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Group: dqn-list	Message: 253	From: david_chappell@hotmail.com	Date: 5/15/1999
Subject: Re: SOM's and AGONY

Group: dqn-list	Message: 254	From: D. Cameron King	Date: 5/15/1999
Subject: Re: SOM's and AGONY

Group: dqn-list	Message: 255	From: VancrownX@aol.com	Date: 5/15/1999
Subject: Re: AGONY and the Invincible Halfling

Group: dqn-list	Message: 256	From: D. Cameron King	Date: 5/15/1999
Subject: Re: Rewritten Illusion College

Group: dqn-list	Message: 257	From: Todd E. Schreiber	Date: 5/16/1999
Subject: Re: SOM's and AGONY

Group: dqn-list	Message: 258	From: David Mason	Date: 5/17/1999
Subject: Re: SOM's and AGONY

Group: dqn-list	Message: 259	From: David Mason	Date: 5/17/1999
Subject: Re: SOM's and AGONY

Group: dqn-list	Message: 260	From: David Mason	Date: 5/17/1999
Subject: Re: Iron (was SOM's and AGONY)

Group: dqn-list	Message: 261	From: David Mason	Date: 5/17/1999
Subject: Re: Wards (ispired by Rewritten Illusion College)

Group: dqn-list	Message: 262	From: VancrownX@aol.com	Date: 5/17/1999
Subject: Re: SOM's and AGONY

Group: dqn-list	Message: 263	From: Todd E. Schreiber	Date: 5/17/1999
Subject: Re: SOM's and AGONY

Group: dqn-list	Message: 264	From: Dennis Nordling	Date: 5/17/1999
Subject: Re: Iron

Group: dqn-list	Message: 265	From: Todd E. Schreiber	Date: 5/17/1999
Subject: Re: Iron (was SOM's and AGONY)

Group: dqn-list	Message: 266	From: mgallo@intercardinc.com	Date: 5/18/1999
Subject: Re: Sea Battles

Group: dqn-list	Message: 267	From: mgallo@intercardinc.com	Date: 5/18/1999
Subject: Re: Summoning Heros

Group: dqn-list	Message: 268	From: David Mason	Date: 5/19/1999
Subject: new characters

Group: dqn-list	Message: 269	From: David Mason	Date: 5/19/1999
Subject: Re: Iron (was SOM's and AGONY)

Group: dqn-list	Message: 270	From: Jason Winter	Date: 5/19/1999
Subject: Re: Summoning Heros

Group: dqn-list	Message: 271	From: John Carcutt	Date: 5/25/1999
Subject: DQPA Online Membership Database

Group: dqn-list	Message: 272	From: mgallo@intercardinc.com	Date: 5/28/1999
Subject: New Colleges?

Group: dqn-list	Message: 273	From: john.rauchert@sait.ab.ca	Date: 5/28/1999
Subject: Re: New Colleges?

Group: dqn-list	Message: 274	From: John Carcutt	Date: 5/28/1999
Subject: Re: New Colleges?

Group: dqn-list	Message: 275	From: John Carcutt	Date: 5/28/1999
Subject: DQPA Link List Update

Group: dqn-list	Message: 276	From: Jason Winter	Date: 5/28/1999
Subject: My web site question

Group: dqn-list	Message: 277	From: D. Cameron King	Date: 5/28/1999
Subject: Re: New Colleges?

Group: dqn-list	Message: 278	From: Jason Winter	Date: 5/28/1999
Subject: Re: New Colleges?

Group: dqn-list	Message: 279	From: S Cordner	Date: 5/28/1999
Subject: Archive

Group: dqn-list	Message: 280	From: mgallo@intercardinc.com	Date: 5/28/1999
Subject: Re: New Colleges?

Group: dqn-list	Message: 281	From: John Carcutt	Date: 5/28/1999
Subject: Re: My web site question

Group: dqn-list	Message: 282	From: John Carcutt	Date: 5/28/1999
Subject: Re: Archive

Group: dqn-list	Message: 283	From: john.rauchert@sait.ab.ca	Date: 5/28/1999
Subject: Re: My web site question

Group: dqn-list	Message: 284	From: Dennis Nordling	Date: 5/28/1999
Subject: Re: New Colleges?

Group: dqn-list	Message: 285	From: john.rauchert@sait.ab.ca	Date: 5/28/1999
Subject: Re: Archive

Group: dqn-list	Message: 286	From: david_chappell@hotmail.com	Date: 5/28/1999
Subject: Re: New Colleges?

Group: dqn-list	Message: 287	From: RJonesDQ@aol.com	Date: 5/29/1999
Subject: Re: New Colleges?

Group: dqn-list	Message: 288	From: Dennis Nordling	Date: 5/29/1999
Subject: Re: New Colleges?

Group: dqn-list	Message: 289	From: D. Cameron King	Date: 5/29/1999
Subject: Re: New Colleges?

Group: dqn-list	Message: 290	From: RJonesDQ@aol.com	Date: 5/29/1999
Subject: Re: New Colleges?

Group: dqn-list	Message: 291	From: D. Cameron King	Date: 5/29/1999
Subject: Re: New Colleges?

Group: dqn-list	Message: 292	From: David Mason	Date: 5/31/1999
Subject: Re: New Colleges?

Group: dqn-list	Message: 293	From: VancrownX@aol.com	Date: 5/31/1999
Subject: Re: My web site question

Group: dqn-list	Message: 294	From: David Mason	Date: 5/31/1999
Subject: Re: New Colleges?

Group: dqn-list	Message: 295	From: GBerman@aol.com	Date: 5/31/1999
Subject: Playtest supplements

Group: dqn-list	Message: 296	From: Bishop Carlmund	Date: 6/2/1999
Subject: Re: New Colleges?

Group: dqn-list	Message: 297	From: GBerman@aol.com	Date: 6/2/1999
Subject: Dragonquest

Group: dqn-list	Message: 298	From: Todd Coy	Date: 6/3/1999
Subject: Re: New Colleges?

Group: dqn-list	Message: 299	From: Brad Hakala	Date: 6/3/1999
Subject: Re: New Colleges?

Group: dqn-list	Message: 300	From: Jason Winter	Date: 6/9/1999
Subject: Ok, here it goes

Group: dqn-list	Message: 301	From: john.rauchert@sait.ab.ca	Date: 6/10/1999
Subject: DragonQuest books for the taking

Group: dqn-list	Message: 302	From: David Mason	Date: 6/10/1999
Subject: Re: New Colleges?

Group: dqn-list	Message: 253	From: david_chappell@hotmail.com	Date: 5/15/1999
Subject: Re: SOM's and AGONY

<373b7aaf.420e91a-@earthlink.net> wrote:
Original Article: http://www.egroups.com/list/dqn-list/?start=248

> I've been watching this thread, and it occured to me that nobody has brought up Magic Resistance (either
> Passive or Active). Example: it only takes one person (best choice is a non-mage for the best Magic
> Resistance) to Actively Resist (thereby lowering the success chance of the spell by 20%+WP) while the others
> rush the halfling; even if the spell is successful, somebody will probably will Passively Resist and may
> eventually reach the little evil creature. Surprise would of course help greatly, as would ranged combat.
> What I don't remember is what would happen if more than one person Actively Resists.
>

If more than one person actively resists, the highest magic resistance is the one that is subtracted from the cast chance. I am at work so I can't quote you page and paragraph, but that is the way I remember the rule being stated in the magic section.

-David

>

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Group: dqn-list	Message: 254	From: D. Cameron King	Date: 5/15/1999
Subject: Re: SOM's and AGONY

On Fri, 14 May 1999 VancrownX@aol.com wrote:

> Typically, Mustard (our Halfling hero), to his credit, stays away from
> casting his Rank 20 Agony spell, unless the group is in a serious jam . . .

Rank 20 Spell of Agony? *That's* your problem! Spend 73,500 XP
on almost any offensive or area-effect spell and you'll see some
game-unbalancing results. (Let me cast a Rank 16 Spell of Dragon
Flames, and Mustard can use his Rank 20 Spell of Agony; I bet I
win.)

And as for the other members of the group, I throw in with the guy
who pointed out that no sane person would accept being caught in
the spell's area of effect (no matter what kind of advantage it
provides in battle). Especially if they consider themselves as
competent and capable as Mustard obviously is. In my campaign
world, Mustard's companions would let him pull that trick just
once; after that, he'd be lucky if they only kicked him out of
the party.

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Group: dqn-list	Message: 255	From: VancrownX@aol.com	Date: 5/15/1999
Subject: Re: AGONY and the Invincible Halfling

Hmmm, for everyone's knowledge, I murdered the little bastard in close combat
with a Sorcerer of the Mind . . . two endurance shots from a main gauche . .
. however, he was resurrected . . . so I suppose I get to do it again.

M. Andre Vancrown

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Group: dqn-list	Message: 256	From: D. Cameron King	Date: 5/15/1999
Subject: Re: Rewritten Illusion College

On Fri, 14 May 1999 david_chappell@hotmail.com wrote:

> An experienced
> party of adventurers is going to be a little bit suspicious of a dragon that
> makes no noise and doesn't stink to high heaven.

I completely agree with everything you wrote, and wish only
to add a further observation in its support. The size of the
illusion is limited by its Rank. Dragons are 7-hex monsters.
Thus, the caster would need AT LEAST an average Rank of 7 in
the Special Knowledge combination used to create the dragon
(and that is a generous estimate; a dragon is surely more
than seven times the size of a man).

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Group: dqn-list	Message: 257	From: Todd E. Schreiber	Date: 5/16/1999
Subject: Re: SOM's and AGONY

Based on the fact that you always fail to include even a portion of the
message you are responding too, causing us all to try and guess what you're
talking about, I will have to assume that even though you've "designed role
playing games" you do not have the where-with-all to avoid a pointless
discussion.

I recall your original post, in which you asked if other people allowed
Sorcery of the Mind adepts some type of resistance to the Agony spell, and
then went on to complain/belly ache about how a player was wreaking havoc on
your campaign with the Agony spell.

In response to your original post, some people discussed that yes SOM adepts
do get bonuses or are immune, and others said no. Many posts also suggested
ways to counter the player with the Agony spell who wreaking havoc on your
campaign.

So if we all missed the point, what was it? You obviously failed to include
it in any of your posts.

>Specifically, what exactly does this have to do with the Agony spell as
>written? I have been a GM since 1979 for as many as 14 players around the
>table . . . campaigns that have lasted years that were entirely of my own
>construction . . . hell, I have designed role playing games . . . so the
>issue is not one of GM creativity or of making the game interesting for the
>players. I think some of you missed the point of my question entirely . .

>
>M. Andre Vancrown
>
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>
>

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Group: dqn-list	Message: 258	From: David Mason	Date: 5/17/1999
Subject: Re: SOM's and AGONY

>>> "D. Cameron King" <hacking@ucdavis.edu> 15/May/99 11:36:43 am >>>
On Fri, 14 May 1999 VancrownX@aol.com wrote:

> Typically, Mustard (our Halfling hero), to his credit, stays away from
> casting his Rank 20 Agony spell, unless the group is in a serious jam . . .

Rank 20 Spell of Agony? *That's* your problem! Spend 73,500 XP
on almost any offensive or area-effect spell and you'll see some
game-unbalancing results. (Let me cast a Rank 16 Spell of Dragon
Flames, and Mustard can use his Rank 20 Spell of Agony; I bet I
win.)

And as for the other members of the group, I throw in with the guy
who pointed out that no sane person would accept being caught in
the spell's area of effect (no matter what kind of advantage it
provides in battle). Especially if they consider themselves as
competent and capable as Mustard obviously is. In my campaign
world, Mustard's companions would let him pull that trick just
once; after that, he'd be lucky if they only kicked him out of
the party.

- If I were in that party I would have to be very sure of being in a lot of trouble before being glad to have an agony spell go off. As a GM it seems like it could be useful for the party to have an "If all else fails, we'll probably still survive by doing this" spell or tactic. It would give me a free hand to put the party in more challenging situations.

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Group: dqn-list	Message: 259	From: David Mason	Date: 5/17/1999
Subject: Re: SOM's and AGONY

Many of us have interpreted your request as a appeal for help solving the Halfling problem, rather than a straight rules clarification.

Perhaps for future use we should put "Rules clarification" in the messages where that is all we want? (A message from the moderator may serve as answer to this)

>>> <VancrownX@aol.com> 14/May/99 02:01:40 pm >>>

Specifically, what exactly does this have to do with the Agony spell as
written? I have been a GM since 1979 for as many as 14 players around the
table . . . campaigns that have lasted years that were entirely of my own
construction . . . hell, I have designed role playing games . . . so the
issue is not one of GM creativity or of making the game interesting for the
players. I think some of you missed the point of my question entirely . . .

M. Andre Vancrown

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Group: dqn-list	Message: 260	From: David Mason	Date: 5/17/1999
Subject: Re: Iron (was SOM's and AGONY)

>>> "Todd E. Schreiber" <schreib@platinumcrown.com> 14/May/99 11:52:57 am >>>

The rule I use, to counteract an arrow from disallowing magical casting, is
that it takes 1 full pound (16 ounces) of cold iron to interfere with
casting. I assume 1 oz of cold iron per arrow, head. If an adept is not
carrying any other cold iron on his person, it would take 16 arrow heads to
block his casting. Of course, he'd be long dead by then. The 16 oz. limit
also enables any Adept to carry 1 dagger (10 oz), or even a bow and a couple
of arrows. Typically an Adept would be better off using magic if the enemy
is not in melee range, so the bow is not usually an Adept's weapon of
choice.

The 16 oz rule, still keeps mages from using almost all weapons, but at
least they can carry a simple knife. It also allows the typical mage to
take 6 arrows (10 oz. dagger plus 6 1 oz. arrow heads) before losing the
ability to cast, if he's still alive. I believe magic has its own dangers,
with failure and backfire chances, enough so that making them unable to cast
after being hit with 1 arrow to be ridiculous. I devised the 16 oz rule,
immediately after hereing of players using "weak necked barbed arrows" that
would break off after hitting a target, thereby disabling an Adept for an
entire combat. Of course turnabout is fair play, but I thought the general
idea to be ridiculous. We could also get into the combat penalties of using
such an arrow, but decided that this was the easier way to go.

[snip]
Increaseing the Iron allotment sounds like it would change the "flavour" of a campagne a lot. Both making it harder to cripple a mage's magery and harder to recognise a mage by te (almost) trademark non-iron dagger. This isn't nescassarily a bad thing, I'm just curious to find out if I'm right.

The weak necked arrows are still a menice for medical treament, and if you don't remove them infection is almost sure to set in...

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Group: dqn-list	Message: 261	From: David Mason	Date: 5/17/1999
Subject: Re: Wards (ispired by Rewritten Illusion College)

>>> S Cordner <scordner@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca> 14/May/99 03:52:54 am >>>

> Just as a devil's advocate, I'd like to say that I expressly permit these
> spells to be placed in a ward.

> - How do you handle control spells in this situation?

I make the controlling aspect of the spell pre-determined, and in a specific
manner. Something on the lines of, "you feel compelled to go to the nearby
pool and jump in". I definitely wouldn't let the instructions of a control
spell in a ward be determined at the time of the ward's activation.

> It avoids a players sense that no matter what happens, they've read the magic

section, and so they assume that the result of any magical event can be easily
codified.

> - find a useful part to this is the invention of new spells. Whats in the

book are the "standards" that everyone knows about. Other spells are only
known by specific groups (cults, families, students of a particular teacher
etc)

Yeah, there's no denying how important it is to generate magical effects
that are beyond the scope of player familiarity. I especially like it when
the players get flustered and say things like, "That's impossible! No spell
can do that!" They need that pulling the rug out from underneath them every
once in a while, just to keep things from being too rote. Keeps 'em coming
back for more.

- also, given PCs who have invented the odd spell themselves, and used them to good effect, eventualy someone is going to copy them. Hoist with their own petard.

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Group: dqn-list	Message: 262	From: VancrownX@aol.com	Date: 5/17/1999
Subject: Re: SOM's and AGONY

The point is my question was specifically about the Agony spell . . . many of
the reply posts addressed other issues . . . some were even a tad insulting.
Feel free to ignore my posts in future if you insist on being juvenile . . .
and insulting yourself.

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Group: dqn-list	Message: 263	From: Todd E. Schreiber	Date: 5/17/1999
Subject: Re: SOM's and AGONY

I'm assuming you're responding to me? Yes? No? Oh well, we'll never know
what you really wanted.

-----Original Message-----
From: VancrownX@aol.com <VancrownX@aol.com>
To: dqn-list@egroups.com <dqn-list@egroups.com>
Date: Monday, May 17, 1999 8:18 PM
Subject: [DQN-list] Re: SOM's and AGONY

>The point is my question was specifically about the Agony spell . . . many

>the reply posts addressed other issues . . . some were even a tad

insulting.

>Feel free to ignore my posts in future if you insist on being juvenile . .

>and insulting yourself.
>
>
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>
>
>
>

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Group: dqn-list	Message: 264	From: Dennis Nordling	Date: 5/17/1999
Subject: Re: Iron

The group I play with uses the following guidelines for mages directly
casting magics. For simplicity we place the weight of arrowheads as
one once. This has worked for us; but most of that is because we as
a group agreed to this as a basic rule.

Max Subtraction Scaled Subtraction
Cold Iron 100% 10% per one once (maximum 10 onces)
Silver 10% 1% per one once (maximum 10 onces)
Gold 5% 1% per two onces (maximum 10 onces)
True Siver 0 none

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Group: dqn-list	Message: 265	From: Todd E. Schreiber	Date: 5/17/1999
Subject: Re: Iron (was SOM's and AGONY)

>Increaseing the Iron allotment sounds like it would change the "flavour" of

a campagne a lot. Both making it harder to cripple a mage's magery and
harder to recognise a mage by te (almost) trademark non-iron dagger. This
isn't nescassarily a bad thing, I'm just curious to find out if I'm right.

>
>The weak necked arrows are still a menice for medical treament, and if you

Group: dqn-list	Message: 266	From: mgallo@intercardinc.com	Date: 5/18/1999
Subject: Re: Sea Battles

I have not clawed my way through all the messages here yet, but I always just assumed that sailing ships were not really needed since there was such easy access to water elementals and controlled animals. Heck, just yoke up a couple of whales, and sail onwards. In one adventure I was running, one of the players had a life long goal to summon a water elemental and use it to surf accross a local lake!

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Group: dqn-list	Message: 267	From: mgallo@intercardinc.com	Date: 5/18/1999
Subject: Re: Summoning Heros

Not that this is really relevant, but I used to give the party a 1% chance every adventure of having one of the PCs be summoned away during a battle! It never happened, but I will always treasure the look on the player's faces when somebody read that spell description and wondered out loud where the heroes actually came from - I, of course, just grinned. Man, did that group get nervous. Heh heh.

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Group: dqn-list	Message: 268	From: David Mason	Date: 5/19/1999
Subject: new characters

As I mentioned earlier, "Summon Hero" on a scroll or similar when the party is in need is a "quick and dirty" way to insert a new PC mid adventure. The party will accept an adventurer they have sumoned themselves. This assumes a fairly powerful party where a hero level character (or at least someone from the local legend that the PC from furthest from th main setting) will fit. I would encourige use of local legends from far away because there will be les complications with everybody knowing about the character. On the other hand, playing a figur out of legend could add a wholenew dimension to the story line. (Especialy if there are long-lived enemies still floating round).

The most recent addition to my DQ campaign is playing the child of one of the PCs. She has grown up very quickly due to being a shapeshifter who spent much of her time in animal form. (Plot device) This is working well since she is an inexperianced gamer who is't used to the way characters played by experianced gamers (adults) behave in crisies. Other family members can be handled similarly. Uncle Watsisname, back from foreign parts can have just the skills and level of experiance the gm wants, while the younger sibling makes a handy neophyte.

NPCs important to and trusted by the party can suddenly devlope a spirit of adventure. I have played the retired adventurer-barkeep who decides to help-out when one of my players ran an adventure. A rescued "princess" ran away from home to join one party which provided a great deal of entertainment as she demanded a tent to herself (and so on). As thing went on of course, she adapted to the lifstyle and became a more conventional character

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Group: dqn-list	Message: 269	From: David Mason	Date: 5/19/1999
Subject: Re: Iron (was SOM's and AGONY)

>Increaseing the Iron allotment sounds like it would change the "flavour" of

>
>The weak necked arrows are still a menice for medical treament, and if you

don't remove >them infection is almost sure to set in...

It would only affect a campaign that was underway, not a new campaign. I
would never reccomend making a change like this in the middle of a campaign.
As for the trademark non Iron dagger, I believe that an adventurer without a
sword or other large weapon is much more obvious than the material a
sheathed dagger is made of.

The trick is to sort mages without large weapons from non-adventurers.
In some of the setting used, people use their dagger as an eating utensil.

As far as weak necked arrows, I hope you make an adjustment for their
ability to penetrate the metal armors, chain and better, as the shaft might
just snap before the head penetrates. Also there would be no recovery of
these arrows, unless fired into a soft material. My characters usually walk
around with silver arrows anyway, in case we run into creatures requiring
such weapons to damage.

Very sensible. The weak necked arrows strike me as the sort of thing Hobgoblins would be very "in" to, Mage or no mage
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Group: dqn-list	Message: 270	From: Jason Winter	Date: 5/19/1999
Subject: Re: Summoning Heros

At 06:38 PM 5/18/99 -0000, you wrote:

>Not that this is really relevant, but I used to give the party a 1% chance

every adventure of having one of the PCs be summoned away during a battle!
It never happened, but I will always treasure the look on the player's
faces when somebody read that spell description and wondered out loud where
the heroes actually came from - I, of course, just grinned. Man, did that
group get nervous. Heh heh.

>

Reminds me of a group one of my good friends played in before we met. The
GM had a 1% chance per day that the sun was going to go supernova. He
played all of one session then found a new group to play with :-)

Jason Winter
Alarian@uswest.net
http://www.darkrealms.com/~alarian/

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Group: dqn-list	Message: 271	From: John Carcutt	Date: 5/25/1999
Subject: DQPA Online Membership Database

Hi everyone,

Just a quick note. For the past week or so the Online Membership Database at the DQPA site has been giving errors when you try and access it. I have only been able to get to it this morning and after a day of banging my head against the wall I am happy to say it is fixed.

http://www.carcutt.com/dqpa

Sorry if this has caused anyone any inconvenience.

John(2) aka:Ax'l

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Group: dqn-list	Message: 272	From: mgallo@intercardinc.com	Date: 5/28/1999
Subject: New Colleges?

Somewhen in time, one of the published modules had some new colleges of magic. I think one of them was Rune magics. Does anybody remember which module that was or what colleges were covered? Does anybody have a copy for sale?

If nothing else, maybe we can kep this lista alive - sure has been quiet since I joined.

Marty

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Group: dqn-list	Message: 273	From: john.rauchert@sait.ab.ca	Date: 5/28/1999
Subject: Re: New Colleges?

<7im19g$91o-@egroups.com> wrote:
Original Article: http://www.egroups.com/group/dqn-list/?start=272

> Somewhen in time, one of the published modules had some new colleges of magic. I think one of them was Rune magics. Does anybody remember which module that was or what colleges were covered? Does anybody have a copy for sale?

The module you are looking for is:

DQ1: The Shattered Statue
by Paul Jaquays
(TSR, Inc.) 1988. Booklet; TSR #9221

A dual DragonQuest/AD&D module by Paul Jaquays which has as its major claim to fame unedited versions of The College of Rune Magics and The College of Shaping Magics taken from the original unpublished (and near mythical) Arcane Wisdom supplement.

John F. Rauchert
Co-Moderator DQN-list

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Group: dqn-list	Message: 274	From: John Carcutt	Date: 5/28/1999
Subject: Re: New Colleges?

I have seen this module for sale on ebay a couple of times. If they don't currently have it, check out the link list at the DQPA site and try one of the DQ vendors listed. You might get lucky.

http://www.carcutt.com/dqpa

John(2) aka:Ax'l

john.rauchert@sait.ab.ca wrote:

> <7im19g$91o-@egroups.com> wrote:
> Original Article: http://www.egroups.com/group/dqn-list/?start=272
> > Somewhen in time, one of the published modules had some new colleges of magic. I think one of them was Rune magics. Does anybody remember which module that was or what colleges were covered? Does anybody have a copy for sale?
>
> The module you are looking for is:
>
> DQ1: The Shattered Statue
> by Paul Jaquays
> (TSR, Inc.) 1988. Booklet; TSR #9221
>
> A dual DragonQuest/AD&D module by Paul Jaquays which has as its major claim to fame unedited versions of The College of Rune Magics and The College of Shaping Magics taken from the original unpublished (and near mythical) Arcane Wisdom supplement.
>
> John F. Rauchert
> Co-Moderator DQN-list
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/dqn-list
> http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

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Group: dqn-list	Message: 275	From: John Carcutt	Date: 5/28/1999
Subject: DQPA Link List Update

Hey Everyone,

Time again for the somewhat regular DQPA Link List update.

Total Links: 63
Added New Link: 7
Link Deleted: 2
Link Changed Category: 1
New Category: 0
Deleted Category: 0

http://www.carcutt.com/dqpa

John(2) aka:Ax'l

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Group: dqn-list	Message: 276	From: Jason Winter	Date: 5/28/1999
Subject: My web site question

I have been struggling with this for a while, and have decided I would put
my question up here and get others opinions on the matter.

I have a VERY extensive web site up currently devoted to DQ (more extensive
than any other web site I have seen on DQ). It is currenly only reachable
by the players in my campaign, and I would like to make it available to
others to enjoy, but the problem is there is a LOT of information on the
site that I have gotten from other sources. For starters I have a
completed Cleric class with pretty much every Clerical spell that TSR has
ever created. Rules for creating Mage focus's that have a lot of info from
C&S, A complete skills system with tons of info taken from Rolemaster.
Psionicists bases on a Role Aids prduct (I think), etc. Pretty much
anything thats in the DQ books, are on my site in one form or another
(other than monsters). I will say out front that my system has been
modified quite a bit from straight DQ so all things arn't totally
compatable if your playing a pure DQ game, but most of it follows very
closely what I feel is the heart of DQ. A good example are my classes.
Take fighter for instance, there is a LOT more to being a fighter than just
swinging a sword. They have all kinds of special abilities as well as
additional abilities if they concentrate on just being a fighter and don't
pick up other professions, etc.

Anyway, my question is, do you think I should make my site available to
other DQ players, or am I setting myself up for trouble by doing it.
Jason Winter
Alarian@uswest.net
http://www.darkrealms.com/~alarian/

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Group: dqn-list	Message: 277	From: D. Cameron King	Date: 5/28/1999
Subject: Re: New Colleges?

On Fri, 28 May 1999 john.rauchert@sait.ab.ca wrote:

> A dual DragonQuest/AD&D module by Paul Jaquays which has as its major claim to fame unedited versions of The College of Rune Magics and The College of Shaping Magics taken from the original unpublished (and near mythical) Arcane Wisdom supplement.

Does anyone know if the Shattered Statue versions of these
Colleges are any different from the unedited Arcane Wisdom
materials made available in electronic format by Philip
Proefrock (former editor of the DQ Newsletter)?

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Group: dqn-list	Message: 278	From: Jason Winter	Date: 5/28/1999
Subject: Re: New Colleges?

I actually just bought this module from Titan games about 2 weeks ago.
I've been a big DQ fan since 2nd edition first appeared and I was amazed
that I had never heard of it before a few weeks ago. Haven't really had a
chance to look it over yet, but it does have the two new colleges of Rune
and shaping magics in them.

On another note. Does anyone allow their players to be Shapers? I had a
player that played one a while back in my campaign, and my god, there were
minor magic items all over the place. He never made anything powerful
enough that it actually cost him endurance to make, but my god you can make
a lot of piddily stuff. I eventually had to take him to the side and ask
him to roll up another character as it was getting out of control. He
actually agreed with me and was happy to create a new character. I know it
takes time to make stuff, but in my campaign, I really let players have
almost total control in what they do (I.e. I don't force them to save the
world, go on long drawn out quests they they are forced to complete if they
ever want to get home, etc). There is the occasional thing that comes up
that requires their attention, i.e. the ruler of the region they live in
requests a favor that they really cant refuse, but other than that, they
pretty much choose what they want to do. I always have a a dozen ideas
ready to go that I throw hints out about as they play, so they can choose
for themselves what they want to go do. They all really like it a lot, and
all have said they prefer it over the more traditional forced adventures
type of campaign, but the big drawback is that if one of the players, like
the shaper, decides they want to take a year or two off, usually no one has
any problems with this. So they all go do thier own thing for a few years
until everyone is ready and then go off adventuring again. A PC Shaper
with time on their hands is a dangerous thing!

Anyway. I seem to have rambled on quite a bit here, so I'll let it go at
that.

>Somewhen in time, one of the published modules had some new colleges of

magic. I think one of them was Rune magics. Does anybody remember which
module that was or what colleges were covered? Does anybody have a copy for
sale?

>
>If nothing else, maybe we can kep this lista alive - sure has been quiet

since I joined.

>
>Marty
>

----System Information
Platform: Windows 95 v. 4.10
Machine Type: Intel
System Version: 4.10
Processor: 586
Physical RAM Installed: 130552 Kb
Virtual RAM: 2093056 Kb
Eudora Pro: Version 3.0.5 (32)
Winsock: Microsoft wsock32.dll, ver2.2, 32bit of Apr 21 1999, at 02:13:38.

Jason Winter
Alarian@uswest.net
http://www.darkrealms.com/~alarian/

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Group: dqn-list	Message: 279	From: S Cordner	Date: 5/28/1999
Subject: Archive

> Somewhen in time, one of the published modules had some new colleges of

magic. I think one of them was Rune magics. Does anybody remember which
module that was or what colleges were covered? Does anybody have a copy for
sale?

I have a copy of Arcane Wisdom in text format; I'm sure that there are
several others as well.

Does anyone have a comprehensive DQ archive that's web-accessible? I
believe that the netcom site is gone, and that we should probably be
looking into a replacement that would let us all post our house rules (and
Arcane Wisdom!) etc. to one site so that anyone could access them at will.

Any takers?

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Group: dqn-list	Message: 280	From: mgallo@intercardinc.com	Date: 5/28/1999
Subject: Re: New Colleges?

Thanks,

Now to find a copy...

Marty

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Group: dqn-list	Message: 281	From: John Carcutt	Date: 5/28/1999
Subject: Re: My web site question

Hi Jason,

You dropped a serious bomb here. A question like this is not easily answered
as you know.

My opinion is based on my own actions. I am building an Online DQ GM screen
with tables and formulas taken directly form the copyrighted DragonQuest
books. My dilemma was similar to yours, "What kind of trouble am I opening
myself up for?" Three things made me decide that I would go ahead and put it
online.

1. TSR/WoTC's policy towards online fan sites is that pretty much anything is
OK as long as you are not making a profit from it.
2. I included a statement at the bottom of my frameset that indicated the
copyright ownership and free use intentions of the pages.
3. The worst thing that would probably happen if they decided they didn't what
me to publish my Online GM Screen would that they would ask me to take it
down, and I would.

Ultimately you have to make your own decision, but I say go for it and if they
don't like it, go back to what you were doing and say "Oh Well, I tried".

John(2) aka: Ax'l

Jason Winter wrote:

> I have been struggling with this for a while, and have decided I would put
> my question up here and get others opinions on the matter.
>
> I have a VERY extensive web site up currently devoted to DQ (more extensive
> than any other web site I have seen on DQ). It is currenly only reachable
> by the players in my campaign, and I would like to make it available to
> others to enjoy, but the problem is there is a LOT of information on the
> site that I have gotten from other sources.

...clip...

> Anyway, my question is, do you think I should make my site available to
> other DQ players, or am I setting myself up for trouble by doing it. Jason
> Winter

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Group: dqn-list	Message: 282	From: John Carcutt	Date: 5/28/1999
Subject: Re: Archive

As some of you may know, the DragonQuest Webmasters Guild (DQWG) as begun
operation under the DQPA. One of the original reasons for creating the guild
was to produce just such and archive and even more, produce a one stop index
that links DragonQuest resources from across the entire web. A Dragonquest
Yahoo if you will.

There are still a few details to be worked out, such as identifying copyright
rules and how they would apply, and some discussion has been made about the
pros and cons of recommending guidelines for DQ supplement creation. Not rules
per say, but guidelines to help make your supplements understandable by all.

I agree that a replacement for the netcom site is needed and hopefully, the
DQWG can come to the rescue.

John(2) aka:Ax'l

S Cordner wrote:

> Does anyone have a comprehensive DQ archive that's web-accessible? I
> believe that the netcom site is gone, and that we should probably be
> looking into a replacement that would let us all post our house rules (and
> Arcane Wisdom!) etc. to one site so that anyone could access them at will.
>
> Any takers?

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Group: dqn-list	Message: 283	From: john.rauchert@sait.ab.ca	Date: 5/28/1999
Subject: Re: My web site question

<374f02e7.f25f82e-@wright.edu> wrote:
Original Article: http://www.egroups.com/group/dqn-list/?start=281

> Hi Jason,
>
> You dropped a serious bomb here. A question like this is not easily answered
> as you know.
>
> My opinion is based on my own actions. I am building an Online DQ GM screen
> with tables and formulas taken directly form the copyrighted DragonQuest
> books. My dilemma was similar to yours, "What kind of trouble am I opening
> myself up for?" Three things made me decide that I would go ahead and put it
> online.
>
> 1. TSR/WoTC's policy towards online fan sites is that pretty much anything is
> OK as long as you are not making a profit from it.

[clip]

For TSR policy on distributing fan material on the Internet refer to:

http://www.wizards.com/Corporate_Info/TSR_Online_Policy.html

John F. Rauchert
Co-moderator DQN-list

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Group: dqn-list	Message: 284	From: Dennis Nordling	Date: 5/28/1999
Subject: Re: New Colleges?

Yes, our group allows Shapers, but only one player has invested the time
(about 4 real years of game play) to get to the point of being able to make
items other than Invested Items.

Consider the SP cost of a Shaping Lab, the amount of Time & EP
expended in upgrading the large number of Preparation and Binding Rituals,
the Time & SP cost expended during the creation process, and the difficulty
of finding mages and skilled craftsman willing to participate in a ritual for a

extended period of time, which will ultimately allow their ability to
duplicated
and used by just anyone. This causes at Shapers to limit what they can
produce (a maximum of 6 enchanted items per year) and at great expense
(Shaper Labs are very expensive, as are skilled professionals).

The great dangers in the Shaping College over-ballancing the game are in:

Ritual of Binding Investments (47 R-6 [DQ 3rd, page 71]), which allows
for deadly spells to be placed into what amounts to a machine gun with an
endless clip (our group disallows this to be used with anything other than
TOTALLY non-offensive spells)

Ritual of Shaping Rag and String Golems (47 Q-1 [DQ 3rd, page 67]),
which can be used to create a skilled work force and manufacture items
at a labor free cost (our group modified the creation process to require
a Ruby of not less than 10 TrueSilver to be placed within these golems
which functions as their hearts; this would naturally cause thieves to hunt

these Golems as a source of money).

Contain Monster (47 R-7 [DQ 3rd, page 71]), which can cause great
havoc if the GM is not careful and allows either the wrong creature or to
much control over any creature to be exercised (this is not something
our group has yet had to face).

Investments have always been a potential problem and the Shaping helped
reduce this problem in that a mage must have a Shaper aid in the creation
of Invested Items. Prior to this any mage could the evening before take
whatever Spell would best suit the situation and spread it around the group
prior to the attack. At least now such things must be prepared in advance
of the game or the party must have access to a Shaper. Also, prior to Shaper
the Rules did not allow for Detecting of Magic.

Jason Winter wrote:

> I actually just bought this module from Titan games about 2 weeks ago.
> I've been a big DQ fan since 2nd edition first appeared and I was amazed
> that I had never heard of it before a few weeks ago. Haven't really had a
> chance to look it over yet, but it does have the two new colleges of Rune
> and shaping magics in them.
>
> On another note. Does anyone allow their players to be Shapers? I had a
> player that played one a while back in my campaign, and my god, there were
> minor magic items all over the place. He never made anything powerful
> enough that it actually cost him endurance to make, but my god you can make
> a lot of piddily stuff. I eventually had to take him to the side and ask
> him to roll up another character as it was getting out of control. He
> actually agreed with me and was happy to create a new character. I know it
> takes time to make stuff, but in my campaign, I really let players have
> almost total control in what they do (I.e. I don't force them to save the
> world, go on long drawn out quests they they are forced to complete if they
> ever want to get home, etc). There is the occasional thing that comes up
> that requires their attention, i.e. the ruler of the region they live in
> requests a favor that they really cant refuse, but other than that, they
> pretty much choose what they want to do. I always have a a dozen ideas
> ready to go that I throw hints out about as they play, so they can choose
> for themselves what they want to go do. They all really like it a lot, and
> all have said they prefer it over the more traditional forced adventures
> type of campaign, but the big drawback is that if one of the players, like
> the shaper, decides they want to take a year or two off, usually no one has
> any problems with this. So they all go do thier own thing for a few years
> until everyone is ready and then go off adventuring again. A PC Shaper
> with time on their hands is a dangerous thing!
>
> Anyway. I seem to have rambled on quite a bit here, so I'll let it go at
> that.
>
> >Somewhen in time, one of the published modules had some new colleges of
> magic. I think one of them was Rune magics. Does anybody remember which
> module that was or what colleges were covered? Does anybody have a copy for
> sale?
> >
> >If nothing else, maybe we can kep this lista alive - sure has been quiet
> since I joined.
> >
> >Marty
> >
>
> ----System Information
> Platform: Windows 95 v. 4.10
> Machine Type: Intel
> System Version: 4.10
> Processor: 586
> Physical RAM Installed: 130552 Kb
> Virtual RAM: 2093056 Kb
> Eudora Pro: Version 3.0.5 (32)
> Winsock: Microsoft wsock32.dll, ver2.2, 32bit of Apr 21 1999, at 02:13:38.
>
> Jason Winter
> Alarian@uswest.net
> http://www.darkrealms.com/~alarian/
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/dqn-list
> http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

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Group: dqn-list	Message: 285	From: john.rauchert@sait.ab.ca	Date: 5/28/1999
Subject: Re: Archive

<374efeb9.6b18a95-@wright.edu> wrote:
Original Article: http://www.egroups.com/group/dqn-list/?start=282

> As some of you may know, the DragonQuest Webmasters Guild (DQWG) as begun
> operation under the DQPA. One of the original reasons for creating the guild
> was to produce just such and archive and even more, produce a one stop index
> that links DragonQuest resources from across the entire web. A Dragonquest
> Yahoo if you will.
>
> There are still a few details to be worked out, such as identifying copyright
> rules and how they would apply, and some discussion has been made about the
> pros and cons of recommending guidelines for DQ supplement creation. Not rules
> per say, but guidelines to help make your supplements understandable by all.
>
> I agree that a replacement for the netcom site is needed and hopefully, the
> DQWG can come to the rescue.
>
> John(2) aka:Ax'l
>

Speaking as the official spokesperson for the DragonQuest Players Association:

The Association would, could, and should not promote material that it believes to be a clear violation of existing Copyright Law or Trademark Law. That being said, we would argue for material that we believe to be covered under Fair Use aspects of Copyright Law or where implied (if not explicit) permission has been given for the distribution of such material.

Talk to date has been to have a number of mirrored sites for the same information, so that one site dropping out of existence does not cripple us from retrieving the archived information.

John F. Rauchert, Acting President
DragonQuest Players Association

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Group: dqn-list	Message: 286	From: david_chappell@hotmail.com	Date: 5/28/1999
Subject: Re: New Colleges?

[snip]

> of the game or the party must have access to a Shaper. Also, prior to Shaper
> the Rules did not allow for Detecting of Magic.

Actually, the infravision talent from the college of fire magics allows an adept to tell if an object is magical.

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Group: dqn-list	Message: 287	From: RJonesDQ@aol.com	Date: 5/29/1999
Subject: Re: New Colleges?

We've tried to handle the detect magic in two ways.
We tried creating a general T-0 Sense Mana talent for all colleges. This
ended up
being disabled, since almost all of our adventurers insist upon Earth Magics
Lesser
Enchantments, so all they sense is the magic upon themselves. We may try to
further refine this talent.
Our first, and most successful attempt has been to add the viewing of magic
dwoemer to the Witchsight Talent. That talent seemed rather expensive for
its
limited applications under its original description. Some of the limitations
arising
from this modification are the blindness resulting from attempting Witchsight
in a high mana area, and frustration when the site of adventuring is under
the effect of the Ritual of Preservation (our creation R-1 for E&E) -
"Everything glows!" Something we were forced to do, when we rewrote the
Shadow Magics college (now an Entities college), and created a complete
Branch of Celestial Magics (Sun, Moon, Starlight, Stardark), was to change
the Witchsight spell into an Elfsight spell, basically giving the recipient
the equivalent of the Elven racial talent at the rank of the spell, or adding
that rank to his existing talent. We just couldn't accept someone walking
around the "dungeon" for hours, automatically seeing every magic glow.

Russ Jones
rjonesdq@aol.com
members.aol.com/rjonesdq/dqrules

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Group: dqn-list	Message: 288	From: Dennis Nordling	Date: 5/29/1999
Subject: Re: New Colleges?

[counter snip]
Actually, the talent Infravision (T-1) begins with,

"The Adept can identify the class of a heat source that is within his range
of vision. Whenever the Adept attempts to make and identification of this
type his player rolls D100."

I believe the line to which you are refering to reads,

"In the event that the heat source is identified, the GM must tell the Adept's
player the species of the heat source (if an entity), its general nature (if a
physical object), and if it is magical or not."

By my reading of the talent the only thing this can identify are heat sources.
While it will show if a heat source is magical in nature. It would not show if
anything is under the effects of a spell (unless the spell produces heat), or
unless you are considering everthing above absolute zero as a heat source.

A more likely candidate for pre-shaping college Detect Enchantment would
be the Namers Detect Aura (T-1). The problem with this is it does not work
with never living matter. The way the detection would be applied is by using
the question, "Is this ______ currently under the effects of magic?"

david_chappell@hotmail.com wrote:

> [snip]
>
> > of the game or the party must have access to a Shaper. Also, prior to Shaper
> > the Rules did not allow for Detecting of Magic.
>
> Actually, the infravision talent from the college of fire magics allows an adept to tell if an object is magical.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
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Group: dqn-list	Message: 289	From: D. Cameron King	Date: 5/29/1999
Subject: Re: New Colleges?

On Fri, 28 May 1999, Jason Winter wrote:

> On another note. Does anyone allow their players to be Shapers?

Sure, but no one has yet taken me up on the offer. As Dennis
Nordling already pointed out, the costs of manufacturing magic
items are substantial. 'Nuff said.

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Group: dqn-list	Message: 290	From: RJonesDQ@aol.com	Date: 5/29/1999
Subject: Re: New Colleges?

Probably the best way to keep things moving is to keep a calendar and watch
character's ages. I have one of the most advanced characters in our group,
an
experienced Master Adventurer (We renamed the Hero classification, because
hero
is a title of acclamation, not advancement). He is running into the problem,
now, of
getting up in age (late 30's). He is taking advantage of Healer's prolong
life ability,
but has to be wary of the cost to resurrection chances should he encounter
disaster.
Every time he finishes a long mission, he winces over the amount of time it's
going
to take him to do his training. He's also married, with two children, and
desires to
spend time with his family.

This doesn't help if the party is only longlived races, but if you have
humans, halflings, orcs or shapechangers, they will have to face up to the
same decisions.

Russ Jones
rjonesdq@aol.com
members.aol.com/rjonesdq/dqrules

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Group: dqn-list	Message: 291	From: D. Cameron King	Date: 5/29/1999
Subject: Re: New Colleges?

On Sat, 29 May 1999 david_chappell@hotmail.com wrote:

> > Also, prior to Shaper
> > the Rules did not allow for Detecting of Magic.
>
> Actually, the infravision talent from the college of fire magics allows an adept to tell if an object is magical.

Only if the object is a "heat source." Great for detecting those
magical torches and campfires, but not too helpful with magical
swords or suits of armor.

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Group: dqn-list	Message: 292	From: David Mason	Date: 5/31/1999
Subject: Re: New Colleges?

The other troubling thing about shapers is the number of Golems they can produce, quickly cluttering up any traps and ambushes set and making combats an encounter between an army of golems and whatever you put there.

>>> Jason Winter <Alarian@uswest.net> 29/May/99 04:50:19 am >>>

>Somewhen in time, one of the published modules had some new colleges of

magic. I think one of them was Rune magics. Does anybody remember which
module that was or what colleges were covered? Does anybody have a copy for
sale?

>
>If nothing else, maybe we can kep this lista alive - sure has been quiet

since I joined.

>
>Marty
>

Group: dqn-list	Message: 293	From: VancrownX@aol.com	Date: 5/31/1999
Subject: Re: My web site question

RE:
I have been struggling with this for a while, and have decided I would put
my question up here and get others opinions on the matter.

I have a VERY extensive web site up currently devoted to DQ (more extensive
than any other web site I have seen on DQ). It is currently only reachable
by the players in my campaign, and I would like to make it available to
others to enjoy, but the problem is there is a LOT of information on the
site that I have gotten from other sources. For starters I have a
completed Cleric class with pretty much every Clerical spell that TSR has
ever created. Rules for creating Mage focus's that have a lot of info from
C&S, A complete skills system with tons of info taken from Rolemaster.
Psionicists bases on a Role Aids prduct (I think), etc. Pretty much
anything thats in the DQ books, are on my site in one form or another
(other than monsters). I will say out front that my system has been
modified quite a bit from straight DQ so all things arn't totally
compatable if your playing a pure DQ game, but most of it follows very
closely what I feel is the heart of DQ. A good example are my classes.
Take fighter for instance, there is a LOT more to being a fighter than just
swinging a sword. They have all kinds of special abilities as well as
additional abilities if they concentrate on just being a fighter and don't
pick up other professions, etc.

Anyway, my question is, do you think I should make my site available to
other DQ players, or am I setting myself up for trouble by doing it.
Jason Winter
Alarian@uswest.net
http://www.darkrealms.com/~alarian/

Jason:

I think it would be a great idea . . . and if WOTC or TSR lets you know you
are infringing upon their proprietary works . . . the most they will do is
order you to cease and desist. I think it doubtful that this would happen,
given that ICE is dead, TSR is owned by WOTC, and neither group seems to care
whatsoever about reviving DQ. I have written to them several times, and have
received no reply. Also, there have been others here who have tried the same
thing, and have either been frustrated or blown off . . . or I believe one
group of lawyers from the East Coast put together a bid to by DQ and were
flat out told it was not for sale, at any price. Others in the egroup may
have more for you on this, but I spent three years designing a role playing
game that took DQ's tactical system to a new level . . . but after talking to
Bob Bigalo (who used to work for Dragon Magazine, doing figurine reviews, and
who is a personal friend of Gary Gygax) and others, I realized how fruitless
the efforts are . . . WOTC would not even reply to a request made for
submission guidelines! Anyway, I have watched the group closely, and
followed the DQN for some time, have met Roger Thorn, whom I would like to
call a friend, though we have both been so busy of late to really stay in
contact as much as we should be . . . and spent three years designing a
role-playing game that I have adapted portions of for DQ, namely Master
Knowledge . . . for both spells and weapons . . . as well as new tactical
rules for horsemanship and resolved some combat ambiguities . . . along with
many, many other things that have taken DQ and corrected several imbalances
within the game itself, gone beyond what was originally designed, and have
stayed true to its original format and verbiage, all of which I have not
offered to the group at large . . . because I am working on either an
expansion that will be offered or a corrected Bootleg 4th Edition of DQ. I
have made every attempt to work this out with WOTC, and they chose to ignore
my requests . . . or at best give vague answers, and to be honest, I say to
hell with them . . . I will do it anyway . . . the Internet is here for free
exchange of ideas, and ideas cannot be copyrighted, and so long as the game
is 20% different from the any other in existence . . . well, I know the rules
of the game, and I will say this much . . . DQ will be revived, if not by
WOTC, and TSR, then by those of us who recognize its tactical superiority,
devotees to a game the twins at TSR bought to stamp out . . .
I have seen many offerings here . . . you must follow your own heart, and do
what you feel is best . . . to share or not to share, that is the question.

M. Andre Vancrown

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Group: dqn-list	Message: 294	From: David Mason	Date: 5/31/1999
Subject: Re: New Colleges?

The Collage of Rune magic is included in 3rd ed.

>>> <mgallo@intercardinc.com> 28/May/99 10:13:36 pm >>>

Group: dqn-list	Message: 295	From: GBerman@aol.com	Date: 5/31/1999
Subject: Playtest supplements

Hi All,
My HD crashed and I lost my copy of Arcane Wisdom. Would someone please send
me a text version of it, thanks.

Also, I was wondering if there were any more playtest drafts of DQ
supplements that never made it to print, like the advanced monsters book or
advanced skills or anything else :)

thanks for your response
--Geoff Berman

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Group: dqn-list	Message: 296	From: Bishop Carlmund	Date: 6/2/1999
Subject: Re: New Colleges?

Hi everyone,
One thing I did with the Rag and String Golems was to make them tied to the Shapers 'Life Force'. When a Rag and String Golem was killed the Shaper lost permantly the 3 endurance as well. Endurance is rather
expensive in Experience Points to keep buying back. This certainly limited the Rag & String Golems our Shaper wanted to make as well as making him very cautious with how he used them!
I also toyed with the idea of a Shaper needing an item with Military Scientist Skill imbedded to control large numbers of Golems. I really never persued this idea though.
Also the best way to knock a Iron Golem out is with the Shaper's Mudslick Spell. I also ruled a Namer had to do a Counterspell RITUAL to make a Golem deactivate as opposed to a simple Counter Spell. I didn't want our
Shaper to feel the whole world was against him!
Keep the DQ Flame alive,
Andrew.

Captain Andrew D. Carter C.A. Dip.Ev. Church Army (Anglican/Episcopalian).
a.k.a. Lord Carlmund from Quellburn, First Bishop of Quellbourne.
"HOLY ORDER of the WHITE and BLACK DICE"
Incorporating "DQuell Productions" and "RMirk Productions".
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Castle/7044/
Our World cries out :0(
WILL THE REAL GOD PLEASE STAND UP!!!!!!!

David Mason wrote:

> The other troubling thing about shapers is the number of Golems they can produce, quickly cluttering up any traps and ambushes set and making combats an encounter between an army of golems and whatever you put there.
>
> >>> Jason Winter <Alarian@uswest.net> 29/May/99 04:50:19 am >>>
> I actually just bought this module from Titan games about 2 weeks ago.
> I've been a big DQ fan since 2nd edition first appeared and I was amazed
> that I had never heard of it before a few weeks ago. Haven't really had a
> chance to look it over yet, but it does have the two new colleges of Rune
> and shaping magics in them.
>
> On another note. Does anyone allow their players to be Shapers? I had a
> player that played one a while back in my campaign, and my god, there were
> minor magic items all over the place. He never made anything powerful
> enough that it actually cost him endurance to make, but my god you can make
> a lot of piddily stuff. I eventually had to take him to the side and ask
> him to roll up another character as it was getting out of control. He
> actually agreed with me and was happy to create a new character. I know it
> takes time to make stuff, but in my campaign, I really let players have
> almost total control in what they do (I.e. I don't force them to save the
> world, go on long drawn out quests they they are forced to complete if they
> ever want to get home, etc). There is the occasional thing that comes up
> that requires their attention, i.e. the ruler of the region they live in
> requests a favor that they really cant refuse, but other than that, they
> pretty much choose what they want to do. I always have a a dozen ideas
> ready to go that I throw hints out about as they play, so they can choose
> for themselves what they want to go do. They all really like it a lot, and
> all have said they prefer it over the more traditional forced adventures
> type of campaign, but the big drawback is that if one of the players, like
> the shaper, decides they want to take a year or two off, usually no one has
> any problems with this. So they all go do thier own thing for a few years
> until everyone is ready and then go off adventuring again. A PC Shaper
> with time on their hands is a dangerous thing!
>
> Anyway. I seem to have rambled on quite a bit here, so I'll let it go at
> that.
>
> >Somewhen in time, one of the published modules had some new colleges of
> magic. I think one of them was Rune magics. Does anybody remember which
> module that was or what colleges were covered? Does anybody have a copy for
> sale?
> >
> >If nothing else, maybe we can kep this lista alive - sure has been quiet
> since I joined.
> >
> >Marty
> >
>
> ----System Information
> Platform: Windows 95 v. 4.10
> Machine Type: Intel
> System Version: 4.10
> Processor: 586
> Physical RAM Installed: 130552 Kb
> Virtual RAM: 2093056 Kb
> Eudora Pro: Version 3.0.5 (32)
> Winsock: Microsoft wsock32.dll, ver2.2, 32bit of Apr 21 1999, at 02:13:38.
>
> Jason Winter
> Alarian@uswest.net
> http://www.darkrealms.com/~alarian/
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/dqn-list
> http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/dqn-list
> http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

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Group: dqn-list	Message: 297	From: GBerman@aol.com	Date: 6/2/1999
Subject: Dragonquest

Hi All,
if you have any DQ stuff for sale please email me with details :)
--Geoff

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Group: dqn-list	Message: 298	From: Todd Coy	Date: 6/3/1999
Subject: Re: New Colleges?

Greetings,

Something that has helped with the proliferation of Rag Golems, and
investments for that matter, is to only allow the mage to make as many as
they have rank in the ritual. i.e.. you could only have a max of 21 Rag
Golems, or investments active at any one time.

Todd

----- Original Message -----
From: Bishop Carlmund <carlmund@churcharmy.com.au>
To: <dqn-list@egroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 1999 12:06 AM
Subject: [DQN-list] Re: New Colleges?

> Hi everyone,
> One thing I did with the Rag and String Golems was to make them tied
to the Shapers 'Life Force'. When a Rag and String Golem was killed the
Shaper lost permantly the 3 endurance as well. Endurance is rather
> expensive in Experience Points to keep buying back. This certainly limited
the Rag & String Golems our Shaper wanted to make as well as making him very
cautious with how he used them!
> I also toyed with the idea of a Shaper needing an item with Military
Scientist Skill imbedded to control large numbers of Golems. I really never
persued this idea though.
> Also the best way to knock a Iron Golem out is with the Shaper's
Mudslick Spell. I also ruled a Namer had to do a Counterspell RITUAL to make
a Golem deactivate as opposed to a simple Counter Spell. I didn't want our
> Shaper to feel the whole world was against him!
> Keep the DQ Flame alive,
> Andrew.
>
> Captain Andrew D. Carter C.A. Dip.Ev. Church Army
(Anglican/Episcopalian).
> a.k.a. Lord Carlmund from Quellburn, First Bishop of Quellbourne.
> "HOLY ORDER of the WHITE and BLACK DICE"
> Incorporating "DQuell Productions" and "RMirk Productions".
> http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Castle/7044/
> Our World cries out :0(
> WILL THE REAL GOD PLEASE STAND UP!!!!!!!
>
> David Mason wrote:
>
> > The other troubling thing about shapers is the number of Golems they can
produce, quickly cluttering up any traps and ambushes set and making combats
an encounter between an army of golems and whatever you put there.
> >
> > >>> Jason Winter <Alarian@uswest.net> 29/May/99 04:50:19 am >>>
> > I actually just bought this module from Titan games about 2 weeks ago.
> > I've been a big DQ fan since 2nd edition first appeared and I was amazed
> > that I had never heard of it before a few weeks ago. Haven't really had
a
> > chance to look it over yet, but it does have the two new colleges of
Rune
> > and shaping magics in them.
> >
> > On another note. Does anyone allow their players to be Shapers? I had a
> > player that played one a while back in my campaign, and my god, there
were
> > minor magic items all over the place. He never made anything powerful
> > enough that it actually cost him endurance to make, but my god you can
make
> > a lot of piddily stuff. I eventually had to take him to the side and
ask
> > him to roll up another character as it was getting out of control. He
> > actually agreed with me and was happy to create a new character. I know
it
> > takes time to make stuff, but in my campaign, I really let players have
> > almost total control in what they do (I.e. I don't force them to save
the
> > world, go on long drawn out quests they they are forced to complete if
they
> > ever want to get home, etc). There is the occasional thing that comes
up
> > that requires their attention, i.e. the ruler of the region they live in
> > requests a favor that they really cant refuse, but other than that, they
> > pretty much choose what they want to do. I always have a a dozen ideas
> > ready to go that I throw hints out about as they play, so they can
choose
> > for themselves what they want to go do. They all really like it a lot,
and
> > all have said they prefer it over the more traditional forced adventures
> > type of campaign, but the big drawback is that if one of the players,
like
> > the shaper, decides they want to take a year or two off, usually no one
has
> > any problems with this. So they all go do thier own thing for a few
years
> > until everyone is ready and then go off adventuring again. A PC Shaper
> > with time on their hands is a dangerous thing!
> >
> > Anyway. I seem to have rambled on quite a bit here, so I'll let it go
at
> > that.
> >
> > >Somewhen in time, one of the published modules had some new colleges of
> > magic. I think one of them was Rune magics. Does anybody remember which
> > module that was or what colleges were covered? Does anybody have a copy
for
> > sale?
> > >
> > >If nothing else, maybe we can kep this lista alive - sure has been
quiet
> > since I joined.
> > >
> > >Marty
> > >
> >
> > ----System Information
> > Platform: Windows 95 v. 4.10
> > Machine Type: Intel
> > System Version: 4.10
> > Processor: 586
> > Physical RAM Installed: 130552 Kb
> > Virtual RAM: 2093056 Kb
> > Eudora Pro: Version 3.0.5 (32)
> > Winsock: Microsoft wsock32.dll, ver2.2, 32bit of Apr 21 1999, at
02:13:38.
> >
> > Jason Winter
> > Alarian@uswest.net
> > http://www.darkrealms.com/~alarian/
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/dqn-list
> > http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/dqn-list
> > http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/dqn-list
> http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications
>
>
>
>
>

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Group: dqn-list	Message: 299	From: Brad Hakala	Date: 6/3/1999
Subject: Re: New Colleges?

I keep Shapers (and many other things that can get out of control) in
several ways:

Anything the players can do, NPC's can do too. The world doesn't shut off
when the players aren't there; any 'innovation' in the use of a college
will be quickly capitalized upon by the NPC's as the word spreads. None
of my players want to go up against a shaper with a million assorted
golems. Or up against a sneaky fire mage with rank 20 dragon flames and
walking unseen cast on him.

Shapers that get out of control quickly become military targets - the
military either wants to enlist them, or take them out because they are
too much of a threat or could be captured. Going up against whole armies
isn't fun for PC's (especially magic-savvy armies). And if they CAN take
out a well-prepared army singlehanded, it's definitely well past time to
retire the character.

Reducing experience awards for people who have personal armies do their
work for them is a good way to handle it; they're not really getting any
experience (except maybe a little Mil. Sci. for coordinating group
movements) are they?

The best limitation that I have on such things is: my players have gotten
rules raping out of their system, have learned to recognize when they're
doing it, and know when to stop because the game's a lot more fun that
way.

I'm hesitant to put more and more limitations on spells because the
Rules Lawyers can always find loopholes no matter how many changes you
make. Much better to get them to respect the 'spirit' of your game world.

(>|<) Omaq Bek (>|<)
| aka Brad Hakala |
| An equal opportunity annoyance. |

"I'm the king of bongo, baby, I'm the king of bongo"

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Group: dqn-list	Message: 300	From: Jason Winter	Date: 6/9/1999
Subject: Ok, here it goes

Well I have decided to publish my web page to the list. At this point I
would prefer it doesn't go much further than the people that are subsribed
to the list and perhaps friends you know. I would prefer it wasn't
published in any public place until I see how this goes.

There is a lot of information there, but none of it is in HTML format.
It's all in zipped word documents. Feel free to look it all over and give
me your opinions both good and bad. If you don't like something I would
like to know why though and perhaps an idea of what might make it better.
As you will see by the "last time updated" fields after each file some
files havent been updated in ages, while others get updated very
frequently. It's all in a perpetual state of change so, I'm always open to
good suggestions. Feel free to post your feelings/opinions to me personally
or to the site so some discussion might be generated.

Also remember, my stuff is very modified, so if your looking for pure DQ
material, while you might find some, much of it has been changed over the
years as my campaign progressed.

Anyway, here is the site:

www.darkrealms.com/~alarian/DQ/

Hope you enjoy whats there.
Jason Winter
Alarian@uswest.net
http://www.darkrealms.com/~alarian/

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Group: dqn-list	Message: 301	From: john.rauchert@sait.ab.ca	Date: 6/10/1999
Subject: DragonQuest books for the taking

Here is an opportunity for anyone who does not have a copy of DQ 2nd edition or 3rd edition. Gleaned from the Webrpg forum:

http://townhall.webrpg.com/index.phtml?nextid=153938

Subject: FS: 2nd & 3rd Paperbacks
Posted by: M Richter mailto:mrichter@enteract.com
Date: 06/10/1999 11:17

Wow. A good system never dies...

I stopped playing DQ 15 years ago, but lugged around my fat folders of campaigns & NPCs until I got married last year. Couldn�t bring myself to toss the books, tho... Figured there might be someone out there who might want �em. Well, this would be the place to find said someone, no?

Anyhow, I�m shedding a beat up Second Book of Magic (from box set?), taped up paperback second edition, and a not exactly mint paperback third edition. And I�ll toss in whatever other RPG books I�ve got left lying around.

Whoever makes the most deserving case by 6/15 gets the goods. If you think it�ll entertain the masses, by all means post your case here, but make sure you also email me. Good cases include shipping address, might include pity, never include whining.

Most Respectfully,
--M

So if you are deserving get emailing

John F. Rauchert

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Group: dqn-list	Message: 302	From: David Mason	Date: 6/10/1999
Subject: Re: New Colleges?

In fact my main concern is the impact of NPC shapers doing just that. A well organised government with a couple of shapers hired or actualy loyal to the government, and wars just aren't the same. As with many of the over-the-top combinations, it's not that the PC's do it (they have too many agendas to ever focus on one to that extent), it's justifying the absence of them among their more powerful enemies, and/or working out what measurs are used to protect kings and such from these amazingly dangerous individuals. For example, their dosn't seem to be a way to stop teleporting assasins. Assasins should be able to know from astrologers how best to go about assinations. etc.

>>> Brad Hakala <hakal881@uidaho.edu> 4/Jun/99 02:39:41 AM >>>