a good source of
> player motivation,
> namely the comely daughter of the supposed bad guy.
> It might be best
> to make Menelaus a much older, grizzled soldier who
> is permanently
> crippled by his torture.
>
> The Duke's brother Ofonius and Commiodanus decidedly
> break with the
> movie; all of the crew were loyal. That is fine, I
> just want
> inspiration, not a reproduction.
>
> That means we go to the original source material,
> The Tempest!
>
> Antonio then is Ofonius. The goblins and trolls
> serve the place of
> Caliban. Fine. Where Caliban enlists crew members
> to usurp Prospero,
> the goblins can recognize an opportunity and
> approach Commiodanus
> (perceived to be the leader) or the strongest party
> member, for aid in
> freeing them from 'the unjust rule of the tyrant
> Aestus'. Of course
> the goblins can't be trusted if the plan sours or
> Aestus is killed or
> rendered helpless.
>
> Aestus will recognize any potential love interests
> between Decuma and
> any visitors he knows of. Unlike Morbius, he does a
> Prospero, and
> tests the love interest to determine his worth,
> while pretending to be
> jealously guarding his daughter. This can involve a
> quest, or later
> adventure. Yeah, good by Menelaus!
>
> This leaves the Krell, I mean, the ancient
> civilization of which this
> was once an outpost, and to whom Allectus belonged.
> Nothing is
> mentioned in the Frontiers of Allusia product. I
> need to go to the
> wiki/nz site and look around. Unfortunately evens
> like the
> Kinslaying, Sith's revenge, and the city of Panjari
> are unexplained.
>
> I do know that the island was an outpost of Panjari,
> and that Panjari
> was itself a colony of Shorapur. This could be the
> same civilization
> that Allectus belonged to (but is not required to
> be).
>
> -E
>
> > Haha! Well, as it says there's not much else to do
> on
> > the island apart from study. Mind, she's a bit in
> > planet cute territory*, summoning rabbits and
> having
> > pixies watching over her.
> >
> > All the best,
> >
> >
> > Lev
> >
>
>

____________________________________________________________________________________

> > Be a better sports nut! Let your teams follow you
>
> > with Yahoo Mobile. Try it now.
>

http://mobile.yahoo.com/sports;_ylt=At9_qDKvtAbMuh1G1SQtBI7ntAcJ

> >
>
>
>

____________________________________________________________________________________
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--- In dqn-list@yahoogroups.com, Christopher Cole <gruundehn@...> wrote:

>
> My sole reason for wishing to add NPC classes is to make it easier

to generate NPCs. For example, shopkeepers will tend to be very
similar and having the "frame" to hang any details on would allow me
to generate a city easier. I could have, say: 12 Rank 5 shopkeepers,
25 Rank 4 shopkeepers, etc. and the only work I'd need to do is
generate the slight differences between them. [snip]

At one time, I would have put the time and effort into something like
this, but as my gaming history has increased, my willingness to put
that much effort into what are in essence role-playing or storytelling
elements can simply be handwaved.

Have you had the need for a Farmer rank 7 or Shopkeeper rank 4? What
benefit do you think you will get by quantifying NPCs for non-conflict
skills?

Thanks, -E

--- In dqn-list@yahoogroups.com, Dean Martelle <gallants2@...> wrote:

>
> Your can go even further back to Shakespeare. Both
> Forbidden Planet and Blade of Allectus were based on
> The Tempest. (Which I saw performed at Stratford
> once.) Now that I think about it I may pull out Blade
> of Allectus re-do it for D&D 4 (when it comes out)
> and use it as a starting adventure. One fond memory of
> DQ involved a party with a PS 8 Namer who saw the
> Trolls failed a fright check. (with a WP of 18!), ran
> to the sealed door, broke it down (rolled 01 on the
> check), found the goblin and killed it in close
> combat. There were a lot of jokes after that about
> putting her in the front line with the fighter types.

The 'killer bunny' effect!

As to 4eDND, I don't want to go off topic, but the more I hear about
it, the more I think that it really is some other game that shares the
same name as DND. I loathe WoW and EQI/II, and I really see that the
4th edition news has done nothing to make me believe that the game
will not be a P&P version of the same. I may be surprised, but if not,
I cannot find it in my heart to play.

I also dislike rules change. Probably why I like OOP games.! :) For
DND I'll stick to 3.5e.

OK, shopkeeper can be handled by the Merchant skill package. I'm more concerned about the craftsmen who create things like arms and armor, clothing, saddles, etc. Aristocrats would be heavy into the diplomacy, sages would be good sources for research material, etc. Yes, I could fiat all of this but I want consistency so that if I say NPC Fred knows does quality work I don't have him suddenly turning out crap. Years ago I had a magic item that I screwed up and lost a player (and a good one) becasue of it. I try now to avoid major slip-ups like that. Besides, I like the idea of having the players lose out to a 17th-level aristocrat (example taken from Yet Another Fantasy Gaming Comic, it's a webcomic I like.) as well as the consistency of having the knowledge about the NPCs abilities on hand. I'll probably use the NPC skills only until I can be comfortable enough with the system to fiat that sort of everyhting. I have never run a DQ campaign, nor played in one either, but I have always liked the system.

eruditeredux <eruditeredux@yahoo.com> wrote:

--- In dqn-list@yahoogroup s.com, Christopher Cole <gruundehn@. ..> wrote:
>
> My sole reason for wishing to add NPC classes is to make it easier
to generate NPCs. For example, shopkeepers will tend to be very
similar and having the "frame" to hang any details on would allow me
to generate a city easier. I could have, say: 12 Rank 5 shopkeepers,
25 Rank 4 shopkeepers, etc. and the only work I'd need to do is
generate the slight differences between them. [snip]

At one time, I would have put the time and effort into something like
this, but as my gaming history has increased, my willingness to put
that much effort into what are in essence role-playing or storytelling
elements can simply be handwaved.

Have you had the need for a Farmer rank 7 or Shopkeeper rank 4? What
benefit do you think you will get by quantifying NPCs for non-conflict
skills?

Thanks, -E

---

Be a better pen pal. Text or chat with friends inside Yahoo! Mail. See how.

> My sole reason for wishing to add NPC classes is to make it easier to

generate

> NPCs. For example, shopkeepers will tend to be very similar and having the
> "frame" to hang any details on would allow me to generate a city easier. I

could

> have, say: 12 Rank 5 shopkeepers, 25 Rank 4 shopkeepers, etc.

While I appreciate detail in an NPC as much as anyone, why would you need to
detail the skills of an NPC?

They are a merchant, they do merchanty things. The only way to detyermin
which skills an NPC has is if the players have DA or other investigative
magics. Unless the NPC is really special most players are not going to
bother investigating.

If ya don't have to tell the players why generate the information?

Not attacking the principle just wondering what the benefits are?

Mandos
/s

--- In dqn-list@yahoogroups.com, "Mandos Mitchinson" <mandos@...>
wrote:

>
> > My sole reason for wishing to add NPC classes is to make it

easier to

> generate
> > NPCs. For example, shopkeepers will tend to be very similar and

having the

> > "frame" to hang any details on would allow me to generate a city

easier. I

> could
> > have, say: 12 Rank 5 shopkeepers, 25 Rank 4 shopkeepers, etc.
>
> While I appreciate detail in an NPC as much as anyone, why would

you need to

> detail the skills of an NPC?
>
> They are a merchant, they do merchanty things. The only way to

detyermin

> which skills an NPC has is if the players have DA or other

investigative

> magics. Unless the NPC is really special most players are not going

to

> bother investigating.
>
> If ya don't have to tell the players why generate the information?
>
> Not attacking the principle just wondering what the benefits are?
>
> Mandos
> /s
>

There are times I presume when the detail will be necessary. Quality
of gear, amount and areas of knowledge, and perhaps more along that
line. If you say Sage Fred knows all about knowledge area X for
example, it is good to know how likely SF knows a specific fact when
you don't care if the characters learn it and don't want to just be
handing out bits of knowledge willy-nilly. Another idea is that with
D&D 3e having the NPC classes, a GM used to that system may feel the
need for the crutch until more familiar with DQ. And the more GMs and
players who start in on DQ the better.

Thought I had just after sending the last reply (don't you just hate when that happens?) is that you might consider the NPC skill packages as a training tool for new and/or inexperienced GMs.

eruditeredux <eruditeredux@yahoo.com> wrote:

--- In dqn-list@yahoogroup s.com, Christopher Cole <gruundehn@. ..> wrote:
>
> My sole reason for wishing to add NPC classes is to make it easier
to generate NPCs. For example, shopkeepers will tend to be very
similar and having the "frame" to hang any details on would allow me
to generate a city easier. I could have, say: 12 Rank 5 shopkeepers,
25 Rank 4 shopkeepers, etc. and the only work I'd need to do is
generate the slight differences between them. [snip]

At one time, I would have put the time and effort into something like
this, but as my gaming history has increased, my willingness to put
that much effort into what are in essence role-playing or storytelling
elements can simply be handwaved.

Have you had the need for a Farmer rank 7 or Shopkeeper rank 4? What
benefit do you think you will get by quantifying NPCs for non-conflict
skills?

Thanks, -E

---

Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

I just received 'The Palace on Ontacle', and I'm impressed with just
flipping through it. Anyone expecting a fleshed out scenario will be
disappointed, but for someone who wants a framework for their own to
personalize will be happy. I'll read more this weekend.

----- Original Message -----

From: eruditeredux

To: dqn-list@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 7:19 PM

Subject: [DQN-list] Two down, one to go...

I just received 'The Palace on Ontacle', and I'm impressed with just
flipping through it. Anyone expecting a fleshed out scenario will be
disappointed, but for someone who wants a framework for their own to
personalize will be happy. I'll read more this weekend.

__________ NOD32 2694 (20071130) Information __________

This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
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