Messages in dqn-list group. Page 44 of 80.
Group: dqn-list Message: 2158 From: darkislephil Date: 6/18/2005
Subject: Re: Anyone going to Origins in Columbus?
Group: dqn-list Message: 2159 From: darkislephil Date: 6/18/2005
Subject: [6.3] Experience modifiers
Group: dqn-list Message: 2160 From: gmartinez@medioambiente.gov.ar Date: 6/18/2005
Subject: Re: [6.3] Experience modifiers
Group: dqn-list Message: 2161 From: darkislephil Date: 6/18/2005
Subject: Re: [6.3] Experience modifiers
Group: dqn-list Message: 2162 From: Mandos Mitchinson Date: 6/18/2005
Subject: Re: [6.3] Experience modifiers
Group: dqn-list Message: 2163 From: D. Cameron King Date: 6/19/2005
Subject: Re: [6.3] Experience modifiers
Group: dqn-list Message: 2164 From: darkislephil Date: 6/19/2005
Subject: Re: [6.3] Experience modifiers
Group: dqn-list Message: 2165 From: darkislephil Date: 6/19/2005
Subject: Re: [6.3] Experience modifiers
Group: dqn-list Message: 2166 From: Chris Klug Date: 6/19/2005
Subject: Re: Digest Number 399
Group: dqn-list Message: 2167 From: darkislephil Date: 6/19/2005
Subject: Re: Digest Number 399
Group: dqn-list Message: 2168 From: Jeffery K. McGonagill Date: 6/19/2005
Subject: Re: [6.3] Experience modifiers
Group: dqn-list Message: 2169 From: D. Cameron King Date: 6/19/2005
Subject: Re: Digest Number 399
Group: dqn-list Message: 2170 From: darkislephil Date: 6/20/2005
Subject: Humans vs other races
Group: dqn-list Message: 2171 From: darkislephil Date: 6/20/2005
Subject: Re: Digest Number 399
Group: dqn-list Message: 2172 From: rthorm Date: 6/20/2005
Subject: Re: [6.3] Experience modifiers
Group: dqn-list Message: 2173 From: dq@johncorey.com Date: 6/20/2005
Subject: Re: [6.3] Experience modifiers
Group: dqn-list Message: 2175 From: Chris Klug Date: 6/20/2005
Subject: Re: Digest Number 400
Group: dqn-list Message: 2176 From: Arturo Algueiro Melo Date: 6/20/2005
Subject: Re: [6.3] Experience modifiers
Group: dqn-list Message: 2177 From: D. Cameron King Date: 6/20/2005
Subject: Re: Humans vs other races
Group: dqn-list Message: 2178 From: D. Cameron King Date: 6/20/2005
Subject: Re: Digest Number 399
Group: dqn-list Message: 2179 From: darkislephil Date: 6/20/2005
Subject: Re: Humans vs other races
Group: dqn-list Message: 2180 From: igmod@comcast.net Date: 6/21/2005
Subject: Re: Humans vs other races
Group: dqn-list Message: 2181 From: Thomas Barnfield Date: 6/21/2005
Subject: Re: [6.3] Experience modifiers
Group: dqn-list Message: 2182 From: Davis, John R Date: 6/29/2005
Subject: New Dragonquest Campaign
Group: dqn-list Message: 2183 From: Jason Honhera Date: 6/29/2005
Subject: Re: New Dragonquest Campaign
Group: dqn-list Message: 2184 From: Stephen Miller Date: 7/19/2005
Subject: Is this thing on?
Group: dqn-list Message: 2185 From: Jason Honhera Date: 7/19/2005
Subject: Re: Is this thing on?
Group: dqn-list Message: 2186 From: rthorm Date: 7/19/2005
Subject: Re: Is this thing on?
Group: dqn-list Message: 2187 From: Stephen Miller Date: 7/19/2005
Subject: Re: Humans vs other races
Group: dqn-list Message: 2188 From: Donald Hawthorne Date: 7/19/2005
Subject: Re: Digest Number 404
Group: dqn-list Message: 2189 From: dbarrass_2000 Date: 7/20/2005
Subject: Re: Is this thing on?
Group: dqn-list Message: 2190 From: Stephen Miller Date: 7/20/2005
Subject: Answering some of Chris Klug's questions
Group: dqn-list Message: 2191 From: Stephen Miller Date: 7/21/2005
Subject: Player Races
Group: dqn-list Message: 2192 From: J. K. Hoffman Date: 7/21/2005
Subject: Re: Player Races
Group: dqn-list Message: 2193 From: Stephen Miller Date: 7/21/2005
Subject: Re: Player Races
Group: dqn-list Message: 2194 From: Coyote Moon Date: 7/21/2005
Subject: Re: Player Races
Group: dqn-list Message: 2195 From: J. K. Hoffman Date: 7/21/2005
Subject: Re: Player Races
Group: dqn-list Message: 2196 From: D. Cameron King Date: 7/21/2005
Subject: Re: Player Races
Group: dqn-list Message: 2197 From: Jason Honhera Date: 7/21/2005
Subject: Re: Player Races
Group: dqn-list Message: 2198 From: J. K. Hoffman Date: 7/21/2005
Subject: Re: Player Races
Group: dqn-list Message: 2199 From: Stephen Miller Date: 7/22/2005
Subject: Re: Player Races
Group: dqn-list Message: 2200 From: Stephen Miller Date: 7/22/2005
Subject: Gnomes as PCs
Group: dqn-list Message: 2201 From: J. Corey Date: 7/23/2005
Subject: Re: Player Races
Group: dqn-list Message: 2202 From: J. Corey Date: 7/23/2005
Subject: Re: Player Races
Group: dqn-list Message: 2203 From: Jeffery K. McGonagill Date: 7/23/2005
Subject: Re: Player Races
Group: dqn-list Message: 2204 From: Esko Halttunen Date: 7/24/2005
Subject: Re: Player Races etc
Group: dqn-list Message: 2205 From: Arturo Algueiro Melo Date: 7/25/2005
Subject: Re: Player r
Group: dqn-list Message: 2206 From: Arturo Algueiro Melo Date: 7/25/2005
Subject: Re: Player
Group: dqn-list Message: 2207 From: Arturo Algueiro Melo Date: 7/25/2005
Subject: Re: Player Races and Gnomes
Group: dqn-list Message: 2208 From: Esko Halttunen Date: 7/25/2005
Subject: Re: Player Races and Gnomes


Group: dqn-list Message: 2158 From: darkislephil Date: 6/18/2005
Subject: Re: Anyone going to Origins in Columbus?
--- In dqn-list@yahoogroups.com, "Deven" <deven@b...> wrote:
> I'll be heading to the Origins gaming convention in Columbus, Ohio
at the
> end of the month, and was wondering if anyone else on this list was
going.
> There are some DQ sessions being run by Vern Overholt.

That would be fun. Haven't been to an Origins in almost 20 years though.

Phil
Group: dqn-list Message: 2159 From: darkislephil Date: 6/18/2005
Subject: [6.3] Experience modifiers
Under [6.3] you have a table of experience multipliers for the various
races. The relevant paragraph is:

"When a character gains proficiency in an
ability, it is represented in game terms by his
player expending Experience Points. The cost,
in terms of Experience Points, to advance in any
one ability is affected by the character's race.
Multiply the cost for any advancement in one
ability (see the Experience Cost Chart, 87.7) by
the Race Multiplier."

I've always assumed that multiplier applied to any skill or ability
that you raise via experience points. However on several occasions
over the years questions have been raised because of the use of the
odd phrase in two sentences: "...in any one ability...". (Side note:
just noticed that the Exp Cost Chart is actually 87.8. Typo in the
Bantam rules.) Because of that players have suggested it was perhaps
meant to be applied to one ability (obviously a bad idea) or "class"
of abilities like stats, skills or spells. I think it was just more
of the overly formal writing style used throughout the rules.

How about y'all? Anyone ever question this rule or the multipliers?

(Recently started running a campaign with some new players which tends
to cause you to actually look at the rules instead of just going off
of memory.)

Phil
Group: dqn-list Message: 2160 From: gmartinez@medioambiente.gov.ar Date: 6/18/2005
Subject: Re: [6.3] Experience modifiers
We realy never questined the race's multipliers just because the advantages you
have with anything different than a Human. Did you considerate that?

Not just normaly because is easier to arrve to adventure or Hero (We count Speak
and Read in the 8 Lv. 8 rk to be hero - you start with your race's skills, plus
common. Depending your started background, allways)), instead many "special
prices" you can found on skill, just to give you an example.

If you want to paly an elf, pay for it...!!!

Human is for free...!!!

Regards.

Gabriel.

Mensaje citado por darkislephil <darkislephil@yahoo.com>:

>
>
>
>
> Under [6.3] you have a table of experience multipliers for the various
>
> races.  The relevant paragraph is:
>
>
>
> "When a character gains proficiency in an
>
> ability, it is represented in game terms by his
>
> player expending Experience Points. The cost,
>
> in terms of Experience Points, to advance in any
>
> one ability is affected by the character's race.
>
> Multiply the cost for any advancement in one
>
> ability (see the Experience Cost Chart, 87.7) by
>
> the Race Multiplier."
>
>
>
> I've always assumed that multiplier applied to any skill or ability
>
> that you raise via experience points.  However on several occasions
>
> over the years questions have been raised because of the use of the
>
> odd phrase in two sentences: "...in any one ability...".  (Side note:
>
> just noticed that the Exp Cost Chart is actually 87.8. Typo in the
>
> Bantam rules.)  Because of that players have suggested it was perhaps
>
> meant to be applied to one ability (obviously a bad idea) or "class"
>
> of abilities like stats, skills or spells.  I think it was just more
>
> of the overly formal writing style used throughout the rules.
>
>
>
> How about y'all?  Anyone ever question this rule or the multipliers?
>
>
>
> (Recently started running a campaign with some new players which tends
>
> to cause you to actually look at the rules instead of just going off
>
> of memory.)
>
>
>
>    Phil
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
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>  
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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Group: dqn-list Message: 2161 From: darkislephil Date: 6/18/2005
Subject: Re: [6.3] Experience modifiers
--- In dqn-list@yahoogroups.com, "" <gmartinez@m...> wrote:
> We realy never questined the race's multipliers just because
> the advantages you have with anything different than a Human.
> Did you considerate that?

I believe you misunderstood the point. I wasn't questioning whether
or not the Exp. Multiplier was justified or not. Just whether or not
others had seen it questioned on the basis of the poorly phrased
description.

I can understand why it might be questioned. If someone says to you,
"you can have any one sugar-coated turkel for free." The normal
reading of that is to assume you can get one turkel for free but not
more than that. However I think the intent of the rule was that all
abilities would have that multiplier applied. But in the 20+ years I
have been playing DQ the question has arisen a couple of times and by
new players just looking over the rules to determine if they want to
try a different race or not.

> Not just normaly because is easier to arrve to adventure or Hero
> (We count Speak and Read in the 8 Lv. 8 rk to be hero - you
> start with your race's skills, plus common. Depending your
> started background, allways)),...

That would be counter to the rules but our esteemed group member Chris
Klug did at one time suggest that Read/Write should count toward the 8
skills at rank 8 or 8 at 4 totals for determining Hero or Adventurer
status.

Section 49 is pretty explicit about starting language skills.

"Every beginning player character can speak
Common (see 49.6). If the character is nonhuman,
they will also speak their racial
language or dialect. A human or shape-changer
character can read and write in Common, a skill
other non-human characters must acquire."

In our campaigns we only counted one of the free language skills
towards earning Adventurer or Hero status. If a character of another
race wished to Read/Write they had to pay for it with XP.

Obviously if your campaign uses a more extensive background generation
than your starting skills may be different.
Group: dqn-list Message: 2162 From: Mandos Mitchinson Date: 6/18/2005
Subject: Re: [6.3] Experience modifiers
> How about y'all? Anyone ever question this rule or the multipliers?

In our campaign the only query on this is whether it should still be there
after 10 or 12 years of playing. Because we have such a large group and
constant games (as well as a slightly different EP system) the amounts of EP
you can spend through this rule are massive. One character I know of has a
Giant character who due to the rule has lost 300,000ep. SO the question we
look at periodically is whether the cost of being a non-human could be payed
off at some point.

Mandos
/s
Group: dqn-list Message: 2163 From: D. Cameron King Date: 6/19/2005
Subject: Re: [6.3] Experience modifiers
>From: "darkislephil" <darkislephil@yahoo.com>

>I've always assumed that multiplier applied to any skill or ability
>that you raise via experience points.

I believe the multiplier is intended to apply to any expenditure of EP;
effectively, (most) non-human races earn EP at a slower rate than humans.

In our campaigns, we simplified the bookkeeping by dividing EP awards by
each character's EP Multiplier at the time EP was awarded (rather than
multiplying the cost to raise Ranks, etc., later).

Feel free to observe that this was not strictly "by the book," if you like.
;-)

-Cameron
Group: dqn-list Message: 2164 From: darkislephil Date: 6/19/2005
Subject: Re: [6.3] Experience modifiers
--- In dqn-list@yahoogroups.com, "Mandos Mitchinson" <mandos@a...> wrote:
> In our campaign the only query on this is whether it should
> still be there after 10 or 12 years of playing.

While the idea that there needed to be something to balance out the
benefits from being another race is good I've never been real happy
with the implementation. Just too lazy to come up with something
different.

Unless human characters were given some offsetting benefits the Exp
Mult for non-humans needs to be there.

Phil
Group: dqn-list Message: 2165 From: darkislephil Date: 6/19/2005
Subject: Re: [6.3] Experience modifiers
--- In dqn-list@yahoogroups.com, "D. Cameron King" <monarchy2000@h...>
wrote:
> In our campaigns, we simplified the bookkeeping by dividing EP
> awards by each character's EP Multiplier at the time EP was
> awarded (rather than multiplying the cost to raise Ranks, etc.,
> later).

That's an interesting idea. Avoids the whole players forgetting to
apply the modifier thing. But as a player there would be this
psychological effect of not getting as much XP as everyone else.
Might be worth a try though.

> Feel free to observe that this was not strictly "by the book,"
> if you like.

heh. :)


Phil
Group: dqn-list Message: 2166 From: Chris Klug Date: 6/19/2005
Subject: Re: Digest Number 399
On Jun 19, 2005, at 4:04 PM, dqn-list@yahoogroups.com wrote:

That would be counter to the rules but our esteemed group member Chris

Klug did at one time suggest that Read/Write should count toward the 8

skills at rank 8 or 8 at 4 totals for determining Hero or Adventurer

status.


I'm not saying one thing or another, BUT, I have never commented on this issue.

Do you want me to look up the rule and see if I DO remember what we intended?

Chris
Group: dqn-list Message: 2167 From: darkislephil Date: 6/19/2005
Subject: Re: Digest Number 399
--- In dqn-list@yahoogroups.com, Chris Klug <eaglewing@m...> wrote:
> On Jun 19, 2005, at 4:04 PM, dqn-list@yahoogroups.com wrote:
>
> > That would be counter to the rules but our esteemed group member Chris
> > Klug did at one time suggest that Read/Write should count toward the 8
> > skills at rank 8 or 8 at 4 totals for determining Hero or Adventurer
> > status.
>
> I'm not saying one thing or another, BUT, I have never commented on
> this issue.
>
> Do you want me to look up the rule and see if I DO remember what we
> intended?

Wasn't referring to any comments made here in the group but to some
questions you answered about the rules some 20 years ago. I still
have the pages with your writing on them. :)

However would love to hear what your viewpoint is on it now.

Phil
Group: dqn-list Message: 2168 From: Jeffery K. McGonagill Date: 6/19/2005
Subject: Re: [6.3] Experience modifiers
My group has been doing the same for a long time. It's not usually a psych
issue as there is not much enthusiasm for humans. Elves seem to be the
preferred race.

~Jeffery~

> wrote:
> > In our campaigns, we simplified the bookkeeping by dividing EP
> > awards by each character's EP Multiplier at the time EP was
> > awarded (rather than multiplying the cost to raise Ranks, etc.,
> > later).
>
> That's an interesting idea. Avoids the whole players forgetting to
> apply the modifier thing. But as a player there would be this
> psychological effect of not getting as much XP as everyone else.
> Might be worth a try though.
>
> > Feel free to observe that this was not strictly "by the book,"
> > if you like.
>
> heh. :)
>
>
> Phil
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Group: dqn-list Message: 2169 From: D. Cameron King Date: 6/19/2005
Subject: Re: Digest Number 399
>On Jun 19, 2005, at 4:04 PM, dqn-list@yahoogroups.com wrote:
>
>>That would be counter to the rules but our esteemed group member Chris
>>Klug did at one time suggest that Read/Write should count toward the 8
>>skills at rank 8 or 8 at 4 totals for determining Hero or Adventurer
>>status.

Somebody is going to have to explain this one to me. How is that "counter
to the rules," exactly?

-Cameron
Group: dqn-list Message: 2170 From: darkislephil Date: 6/20/2005
Subject: Humans vs other races
--- In dqn-list@yahoogroups.com, "Jeffery K. McGonagill" <igmod@c...>
wrote:
> My group has been doing the same for a long time. It's
> not usually a psych issue as there is not much enthusiasm
> for humans. Elves seem to be the preferred race.

That's interesting. Our group usually ended up mostly human with many
players not even trying to roll for other races. (Well other than the
obligatory roll for shape-changer. ;)

Does your group use [6.3] or just allow people to be whatever they want?

The rules certainly do seem to give the other races extra benefits
that aren't offset in any meaningful way for humans. Kind of makes me
think that perhaps the 3rd edition experience multiples might be a
good idea.

Phil
Group: dqn-list Message: 2171 From: darkislephil Date: 6/20/2005
Subject: Re: Digest Number 399
If I am reading Gabriel's post correctly he indicated that they were
giving Read/Write Common to starting non-human characters. This would
be counter to Section 49.

Phil

--- In dqn-list@yahoogroups.com, "D. Cameron King" <monarchy2000@h...>
wrote:
> >On Jun 19, 2005, at 4:04 PM, dqn-list@yahoogroups.com wrote:
> >
> >>That would be counter to the rules but our esteemed group member Chris
> >>Klug did at one time suggest that Read/Write should count toward the 8
> >>skills at rank 8 or 8 at 4 totals for determining Hero or Adventurer
> >>status.
>
> Somebody is going to have to explain this one to me. How is that
"counter
> to the rules," exactly?
>
> -Cameron
Group: dqn-list Message: 2172 From: rthorm Date: 6/20/2005
Subject: Re: [6.3] Experience modifiers
I'm doing the same thing with Xp awards in my current campaign. I
give everyone their XP awards, and then the non-human characters
divide by the XP multiplier to get their XP totals.

It's a lot easier to just do the math once, rather than figuring
multiples for each thing you want the character to learn.

I also have taken the languages out of the mix entirely (unless a
character has studied a new language entirely during the campaign).
Rather than requiring 8 abilities at Rank 8 for Hero and then counting
Speaking and Read/Write Common as two of them, I simply require 6
abilities at Rank 8 for Hero (or at Rank 4 for Adventurer).

Only three spells can count towards this total, and minor skills
(using the Poor Brendan's Almanac rules) are not counted.

--Rodger

--- In dqn-list@yahoogroups.com, "D. Cameron King" <monarchy2000@h...>
wrote:
>
> In our campaigns, we simplified the bookkeeping by dividing EP
awards by
> each character's EP Multiplier at the time EP was awarded (rather than
> multiplying the cost to raise Ranks, etc., later).
Group: dqn-list Message: 2173 From: dq@johncorey.com Date: 6/20/2005
Subject: Re: [6.3] Experience modifiers
at the risk of sounding slow... It never occured to me to do it any other
way than the way described by Mr. Thorm.

JohnC

> I'm doing the same thing with Xp awards in my current campaign. I
> give everyone their XP awards, and then the non-human characters
> divide by the XP multiplier to get their XP totals.
>
> It's a lot easier to just do the math once, rather than figuring
> multiples for each thing you want the character to learn.
>
> I also have taken the languages out of the mix entirely (unless a
> character has studied a new language entirely during the campaign).
> Rather than requiring 8 abilities at Rank 8 for Hero and then counting
> Speaking and Read/Write Common as two of them, I simply require 6
> abilities at Rank 8 for Hero (or at Rank 4 for Adventurer).
>
> Only three spells can count towards this total, and minor skills
> (using the Poor Brendan's Almanac rules) are not counted.
>
> --Rodger
>
> --- In dqn-list@yahoogroups.com, "D. Cameron King" <monarchy2000@h...>
> wrote:
>>
>> In our campaigns, we simplified the bookkeeping by dividing EP
> awards by
>> each character's EP Multiplier at the time EP was awarded (rather than
>> multiplying the cost to raise Ranks, etc., later).
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
Group: dqn-list Message: 2175 From: Chris Klug Date: 6/20/2005
Subject: Re: Digest Number 400
All

On Jun 20, 2005, at 4:49 PM, dqn-list@yahoogroups.com wrote:

> Wasn't referring to any comments made here in the group but to some
> questions you answered about the rules some 20 years ago. I still
> have the pages with your writing on them. :)
>

Ohmygod.

Okay, so if you have what I said then, I would think that anything I
said then would take precedence over what I might think now.

God for it.

Chris
Group: dqn-list Message: 2176 From: Arturo Algueiro Melo Date: 6/20/2005
Subject: Re: [6.3] Experience modifiers
Hi, people...
We use experience modifiers for everything but characteristic raises,
that remain 5000, 2500, 1000 or 750 XP for all races.
Best regards... Arturo


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Group: dqn-list Message: 2177 From: D. Cameron King Date: 6/20/2005
Subject: Re: Humans vs other races
>From: "darkislephil" <darkislephil@yahoo.com>

>The rules certainly do seem to give the other races extra benefits
>that aren't offset in any meaningful way for humans. Kind of makes me
>think that perhaps the 3rd edition experience multiples might be a
>good idea.

Are the 3rd edition multiples different from the 2nd edition ones? (I have
both editions, but not handy at the moment.)

-Cameron
Group: dqn-list Message: 2178 From: D. Cameron King Date: 6/20/2005
Subject: Re: Digest Number 399
> > >On Jun 19, 2005, at 4:04 PM, dqn-list@yahoogroups.com wrote:
> > >
> > >>That would be counter to the rules but our esteemed group member Chris
> > >>Klug did at one time suggest that Read/Write should count toward the 8
> > >>skills at rank 8 or 8 at 4 totals for determining Hero or Adventurer
> > >>status.
> >
> > Somebody is going to have to explain this one to me. How is that
>"counter
> > to the rules," exactly?
>
>If I understand Gabriel's post correctly he indicated that they were
>giving Read/Write Common to starting non-human characters. That would
>be counter to [49].

Ah, thanks! I didn't grok that.

-Cameron
Group: dqn-list Message: 2179 From: darkislephil Date: 6/20/2005
Subject: Re: Humans vs other races
> Are the 3rd edition multiples different from the 2nd edition ones?
(I have
> both editions, but not handy at the moment.)

Aye. The 3rd edition ones are brutal. 1.5, 2.5, 2.5, 1.5, 1.0, 1.2,
2.0 (Same order as 2nd Ed.)

Of course the stat bonuses are quite a bit higher as well. Elves are
completely ridiculous with a net +9 stat points.
Group: dqn-list Message: 2180 From: igmod@comcast.net Date: 6/21/2005
Subject: Re: Humans vs other races
 
 

-------------- Original message --------------

> --- In dqn-list@yahoogroups.com, "Jeffery K. McGonagill"
> wrote:
> > My group has been doing the same for a long time. It's
> > not usually a psych issue as there is not much enthusiasm
> > for humans. Elves seem to be the preferred race.
>
> That's interesting. Our group usually ended up mostly human with many
> players not even trying to roll for other races. (Well other than the
> obligatory roll for shape-changer. ;)
>
> Does your group use [6.3] or just allow people to be whatever they want?

I stopped the rolling a long time ago.  I have one player who has been with me for 18 years, and she's always a female Elf, and I'm always surprised when her character isn't a Healer and Mage.

~Jeffery~
 
> The rules certainly do seem to give the other races extra benefits
> that aren't offset in any meaningful way for humans. Kind of makes me
> think that perhaps the 3rd edition experience multiples might be a
> good idea.
>
> Phil
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
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>
> <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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>

Group: dqn-list Message: 2181 From: Thomas Barnfield Date: 6/21/2005
Subject: Re: [6.3] Experience modifiers
If I am remembering correctly, the shorter life span races have the lower
exp. multiplier, while the longer lived races have the higher ones. I think
the possible exception to this was the shape changer, but I dont have the
rules in front of me to look at.

It make sense that way, as the longer lived races tend to aquire things over
time, while the shorter life spans have to "cram" it all in:)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeffery K. McGonagill" <igmod@comcast.net>
To: <dqn-list@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2005 1:47 PM
Subject: Re: [DQN-list] Re: [6.3] Experience modifiers


> My group has been doing the same for a long time. It's not usually a
> psych
> issue as there is not much enthusiasm for humans. Elves seem to be the
> preferred race.
>
> ~Jeffery~
>
>> wrote:
>> > In our campaigns, we simplified the bookkeeping by dividing EP
>> > awards by each character's EP Multiplier at the time EP was
>> > awarded (rather than multiplying the cost to raise Ranks, etc.,
>> > later).
>>
>> That's an interesting idea. Avoids the whole players forgetting to
>> apply the modifier thing. But as a player there would be this
>> psychological effect of not getting as much XP as everyone else.
>> Might be worth a try though.
>>
>> > Feel free to observe that this was not strictly "by the book,"
>> > if you like.
>>
>> heh. :)
>>
>>
>> Phil
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
Group: dqn-list Message: 2182 From: Davis, John R Date: 6/29/2005
Subject: New Dragonquest Campaign
Attachments :
    hello
    Please 'pop over' and have a look at my setting for a new DQ campaign set in the world of Ardania (from the computer game majesty).
    The campaign book is available, as is 2 adventures, some specific charcater sheets, 5 mini-advetures and a map.
    If you would like to contribute comment about the campaign, and I hope you will, please email JRD123@hotmail.com for 'permission' to join this msn group.

    regards

    JohnD

    http://groups.msn.com/DragonquestMajesty/homepage





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    confidentiality of this e-mail and your reply cannot be guaranteed. If
    this message was not addressed to you, you have received it in error
    and any copying, distribution or other use of any part of it is
    strictly prohibited. Any views or opinions presented are solely those
    of the sender and do not necessarily represent those of the British
    Geological Survey. The security of e-mail communication cannot be
    guaranteed and the BGS accepts no liability for claims arising as a
    result of the use of this medium to transmit messages from or to the
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    Group: dqn-list Message: 2183 From: Jason Honhera Date: 6/29/2005
    Subject: Re: New Dragonquest Campaign
    doh!  security protocols won't let me use the passcode thing here at work. I'll have to try from home.

    "Davis, John R" <jrda@bgs.ac.uk> wrote:
    hello
    Please 'pop over' and have a look at my setting for a new DQ campaign set in the world of Ardania (from the computer game majesty).
    The campaign book is available, as is 2 adventures, some specific charcater sheets, 5 mini-advetures and a map.
    If you would like to contribute comment about the campaign, and I hope you will, please email JRD123@hotmail.com for 'permission' to join this msn group.

    regards

    JohnD

          http://groups.msn.com/DragonquestMajesty/homepage
         
         



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    This e-mail message, and any files transmitted with it, are
    confidential and intended solely for the use of the addressee.
    However, the information contained in this e-mail may subsequently
    be subject to public disclosure under the Freedom of Information Act 2000 and, unless the information is legally exempt from disclosure, the
    confidentiality of this e-mail and your reply cannot be guaranteed. If
    this message was not addressed to you, you have received it in error
    and any copying, distribution or other use of any part of it is
    strictly prohibited. Any views or opinions presented are solely those
    of the sender and do not necessarily represent those of the British
    Geological Survey. The security of e-mail communication cannot be
    guaranteed and the BGS accepts no liability for claims arising as a
    result of the use of this medium to transmit messages from or to the
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    Group: dqn-list Message: 2184 From: Stephen Miller Date: 7/19/2005
    Subject: Is this thing on?
    I figured I should see if anyone is here before I start posting stuff
    here. It looks like activity has dropped greatly, so better to be
    safe than sorry.

    As a brief introduction, I started playing DQ back in the early
    1980s, about the time of the release of the 2nd Edition. A friend of
    mine got the book as a gift, didn't like it (the fool!) and let me
    have it. I fell in love with the system and ran games in it for
    about a decade. In the mid-90s my group moved away from DQ to GURPS,
    but we all had a fondness for the game. Recently I was asked to take
    over for a GM who was suffering from burnout. I came up with all
    sorts of campaign ideas for various old systems (Villains &
    Vigilantes, Top Secret, Bushido, and others) and threw in an idea for
    DragonQuest for the fun of it. I figured they would pick one of the
    modern games, but most of them decided to play DQ, so I am back in
    the saddle.

    I am hoping I can find some of my old notes, as I added a great deal
    to the DQ system over the years. If I find them I will post the
    skills, weapons, and character races (including centaurs) I have used.

    I hope there are still folks here to appreciate it!

    Stephen Miller
    Ancient Gamer and Curmudgeon
    Group: dqn-list Message: 2185 From: Jason Honhera Date: 7/19/2005
    Subject: Re: Is this thing on?
    We're here. Just looking for something fresh to hash out.

    Stephen Miller <curmudgeon.gamer@gmail.com> wrote:
    I figured I should see if anyone is here before I start posting stuff
    here.  It looks like activity has dropped greatly, so better to be
    safe than sorry.

    As a brief introduction, I started playing DQ back in the early
    1980s, about the time of the release of the 2nd Edition.  A friend of
    mine got the book as a gift, didn't like it (the fool!) and let me
    have it.  I fell in love with the system and ran games in it for
    about a decade.  In the mid-90s my group moved away from DQ to GURPS,
    but we all had a fondness for the game.  Recently I was asked to take
    over for a GM who was suffering from burnout.  I came up with all
    sorts of campaign ideas for various old systems (Villains &
    Vigilantes, Top Secret, Bushido, and others) and threw in an idea for
    DragonQuest for the fun of it.  I figured they would pick one of the
    modern games, but most of them decided to play DQ, so I am back in
    the saddle.

    I am hoping I can find some of my old notes, as I added a great deal
    to the DQ system over the years.  If I find them I will post the
    skills, weapons, and character races (including centaurs) I have used.

    I hope there are still folks here to appreciate it!

    Stephen Miller
    Ancient Gamer and Curmudgeon




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    Group: dqn-list Message: 2186 From: rthorm Date: 7/19/2005
    Subject: Re: Is this thing on?
    Activity in this group goes in spurts. Having someone new come along
    and post something is one of the best ways to get things stirred up
    again. So, as far as that goes, you've already started it.

    We have a couple hundred subscribers here, in point of fact. We may
    not be chatting loudly at the moment, but toss something in the pool,
    and you'll see us swarm like a bunch of pirhanas.

    Looking forward to seeing more!

    Rodger Thorm


    --- In dqn-list@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Miller"
    <curmudgeon.gamer@g...> wrote:
    > I figured I should see if anyone is here before I start posting stuff
    > here. It looks like activity has dropped greatly, so better to be
    > safe than sorry.
    Group: dqn-list Message: 2187 From: Stephen Miller Date: 7/19/2005
    Subject: Re: Humans vs other races
    --- In dqn-list@yahoogroups.com, "darkislephil" <darkislephil@y...>
    wrote:
    > > Are the 3rd edition multiples different from the 2nd edition
    ones?
    > (I have
    > > both editions, but not handy at the moment.)
    >
    > Aye. The 3rd edition ones are brutal. 1.5, 2.5, 2.5, 1.5, 1.0,
    1.2,
    > 2.0 (Same order as 2nd Ed.)
    >
    > Of course the stat bonuses are quite a bit higher as well. Elves
    are
    > completely ridiculous with a net +9 stat points.

    The higher Characteristic Modifiers come from, if I am not mistaken,
    Chris Klug's Questing column in Ares #12. There he stated that, "I
    found the Characteristic Modifiers for each racial type extremely
    conservative, so I doubled each modifier except APA (or TMR) for each
    race (even this may still be too conservative). Try this method out
    and let me know your feelings." This was, I assume, modified when
    they were doing the work for 3rd Edition.

    Stephen Miller
    Ancient Gamer and Curmudgeon
    Group: dqn-list Message: 2188 From: Donald Hawthorne Date: 7/19/2005
    Subject: Re: Digest Number 404
    I'm here! Lurking, but here...
    I will be at Historicon this weekend (www.historicon.org) and I will be
    happy to chew the fat with any other DQ dans who happen to show up.
    Don


    ----- Original Message -----
    From: <dqn-list@yahoogroups.com>
    To: <dqn-list@yahoogroups.com>
    Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2005 3:24 PM
    Subject: [DQN-list] Digest Number 404


    > There are 3 messages in this issue.
    >
    > Topics in this digest:
    >
    > 1. Is this thing on?
    > From: "Stephen Miller" <curmudgeon.gamer@gmail.com>
    > 2. Re: Is this thing on?
    > From: Jason Honhera <albavar@yahoo.com>
    > 3. Re: Is this thing on?
    > From: "rthorm" <rthorm@cornellbox.com>
    >
    >
    > ________________________________________________________________________
    > ________________________________________________________________________
    >
    > Message: 1
    > Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 16:25:40 -0000
    > From: "Stephen Miller" <curmudgeon.gamer@gmail.com>
    > Subject: Is this thing on?
    >
    > I figured I should see if anyone is here before I start posting stuff
    > here. It looks like activity has dropped greatly, so better to be
    > safe than sorry.
    >
    > As a brief introduction, I started playing DQ back in the early
    > 1980s, about the time of the release of the 2nd Edition. A friend of
    > mine got the book as a gift, didn't like it (the fool!) and let me
    > have it. I fell in love with the system and ran games in it for
    > about a decade. In the mid-90s my group moved away from DQ to GURPS,
    > but we all had a fondness for the game. Recently I was asked to take
    > over for a GM who was suffering from burnout. I came up with all
    > sorts of campaign ideas for various old systems (Villains &
    > Vigilantes, Top Secret, Bushido, and others) and threw in an idea for
    > DragonQuest for the fun of it. I figured they would pick one of the
    > modern games, but most of them decided to play DQ, so I am back in
    > the saddle.
    >
    > I am hoping I can find some of my old notes, as I added a great deal
    > to the DQ system over the years. If I find them I will post the
    > skills, weapons, and character races (including centaurs) I have used.
    >
    > I hope there are still folks here to appreciate it!
    >
    > Stephen Miller
    > Ancient Gamer and Curmudgeon
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > ________________________________________________________________________
    > ________________________________________________________________________
    >
    > Message: 2
    > Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 10:15:25 -0700 (PDT)
    > From: Jason Honhera <albavar@yahoo.com>
    > Subject: Re: Is this thing on?
    >
    > We're here. Just looking for something fresh to hash out.
    >
    > Stephen Miller <curmudgeon.gamer@gmail.com> wrote:I figured I should see
    if anyone is here before I start posting stuff
    > here. It looks like activity has dropped greatly, so better to be
    > safe than sorry.
    >
    > As a brief introduction, I started playing DQ back in the early
    > 1980s, about the time of the release of the 2nd Edition. A friend of
    > mine got the book as a gift, didn't like it (the fool!) and let me
    > have it. I fell in love with the system and ran games in it for
    > about a decade. In the mid-90s my group moved away from DQ to GURPS,
    > but we all had a fondness for the game. Recently I was asked to take
    > over for a GM who was suffering from burnout. I came up with all
    > sorts of campaign ideas for various old systems (Villains &
    > Vigilantes, Top Secret, Bushido, and others) and threw in an idea for
    > DragonQuest for the fun of it. I figured they would pick one of the
    > modern games, but most of them decided to play DQ, so I am back in
    > the saddle.
    >
    > I am hoping I can find some of my old notes, as I added a great deal
    > to the DQ system over the years. If I find them I will post the
    > skills, weapons, and character races (including centaurs) I have used.
    >
    > I hope there are still folks here to appreciate it!
    >
    > Stephen Miller
    > Ancient Gamer and Curmudgeon
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > SPONSORED LINKS
    > Dragonquest Role playing games Online role playing games Role playing
    games online
    >
    > ---------------------------------
    > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
    >
    >
    > Visit your group "dqn-list" on the web.
    >
    > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    > dqn-list-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    >
    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
    >
    >
    > ---------------------------------
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > __________________________________________________
    > Do You Yahoo!?
    > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
    > http://mail.yahoo.com
    >
    > [This message contained attachments]
    >
    >
    >
    > ________________________________________________________________________
    > ________________________________________________________________________
    >
    > Message: 3
    > Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 17:39:53 -0000
    > From: "rthorm" <rthorm@cornellbox.com>
    > Subject: Re: Is this thing on?
    >
    > Activity in this group goes in spurts. Having someone new come along
    > and post something is one of the best ways to get things stirred up
    > again. So, as far as that goes, you've already started it.
    >
    > We have a couple hundred subscribers here, in point of fact. We may
    > not be chatting loudly at the moment, but toss something in the pool,
    > and you'll see us swarm like a bunch of pirhanas.
    >
    > Looking forward to seeing more!
    >
    > Rodger Thorm
    >
    >
    > --- In dqn-list@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Miller"
    > <curmudgeon.gamer@g...> wrote:
    > > I figured I should see if anyone is here before I start posting stuff
    > > here. It looks like activity has dropped greatly, so better to be
    > > safe than sorry.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > ________________________________________________________________________
    > ________________________________________________________________________
    >
    >
    >
    > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    > Yahoo! Groups Links
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    >
    >
    >
    Group: dqn-list Message: 2189 From: dbarrass_2000 Date: 7/20/2005
    Subject: Re: Is this thing on?
    There are people here, this hasn't been a bad year so far. This time 2
    years ago I didn't get much work done, it was all DQ :--)

    Welcome aboard

    David

    --- In dqn-list@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Miller"
    <curmudgeon.gamer@g...> wrote:
    > I figured I should see if anyone is here before I start posting stuff
    > here. It looks like activity has dropped greatly, so better to be
    > safe than sorry.
    >
    > As a brief introduction, I started playing DQ back in the early
    > 1980s, about the time of the release of the 2nd Edition. A friend of
    > mine got the book as a gift, didn't like it (the fool!) and let me
    > have it. I fell in love with the system and ran games in it for
    > about a decade. In the mid-90s my group moved away from DQ to GURPS,
    > but we all had a fondness for the game. Recently I was asked to take
    > over for a GM who was suffering from burnout. I came up with all
    > sorts of campaign ideas for various old systems (Villains &
    > Vigilantes, Top Secret, Bushido, and others) and threw in an idea for
    > DragonQuest for the fun of it. I figured they would pick one of the
    > modern games, but most of them decided to play DQ, so I am back in
    > the saddle.
    >
    > I am hoping I can find some of my old notes, as I added a great deal
    > to the DQ system over the years. If I find them I will post the
    > skills, weapons, and character races (including centaurs) I have used.
    >
    > I hope there are still folks here to appreciate it!
    >
    > Stephen Miller
    > Ancient Gamer and Curmudgeon
    Group: dqn-list Message: 2190 From: Stephen Miller Date: 7/20/2005
    Subject: Answering some of Chris Klug's questions
    Okay, let's see if I remember all the ones I read that were posted
    recently. After skimming through over 2,100 messages they all start
    to blur together!

    Yes, I am still playing DQ 2nd Ed HC and will be starting a brand new
    campaign in a few weeks. I started playing back in 1981, or there about.

    We mostly play a straight 2nd Ed game. We've combined a few elements
    from the Bantam edition (2d10 for CPs, PC of 8) and a few things from
    DragonNotes (extended Aspect & Sign table, Half-Elves and Lizardmen as
    PCs, and others) and mixed in a few elements of my own design
    (centaurs as PCs, new weapons and armor, etc.). Anyone who is
    familiar with the game could easily join our game.

    I currently run a game that is in a world of my own creation. I have
    never owned the Frontiers of Alusia, but I have wanted to get it. I
    tend to play my own campaign setting in just about every game I run.
    My camapign currently has a rather early Renaissance/North
    African/Arabian theme to it. I've run another with a Celtic/Germanic
    theme, and an Arthurian theme game. I am sure there are others I used
    a long time ago, but memory fails me.

    I think there were a few others, but that is all I can remember right now.

    Stephen Miller
    Ancient Gamer and Curmudgeon
    Group: dqn-list Message: 2191 From: Stephen Miller Date: 7/21/2005
    Subject: Player Races
    I was wondering, what races do you typically allow in your DQ game? Do
    you just use the ones in the book? Did anyone add the ones from Ares
    #12 (Half-Elf and Lizardman)? What about homebrew races? Finally, do
    you follow the rule that says to be a non-human you have to roll for a
    chance to be that race?

    I ask the last question because I have a rather power-hungry/munchkiny
    player in my group who I know would instantly pick either giant or
    shape changer, given the chance. He would also, I am sure, totally
    distort the racial concept, but that's a whole different story.

    Stephen Miller
    Ancient Gamer and Curmudgeon
    Group: dqn-list Message: 2192 From: J. K. Hoffman Date: 7/21/2005
    Subject: Re: Player Races
    You mean like having a giant afflicted with dwarfism so that he
    ends up human-sized, but with all the racial benefits of a giant?
    And, before you start laughing, I've seen players try stuff like
    that before! Sadly...

    Oh, the memories of munchkins past.
    Jim

    --- Original Message ---
    From: "Stephen Miller" <curmudgeon.gamer@gmail.com>
    To: dqn-list@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: [DQN-list] Player Races

    >I was wondering, what races do you typically allow in your DQ
    game? Do
    >you just use the ones in the book? Did anyone add the ones from
    Ares
    >#12 (Half-Elf and Lizardman)? What about homebrew races?
    Finally, do
    >you follow the rule that says to be a non-human you have to roll
    for a
    >chance to be that race?
    >
    >I ask the last question because I have a rather
    power-hungry/munchkiny
    >player in my group who I know would instantly pick either giant or
    >shape changer, given the chance. He would also, I am sure, totally
    >distort the racial concept, but that's a whole different story.
    >
    >Stephen Miller
    >Ancient Gamer and Curmudgeon

    --
    "Being right means never having to say your sorry"
    - Vernor Vinge

    "Being right too soon is socially unacceptable."
    - Robert A. Heinlein
    Group: dqn-list Message: 2193 From: Stephen Miller Date: 7/21/2005
    Subject: Re: Player Races
    J. K. Hoffman wrote:
    > You mean like having a giant afflicted with dwarfism so that he
    > ends up human-sized, but with all the racial benefits of a giant?
    > And, before you start laughing, I've seen players try stuff like
    > that before! Sadly...

    I am not laughing, I am hoping that the player in question does not
    know about this group and has not read that. I am sure he would ask
    about it, given the chance and the knowledge. <sigh>

    Anyway, back to the original question, or a corollary thereof, what
    races would you add, or remove, if you were writing a new version of DQ?
    Group: dqn-list Message: 2194 From: Coyote Moon Date: 7/21/2005
    Subject: Re: Player Races
    "Finally, do you follow the rule that says to be a
    non-human you have to roll for a chance to be that
    race?"

    ****

    Hi! New member to the group... Found a used copy of DQ
    back in the early 80's, and have loved it ever since.
    Most of the gaming is other systems, but my favorite
    has been DQ. And yes, I ALWAYS insist on the non-human
    roll... mostly because of folks who just play numbers
    and not games or characters. I am willing to be
    flexible with the various rolls in order to support a
    good character concept, but not that one... What do
    others of you do?



    __________________________________________________
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    Group: dqn-list Message: 2195 From: J. K. Hoffman Date: 7/21/2005
    Subject: Re: Player Races
    Well, the only "issue" I had with the existing character races
    was with the shapechanger and that was just the record-keeping
    aspect of it. So many stats to keep track of!
    As for adding... Well, the lizardman (suarime) idea seems to
    have merit, to me, but I'm against half-anything. It just
    stretches my suspended disbelief a little too far. And, of
    course, it reminds me of D&D a little too much, too.

    Cheers!
    Jim

    --- Original Message ---
    From: "Stephen Miller" <curmudgeon.gamer@gmail.com>
    To: dqn-list@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: [DQN-list] Re: Player Races


    >
    >I am not laughing, I am hoping that the player in question does not
    >know about this group and has not read that. I am sure he would
    ask
    >about it, given the chance and the knowledge. <sigh>
    >
    >Anyway, back to the original question, or a corollary thereof, what
    >races would you add, or remove, if you were writing a new
    version of DQ?
    >

    --
    "Being right means never having to say your sorry"
    - Vernor Vinge

    "Being right too soon is socially unacceptable."
    - Robert A. Heinlein
    Group: dqn-list Message: 2196 From: D. Cameron King Date: 7/21/2005
    Subject: Re: Player Races
    >"Finally, do you follow the rule that says to be a
    >non-human you have to roll for a chance to be that
    >race?"
    >
    >****
    >
    >Hi! New member to the group... Found a used copy of DQ
    >back in the early 80's, and have loved it ever since.
    >Most of the gaming is other systems, but my favorite
    >has been DQ. And yes, I ALWAYS insist on the non-human
    >roll... mostly because of folks who just play numbers
    >and not games or characters. I am willing to be
    >flexible with the various rolls in order to support a
    >good character concept, but not that one... What do
    >others of you do?

    I no longer play DQ, but did for many years, and we always rolled for
    non-human races. Given the many advantages non-humans enjoy in DQ, it's
    pretty much the only way to ensure some "human representation" in the
    typical adventuring party. (I can't recall anyone *ever* playing a human
    without first taking at least one roll on the non-human races table.) Also,
    some of the races (shape-changer and giant being the obvious examples) are
    *so* superior to the others that you really have to have some way of
    limiting their numbers.

    -Cameron
    Group: dqn-list Message: 2197 From: Jason Honhera Date: 7/21/2005
    Subject: Re: Player Races
    I do make my players roll.  I only use the races in the book and disallow giants for logistical reasons. ("You want me to where?!  Do I look like a gopher to you?")
     
    Of course I am having a tough time getting anyone to play a "dead" system... :(
     
    Albavar 

    Stephen Miller <curmudgeon.gamer@gmail.com> wrote:
    I was wondering, what races do you typically allow in your DQ game?  Do
    you just use the ones in the book?  Did anyone add the ones from Ares
    #12 (Half-Elf and Lizardman)?  What about homebrew races?  Finally, do
    you follow the rule that says to be a non-human you have to roll for a
    chance to be that race?

    I ask the last question because I have a rather power-hungry/munchkiny
    player in my group who I know would instantly pick either giant or
    shape changer, given the chance.  He would also, I am sure, totally
    distort the racial concept, but that's a whole different story.

    Stephen Miller
    Ancient Gamer and Curmudgeon


    __________________________________________________
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    Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
    http://mail.yahoo.com

    Group: dqn-list Message: 2198 From: J. K. Hoffman Date: 7/21/2005
    Subject: Re: Player Races
    It's all in how you sell it. When I was still gaming, I'd tell
    people this was the game that was so good TSR had to buy the
    company just so they could kill it. Not really true, of course,
    but, still, it was good salesmanship. ^_^

    Cheers!
    Jim

    --- Original Message ---
    From: Jason Honhera <albavar@yahoo.com>
    To: dqn-list@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: Re: [DQN-list] Player Races

    >I do make my players roll. I only use the races in the book and
    disallow giants for logistical reasons. ("You want me to where?!
    Do I look like a gopher to you?")
    >
    >Of course I am having a tough time getting anyone to play a
    "dead" system... :(
    >
    >Albavar
    >
    --
    "Being right means never having to say your sorry"
    - Vernor Vinge

    "Being right too soon is socially unacceptable."
    - Robert A. Heinlein
    Group: dqn-list Message: 2199 From: Stephen Miller Date: 7/22/2005
    Subject: Re: Player Races
    J. K. Hoffman wrote:
    > It's all in how you sell it.

    Here's how I sold it to the group who will be making new characters
    next week. I made up a list of games I would be willing to run. For
    each one I gave it a title, genre/theme/era, a tagline, and synopsis.
    The synopsis I gave for the DQ game was:

    "High adventure, wealth and power awaits him who braves the frontier
    lands of Kaliria! Ancient ruins hold great wealth and untold power.
    The land of the Djinn are said to be littered with magical floating
    towers where great viziers work dark magic in order to control the
    vast Empire of Kaliria. Who knows where luck will lead you?"

    Seems to work, since they picked DQ out of the nine options they had.
    Now I just have to figure out WHERE luck will lead them!

    Stephen Miller
    Ancient Gamer and Curmudgeon
    Group: dqn-list Message: 2200 From: Stephen Miller Date: 7/22/2005
    Subject: Gnomes as PCs
    I know that somewhere I read about adding Gnomes to the list of PC
    races. I could have sworn it was from an Ares magazine article, but I
    have been known to be wrong in the past. Can anyone help on this one?

    Stephen Miller
    Ancient Gamer and Curmudgeon
    Group: dqn-list Message: 2201 From: J. Corey Date: 7/23/2005
    Subject: Re: Player Races
    I have played with Half-elves extensively, and I would add them, but
    make the chance around that of a shape changer.

    JohnC
    On Jul 21, 2005, at 2:37 PM, Stephen Miller wrote:

    > J. K. Hoffman wrote:
    >
    >> You mean like having a giant afflicted with dwarfism so that he
    >> ends up human-sized, but with all the racial benefits of a giant?
    >> And, before you start laughing, I've seen players try stuff like
    >> that before! Sadly...
    >>
    >
    > I am not laughing, I am hoping that the player in question does not
    > know about this group and has not read that. I am sure he would ask
    > about it, given the chance and the knowledge. <sigh>
    >
    > Anyway, back to the original question, or a corollary thereof, what
    > races would you add, or remove, if you were writing a new version
    > of DQ?
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Yahoo! Groups Links
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    Group: dqn-list Message: 2202 From: J. Corey Date: 7/23/2005
    Subject: Re: Player Races
    I ended up disallowing Giants.

    JohnC
    > some of the races (shape-changer and giant being the obvious
    > examples) are
    > *so* superior to the others that you really have to have some way of
    > limiting their numbers.
    >
    > -Cameron
    >
    >
    Group: dqn-list Message: 2203 From: Jeffery K. McGonagill Date: 7/23/2005
    Subject: Re: Player Races
    I didn't have many try to be giants, and every one was a thief, the ultimate
    second-story crook (I have no idea why.)

    Shape-Changers were always the first choice when I used the DR, but Elves
    are far and away the most popular. I have a small group, and I don't
    require the use of the DR for race. Currently the group consists of three
    Elves (two have issues with humans, but are currently living in a
    predominantly human, metropolitan city) and a shape-changer.

    In my world the general populace does not see any difference between a
    shape-changer and a lycanthrope.

    Lots of potential for role-playing.

    As a side note, I've made resurrection more costly for a Healer.

    ~Jeffery~

    > I ended up disallowing Giants.
    >
    > JohnC
    > > some of the races (shape-changer and giant being the obvious
    > > examples) are
    > > *so* superior to the others that you really have to have some way of
    > > limiting their numbers.
    > >
    > > -Cameron
    > >
    > >
    >
    >
    >
    > Yahoo! Groups Links
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    Group: dqn-list Message: 2204 From: Esko Halttunen Date: 7/24/2005
    Subject: Re: Player Races etc
    Hello, there!

    Like Rodger said, this group is deceptively calm on the surface but
    seething below, as you might have noticed by now. ;-)



    Stephen Miller wrote:

    >I figured I should see if anyone is here before I start posting stuff
    >here. It looks like activity has dropped greatly, so better to be
    >safe than sorry.
    >
    ><snip intro>
    >
    >I am hoping I can find some of my old notes, as I added a great deal
    >to the DQ system over the years. If I find them I will post the
    >skills, weapons, and character races (including centaurs) I have used.
    >
    >
    If you're interested in new materials, check out what we've got in the
    files section of this group and the files section of the DQ-rules group.
    I don't remember if I posted the extensively reworked and expanded
    Weapons & Armor table and the new Aspects table in both this group and
    DQ-Rules, but I have a hunch you might find those worthwhile reading. :-)

    >I was wondering, what races do you typically allow in your DQ game? Do
    >you just use the ones in the book? Did anyone add the ones from Ares
    >#12 (Half-Elf and Lizardman)? What about homebrew races? Finally, do
    >you follow the rule that says to be a non-human you have to roll for a
    >chance to be that race?
    >
    >
    I tend to allow elves, dwarves, half-elves (very rare), orcs and
    hobgoblins. Anything else depends completely on the player's ability to
    actually role play a character instead of a set of numbers. I generally
    do not require players to roll for non-humans, but if they want anything
    unusual, they had better be able to convince me they can handle it. If
    they insist they can and disappoint me, I'll just yank their character
    in the middle of the game and tell them point blank to roll up a new one.

    I've added a couple of homebrew species myself. Not available for
    players, though, because the group I generally game with is singularly
    unable to handle any complex role playing. They make for interesting
    NPCs, however. There is also the issue that some of those new species
    would be entirely too prone to munchkn abuse. One of those is a species
    of warm-blooded lizardmen that is significantly more advanced than the
    suarime and on a par with humans, or even more advanced technologically
    and scientifically (larger and broader knowledge base) in many respects.
    They just happen to be few in number, live in a hostile environment that
    ensures they do not get to grow toomuch in numbers and they have certain
    other factors working to keep them in check. But anyone who gets the
    bright idea of trying to take them on in their home turf can expect to
    be annihilated even with a ten to one advantage in numbers.

    By the way, I *hate* the word "race" with a passion where RPGs are
    concerned, because it gives the impression that all the different types
    of beings are just subgroupings of the same species. Even though I'm not
    a biologist, I tend to insist on accurate terminology, and this one is
    one of my longest held pet peeves.

    >I ask the last question because I have a rather power-hungry/munchkiny
    >player in my group who I know would instantly pick either giant or
    >shape changer, given the chance. He would also, I am sure, totally
    >distort the racial concept, but that's a whole different story.
    >
    >
    Oh yeah, I know this type of players all too well. My cousin is a
    typical min/maxer who couldn't actually role play his way out of a wet
    paper bag even with scissors and a detailed set of instructions, and
    while some of my group are not as bad in the munchkin department, they
    are just as bad if not worse role players. With such people, it's best
    to be dictatorial and simply tell them that such and such options are
    off limits for them. When they ask why, just tell them that they are not
    equipped to handle it and if they storm away in a fit, good riddance.
    Allowing such munchkins to have their way through whiningh or bullying
    or a combination thereof is a recipe for disaster, because they are
    likely to break the campaign in any case and doubly so if given unusual
    and/or powerful tools to do so.

    Edi
    Group: dqn-list Message: 2205 From: Arturo Algueiro Melo Date: 7/25/2005
    Subject: Re: Player r
    --- dqn-list@yahoogroups.com escribió:

    > There are 4 messages in this issue.
    >
    > Topics in this digest:
    >
    > 1. Re: Re: Player Races
    > From: "J. Corey" <dq@johncorey.com>
    > 2. Re: Player Races
    > From: "J. Corey" <dq@johncorey.com>
    > 3. Re: Player Races
    > From: "Jeffery K. McGonagill" <igmod@comcast.net>
    > 4. Re: Player Races etc
    > From: Esko Halttunen <esko.halttunen@welho.com>
    >
    >
    > ________________________________________________________________________
    > ________________________________________________________________________
    >
    > Message: 1
    > Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2005 22:08:37 -0400
    > From: "J. Corey" <dq@johncorey.com>
    > Subject: Re: Re: Player Races
    >
    > I have played with Half-elves extensively, and I would add them, but
    > make the chance around that of a shape changer.
    >
    > JohnC
    > On Jul 21, 2005, at 2:37 PM, Stephen Miller wrote:
    >
    > > J. K. Hoffman wrote:
    > >
    > >> You mean like having a giant afflicted with dwarfism so that he
    > >> ends up human-sized, but with all the racial benefits of a giant?
    > >> And, before you start laughing, I've seen players try stuff like
    > >> that before! Sadly...
    > >>
    > >
    > > I am not laughing, I am hoping that the player in question does not
    > > know about this group and has not read that. I am sure he would ask
    > > about it, given the chance and the knowledge. <sigh>
    > >
    > > Anyway, back to the original question, or a corollary thereof, what
    > > races would you add, or remove, if you were writing a new version
    > > of DQ?
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > Yahoo! Groups Links
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    >
    >
    >
    > ________________________________________________________________________
    > ________________________________________________________________________
    >
    > Message: 2
    > Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2005 22:10:03 -0400
    > From: "J. Corey" <dq@johncorey.com>
    > Subject: Re: Player Races
    >
    > I ended up disallowing Giants.
    >
    > JohnC
    > > some of the races (shape-changer and giant being the obvious
    > > examples) are
    > > *so* superior to the others that you really have to have some way of
    > > limiting their numbers.
    > >
    > > -Cameron
    > >
    > >
    >
    >
    > ________________________________________________________________________
    > ________________________________________________________________________
    >
    > Message: 3
    > Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2005 19:28:12 -0700
    > From: "Jeffery K. McGonagill" <igmod@comcast.net>
    > Subject: Re: Player Races
    >
    > I didn't have many try to be giants, and every one was a thief, the ultimate
    > second-story crook (I have no idea why.)
    >
    > Shape-Changers were always the first choice when I used the DR, but Elves
    > are far and away the most popular. I have a small group, and I don't
    > require the use of the DR for race. Currently the group consists of three
    > Elves (two have issues with humans, but are currently living in a
    > predominantly human, metropolitan city) and a shape-changer.
    >
    > In my world the general populace does not see any difference between a
    > shape-changer and a lycanthrope.
    >
    > Lots of potential for role-playing.
    >
    > As a side note, I've made resurrection more costly for a Healer.
    >
    > ~Jeffery~
    >
    > > I ended up disallowing Giants.
    > >
    > > JohnC
    > > > some of the races (shape-changer and giant being the obvious
    > > > examples) are
    > > > *so* superior to the others that you really have to have some way of
    > > > limiting their numbers.
    > > >
    > > > -Cameron
    > > >
    > > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > Yahoo! Groups Links
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > ________________________________________________________________________
    > ________________________________________________________________________
    >
    > Message: 4
    > Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2005 12:02:14 +0300
    > From: Esko Halttunen <esko.halttunen@welho.com>
    > Subject: Re: Player Races etc
    >
    > Hello, there!
    >
    > Like Rodger said, this group is deceptively calm on the surface but
    > seething below, as you might have noticed by now. ;-)
    >
    >
    >
    > Stephen Miller wrote:
    >
    > >I figured I should see if anyone is here before I start posting stuff
    > >here. It looks like activity has dropped greatly, so better to be
    > >safe than sorry.
    > >
    > ><snip intro>
    > >
    > >I am hoping I can find some of my old notes, as I added a great deal
    > >to the DQ system over the years. If I find them I will post the
    > >skills, weapons, and character races (including centaurs) I have used.
    > >
    > >
    > If you're interested in new materials, check out what we've got in the
    > files section of this group and the files section of the DQ-rules group.
    > I don't remember if I posted the extensively reworked and expanded
    > Weapons & Armor table and the new Aspects table in both this group and
    > DQ-Rules, but I have a hunch you might find those worthwhile reading. :-)
    >
    > >I was wondering, what races do you typically allow in your DQ game? Do
    > >you just use the ones in the book? Did anyone add the ones from Ares
    > >#12 (Half-Elf and Lizardman)? What about homebrew races? Finally, do
    > >you follow the rule that says to be a non-human you have to roll for a
    > >chance to be that race?
    > >
    > >
    > I tend to allow elves, dwarves, half-elves (very rare), orcs and
    > hobgoblins. Anything else depends completely on the player's ability to
    > actually role play a character instead of a set of numbers. I generally
    > do not require players to roll for non-humans, but if they want anything
    > unusual, they had better be able to convince me they can handle it. If
    > they insist they can and disappoint me, I'll just yank their character
    > in the middle of the game and tell them point blank to roll up a new one.
    >
    > I've added a couple of homebrew species myself. Not available for
    > players, though, because the group I generally game with is singularly
    > unable to handle any complex role playing. They make for interesting
    > NPCs, however. There is also the issue that some of those new species
    > would be entirely too prone to munchkn abuse. One of those is a species
    > of warm-blooded lizardmen that is significantly more advanced than the
    > suarime and on a par with humans, or even more advanced technologically
    > and scientifically (larger and broader knowledge base) in many respects.
    > They just happen to be few in number, live in a hostile environment that
    > ensures they do not get to grow toomuch in numbers and they have certain
    > other factors working to keep them in check. But anyone who gets the
    > bright idea of trying to take them on in their home turf can expect to
    > be annihilated even with a ten to one advantage in numbers.
    >
    > By the way, I *hate* the word "race" with a passion where RPGs are
    > concerned, because it gives the impression that all the different types
    > of beings are just subgroupings of the same species. Even though I'm not
    > a biologist, I tend to insist on accurate terminology, and this one is
    > one of my longest held pet peeves.
    >
    > >I ask the last question because I have a rather power-hungry/munchkiny
    > >player in my group who I know would instantly pick either giant or
    > >shape changer, given the chance. He would also, I am sure, totally
    > >distort the racial concept, but that's a whole different story.
    > >
    > >
    > Oh yeah, I know this type of players all too well. My cousin is a
    > typical min/maxer who couldn't actually role play his way out of a wet
    > paper bag even with scissors and a detailed set of instructions, and
    > while some of my group are not as bad in the munchkin department, they
    > are just as bad if not worse role players. With such people, it's best
    > to be dictatorial and simply tell them that such and such options are
    > off limits for them. When they ask why, just tell them that they are not
    > equipped to handle it and if they storm away in a fit, good riddance.
    > Allowing such munchkins to have their way through whiningh or bullying
    > or a combination thereof is a recipe for disaster, because they are
    > likely to break the campaign in any case and doubly so if given unusual
    > and/or powerful tools to do so.
    >
    > Edi
    >
    >
    > ________________________________________________________________________
    > ________________________________________________________________________
    >
    >
    >
    > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    > Yahoo! Groups Links
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    >
    >
    >
    >


    __________________________________________________
    Correo Yahoo!
    Espacio para todos tus mensajes, antivirus y antispam ¡gratis!
    Regístrate ya - http://correo.espanol.yahoo.com/
    Group: dqn-list Message: 2206 From: Arturo Algueiro Melo Date: 7/25/2005
    Subject: Re: Player
    --- dqn-list@yahoogroups.com escribió:

    > There are 4 messages in this issue.
    >
    > Topics in this digest:
    >
    > 1. Re: Re: Player Races
    > From: "J. Corey" <dq@johncorey.com>
    > 2. Re: Player Races
    > From: "J. Corey" <dq@johncorey.com>
    > 3. Re: Player Races
    > From: "Jeffery K. McGonagill" <igmod@comcast.net>
    > 4. Re: Player Races etc
    > From: Esko Halttunen <esko.halttunen@welho.com>
    >
    >
    > ________________________________________________________________________
    > ________________________________________________________________________
    >
    > Message: 1
    > Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2005 22:08:37 -0400
    > From: "J. Corey" <dq@johncorey.com>
    > Subject: Re: Re: Player Races
    >
    > I have played with Half-elves extensively, and I would add them, but
    > make the chance around that of a shape changer.
    >
    > JohnC
    > On Jul 21, 2005, at 2:37 PM, Stephen Miller wrote:
    >
    > > J. K. Hoffman wrote:
    > >
    > >> You mean like having a giant afflicted with dwarfism so that he
    > >> ends up human-sized, but with all the racial benefits of a giant?
    > >> And, before you start laughing, I've seen players try stuff like
    > >> that before! Sadly...
    > >>
    > >
    > > I am not laughing, I am hoping that the player in question does not
    > > know about this group and has not read that. I am sure he would ask
    > > about it, given the chance and the knowledge. <sigh>
    > >
    > > Anyway, back to the original question, or a corollary thereof, what
    > > races would you add, or remove, if you were writing a new version
    > > of DQ?
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > Yahoo! Groups Links
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    >
    >
    >
    > ________________________________________________________________________
    > ________________________________________________________________________
    >
    > Message: 2
    > Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2005 22:10:03 -0400
    > From: "J. Corey" <dq@johncorey.com>
    > Subject: Re: Player Races
    >
    > I ended up disallowing Giants.
    >
    > JohnC
    > > some of the races (shape-changer and giant being the obvious
    > > examples) are
    > > *so* superior to the others that you really have to have some way of
    > > limiting their numbers.
    > >
    > > -Cameron
    > >
    > >
    >
    >
    > ________________________________________________________________________
    > ________________________________________________________________________
    >
    > Message: 3
    > Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2005 19:28:12 -0700
    > From: "Jeffery K. McGonagill" <igmod@comcast.net>
    > Subject: Re: Player Races
    >
    > I didn't have many try to be giants, and every one was a thief, the ultimate
    > second-story crook (I have no idea why.)
    >
    > Shape-Changers were always the first choice when I used the DR, but Elves
    > are far and away the most popular. I have a small group, and I don't
    > require the use of the DR for race. Currently the group consists of three
    > Elves (two have issues with humans, but are currently living in a
    > predominantly human, metropolitan city) and a shape-changer.
    >
    > In my world the general populace does not see any difference between a
    > shape-changer and a lycanthrope.
    >
    > Lots of potential for role-playing.
    >
    > As a side note, I've made resurrection more costly for a Healer.
    >
    > ~Jeffery~
    >
    > > I ended up disallowing Giants.
    > >
    > > JohnC
    > > > some of the races (shape-changer and giant being the obvious
    > > > examples) are
    > > > *so* superior to the others that you really have to have some way of
    > > > limiting their numbers.
    > > >
    > > > -Cameron
    > > >
    > > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > Yahoo! Groups Links
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > ________________________________________________________________________
    > ________________________________________________________________________
    >
    > Message: 4
    > Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2005 12:02:14 +0300
    > From: Esko Halttunen <esko.halttunen@welho.com>
    > Subject: Re: Player Races etc
    >
    > Hello, there!
    >
    > Like Rodger said, this group is deceptively calm on the surface but
    > seething below, as you might have noticed by now. ;-)
    >
    >
    >
    > Stephen Miller wrote:
    >
    > >I figured I should see if anyone is here before I start posting stuff
    > >here. It looks like activity has dropped greatly, so better to be
    > >safe than sorry.
    > >
    > ><snip intro>
    > >
    > >I am hoping I can find some of my old notes, as I added a great deal
    > >to the DQ system over the years. If I find them I will post the
    > >skills, weapons, and character races (including centaurs) I have used.
    > >
    > >
    > If you're interested in new materials, check out what we've got in the
    > files section of this group and the files section of the DQ-rules group.
    > I don't remember if I posted the extensively reworked and expanded
    > Weapons & Armor table and the new Aspects table in both this group and
    > DQ-Rules, but I have a hunch you might find those worthwhile reading. :-)
    >
    > >I was wondering, what races do you typically allow in your DQ game? Do
    > >you just use the ones in the book? Did anyone add the ones from Ares
    > >#12 (Half-Elf and Lizardman)? What about homebrew races? Finally, do
    > >you follow the rule that says to be a non-human you have to roll for a
    > >chance to be that race?
    > >
    > >
    > I tend to allow elves, dwarves, half-elves (very rare), orcs and
    > hobgoblins. Anything else depends completely on the player's ability to
    > actually role play a character instead of a set of numbers. I generally
    > do not require players to roll for non-humans, but if they want anything
    > unusual, they had better be able to convince me they can handle it. If
    > they insist they can and disappoint me, I'll just yank their character
    > in the middle of the game and tell them point blank to roll up a new one.
    >
    > I've added a couple of homebrew species myself. Not available for
    > players, though, because the group I generally game with is singularly
    > unable to handle any complex role playing. They make for interesting
    > NPCs, however. There is also the issue that some of those new species
    > would be entirely too prone to munchkn abuse. One of those is a species
    > of warm-blooded lizardmen that is significantly more advanced than the
    > suarime and on a par with humans, or even more advanced technologically
    > and scientifically (larger and broader knowledge base) in many respects.
    > They just happen to be few in number, live in a hostile environment that
    > ensures they do not get to grow toomuch in numbers and they have certain
    > other factors working to keep them in check. But anyone who gets the
    > bright idea of trying to take them on in their home turf can expect to
    > be annihilated even with a ten to one advantage in numbers.
    >
    > By the way, I *hate* the word "race" with a passion where RPGs are
    > concerned, because it gives the impression that all the different types
    > of beings are just subgroupings of the same species. Even though I'm not
    > a biologist, I tend to insist on accurate terminology, and this one is
    > one of my longest held pet peeves.
    >
    > >I ask the last question because I have a rather power-hungry/munchkiny
    > >player in my group who I know would instantly pick either giant or
    > >shape changer, given the chance. He would also, I am sure, totally
    > >distort the racial concept, but that's a whole different story.
    > >
    > >
    > Oh yeah, I know this type of players all too well. My cousin is a
    > typical min/maxer who couldn't actually role play his way out of a wet
    > paper bag even with scissors and a detailed set of instructions, and
    > while some of my group are not as bad in the munchkin department, they
    > are just as bad if not worse role players. With such people, it's best
    > to be dictatorial and simply tell them that such and such options are
    > off limits for them. When they ask why, just tell them that they are not
    > equipped to handle it and if they storm away in a fit, good riddance.
    > Allowing such munchkins to have their way through whiningh or bullying
    > or a combination thereof is a recipe for disaster, because they are
    > likely to break the campaign in any case and doubly so if given unusual
    > and/or powerful tools to do so.
    >
    > Edi
    >
    >
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    Group: dqn-list Message: 2207 From: Arturo Algueiro Melo Date: 7/25/2005
    Subject: Re: Player Races and Gnomes
    Sorry for the failed send. this is the good(?) one.

    We use non-human races of 2nd and 3rd edition.
    We only allow using the third edition stats and multipliers
    on the first dice roll; if failed, the characters must be
    rolled with 2nd ed. stats for the second and third roll.
    If the player succeeds with the giant roll (6%), he has to roll
    to determine which race: 1-40 Hill, 41-70 Stone, 71-90 Fire,
    91-95 Frost, 96-98 Cloud, 99-100 Storm.
    For the shapechanger (4%) he has the following alternatives:
    1-4 Wolf, 5-6 Tiger, 7-8 Bear, 9-10 Boar.
    We use the gnome definition from Russell Whyte (DQNewsletter,
    I think): Lifespan: 500 years, PS -3, MA +2, FT +2, MD +1,
    WP +2, EN +1, TMR -1, Exp.Mult 1.1
    Character roll chance 20%
    Special Abilities
    1. Can be healers at 75% of listed experience costs.
    2. Vision is equal to dwarves.
    3. Any skill involving stones is at 50%. This includes mining, gem-
    cutting, stonework/mason, and any others you may have. Any item created
    will be high in quality, compared to most of other races. These guys are to
    stonework what dwarves are to metalwork!
    4. +25 reaction roll with underground races (dwarves, hobbits, etc)

    On the topic about "races", they are really races because interracial
    breeding is possible. If not, they are "species" (or that I've been told
    in my biology class, far far ago)
    Best regards... Arturo

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    Group: dqn-list Message: 2208 From: Esko Halttunen Date: 7/25/2005
    Subject: Re: Player Races and Gnomes
    Hello!

    Arturo Algueiro Melo wrote:

    >
    >On the topic about "races", they are really races because interracial
    >breeding is possible. If not, they are "species" (or that I've been told
    >in my biology class, far far ago)
    >Best regards... Arturo
    >

    That's essentially correct, but there are instances when two different
    species can and have interbred and produced viable offspring. Some
    examples are the common housecat and the Asian leopard cat, the
    resulting offspring of which is the Bengal cat breed (occurs naturally
    in the Asian leopard cat habitat). First generation Bengals are funny in
    that only females are viable (though not always), and around 99% of
    males are sterile. Bred with either housecats or leopard cats, they
    produce viable offspring.

    Bengal cats can also be bred with servals, to produce what is called the
    Savannah cat breed, which again is viable. It is notable that servals
    are not interfertile with either housecats or Asian leopard cats, but
    are interfertile with Bengals, which are a crossbreed. Reagarding
    Bengals, Asian leopard cats and housecats, Asian leopard cats have one
    more vertebra in their spine than housecats, and Bengals also exhibit
    this physical feature, so they are not pure cats even when bred with
    housecats several generations down. They also have far greater
    musculature than a comparably sized housecat.

    Another example of fertile interspecies breeding is lions and tigers.
    Offspring of male lion and female tiger is called liger, and grows to
    huge sizes (males almost up to 15 feet long) due to male lions having a
    growth boosting gene whose growth inhibiting counterpart (that female
    lions have) is not present in female tigers. Offspring from a male tiger
    and a female lion are called tigons and tend to be runt-sized compared
    to their parents because of the growth inhibitor gene from the mother
    and no corresponding booster gene from the father. As far as I know,
    both tigons and ligers are fertile.

    In this context, I tend to see humans, dwarves, elves, halflings, orcs,
    hobgoblins and other such creatures that share a great number of
    physical features as being separate but very closely related species
    that are at least somewhat interfertile with each other. Meaning that
    not every possible pairing combination would work, but most would, such
    as human/elf, human/orc, dwarf/gnome, gnome/halfling, possibly also
    others, but that would be up to the GM.

    This is also why I hate the term race, because it does not reflect
    enough differences between the gcreatures. In most fantasy the creatures
    that are called different races are actually different enough to be
    labeled separate species, even though interfertile along the lines of
    the feline examples provided. And therefore I will not use the
    inaccurate term.

    Hopefully you all found something worthwhile in this rather long post of
    mine. :-)

    Edi