>
> Question: We are all 39 to 45 years old, does anybody knwo of any
> rolepalyers who play on past 60/retirement age?
>
> John
>

Gary Gygax? The game itself is only 30 years old... ask my in
another 30 years (god willing)

> Question: We are all 39 to 45 years old, does anybody knwo of any
> rolepalyers who play on past 60/retirement age?
>
> John
>

Our group active players ranges from an age of 18 to over 70. Most of
our active group is over 45. My age is 50.

Our less than active players seem to range from 17 to mid 60s. Oddly,
it is more difficult for us to find younger players who are not
related to the long time players.

Our group at its peak was about 30 players. Now sadly we number only 6
active players.

-- Dennis

John D posted a message regarding the average age of the gamers in his
group. In reading the original message and some of the responses, I
was surprised by size of groups.

I have always played campaigns that are 4 or 5 people, with one Gm, and
then occasionally another person takes over for a while. But on this
list I have read about the Seagate Adventurers Guild, and one other
person posted that a group had at one time 40 active players. Locally,
when I first re-discovered DragonQUest, I almost hooked up with a group
that had 16 active players. I had a question about groups that large,
for those of you in the know.

How does that game run? Typically i would set a direction for the
adventurers, or would take a request about where the players wanted to
go, and what they wanted to do. Or I would just make it up as I went
along. But almost always, the adventure was executed as a group. I
imagine with a group that large, the players characters would go in
different directions, or run separate adventures.

So how do these large groups work in your experience?

JohnC

When I was in college, we had a group that started out at about 10 or so
players that actually went fairly smoothly, but by the second year I was
there, the group had swelled to 20-30 players at any given night. What our
GM did was split us into groups with each group running on a different
night (can't imagine how he was able to GM 3 nights a week and still keep
up his grades, but he did it well). Periodically out groups would get
together for "mega" adventures that were really a lot of fun. By this time
most of the group was in the 10th-14th level range (this was 1st edition
AD&D, I'm an old timer) and encounter would go something like this. You
see 5 frost giants, "Reign of fiery death would rain down upon them when
8-10 fireballs landed on them" and then we would go on. The main
encounters of course didn't go like this, but quite a few did and it was
quite fun. Anyway. After a mega-adventure was over, we would break back
up into our separate groups and continue on. We also had a communication
system set up between the groups and so occasionally when things would go
bad and an entire group would get wiped out one of the other groups would
discover it usually within a few days and come to the rescue. The campaign
came to an end my final year with a massive war which was a lot of fun as well.



At 01:15 PM 4/5/2006, you wrote:

>John D posted a message regarding the average age of the gamers in his
>group. In reading the original message and some of the responses, I
>was surprised by size of groups.
>
>I have always played campaigns that are 4 or 5 people, with one Gm, and
>then occasionally another person takes over for a while. But on this
>list I have read about the Seagate Adventurers Guild, and one other
>person posted that a group had at one time 40 active players. Locally,
>when I first re-discovered DragonQUest, I almost hooked up with a group
>that had 16 active players. I had a question about groups that large,
>for those of you in the know.
>
>How does that game run? Typically i would set a direction for the
>adventurers, or would take a request about where the players wanted to
>go, and what they wanted to do. Or I would just make it up as I went
>along. But almost always, the adventure was executed as a group. I
>imagine with a group that large, the players characters would go in
>different directions, or run separate adventures.
>
>So how do these large groups work in your experience?
>
>JohnC
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

Here's the basic outline for the College of Sun Magics. It's not a
full-fleged college by any means, but it lays out the general idea of
what the college would be like.

I'm glad to hear any feedback or ideas for further fleshing out this
college.

--Rodger Thorm

Here's my rough outline for what Sun Magics might incorporate.

Sun Magics (Entities)

BC -15% at dusk or dawn (1 hr around sunset/sunrise)
BC -40% at night

Caster is Lunar Aspected -20 %
Caster is Sun Aspected +5 %

Because of the importance of the action of the individual in Sun
Magics, there is a -20% penalty to the base chance of any attempt to
perform an Investment Ritual or Ward Ritual with any spell of the
College of Sun Magics. The same penalty applies to any attempt to
work Shaping Magic in conjunction with Sun Magics, or to contain Sun
Magics with the works of Alchemists or Mechanicians.

Talents:
T-1 Detect Aura - similar to Namers, but can only read the aura of an
entity or object in direct sunlight. -10% if overcast.

General Knowledge Spells:
G-1 Light
G-2 Blessing/Curse on Unborn Child
G-3 Blessing/Curse on Crops
G-4 Minor Heal Wounds - acts as a physiker's kit, stops bleeding,
etc. First-aid and minor cure, but not as strong as Spec. Know. Healing
G-5 Leadership - target adds +10 + (2 x Rank) to
G-6 Luck -
G-7 Enchant Common Item - make things work better (lock pick,
telescope, etc.). Add +1/3 rks to BC of any ability
G-8 Accelerate Plant Growth
G-9 Dazzle/Stun - figure is incapacitated for (Rank + 2) Pulses.
Effects of this spell are immediately dispersed if the target is
engaged in combat or struck by a thrown weapon, missile weapon, or spell.
G-10 Purification (per rune G-8)
G-11 Charm


General Knowledge Rituals:
Q-1 Oracle

Special Knowledge Spells:
S-1 Healing (heals FT or EN)
S-2 Arrows of Light
S-3 Avatar (project image of self to remote location)
S-4 Cure Poison
S-5 Truth (rune mag. S-5)
S-6 Magic Divination
S-7 Shield of Force - reduce sc of opponent
S-8 Halo of Protection - reduce damage from attacks
S-9 Heal Wounds - enables caster to mend broken bones,
S-10 Enhancing Enchantment
S-11 Summon Enchanted Entity (per Less. Summ.)
S-12 Summon Entities of Light (LS S-10)
S-13 Mass Charm
S-12 Enchant Weapons
S-13 Enchant Armor

Special Knowledge Rituals:
R-1 Truespeaking

NOTES:
The College of Sun Magics looks at Apollo

The College of Sun Magics is based more on a divine interpretation of
the sun, and considers the aspects of Apollo (Charioteer of the Sun,
but also patron of medicine and healing, patron of the Oracle at
Delphi, etc.), as well as the sun as a metaphor for power and
leadership, monotheistic sun cults, the image of Louis XIV as a
sun-god, etc. in working out the basis for the college. The Sun was a
symbol of leadership (and often was regarded as a god) in many
civilizations, so my approach to Sun Magics makes it a college that
supports leadership, healing, and personal power. (This also makes it
more difficult for Sun Mages to work with wards or investments or to
combine their spells with the works of Alchemists, Mechanicians, or
Shapers.) Sun Mages also suffer significant penalties when trying to
work at night (rather obviously).

The Sun itself is an entity of enormous power. For some Sun Mages, it
may be a sense of the divine about the Sun.

For this reason Sun Magics is a college of the Entities Branch, and is
unrelated and unconcerned by the College of Celestial Magics. The two
colleges are neither allied nor inimical to one another.

Sun magics is concerned with the noble principles of Truth and Life.

Hullo, JohnD,

In a message of April 5th, 2006, you wrote,

>> Okay, this is sounding cool. Reminds me of the Stan Nicholls
>>"Orcs: First Blood" stuff as well. I did something along these lines a
>>long time ago in my campaign.
>
> Big fan of this too and we nearly started campaign wholley based on this but
> all got delayed and put on back burner.

That's right...weren't you the guy who did the stats for the Orcs
of Maras-Dantia here on the list once upon a time? :)

>> Okay, inteersting situation... For me, there is an obvious solution
>>to this dilemma that you face. The most obvious solution here is to
>>have the characters confronted from this point on by an adversary and
>>his or her minions, one who wants the shard(s) for himself or herself.
>>Common sense says that it is time to make things difficult for the
>>characters, to say the least. The best adversary to use here would be
>>the religion that you mentioned above. Fanatical believers and acolytes
>>would make for good opposition, especially if their priestly-ness
>>somehow negates magic and all.
>
> Shard number 5 in the hands of an adversary (witch-lord who masters in
> arachnamancey). long back story but he was the thrall of the lich queen till
> he found the shard and managed to escape here and indeed set up his onw
> rival bad lands. He doesnt really do anyone any harm, sits deep in his
> forest surrounding by goblins and spiders (these two races are linked long
> in the past but more backstory).

This guy sounds like he wouuld be the perfect adversary to the
characters, and you still also have the religious cult of fanatics to
add into the mix, giving the campaign a bit of an epic focus in this
regard - since the player character group obviously wants to pursue this
plot.

> I do agree that they shouldnt have become the campaign focus, but getting
> hold off +10 stat items is quite a big distraction. The party half wanted to
> nobble the witch lord and get the shard and half to get the lich queen as
> her airborne armies of harpys and gargoyles and foul birds has just been
> destroyed in a mass combat with the united folk of ardania. She is weakened
> somewhat.

I suspect the mistake may have been earlier, when the characters
found about about the shards in the first place. Unless, of course,
they acquired one along the way and didn't know what they had to start
with. The moment they started asking questions about it, the characters
should have started to have "problems".

> What the party should be doing, but have agreed to let other adventuring
> parties do, is to track the main bad guys deep into the mountains who have
> with them the five dragons (who are really fallen angels) the party need to
> rescue. The party, while on a false trail of one shard, inadvertently awoke
> the dragons.>

This sucks... letting other adventuring parties deal with their
leftover dirty work. Frankly, as a GM, I wouldn't tolerate this...the
world is not a static place that is unaffected by what they do, and they
should learn this fact even if it's the hard way.

Sorry, that rant was undeserved by you. My apologies. :)

> I guess i did let the party lead too much and they became a bit too
> obsessed. All my campaigns, an i am a right b*gger for doing this, has
> multiple shades of grey and dilemas, which often end up with things going
> astray. I will sort this eventually as i do like the campaign setting i have
> created.

Good to hear it. I have a fondness for running epic plots like
this, and I find that I have to force myself not to bring in too many of
these kinds of threads for plots too early in the game, otherwise the
players tend to take the bait.

> The temples and cults in the campaign give magic to folk, so their is no
> religion that is anti-magic. Their is supposedly a college of light magic
> (paladin-ish as they do appear in the computer game) but it is 'lost'. Im
> sure finding it would be one twist to many.

True. However, this means that the magic of the player characters
can certainly be opposed by the forces around them using magic as well.
Sauce for the goose, and all that. :)

> One of the players is currently DMing MERP so i get to play as a change. I
> am also Dming a bit of D&D set in trudi canavans black magician trilogy,
> except the party are the magicians,not the heroes so they get to play jack
> booted oppressors for a while rather than good guy heroes.

While the MERP side of things doesn't appeal to me, I have to admit
that I rather like the idea of playing the jack-booted oppressors. Good
change of pace.

--
JohnK
e-mail: jkahane@comnet.ca
web: http://www.comnet.ca/~jkahane

Hullo, JohnC,

In a message of April 5th, 2006, you wrote,

<snip>

> I have always played campaigns that are 4 or 5 people, with one Gm, and
> then occasionally another person takes over for a while.

Most of my own RPG experience is along these same game lines. I've
played in groups with about 6 players, but no higher, and my Sunday
group currently has 3 players. The Friday night game group consists of
9 people, other than myself, but only 5 or 6 of them play at any one time.

[Re: Seagate Guide and Other Large Groups]
<snip>

> How does that game run? Typically i would set a direction for the
> adventurers, or would take a request about where the players wanted to
> go, and what they wanted to do. Or I would just make it up as I went
> along. But almost always, the adventure was executed as a group. I
> imagine with a group that large, the players characters would go in
> different directions, or run separate adventures.
>
> So how do these large groups work in your experience?

Good question. Look forward to seeing the answers on this one.

--
JohnK
e-mail: jkahane@comnet.ca
web: http://www.comnet.ca/~jkahane

Hullo, JohnD,

In a message of April 5th, 2006, you wrote,

> Question: We are all 39 to 45 years old, does anybody knwo of any
> rolepalyers who play on past 60/retirement age?

Well, I will be 51 later this year. :) My Friday night group is
all folks between 38 and 55 years of age, and I've got my 10-year-old
goddaughter who is emotionally mature for her age about to play as well.
In a couple of months, they will be joined by the 14-year-old son of
another of my players. DRAGONQUEST: The Next Generation. :)

My Sunday group players are all between 36 and 45, other than myself.

Gaming group demographics, who'd have thought? :)

--
JohnK
e-mail: jkahane@comnet.ca
web: http://www.comnet.ca/~jkahane

Chello!

I always used to use the (OOP) Heroes of Fantasy background tables put
out by Task Force Games. Most starting PCs would end up with 2-3
decent weapons skilss (rank 2-4), maybe a couple of levels of thief or
ranger, maybe some spell ranks...wasn't too bad.

Tony

"`There are no happy endings,' Cerin told her. `There are no real
endings ever--happy or otherwise. We all have our own stories which are
just a part of the one Story that binds both this world and Faerie….all
the while the Story just goes on.'"
Charles de Lint, Dreams Underfoot

Tony,

I never heard of those. Was this a DQ release or just something you
adapted?

Thanks,

Marty

On Apr 10, 2006, at 10:04 AM, Anthony N. Emmel wrote:

> Chello!
>
> I always used to use the (OOP) Heroes of Fantasy background tables put
> out by Task Force Games. Most starting PCs would end up with 2-3
> decent weapons skilss (rank 2-4), maybe a couple of levels of thief or
> ranger, maybe some spell ranks...wasn't too bad.
>
> Tony
>
> "`There are no happy endings,' Cerin told her. `There are no real
> endings ever--happy or otherwise. We all have our own stories which
> are
> just a part of the one Story that binds both this world and
> Faerie….all
> the while the Story just goes on.'"
> Charles de Lint, Dreams Underfoot
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Chello!

--- In dqn-list@yahoogroups.com, Martin Gallo <martimer@...> wrote:
>
> Tony,
>
> I never heard of those. Was this a DQ release or just something
you
> adapted?

Marty, it was a generic fantasy background supplement put out by Task
Force Games in the late 80's, early 90's. It did have conversion
notes from DQ (as well as most of the other FRPGs at the time, RQ,
AD&D, etc.).

They also had books for Modern and Futuristic RPGs.

Gave a character his life history prior to the game. Get be barely
trained or very experienced...usually somewhere inbetween.

You rolled on random tables to find civilization type, social class,
etc. Adolescent and childhood events..and adult events as well.
Kinda fun, actually. events also conspired to give the character
Light, Neutral, and Dark personality traits.

Wow! I just checked them out at Noble Knight and apparently they're
collector's items now!

https://www.nobleknight.com/ViewProducts.asp_Q_ProductLineID_E_177_A_M
anufacturerID_E_50_A_CategoryID_E_12_A_GenreID_E_

Tony

***************
"Sturm!" Tanis said urgently. "Come on! We've got to get out of here!"
"Run?" The knight appeared astonished. "From this rabble?"
Hickman & Weis, Dragons of Autumn Twilight

Martin,

He is talking about a series written by Paul Jaquays and published by TFG.  The overall series was Central Casting and the fantasy book was titled Heroes of Legend.

They are a lot of fun for generating back story information for characters.

I often get adventure hooks out of player backgrounds and this gives even the most unimaginative player something to work with.

Some years ago I started on a rough software version of it but never really finished it.  Below is dump of a test run that will give you an idea of what kind of info comes out of the book.  The output is a bit chaotic but you'll get the idea.

     Phil

======================================
----- Culture:  Barbarian
   Native of Wilds/Urban
   Rank 3 Hand weapon
   Rank 3 Missile weapon
   Rank 5 in either Wilderness or Urban survival
   Rank 1 in with secondary survival skill (Wilderness or Urban)
   Possess one hand weapon and one missile weapon.
----- Social Status:  Poor
   Must work hard or become destitute. Usually very religious
   50% of starting money
----- The Family Members
Extended family, including mother and father 1 grandparents, and
   3 aunts, uncles and cousins.
   You have 4 siblings: 1 brothers, 3 sisters
   Character is the 'middle' child
You were born legitimate
***  On the day of your birth ***
Born in a hospital or healers guild hall
At least 2 unusual things happened on this day.
  1 - All the glassware in the vicinity shattered
  2 - A seer declares that the character will be afflicted by an
        ancient family curse. (Family has forgotten the curse)
Condemned to a nomadic life.  Can never
stay in one city, place, country, etc.
for more than a year and a day.
***  Household Occupations  ***
Head of household has one occupation.
Hunter - a hunter of animals.
*** Childhood Events ***  1 Significant Events
1 - Serve a patron.
--------------- The Patron experience -------------
Your patron is as follows...He/she is the head of this guild.
Saddle and Riding Harness Maker.
Patronage was bestowed because...
   The patron needs the character's skills.
 ---------------- Events during Patronage --------------
1 - Patron is noted for the following trait.
Hysterical sense loss - Character believes that he is deaf.
*** Adolescent Events *** 5 Significant Events
1 - (null)1 - A cross-planar rift opens and the character is
   abducted by humanoids from the other plane.  Moments later,
   the character reappears, but he has physically aged 11
   years, has no memories of that lost time, and has not
   mentally aged even a minute.
2 - A good fairy blesses the character for a good deed.
Character is unaffected by disease or infection.
3 - (null)The character is responsible for saving a life.
4 - Serve a patron.
--------------- The Patron experience -------------
Your patron is as follows...He/she is the head of this guild.
Clock Maker - makes clocks of all kinds.
Patronage was bestowed because...
   The patron needs the character's skills.
 ---------------- Events during Patronage --------------
1 - Patron provides for character's formal education.
2 - The character leaves the patron's entourage after 4 years.
3 - Patron is outlawed.  All those under his patronage
   are watched closely by the ruler of the land's secret
   police.
5 - Get a friend.
a thief
*** Significant Events for Adults ***
At least 2 events
1 - The character saves someone's life.  This person
        becomes the character's companion.
Companion is a child.  Age:  9
Companion is a Loyal Friend.
*** End of Companion ***
2 - Learn to use an unusual weapon at Rank 3 proficiency.
        The weapon is something alien to the characters
        culture.
**** Neutral Traits 2
Obsessively Aesthetic: possessions are unnecessary.
Strongly Leader: takes initiative, can take command.
**** Lightside Traits 2
Trivially Punctual: always on time.
Trivially Generous: willing to give more than fairly.
**** Darkside Traits 0
**** Exotic Traits 0

---

Love cheap thrills? Enjoy PC-to-Phone calls to 30+ countries for just 2¢/min with Yahoo! Messenger with Voice.

"darkislephil" wrote:

>The magic houses aren't anything a DQ GM probably hasn't come up with
>after all this time.

>Mana weather and such - if you have Enchanted Wood you have most of
>the info in World Gen already. Just add in a 1-10 Mana rating for

areas and you have most of the "manology" in World Gen.

>Group Magic though I think adds something to DQ. The basic idea is
>that both spells and rituals can be done via Group Magic. You can
>have both mage and non-mage participants in these group magic sessions
>with bonuses for increasing cast chances up to certain limits. Group
>spells take 5 minutes. World Gen also added a couple special rituals
>to each college only for group use. (And, yes, World Gen was done with
>at least an early copy of Arcane Wisdom though some parts of WG have
>1st ed DQ references. shrug.)

What magic houses are you referring to?

I'd be interested in hearing more about the group magic as well. Also
wondering if its similar to the group magic that showed up in Gurps.

Thanks,
Ted

Sorry about the delay.

Magic houses in World Gen were essentially guilds.   They defined benefits and costs for belonging to them, the color and type of robes they might wear, the basic organizational structure, the type of place or building the magic house might be in.

Group Magic was as I said performing rituals in groups.  Any ritual in a casters college could be performed in a group setting but there were also group-only rituals. There were bonuses for having extra assistants participating and also spectators.  Participants received minor benefits for taking part in rituals.  Participation counted as 2-3 days study towards improving the ritual.

Each college had one or two group-only rituals.  EE college had Sleep at a Distance.  Air Magic had Giant Windstorm.  Celestials summoned Meteor Showers.

It's too bad it didn't get polished up and released.

tmckelvey77089 <tmckelvey@bigfoot.com> wrote:

"darkislephil" wrote:

>The magic houses aren't anything a DQ GM probably hasn't come up with
>after all this time.

>Mana weather and such - if you have Enchanted Wood you have most of
>the info in World Gen already. Just add in a 1-10 Mana rating for
areas and you have most of the "manology" in World Gen.

>Group Magic though I think adds something to DQ. The basic idea is
>that both spells and rituals can be done via Group Magic. You can
>have both mage and non-mage participants in these group magic sessions
>with bonuses for increasing cast chances up to certain limits. Group
>spells take 5 minutes. World Gen also added a couple special rituals
>to each college only for group use. (And, yes, World Gen was done with
>at least an early copy of Arcane Wisdom though some parts of WG have
>1st ed DQ references. shrug.)

What magic houses are you referring to?

I'd be interested in hearing more about the group magic as well.  Also
wondering if its similar to the group magic that showed up in Gurps.

Thanks,
Ted

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The World Generation Supliment sounds like a project for our
collective wisdom. What do people think?

If we were to do it it would be nice to have an idea about what would
have been in it

David

--- In dqn-list@yahoogroups.com, Phil Wright <darkislephil@...> wrote:
>
> Sorry about the delay.
>
> Magic houses in World Gen were essentially guilds. They defined
benefits and costs for belonging to them, the color and type of robes
they might wear, the basic organizational structure, the type of place
or building the magic house might be in.
>
> Group Magic was as I said performing rituals in groups. Any ritual
in a casters college could be performed in a group setting but there
were also group-only rituals. There were bonuses for having extra
assistants participating and also spectators. Participants received
minor benefits for taking part in rituals. Participation counted as
2-3 days study towards improving the ritual.
>
> Each college had one or two group-only rituals. EE college had
Sleep at a Distance. Air Magic had Giant Windstorm. Celestials
summoned Meteor Showers.
>
> It's too bad it didn't get polished up and released.
>
> tmckelvey77089 <tmckelvey@...> wrote: "darkislephil" wrote:
>
> >The magic houses aren't anything a DQ GM probably hasn't come up with
> >after all this time.
>
> >Mana weather and such - if you have Enchanted Wood you have most of
> >the info in World Gen already. Just add in a 1-10 Mana rating for
> areas and you have most of the "manology" in World Gen.
>
> >Group Magic though I think adds something to DQ. The basic idea is
> >that both spells and rituals can be done via Group Magic. You can
> >have both mage and non-mage participants in these group magic sessions
> >with bonuses for increasing cast chances up to certain limits. Group
> >spells take 5 minutes. World Gen also added a couple special rituals
> >to each college only for group use. (And, yes, World Gen was done with
> >at least an early copy of Arcane Wisdom though some parts of WG have
> >1st ed DQ references. shrug.)
>
> What magic houses are you referring to?
>
> I'd be interested in hearing more about the group magic as well. Also
> wondering if its similar to the group magic that showed up in Gurps.
>
> Thanks,
> Ted
>
>
>
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS
> Computer role
playing game Online role playing
games Role playing games online

Massive multiplayer online role playing games
Star wars role playing game
Wheel of time role playing game

>
> ---------------------------------
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>
> Visit your group "dqn-list" on the web.
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> dqn-list-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
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I can't believe people are still playing this game. I played it for a
couple of years when I was about 13 or 14 but I vaguely remember the
GM telling me the game was bought out by D&D and that was the end of
it. I searched for goofs and I see posts talking about 40 member
groups?

Any groups in the northern VA/D.C. area?

I think one of the things I liked most about DQ vs. D&D was it struck
me as more realistic. D&D would allow you to become so powereful you
could slaughter 20+ people with ease, while in DQ you were hard
pressed to defeat two.

Bill

HI Bill,

Welcome. Yes, many of us still play this game...Though you will hear
most people here say they don't play it enough. Welcome!
JohnC

> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: [DQN-list] New to this group
> From: "arkivbouv" <arkivbouv@yahoo.com>
> Date: Sun, June 04, 2006 5:55 pm
> To: dqn-list@yahoogroups.com
>
> I can't believe people are still playing this game. I played it for a
> couple of years when I was about 13 or 14 but I vaguely remember the
> GM telling me the game was bought out by D&D and that was the end of
> it. I searched for goofs and I see posts talking about 40 member
> groups?
>
> Any groups in the northern VA/D.C. area?
>
> I think one of the things I liked most about DQ vs. D&D was it struck
> me as more realistic. D&D would allow you to become so powereful you
> could slaughter 20+ people with ease, while in DQ you were hard
> pressed to defeat two.
>
> Bill
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Only recently joined the group myself. I also have to admit that I
haven't played the game for quite a while. (RL has this annoying
tendency to change my schedule... and without so much as a "By your
leave...")


What part of the the DC Metro area do you live in? Maybe we can scrape
together a nostalgia game or something... :)

Charlie




on 6/5/2006 11:41 AM john@johncorey.com Spake unto us, Saying:

> HI Bill,
>
> Welcome. Yes, many of us still play this game...Though you will hear
> most people here say they don't play it enough. Welcome!
> JohnC
>
> > -------- Original Message --------
> > Subject: [DQN-list] New to this group
> > From: "arkivbouv" <arkivbouv@yahoo.com>
> > Date: Sun, June 04, 2006 5:55 pm
> > To: dqn-list@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > I can't believe people are still playing this game. I played it for a
> > couple of years when I was about 13 or 14 but I vaguely remember the
> > GM telling me the game was bought out by D&D and that was the end of
> > it. I searched for goofs and I see posts talking about 40 member
> > groups?
> >
> > Any groups in the northern VA/D.C. area?
> >
> > I think one of the things I liked most about DQ vs. D&D was it struck
> > me as more realistic. D&D would allow you to become so powereful you
> > could slaughter 20+ people with ease, while in DQ you were hard
> > pressed to defeat two.
> >
> > Bill
> >

--

Sometimes it just isn't worth chewing through the restraints.

Hi Charlie, I grew up in McLean but live in Annandale now (Fairfax
county). It would be great to join a game agin. Do you play with a
groups currently?

I found a website last night called DragonQuest Frontiers. It had a
list of races I don't remember from the days I played. Were these
characters added later? Or are these his own creation?

Bill

--- In dqn-list@yahoogroups.com, Charlie Ball <charles.ball@...>
wrote:

>
> Only recently joined the group myself. I also have to admit that I
> haven't played the game for quite a while. (RL has this annoying
> tendency to change my schedule... and without so much as a "By

your

> leave...")
>
>
> What part of the the DC Metro area do you live in? Maybe we can

scrape

> together a nostalgia game or something... :)
>
> Charlie
>
>
>
>
> on 6/5/2006 11:41 AM john@... Spake unto us, Saying:
> > HI Bill,
> >
> > Welcome. Yes, many of us still play this game...Though you will

hear

> > most people here say they don't play it enough. Welcome!
> > JohnC
> >
> > > -------- Original Message --------
> > > Subject: [DQN-list] New to this group
> > > From: "arkivbouv" <arkivbouv@...>
> > > Date: Sun, June 04, 2006 5:55 pm
> > > To: dqn-list@yahoogroups.com
> > >
> > > I can't believe people are still playing this game. I played

it for a

> > > couple of years when I was about 13 or 14 but I vaguely

remember the

> > > GM telling me the game was bought out by D&D and that was the

end of

> > > it. I searched for goofs and I see posts talking about 40

member

> > > groups?
> > >
> > > Any groups in the northern VA/D.C. area?
> > >
> > > I think one of the things I liked most about DQ vs. D&D was it

struck

> > > me as more realistic. D&D would allow you to become so

powereful you

> > > could slaughter 20+ people with ease, while in DQ you were hard
> > > pressed to defeat two.
> > >
> > > Bill
> > >
> --
>
> Sometimes it just isn't worth chewing through the restraints.
>

Bill,

Absolutely no clue as to the extra races... I was just now trying to
recall if I still have the rule book. I once had everything neatly boxed
away, but it's been years since I had the material in front of me.

Not currently in a DQ game. Originally got onto the DQ list after a
short-lived PBeM game ended. I'm hoping I've still got the rules laying
around somewhere.

I currently dwell in Leesburg. If there are a couple of others in the
area who'd be up for a game, then I'd certainly be willing to get
together somewhere. :)





on 6/5/2006 4:16 PM arkivbouv Spake unto us, Saying:

> Hi Charlie, I grew up in McLean but live in Annandale now (Fairfax
> county). It would be great to join a game agin. Do you play with a
> groups currently?
>
> I found a website last night called DragonQuest Frontiers. It had a
> list of races I don't remember from the days I played. Were these
> characters added later? Or are these his own creation?
>
> Bill
>
> --- In dqn-list@yahoogroups.com, Charlie Ball <charles.ball@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > Only recently joined the group myself. I also have to admit that I
> > haven't played the game for quite a while. (RL has this annoying
> > tendency to change my schedule... and without so much as a "By
> your
> > leave...")
> >
> >
> > What part of the the DC Metro area do you live in? Maybe we can
> scrape
> > together a nostalgia game or something... :)

--
Sometimes it just isn't worth chewing through the restraints.

Is anyone on this list currently playing in this area, or know of a
group open to new members?

Bill

I thought I still had the book too, but a quick search only dug up
D&D manuals. I KNOW I had one, if not two DQ books once, so I'll
keep looking. It would be nice to game again, though I have to admit
I was never big on being the GM myself.

Does anyone on this list know of a group in the D.C. metro area?

As for the DQ Frontiers site. If you haven't seen it you should
check it out. A fun read. Some of the races seem a bit overboard,
but I did like some of them, such as the types or Orcs, for example.

Here is the link if you need it: http://www.dragonquestfrontiers.com/

Bill



--- In dqn-list@yahoogroups.com, Charlie Ball <charles.ball@...>
wrote:

>
> Bill,
>
> Absolutely no clue as to the extra races... I was just now trying

to

> recall if I still have the rule book. I once had everything neatly

boxed

> away, but it's been years since I had the material in front of me.
>
> Not currently in a DQ game. Originally got onto the DQ list after

a

> short-lived PBeM game ended. I'm hoping I've still got the rules

laying

> around somewhere.
>
> I currently dwell in Leesburg. If there are a couple of others in

the

> area who'd be up for a game, then I'd certainly be willing to get
> together somewhere. :)
>
>
>
>
>
> on 6/5/2006 4:16 PM arkivbouv Spake unto us, Saying:
> > Hi Charlie, I grew up in McLean but live in Annandale now

(Fairfax

> > county). It would be great to join a game agin. Do you play with

a

> > groups currently?
> >
> > I found a website last night called DragonQuest Frontiers. It

had a

> > list of races I don't remember from the days I played. Were these
> > characters added later? Or are these his own creation?
> >
> > Bill
> >
> > --- In dqn-list@yahoogroups.com, Charlie Ball <charles.ball@>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Only recently joined the group myself. I also have to admit

that I

> > > haven't played the game for quite a while. (RL has this

annoying

> > > tendency to change my schedule... and without so much as a "By
> > your
> > > leave...")
> > >
> > >
> > > What part of the the DC Metro area do you live in? Maybe we can
> > scrape
> > > together a nostalgia game or something... :)
>
> --
> Sometimes it just isn't worth chewing through the restraints.
>

I don't know of any groups, but I live in DC and would
be curious to learn of any groups in the area.....

Richard.

--- dqn-list@yahoogroups.com wrote:

> Date: Sun Jun 4, 2006 8:11 pm (PDT)
> From: "arkivbouv" arkivbouv@yahoo.com
> Subject: New to this group
>
>
>
> Any groups in the northern VA/D.C. area?

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

You can actually get a PDF of the 2nd Edition from the Dragonquestfiles
Yahoo group. So if you've misplaced your books somewhere, no problem.
Grab the files, print them out and use those. Preserves the original
books better too.

It's also worth taking a look in the files section of this group and the
one called dq-rules, as there's tons of stuff around. Among other
things, Rodger Thorm's Poor Brendan's Almanac, an expanded weapons and
armor list by yours truly and an optional expanded Aspects ruleset again
by yours truly, if you want to explore new things. I need to get off my
arse and finish the Dominions monster compilation too, it's only got a
couple dozen critters missing from it...

Edi

-------------------

arkivbouv wrote:

>I thought I still had the book too, but a quick search only dug up
>D&D manuals. I KNOW I had one, if not two DQ books once, so I'll
>keep looking. It would be nice to game again, though I have to admit
>I was never big on being the GM myself.
>
>Does anyone on this list know of a group in the D.C. metro area?
>
>As for the DQ Frontiers site. If you haven't seen it you should
>check it out. A fun read. Some of the races seem a bit overboard,
>but I did like some of them, such as the types or Orcs, for example.
>
>Here is the link if you need it: http://www.dragonquestfrontiers.com/
>
>Bill
>
>
>

Well, with you, me and Charlie, we have three people in the area. It
would most likely be better to have another one or two, but three is
a good start.

BTW, I saw a post on another site by a Richard Gard looking for a
group. Is that you? Or is there another Richard in the area?

Bill

--- In dqn-list@yahoogroups.com, "rmcnyc@..." <rmcnyc@...> wrote:
>
> I don't know of any groups, but I live in DC and would
> be curious to learn of any groups in the area.....
>
> Richard.
>
> --- dqn-list@yahoogroups.com wrote:
> > Date: Sun Jun 4, 2006 8:11 pm (PDT)
> > From: "arkivbouv" arkivbouv@...
> > Subject: New to this group
> >
> >
> >
> > Any groups in the northern VA/D.C. area?
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>

I knew I still had at least one.

Bill

Nope, not me. Though his name does kind of give me a
laugh. (No offense, Richard, if you're reading
this....)

So three, eh? Surely there's one or two more DC-area
people lurking.... Maybe?



--- dqn-list@yahoogroups.com wrote:
BTW, I saw a post on another site by a Richard Gard
looking for a group. Is that you?




__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

What do you think a minimum number of players should be?

Speaking of names, one of the guys I used to race cars with in the
SCCA (I changed groups) is named Rick Race.

Bill

--- In dqn-list@yahoogroups.com, "rmcnyc@..." <rmcnyc@...> wrote:
>
> Nope, not me. Though his name does kind of give me a
> laugh. (No offense, Richard, if you're reading
> this....)
>
> So three, eh? Surely there's one or two more DC-area
> people lurking.... Maybe?
>
>
>
> --- dqn-list@yahoogroups.com wrote:
> BTW, I saw a post on another site by a Richard Gard
> looking for a group. Is that you?
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>

Here's some draft ground rules I came up with for group magic in
DragonQuest. I based them on Phil's notes and referenced the GURPS
Ceremonial and Group Magic rules as found in the GURPS Magic book,
2nd Edition. I looked at those assuming that Steve Jackson took
what he developed for DQ World Generation and applied them to GURPS.

Basically, I divided the potential group participants into one of 4
(four) groups. Each contributes their own modifiers to the caster's
base chance for a spell or ritual.

Any number of mages can link to cast a spell, IF they ALL know it at
Rank 10 or higher. They form a casting "Circle". Other participants
can contribute to a lesser degree.

First is a "Master Assistant". This would be someone who knows the
spell or ritual at Rank 10 or higher. Second is an "Assistant" who
knows the spell or ritual but NOT to Rank 10 or higher. Third is
a "Spectator" who doesn't know the spell or ritual at all. Lastly
is an "Opposing Spectator".

A Master Assistant will add their MA cast bonus AND the value of
their rank to the Caster's Base Chance. An Assistant will add Just
their MA cast bonus. A Spectator will add +1 (they are assumed to
be functioning as chanters, holding candles, whatever). An Opposing
Spectator (someone who does NOT have a sincere belief and desire to
help the caster) subtracts 2 from the caster's base chance.

There is a maximum group bonus of +45 to a caster's base chance.

The Caster gets increased base chance and the participants
accumulate 2-3? days of study experience towards that ritual.

Backfires can be handled one of two ways: roll separate effects for
each participant or apply a single roll to everyone. I believe I
favor the later of the two (although I can imagine some places where
a bit of Chaos would be appropriate!).

For spells with duration of "concentration", the GURPS rules allow
for a Circle to maintain the spell indefinitely. Once a spell is
actually cast, individual members of a group may come and go thus
allowing fresh members to keep maintaining the spell.

What do you think?

Ted


--- In dqn-list@yahoogroups.com, "dbarrass_2000" <david.barrass@...>
wrote:

>
> The World Generation Supliment sounds like a project for our
> collective wisdom. What do people think?
>
> If we were to do it it would be nice to have an idea about what

would

> have been in it
>
> David
>
> --- In dqn-list@yahoogroups.com, Phil Wright <darkislephil@> wrote:
> >
> > Sorry about the delay.
> >
> > Magic houses in World Gen were essentially guilds. They defined
> benefits and costs for belonging to them, the color and type of

robes

> they might wear, the basic organizational structure, the type of

place

> or building the magic house might be in.
> >
> > Group Magic was as I said performing rituals in groups. Any

ritual

> in a casters college could be performed in a group setting but

there

> were also group-only rituals. There were bonuses for having extra
> assistants participating and also spectators. Participants

received

> minor benefits for taking part in rituals. Participation counted

as

> 2-3 days study towards improving the ritual.
> >
> > Each college had one or two group-only rituals. EE college had
> Sleep at a Distance. Air Magic had Giant Windstorm. Celestials
> summoned Meteor Showers.
> >
> > It's too bad it didn't get polished up and released.
> >
> > tmckelvey77089 <tmckelvey@> wrote: "darkislephil" wrote:
> >
> > >The magic houses aren't anything a DQ GM probably hasn't come

up with

> > >after all this time.
> >
> > >Mana weather and such - if you have Enchanted Wood you have

most of

> > >the info in World Gen already. Just add in a 1-10 Mana rating

for

> > areas and you have most of the "manology" in World Gen.
> >
> > >Group Magic though I think adds something to DQ. The basic

idea is

> > >that both spells and rituals can be done via Group Magic. You

can

> > >have both mage and non-mage participants in these group magic

sessions

> > >with bonuses for increasing cast chances up to certain limits.

Group

> > >spells take 5 minutes. World Gen also added a couple special

rituals

> > >to each college only for group use. (And, yes, World Gen was

done with

> > >at least an early copy of Arcane Wisdom though some parts of

WG have

> > >1st ed DQ references. shrug.)
> >
> > What magic houses are you referring to?
> >
> > I'd be interested in hearing more about the group magic as

well. Also

> > wondering if its similar to the group magic that showed up in

Gurps.

> >
> > Thanks,
> > Ted
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > SPONSORED LINKS
> > Computer role
> playing game Online role

playing

> games Role playing games

online

>
> Massive multiplayer online role playing

games

> Star wars role playing

game

> Wheel of time role playing

game

>
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> >
> >
> > Visit your group "dqn-list" on the web.
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > dqn-list-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> > http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
>

Hi,

It contains an HTML message that will send a 'chain email' to EVERY
group the person belongs to.

I ran into it on one of my groups and now it is trying to propagate to
ALL of my groups.

Sorry about this but I thought I should warn you sine I fell for it
and it seems to be spreading.

Again sorry,

Lance

thx!

I'll fwd this to the Universe group too ^^

- Greg W.

--- In dqn-list@yahoogroups.com, "lofenloc" <lofenloc@...> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> It contains an HTML message that will send a 'chain email' to EVERY
> group the person belongs to.
>
> I ran into it on one of my groups and now it is trying to
propagate to
> ALL of my groups.
>
> Sorry about this but I thought I should warn you sine I fell for it
> and it seems to be spreading.
>
> Again sorry,
>
> Lance
>

lofenloc wrote:

> Hi,
>
> It contains an HTML message that will send a 'chain email' to EVERY
> group the person belongs to.
>
> I ran into it on one of my groups and now it is trying to propagate to
> ALL of my groups.
>
> Sorry about this but I thought I should warn you sine I fell for it
> and it seems to be spreading.
>
> Again sorry,
>
> Lance
>

Maybe you should also tell us which operating systems and email programs
are affected?

Oh wait . . . no need to. We already know.
(Why in heck are people still using IE and OE?)
(And why does nobody ever sue MS for their mess?)

-serge
(Linux Libranet 3.0)

I found this and I am going to try and make it work with a friend who
lives in Kentucky
http://www.battlegroundsgames.com/overview.html

Hello,

I am new to the list and hope not to violate any code of conduct here,
but I have a possibly tentative question.

Are the PDFs of the DQ products by SPI and TSR available somewhere for
download?

- It doesn't matter to me if they're free or if one has to pay for them
like at RPGNow, but since DQ rarely shows up on ebay in Europe,

I am looking for an alternative way to complete my collection. :-)

Just for the record, the book I am most after is *The Enchanted Wood*,
of course... And maybe a good copy of the first book from the 1e box...
Mine is a bit... broken.

:-)

Hoping for your help,

Rafael

lofenloc wrote:

> Maybe you should also tell us which operating systems and email programs
> are affected?
>
> Oh wait . . . no need to. We already know.
> (Why in heck are people still using IE and OE?)

Laziness, default at work, corporate restrictions, pick one - or add your own.

I run Thunderbird, KMeleon....

You can turn off scripting in Outlook, as you can in any Email app - even
effects MAC users, it's a javascript thing.

> (And why does nobody ever sue MS for their mess?)

Stupid 'licensing' agreement when you install?

> -serge
> (Linux Libranet 3.0)

Ran Linux, too many programs that I have to run are only available in Win32
format, kids and wife whined about 'no games', installs (pre-2000) were a
*itch for most things.....

Put me down as "saavy home user"....

I am not actually starting a public group with this, just throwing out a
tool for those of you who wanted to do some online RPGs. It is much
better than the tools we have had at our disposal in the past
JohnC

> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: [DQN-list] Re: For anyone interested in online RPGs...
> From: "Ramon Negron" <elgiem@mindspring.com>
> Date: Wed, June 14, 2006 10:33 am
> To: <dqn-list@yahoogroups.com>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I would be interested in this. If you get a group together please email me

Try the Dragonquestfiles Yahoo group. There's quite a bit of stuff
there, as well as the dq-rules group.

Edi

-----------------

Rafael wrote:

>Hello,
>
>I am new to the list and hope not to violate any code of conduct here,
>but I have a possibly tentative question.
>
>Are the PDFs of the DQ products by SPI and TSR available somewhere for
>download?
>
>- It doesn't matter to me if they're free or if one has to pay for them
>like at RPGNow, but since DQ rarely shows up on ebay in Europe,
>
>I am looking for an alternative way to complete my collection. :-)
>
>Just for the record, the book I am most after is *The Enchanted Wood*,
>of course... And maybe a good copy of the first book from the 1e box...
>Mine is a bit... broken.
>
>:-)
>
>Hoping for your help,
>
>Rafael
>
>
>

I think that is an excellent start. I never got around to looking at
the GURPS magic rules.

Things to consider:

* Max number of participants?
* Diminishing returns for extra participants?
* * Tiered bonuses perhaps.
* * Also sets an effective max participants.
* Is the R10 thing needed?
* * I doubt we had more than a couple mages ever reach r10 with a spell.
* Group Rituals should take longer to perform.
* Extra costs for group rituals?

Phil

--- In dqn-list@yahoogroups.com, "tmckelvey77089" <tmckelvey@...> wrote:
>
> Here's some draft ground rules I came up with for group magic in
> DragonQuest. I based them on Phil's notes and referenced the GURPS
> Ceremonial and Group Magic rules as found in the GURPS Magic book,
> 2nd Edition. I looked at those assuming that Steve Jackson took
> what he developed for DQ World Generation and applied them to GURPS.
>
> Basically, I divided the potential group participants into one of 4
> (four) groups. Each contributes their own modifiers to the caster's
> base chance for a spell or ritual.
>
> Any number of mages can link to cast a spell, IF they ALL know it at
> Rank 10 or higher. They form a casting "Circle". Other participants
> can contribute to a lesser degree.
>
> First is a "Master Assistant". This would be someone who knows the
> spell or ritual at Rank 10 or higher. Second is an "Assistant" who
> knows the spell or ritual but NOT to Rank 10 or higher. Third is
> a "Spectator" who doesn't know the spell or ritual at all. Lastly
> is an "Opposing Spectator".
>
> A Master Assistant will add their MA cast bonus AND the value of
> their rank to the Caster's Base Chance. An Assistant will add Just
> their MA cast bonus. A Spectator will add +1 (they are assumed to
> be functioning as chanters, holding candles, whatever). An Opposing
> Spectator (someone who does NOT have a sincere belief and desire to
> help the caster) subtracts 2 from the caster's base chance.
>
> There is a maximum group bonus of +45 to a caster's base chance.
>
> The Caster gets increased base chance and the participants
> accumulate 2-3? days of study experience towards that ritual.
>
> Backfires can be handled one of two ways: roll separate effects for
> each participant or apply a single roll to everyone. I believe I
> favor the later of the two (although I can imagine some places where
> a bit of Chaos would be appropriate!).
>
> For spells with duration of "concentration", the GURPS rules allow
> for a Circle to maintain the spell indefinitely. Once a spell is
> actually cast, individual members of a group may come and go thus
> allowing fresh members to keep maintaining the spell.
>
> What do you think?
>
> Ted

Hi Edi,

Thank you for the info. I checked the Dragonqiestfiles group,
but could only find the rulebooks for the second edition there - wich is
already far more than I expected. :-)

Still, the adventure modules seem lost... What a shame! But with
Ala-Akabar, I have nice stuff to plant more games, at least for a time.

Thanks again,

...And if anyone stumbles over a way to get *The Enchanted Wood*, please
tell me! :-D

Yours,

Rafael

Hi Phil,

Thanks for the feedback. I'll see if I can address your points one
by one and see what we think...

1) Max number of participants?

The GURPS rules left it pretty much open ended as far as a max # of
participants, which works ok with their magic system. I added the
part about having a maximum group bonus, which effectively limits
how large a group can get.

2) Diminishing returns for extra participants?

I'll give that some thought and see how it could work with the way I
handled #2 above.

3) Is the R10 thing needed?

The GURPS rules had minimum skill requirement with the spell before
you could initiate the circle. I rationalized that by assuming that
you have to be pretty good to be able to cast a spell while
channeling the energies of multiple participants.

4) Group Rituals should take longer to perform.

I'm open to suggestions there. The normal length of rituals varies
so much...

5) Extra costs for group rituals?

Did you mean in terms added material cost or more something else?

On the group-only rituals, did they additional minimum requirements
to perform (minimum participants, materials, etc...)?

Thanks again for the feedback.

Ted




--- In dqn-list@yahoogroups.com, "darkislephil" <darkislephil@...>
wrote:

>
> I think that is an excellent start. I never got around to looking

at

> the GURPS magic rules.
>
> Things to consider:
>
> * Max number of participants?
> * Diminishing returns for extra participants?
> * * Tiered bonuses perhaps.
> * * Also sets an effective max participants.
> * Is the R10 thing needed?
> * * I doubt we had more than a couple mages ever reach r10 with a

spell.

> * Group Rituals should take longer to perform.
> * Extra costs for group rituals?
>
> Phil
>
>
> --- In dqn-list@yahoogroups.com, "tmckelvey77089" <tmckelvey@>

wrote:

> >
> > Here's some draft ground rules I came up with for group magic in
> > DragonQuest. I based them on Phil's notes and referenced the

GURPS

> > Ceremonial and Group Magic rules as found in the GURPS Magic

book,

> > 2nd Edition. I looked at those assuming that Steve Jackson took
> > what he developed for DQ World Generation and applied them to

GURPS.

> >
> > Basically, I divided the potential group participants into one

of 4

> > (four) groups. Each contributes their own modifiers to the

caster's

> > base chance for a spell or ritual.
> >
> > Any number of mages can link to cast a spell, IF they ALL know

it at

> > Rank 10 or higher. They form a casting "Circle". Other

participants

> > can contribute to a lesser degree.
> >
> > First is a "Master Assistant". This would be someone who knows

the

> > spell or ritual at Rank 10 or higher. Second is an "Assistant"

who

> > knows the spell or ritual but NOT to Rank 10 or higher. Third

is

> > a "Spectator" who doesn't know the spell or ritual at all.

Lastly

> > is an "Opposing Spectator".
> >
> > A Master Assistant will add their MA cast bonus AND the value of
> > their rank to the Caster's Base Chance. An Assistant will add

Just

> > their MA cast bonus. A Spectator will add +1 (they are assumed

to

> > be functioning as chanters, holding candles, whatever). An

Opposing

> > Spectator (someone who does NOT have a sincere belief and desire

to

> > help the caster) subtracts 2 from the caster's base chance.
> >
> > There is a maximum group bonus of +45 to a caster's base chance.
> >
> > The Caster gets increased base chance and the participants
> > accumulate 2-3? days of study experience towards that ritual.
> >
> > Backfires can be handled one of two ways: roll separate effects

for

> > each participant or apply a single roll to everyone. I believe

I

> > favor the later of the two (although I can imagine some places

where

> > a bit of Chaos would be appropriate!).
> >
> > For spells with duration of "concentration", the GURPS rules

allow

> > for a Circle to maintain the spell indefinitely. Once a spell

is

> > actually cast, individual members of a group may come and go

thus

> > allowing fresh members to keep maintaining the spell.
> >
> > What do you think?
> >
> > Ted
>

Throwing in my two bits worth . . .

The group leader uses all applicable modifiers
Other members of the group who know the ritual add the MA bonuses and only
+1 per rank
Other Mage members add their MA bonuses
Non-Mage members add 1 (holding candles, chanting, etc.)

Expense should be similar to what Greater Summoners have to spend.

The number that can participate should be limited. For Greater Summonings,
it would be the Lead and five others that each occupy part of the pentacle.

For other College Rituals, limit the number of participats to the Lead's WP.

~Jeffery~

> Hi Phil,
>
> Thanks for the feedback. I'll see if I can address your points one
> by one and see what we think...
>
> 1) Max number of participants?
>
> The GURPS rules left it pretty much open ended as far as a max # of
> participants, which works ok with their magic system. I added the
> part about having a maximum group bonus, which effectively limits
> how large a group can get.
>
> 2) Diminishing returns for extra participants?
>
> I'll give that some thought and see how it could work with the way I
> handled #2 above.
>
> 3) Is the R10 thing needed?
>
> The GURPS rules had minimum skill requirement with the spell before
> you could initiate the circle. I rationalized that by assuming that
> you have to be pretty good to be able to cast a spell while
> channeling the energies of multiple participants.
>
> 4) Group Rituals should take longer to perform.
>
> I'm open to suggestions there. The normal length of rituals varies
> so much...
>
> 5) Extra costs for group rituals?
>
> Did you mean in terms added material cost or more something else?
>
> On the group-only rituals, did they additional minimum requirements
> to perform (minimum participants, materials, etc...)?
>
> Thanks again for the feedback.
>
> Ted
>
>
>
>
> --- In dqn-list@yahoogroups.com, "darkislephil" <darkislephil@...>
> wrote:
>>
>> I think that is an excellent start. I never got around to looking
> at
>> the GURPS magic rules.
>>
>> Things to consider:
>>
>> * Max number of participants?
>> * Diminishing returns for extra participants?
>> * * Tiered bonuses perhaps.
>> * * Also sets an effective max participants.
>> * Is the R10 thing needed?
>> * * I doubt we had more than a couple mages ever reach r10 with a
> spell.
>> * Group Rituals should take longer to perform.
>> * Extra costs for group rituals?
>>
>> Phil
>>
>>
>> --- In dqn-list@yahoogroups.com, "tmckelvey77089" <tmckelvey@>
> wrote:
>> >
>> > Here's some draft ground rules I came up with for group magic in
>> > DragonQuest. I based them on Phil's notes and referenced the
> GURPS
>> > Ceremonial and Group Magic rules as found in the GURPS Magic
> book,
>> > 2nd Edition. I looked at those assuming that Steve Jackson took
>> > what he developed for DQ World Generation and applied them to
> GURPS.
>> >
>> > Basically, I divided the potential group participants into one
> of 4
>> > (four) groups. Each contributes their own modifiers to the
> caster's
>> > base chance for a spell or ritual.
>> >
>> > Any number of mages can link to cast a spell, IF they ALL know
> it at
>> > Rank 10 or higher. They form a casting "Circle". Other
> participants
>> > can contribute to a lesser degree.
>> >
>> > First is a "Master Assistant". This would be someone who knows
> the
>> > spell or ritual at Rank 10 or higher. Second is an "Assistant"
> who
>> > knows the spell or ritual but NOT to Rank 10 or higher. Third
> is
>> > a "Spectator" who doesn't know the spell or ritual at all.
> Lastly
>> > is an "Opposing Spectator".
>> >
>> > A Master Assistant will add their MA cast bonus AND the value of
>> > their rank to the Caster's Base Chance. An Assistant will add
> Just
>> > their MA cast bonus. A Spectator will add +1 (they are assumed
> to
>> > be functioning as chanters, holding candles, whatever). An
> Opposing
>> > Spectator (someone who does NOT have a sincere belief and desire
> to
>> > help the caster) subtracts 2 from the caster's base chance.
>> >
>> > There is a maximum group bonus of +45 to a caster's base chance.
>> >
>> > The Caster gets increased base chance and the participants
>> > accumulate 2-3? days of study experience towards that ritual.
>> >
>> > Backfires can be handled one of two ways: roll separate effects
> for
>> > each participant or apply a single roll to everyone. I believe
> I
>> > favor the later of the two (although I can imagine some places
> where
>> > a bit of Chaos would be appropriate!).
>> >
>> > For spells with duration of "concentration", the GURPS rules
> allow
>> > for a Circle to maintain the spell indefinitely. Once a spell
> is
>> > actually cast, individual members of a group may come and go
> thus
>> > allowing fresh members to keep maintaining the spell.
>> >
>> > What do you think?
>> >
>> > Ted
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Thanks Jeffery,

If I'm reading you right then it sounds like you and I are on the
same page as far as modifiers from different participants.

My take on limiting the number of participants was applying the
maximum allowed bonus to be +45, which effectively limits how many
folks are involved without having to say how many of each type are
allowed or something...was tryin to keep it simple. Does it need to
be further defined? If it were to be capped based on a stat I'd say
either WP or MA could be a good guideline though.

Phil, Any hints on how the draft copy handled this?

I'll take a look at the Greater Summoning costs. Been a while since
I reviewed them.

Ted



--- In dqn-list@yahoogroups.com, "Jeffery K. McGonagill" <igmod@...>
wrote:

>
> Throwing in my two bits worth . . .
>
> The group leader uses all applicable modifiers
> Other members of the group who know the ritual add the MA bonuses

and only

> +1 per rank
> Other Mage members add their MA bonuses
> Non-Mage members add 1 (holding candles, chanting, etc.)
>
> Expense should be similar to what Greater Summoners have to spend.
>
> The number that can participate should be limited. For Greater

Summonings,

> it would be the Lead and five others that each occupy part of the

pentacle.

>
> For other College Rituals, limit the number of participats to the

Lead's WP.

>
> ~Jeffery~
>
>
> > Hi Phil,
> >
> > Thanks for the feedback. I'll see if I can address your points

one

> > by one and see what we think...
> >
> > 1) Max number of participants?
> >
> > The GURPS rules left it pretty much open ended as far as a max #

of

> > participants, which works ok with their magic system. I added

the

> > part about having a maximum group bonus, which effectively limits
> > how large a group can get.
> >
> > 2) Diminishing returns for extra participants?
> >
> > I'll give that some thought and see how it could work with the

way I

> > handled #2 above.
> >
> > 3) Is the R10 thing needed?
> >
> > The GURPS rules had minimum skill requirement with the spell

before

> > you could initiate the circle. I rationalized that by assuming

that

> > you have to be pretty good to be able to cast a spell while
> > channeling the energies of multiple participants.
> >
> > 4) Group Rituals should take longer to perform.
> >
> > I'm open to suggestions there. The normal length of rituals

varies

> > so much...
> >
> > 5) Extra costs for group rituals?
> >
> > Did you mean in terms added material cost or more something else?
> >
> > On the group-only rituals, did they additional minimum

requirements

> > to perform (minimum participants, materials, etc...)?
> >
> > Thanks again for the feedback.
> >
> > Ted
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In dqn-list@yahoogroups.com, "darkislephil" <darkislephil@>
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> I think that is an excellent start. I never got around to

looking

> > at
> >> the GURPS magic rules.
> >>
> >> Things to consider:
> >>
> >> * Max number of participants?
> >> * Diminishing returns for extra participants?
> >> * * Tiered bonuses perhaps.
> >> * * Also sets an effective max participants.
> >> * Is the R10 thing needed?
> >> * * I doubt we had more than a couple mages ever reach r10 with

a

> > spell.
> >> * Group Rituals should take longer to perform.
> >> * Extra costs for group rituals?
> >>
> >> Phil
> >>
> >>
> >> --- In dqn-list@yahoogroups.com, "tmckelvey77089" <tmckelvey@>
> > wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Here's some draft ground rules I came up with for group magic

in

> >> > DragonQuest. I based them on Phil's notes and referenced the
> > GURPS
> >> > Ceremonial and Group Magic rules as found in the GURPS Magic
> > book,
> >> > 2nd Edition. I looked at those assuming that Steve Jackson

took

> >> > what he developed for DQ World Generation and applied them to
> > GURPS.
> >> >
> >> > Basically, I divided the potential group participants into one
> > of 4
> >> > (four) groups. Each contributes their own modifiers to the
> > caster's
> >> > base chance for a spell or ritual.
> >> >
> >> > Any number of mages can link to cast a spell, IF they ALL know
> > it at
> >> > Rank 10 or higher. They form a casting "Circle". Other
> > participants
> >> > can contribute to a lesser degree.
> >> >
> >> > First is a "Master Assistant". This would be someone who

knows

> > the
> >> > spell or ritual at Rank 10 or higher. Second is

an "Assistant"

> > who
> >> > knows the spell or ritual but NOT to Rank 10 or higher. Third
> > is
> >> > a "Spectator" who doesn't know the spell or ritual at all.
> > Lastly
> >> > is an "Opposing Spectator".
> >> >
> >> > A Master Assistant will add their MA cast bonus AND the value

of

> >> > their rank to the Caster's Base Chance. An Assistant will add
> > Just
> >> > their MA cast bonus. A Spectator will add +1 (they are

assumed

> > to
> >> > be functioning as chanters, holding candles, whatever). An
> > Opposing
> >> > Spectator (someone who does NOT have a sincere belief and

desire

> > to
> >> > help the caster) subtracts 2 from the caster's base chance.
> >> >
> >> > There is a maximum group bonus of +45 to a caster's base

chance.

> >> >
> >> > The Caster gets increased base chance and the participants
> >> > accumulate 2-3? days of study experience towards that ritual.
> >> >
> >> > Backfires can be handled one of two ways: roll separate

effects

> > for
> >> > each participant or apply a single roll to everyone. I

believe

> > I
> >> > favor the later of the two (although I can imagine some places
> > where
> >> > a bit of Chaos would be appropriate!).
> >> >
> >> > For spells with duration of "concentration", the GURPS rules
> > allow
> >> > for a Circle to maintain the spell indefinitely. Once a spell
> > is
> >> > actually cast, individual members of a group may come and go
> > thus
> >> > allowing fresh members to keep maintaining the spell.
> >> >
> >> > What do you think?
> >> >
> >> > Ted
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

I want to thank you for doing this work. I wish I had more time to
participate.
Thanks, again.

Deven

tmckelvey77089 wrote:

> Thanks Jeffery,
>
> If I'm reading you right then it sounds like you and I are on the
> same page as far as modifiers from different participants.
>
> My take on limiting the number of participants was applying the
> maximum allowed bonus to be +45, which effectively limits how many
> folks are involved without having to say how many of each type are
> allowed or something...was tryin to keep it simple. Does it need to
> be further defined? If it were to be capped based on a stat I'd say
> either WP or MA could be a good guideline though.
>
> Phil, Any hints on how the draft copy handled this?
>
> I'll take a look at the Greater Summoning costs. Been a while since
> I reviewed them.
>
> Ted
>
>
>
> --- In dqn-list@yahoogroups.com, "Jeffery K. McGonagill" <igmod@...>
> wrote:
>
>> Throwing in my two bits worth . . .
>>
>> The group leader uses all applicable modifiers
>> Other members of the group who know the ritual add the MA bonuses
>>
> and only
>
>> +1 per rank
>> Other Mage members add their MA bonuses
>> Non-Mage members add 1 (holding candles, chanting, etc.)
>>
>> Expense should be similar to what Greater Summoners have to spend.
>>
>> The number that can participate should be limited. For Greater
>>
> Summonings,
>
>> it would be the Lead and five others that each occupy part of the
>>
> pentacle.
>
>> For other College Rituals, limit the number of participats to the
>>
> Lead's WP.
>
>> ~Jeffery~
>>
>>
>>
>>> Hi Phil,
>>>
>>> Thanks for the feedback. I'll see if I can address your points
>>>
> one
>
>>> by one and see what we think...
>>>
>>> 1) Max number of participants?
>>>
>>> The GURPS rules left it pretty much open ended as far as a max #
>>>
> of
>
>>> participants, which works ok with their magic system. I added
>>>
> the
>
>>> part about having a maximum group bonus, which effectively limits
>>> how large a group can get.
>>>
>>> 2) Diminishing returns for extra participants?
>>>
>>> I'll give that some thought and see how it could work with the
>>>
> way I
>
>>> handled #2 above.
>>>
>>> 3) Is the R10 thing needed?
>>>
>>> The GURPS rules had minimum skill requirement with the spell
>>>
> before
>
>>> you could initiate the circle. I rationalized that by assuming
>>>
> that
>
>>> you have to be pretty good to be able to cast a spell while
>>> channeling the energies of multiple participants.
>>>
>>> 4) Group Rituals should take longer to perform.
>>>
>>> I'm open to suggestions there. The normal length of rituals
>>>
> varies
>
>>> so much...
>>>
>>> 5) Extra costs for group rituals?
>>>
>>> Did you mean in terms added material cost or more something else?
>>>
>>> On the group-only rituals, did they additional minimum
>>>
> requirements
>
>>> to perform (minimum participants, materials, etc...)?
>>>
>>> Thanks again for the feedback.
>>>
>>> Ted
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --- In dqn-list@yahoogroups.com, "darkislephil" <darkislephil@>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I think that is an excellent start. I never got around to
>>>>
> looking
>
>>> at
>>>
>>>> the GURPS magic rules.
>>>>
>>>> Things to consider:
>>>>
>>>> * Max number of participants?
>>>> * Diminishing returns for extra participants?
>>>> * * Tiered bonuses perhaps.
>>>> * * Also sets an effective max participants.
>>>> * Is the R10 thing needed?
>>>> * * I doubt we had more than a couple mages ever reach r10 with
>>>>
> a
>
>>> spell.
>>>
>>>> * Group Rituals should take longer to perform.
>>>> * Extra costs for group rituals?
>>>>
>>>> Phil
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --- In dqn-list@yahoogroups.com, "tmckelvey77089" <tmckelvey@>
>>>>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Here's some draft ground rules I came up with for group magic
>>>>>
> in
>
>>>>> DragonQuest. I based them on Phil's notes and referenced the
>>>>>
>>> GURPS
>>>
>>>>> Ceremonial and Group Magic rules as found in the GURPS Magic
>>>>>
>>> book,
>>>
>>>>> 2nd Edition. I looked at those assuming that Steve Jackson
>>>>>
> took
>
>>>>> what he developed for DQ World Generation and applied them to
>>>>>
>>> GURPS.
>>>
>>>>> Basically, I divided the potential group participants into one
>>>>>
>>> of 4
>>>
>>>>> (four) groups. Each contributes their own modifiers to the
>>>>>
>>> caster's
>>>
>>>>> base chance for a spell or ritual.
>>>>>
>>>>> Any number of mages can link to cast a spell, IF they ALL know
>>>>>
>>> it at
>>>
>>>>> Rank 10 or higher. They form a casting "Circle". Other
>>>>>
>>> participants
>>>
>>>>> can contribute to a lesser degree.
>>>>>
>>>>> First is a "Master Assistant". This would be someone who
>>>>>
> knows
>
>>> the
>>>
>>>>> spell or ritual at Rank 10 or higher. Second is
>>>>>
> an "Assistant"
>
>>> who
>>>
>>>>> knows the spell or ritual but NOT to Rank 10 or higher. Third
>>>>>
>>> is
>>>
>>>>> a "Spectator" who doesn't know the spell or ritual at all.
>>>>>
>>> Lastly
>>>
>>>>> is an "Opposing Spectator".
>>>>>
>>>>> A Master Assistant will add their MA cast bonus AND the value
>>>>>
> of
>
>>>>> their rank to the Caster's Base Chance. An Assistant will add
>>>>>
>>> Just
>>>
>>>>> their MA cast bonus. A Spectator will add +1 (they are
>>>>>
> assumed
>
>>> to
>>>
>>>>> be functioning as chanters, holding candles, whatever). An
>>>>>
>>> Opposing
>>>
>>>>> Spectator (someone who does NOT have a sincere belief and
>>>>>
> desire
>
>>> to
>>>
>>>>> help the caster) subtracts 2 from the caster's base chance.
>>>>>
>>>>> There is a maximum group bonus of +45 to a caster's base
>>>>>
> chance.
>
>>>>> The Caster gets increased base chance and the participants
>>>>> accumulate 2-3? days of study experience towards that ritual.
>>>>>
>>>>> Backfires can be handled one of two ways: roll separate
>>>>>
> effects
>
>>> for
>>>
>>>>> each participant or apply a single roll to everyone. I
>>>>>
> believe
>
>>> I
>>>
>>>>> favor the later of the two (although I can imagine some places
>>>>>
>>> where
>>>
>>>>> a bit of Chaos would be appropriate!).
>>>>>
>>>>> For spells with duration of "concentration", the GURPS rules
>>>>>
>>> allow
>>>
>>>>> for a Circle to maintain the spell indefinitely. Once a spell
>>>>>
>>> is
>>>
>>>>> actually cast, individual members of a group may come and go
>>>>>
>>> thus
>>>
>>>>> allowing fresh members to keep maintaining the spell.
>>>>>
>>>>> What do you think?
>>>>>
>>>>> Ted
>>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Ted,

For spell magic cast in groups the draft for World Gen gave a bonus
for the first, half that for the second, and half again for the third
through fifth.

For ritual magic the bonus extended to the sixth through tenth
assistants with half the bonus of assistants three to five.

Assistants are mages.

Rituals also allow for spectators which contributed only 1% for every
10 up to 100 total spectators.

Phil

--- In dqn-list@yahoogroups.com, "tmckelvey77089" <tmckelvey@...> wrote:
>
> Thanks Jeffery,
>
> If I'm reading you right then it sounds like you and I are on the
> same page as far as modifiers from different participants.
>
> My take on limiting the number of participants was applying the
> maximum allowed bonus to be +45, which effectively limits how many
> folks are involved without having to say how many of each type are
> allowed or something...was tryin to keep it simple. Does it need to
> be further defined? If it were to be capped based on a stat I'd say
> either WP or MA could be a good guideline though.
>
> Phil, Any hints on how the draft copy handled this?
>
> I'll take a look at the Greater Summoning costs. Been a while since
> I reviewed them.
>
> Ted
>
>
>
> --- In dqn-list@yahoogroups.com, "Jeffery K. McGonagill" <igmod@>
> wrote:
> >
> > Throwing in my two bits worth . . .
> >
> > The group leader uses all applicable modifiers
> > Other members of the group who know the ritual add the MA bonuses
> and only
> > +1 per rank
> > Other Mage members add their MA bonuses
> > Non-Mage members add 1 (holding candles, chanting, etc.)
> >
> > Expense should be similar to what Greater Summoners have to spend.
> >
> > The number that can participate should be limited. For Greater
> Summonings,
> > it would be the Lead and five others that each occupy part of the
> pentacle.
> >
> > For other College Rituals, limit the number of participats to the
> Lead's WP.
> >
> > ~Jeffery~
> >
> >
> > > Hi Phil,
> > >
> > > Thanks for the feedback. I'll see if I can address your points
> one
> > > by one and see what we think...
> > >
> > > 1) Max number of participants?
> > >
> > > The GURPS rules left it pretty much open ended as far as a max #
> of
> > > participants, which works ok with their magic system. I added
> the
> > > part about having a maximum group bonus, which effectively limits
> > > how large a group can get.
> > >
> > > 2) Diminishing returns for extra participants?
> > >
> > > I'll give that some thought and see how it could work with the
> way I
> > > handled #2 above.
> > >
> > > 3) Is the R10 thing needed?
> > >
> > > The GURPS rules had minimum skill requirement with the spell
> before
> > > you could initiate the circle. I rationalized that by assuming
> that
> > > you have to be pretty good to be able to cast a spell while
> > > channeling the energies of multiple participants.
> > >
> > > 4) Group Rituals should take longer to perform.
> > >
> > > I'm open to suggestions there. The normal length of rituals
> varies
> > > so much...
> > >
> > > 5) Extra costs for group rituals?
> > >
> > > Did you mean in terms added material cost or more something else?
> > >
> > > On the group-only rituals, did they additional minimum
> requirements
> > > to perform (minimum participants, materials, etc...)?
> > >
> > > Thanks again for the feedback.
> > >
> > > Ted
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In dqn-list@yahoogroups.com, "darkislephil" <darkislephil@>
> > > wrote:
> > >>
> > >> I think that is an excellent start. I never got around to
> looking
> > > at
> > >> the GURPS magic rules.
> > >>
> > >> Things to consider:
> > >>
> > >> * Max number of participants?
> > >> * Diminishing returns for extra participants?
> > >> * * Tiered bonuses perhaps.
> > >> * * Also sets an effective max participants.
> > >> * Is the R10 thing needed?
> > >> * * I doubt we had more than a couple mages ever reach r10 with
> a
> > > spell.
> > >> * Group Rituals should take longer to perform.
> > >> * Extra costs for group rituals?
> > >>
> > >> Phil
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> --- In dqn-list@yahoogroups.com, "tmckelvey77089" <tmckelvey@>
> > > wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> > Here's some draft ground rules I came up with for group magic
> in
> > >> > DragonQuest. I based them on Phil's notes and referenced the
> > > GURPS
> > >> > Ceremonial and Group Magic rules as found in the GURPS Magic
> > > book,
> > >> > 2nd Edition. I looked at those assuming that Steve Jackson
> took
> > >> > what he developed for DQ World Generation and applied them to
> > > GURPS.
> > >> >
> > >> > Basically, I divided the potential group participants into one
> > > of 4
> > >> > (four) groups. Each contributes their own modifiers to the
> > > caster's
> > >> > base chance for a spell or ritual.
> > >> >
> > >> > Any number of mages can link to cast a spell, IF they ALL know
> > > it at
> > >> > Rank 10 or higher. They form a casting "Circle". Other
> > > participants
> > >> > can contribute to a lesser degree.
> > >> >
> > >> > First is a "Master Assistant". This would be someone who
> knows
> > > the
> > >> > spell or ritual at Rank 10 or higher. Second is
> an "Assistant"
> > > who
> > >> > knows the spell or ritual but NOT to Rank 10 or higher. Third
> > > is
> > >> > a "Spectator" who doesn't know the spell or ritual at all.
> > > Lastly
> > >> > is an "Opposing Spectator".
> > >> >
> > >> > A Master Assistant will add their MA cast bonus AND the value
> of
> > >> > their rank to the Caster's Base Chance. An Assistant will add
> > > Just
> > >> > their MA cast bonus. A Spectator will add +1 (they are
> assumed
> > > to
> > >> > be functioning as chanters, holding candles, whatever). An
> > > Opposing
> > >> > Spectator (someone who does NOT have a sincere belief and
> desire
> > > to
> > >> > help the caster) subtracts 2 from the caster's base chance.
> > >> >
> > >> > There is a maximum group bonus of +45 to a caster's base
> chance.
> > >> >
> > >> > The Caster gets increased base chance and the participants
> > >> > accumulate 2-3? days of study experience towards that ritual.
> > >> >
> > >> > Backfires can be handled one of two ways: roll separate
> effects
> > > for
> > >> > each participant or apply a single roll to everyone. I
> believe
> > > I
> > >> > favor the later of the two (although I can imagine some places
> > > where
> > >> > a bit of Chaos would be appropriate!).
> > >> >
> > >> > For spells with duration of "concentration", the GURPS rules
> > > allow
> > >> > for a Circle to maintain the spell indefinitely. Once a spell
> > > is
> > >> > actually cast, individual members of a group may come and go
> > > thus
> > >> > allowing fresh members to keep maintaining the spell.
> > >> >
> > >> > What do you think?
> > >> >
> > >> > Ted
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>

Ted,

Yeah setting a max bonus has the same result as limiting participants.

I figure that with magic rituals, as in most things, there are going
to be diminishing returns from throwing more people at something.

The minimum rank thing is an interesting thought. Of course in most of
our campaigns characters almost never reach R10 in any but the
cheapest, xp wise, of spells.

As for increased time, WG draft suggested +25% for rituals and fixing
spells at 1 hour. I think something like that is reasonable.

I would expect the cost of a ritual to increase with each participant
added to some degree. Lots of spectators means more incense and/or
conciousness altering chemicals.

WG draft didn't set minimums for group ritual. You just didn't have a
group until you had at least two.

Phil

--- In dqn-list@yahoogroups.com, "tmckelvey77089" <tmckelvey@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Phil,
>
> Thanks for the feedback. I'll see if I can address your points one
> by one and see what we think...
>
> 1) Max number of participants?
>
> The GURPS rules left it pretty much open ended as far as a max # of
> participants, which works ok with their magic system. I added the
> part about having a maximum group bonus, which effectively limits
> how large a group can get.
>
> 2) Diminishing returns for extra participants?
>
> I'll give that some thought and see how it could work with the way I
> handled #2 above.
>
> 3) Is the R10 thing needed?
>
> The GURPS rules had minimum skill requirement with the spell before
> you could initiate the circle. I rationalized that by assuming that
> you have to be pretty good to be able to cast a spell while
> channeling the energies of multiple participants.
>
> 4) Group Rituals should take longer to perform.
>
> I'm open to suggestions there. The normal length of rituals varies
> so much...
>
> 5) Extra costs for group rituals?
>
> Did you mean in terms added material cost or more something else?
>
> On the group-only rituals, did they additional minimum requirements
> to perform (minimum participants, materials, etc...)?
>
> Thanks again for the feedback.
>
> Ted
>
>
>
>
> --- In dqn-list@yahoogroups.com, "darkislephil" <darkislephil@>
> wrote:
> >
> > I think that is an excellent start. I never got around to looking
> at
> > the GURPS magic rules.
> >
> > Things to consider:
> >
> > * Max number of participants?
> > * Diminishing returns for extra participants?
> > * * Tiered bonuses perhaps.
> > * * Also sets an effective max participants.
> > * Is the R10 thing needed?
> > * * I doubt we had more than a couple mages ever reach r10 with a
> spell.
> > * Group Rituals should take longer to perform.
> > * Extra costs for group rituals?
> >
> > Phil
> >
> >
> > --- In dqn-list@yahoogroups.com, "tmckelvey77089" <tmckelvey@>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > Here's some draft ground rules I came up with for group magic in
> > > DragonQuest. I based them on Phil's notes and referenced the
> GURPS
> > > Ceremonial and Group Magic rules as found in the GURPS Magic
> book,
> > > 2nd Edition. I looked at those assuming that Steve Jackson took
> > > what he developed for DQ World Generation and applied them to
> GURPS.
> > >
> > > Basically, I divided the potential group participants into one
> of 4
> > > (four) groups. Each contributes their own modifiers to the
> caster's
> > > base chance for a spell or ritual.
> > >
> > > Any number of mages can link to cast a spell, IF they ALL know
> it at
> > > Rank 10 or higher. They form a casting "Circle". Other
> participants
> > > can contribute to a lesser degree.
> > >
> > > First is a "Master Assistant". This would be someone who knows
> the
> > > spell or ritual at Rank 10 or higher. Second is an "Assistant"
> who
> > > knows the spell or ritual but NOT to Rank 10 or higher. Third
> is
> > > a "Spectator" who doesn't know the spell or ritual at all.
> Lastly
> > > is an "Opposing Spectator".
> > >
> > > A Master Assistant will add their MA cast bonus AND the value of
> > > their rank to the Caster's Base Chance. An Assistant will add
> Just
> > > their MA cast bonus. A Spectator will add +1 (they are assumed
> to
> > > be functioning as chanters, holding candles, whatever). An
> Opposing
> > > Spectator (someone who does NOT have a sincere belief and desire
> to
> > > help the caster) subtracts 2 from the caster's base chance.
> > >
> > > There is a maximum group bonus of +45 to a caster's base chance.
> > >
> > > The Caster gets increased base chance and the participants
> > > accumulate 2-3? days of study experience towards that ritual.
> > >
> > > Backfires can be handled one of two ways: roll separate effects
> for
> > > each participant or apply a single roll to everyone. I believe
> I
> > > favor the later of the two (although I can imagine some places
> where
> > > a bit of Chaos would be appropriate!).
> > >
> > > For spells with duration of "concentration", the GURPS rules
> allow
> > > for a Circle to maintain the spell indefinitely. Once a spell
> is
> > > actually cast, individual members of a group may come and go
> thus
> > > allowing fresh members to keep maintaining the spell.
> > >
> > > What do you think?
> > >
> > > Ted
> >
>

I've been meaning to get in on this discussion, but IRL has been
keeping me busy.

I have a couple of quick points to add to the discussion, and
hopefully I'm not repeating what someone else has already added:

1. Make the min rank for doing Group Magic Rank 6. This corresponds
with other DQ Magic rules (such as MA requirement).

2. Use spell Rank as the determinant for maximum number of participants.

> 1) Max number of participants?
>
> The GURPS rules left it pretty much open ended as far as a max # of
>

--- In dqn-list@yahoogroups.com, "rthorm" <rthorm@...> wrote:

> 1. Make the min rank for doing Group Magic Rank 6. This corresponds
> with other DQ Magic rules (such as MA requirement).

I'm becoming more comfortable with the notion of having a minimum rank
requirement for doing Group Magic. I'm not following you though on
where R6 correlates with existing DQ rules.

I'd be tempted to go with something closer to R4 but then our
campaigns have always been very low power compared to many other DQ
campaigns.

> 2. Use spell Rank as the determinant for maximum number of

participants.

I'd go with that but would still want to decrease the bonuses every
few participants.

--- In dqn-list@yahoogroups.com, "darkislephil" <darkislephil@...> wrote:

>
> --- In dqn-list@yahoogroups.com, "rthorm" <rthorm@> wrote:
> > 1. Make the min rank for doing Group Magic Rank 6. This corresponds
> > with other DQ Magic rules (such as MA requirement).
>
> I'm becoming more comfortable with the notion of having a minimum rank
> requirement for doing Group Magic. I'm not following you though on
> where R6 correlates with existing DQ rules.

Rank 6 is the point at which an adept has "mastered" the spell and it
no longer counts against their MA limit (see [34.6]).

Even in my long-running campaigns, there have been very few spells
learned to Rank 10, so I agree with lowering the required Rank. Rank
6 seemed like it was still comfortably high, so that you had to
account for some level of ability in order to do it as Group Magic,
but not so high as to be out of reach.

Very few spells to Rk 10? I remember one character who spent practically
every EP on Wall of Fire, getting it to Rk 20.

~Jeffery~

> --- In dqn-list@yahoogroups.com, "darkislephil" <darkislephil@...> wrote:
>>
>> --- In dqn-list@yahoogroups.com, "rthorm" <rthorm@> wrote:
>> > 1. Make the min rank for doing Group Magic Rank 6. This corresponds
>> > with other DQ Magic rules (such as MA requirement).
>>
>> I'm becoming more comfortable with the notion of having a minimum rank
>> requirement for doing Group Magic. I'm not following you though on
>> where R6 correlates with existing DQ rules.
>
> Rank 6 is the point at which an adept has "mastered" the spell and it
> no longer counts against their MA limit (see [34.6]).
>
> Even in my long-running campaigns, there have been very few spells
> learned to Rank 10, so I agree with lowering the required Rank. Rank
> 6 seemed like it was still comfortably high, so that you had to
> account for some level of ability in order to do it as Group Magic,
> but not so high as to be out of reach.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>