One of the early campaign rules I established was that gunpowder was
not going to be present in the game. I may have stretched or violated
that rule when the party traveled to the China/Japan cognate and
observed some skyrockets at one point.

I took an Amber-like approach (ie gunpowder doesn't work here) and it
has never been an issue or a concern.

On the other hand, a friend of mine created some basic pistol and
musket rules, and then ran a short DQ campaign with those. My
character was a highwayman who carried a couple of pistols. They took
forever to load (12 rounds, I think), and weren't super accurate, but
they did huge damage if they hit something. It was a fun variant for
the little bit of time we played it.

--Rodger

> We also had a standing ground rule that no one could
> "accidentally" invent gunpowder, since firearms
> quickly make obsolete all armor and most bows, not to

>From: Steven Wiles <mortdemuerte@yahoo.com>
>On the other hand, my old GM had a pretty good point
>about Mechanician. He treated the Mechanician
>profession as more of an artistic one than a practical
>one. He said that in a world with functional magic,
>engineering would most likely never really get a hold.
> Anything that you can do with a machine, you can do
>with magic easier and probably better. Granted, DQ
>magic is more... unreliable, but if its use already
>has established precedence, it's going to be hard to
>market your clunky mechanical device as a replacement.
> Wizards do make stiff competition on the market.

One thing your old GM probably didn't consider (or realize) was the fact
that populated areas like towns are almost always low-mana regions. I don't
recall if the rules ever actually say so, but our group interpreted that as
evidence that the available magical energy in any given place gets used up
if too many people try to tap it too often. Population centers, having more
Adepts per square foot...well, the conclusion is obvious.

So in our campaigns, it was notoriously difficult/expensive to find NPC
Adepts "in town" who were willing to do magic for purposes other than their
own. Also, because of magic's unreliable nature (as you mentioned), there
was always a kind of cultural assumption that you didn't use it for things
that weren't Very, Very Important. (One of the ways you could tell that a
combat situation had turned desperate from the PCs' point of view was if our
Adepts started casting spells.) With those assumptions in mind,
Mechanicians make perfect sense as tradesmen. :-)

-Cameron

I'm glad that there's some interest.

I've been reluctant to jump into this too heavily, because I wasn't
sure if anyone else would be interested.

I hope we can find a couple of additional contributors, and maybe
we'll come up with something that will develop a bit of a life of its own.

--Rodger

--- In dqn-list@yahoogroups.com, "dbarrass_2000" <david.barrass@e...>
wrote:

>
> > I have been
> > gathering together all of the information from "Albion: Land of
> > Faerie" (Ares #11) in order to do as David Ritchie suggested and use
> > it as a DQ campaign setting.
> > --Rodger
>
> I intend to include some of the Albion stuff as she grows up. I posted
> "Adventures in Albion" (Ares #12) as a PDF in the files section and
>
> So I would be interested in co-opperating in this (time permitting).
>
> David

This just reminded me that I did run of a brief DQ campaign in Fritz
Leiber's Lankhmar. It got a little chaotic when the Fire Mage got a job
rooting out a Troll in the Sewer System (it had something to do with
about trapped pockets of methane gas).

Soon after the Greater Summoner released a Succubus on the Thieves'
Guild and then the party left town.

JohnR

-----Original Message-----
From: D. Cameron King [mailto:monarchy2000@hotmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 2:49 PM
To: dqn-list@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [DQN-list] Re: DQ Campaign Worlds



One thing your old GM probably didn't consider (or realize) was the fact

that populated areas like towns are almost always low-mana regions. I
don't
recall if the rules ever actually say so, but our group interpreted that
as
evidence that the available magical energy in any given place gets used
up
if too many people try to tap it too often. Population centers, having
more
Adepts per square foot...well, the conclusion is obvious.

Cameron

On Apr 6, 2005, at 11:01 PM, dqn-list@yahoogroups.com wrote:

> What kinds of other societies are you referring to? I'm trying to
> think of
> some, and all I can come up with is some kind of pseudo-historical
> campaign
> (like the Roman Empire with magic, for example)...but in that case, *of
> course* Alusia would be useless, so you must mean something else.

Well, at the time, certainly, my world was high fantasy and very
Tolkien-inspired, for sure. But then I started to develop worlds that
were more centered in Bronze-Age culture and technology. Where people
weren't as literate, and as many have pointed out, DQ pretty much
assumes that the world has a strong degree of literacy (at least in the
magical professions). The very use of the word 'college' for instance.
Language has real power (Namers, unite!)

And since I really wanted situations where religion was much more
prominent (in fact, I now fully believe that any fantasy game where
religion and divine presence isn't dealt with on a system level is
flawed beyond playability (for me, anyway). That is most probably due
to extensive reading I've done of Joe Campbell's work, to be sure.

So, I wanted a world that mimicked Troy rather than Rivendell and
Shamans were just as powerful as priests and they were just as powerful
as sorcerers. DQ's magic system (while I still loved it and love it to
this day) just didn't support the stories I wanted to tell. I also
believe, philosophically, that story and system are one.

Chris

One of my favorite books to go to for inspiration is "The Dictionary
of Imaginary Places".

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/
-/0156008726/ref=lpr_g_1/102-2544207-5076165?v=glance&s=books

Whenever I was stuck for an adventure hook I would pull it off the
shelf and just browse through it until something would provide that
concept or inspiration I needed for an adventure.

I highly recommend this book to anyone interested in RPGs or fantasy
literature.

-Phil

> I seriously consider retiring to New Zealand, if
> you all are still playing (and my government
> hasn't made Americans globally unwelcome by then).

The latter is way more likely than the former. :-)

> I personally would love to hear about the origins of
> the group. Who were the original players? Was it a
> group of college friends who stayed near the campus
> and just kept playing?

I think it just started as a small group of friends who played together when
they first got second edition. The group slowly added a few more people
until it was two groups, then slowly formed the structure we have today. I
am but a recent edition to the NZ game, I have only been playing for 14
years :)

The major thing about the way we play is that TOS (Top Out Syndrome)
actually becomes a force within the game. Characters are around long enough
to actually get to a point where EP is meaninless and there is nothing left
to improve on the character, so the higher end characters gain abilities and
items that change them beyond the rules. Trying to maintain a balance of
giving characters things to do and improve while staying withing the
boundries of a multi-GM world is quite tricky and many of our rule changes
and tweaks reflect that.

Mandos
/s

Phil,

You actually have a draft of the World Generation Supplement! If so,
can you post a scan of it? This would be a significant addition to
available Dragonquest materials even if it is only in draft form.

Cheers

-Sean

Phil Wright wrote:

> --- "Rich Spainhour, M.Sc., MAJ, USA"
> <crspain@earthlink.net> wrote:
> > For which I would gladly pay an embarrassing amount
> > of money. :)
>
> Oh really? So how much per scanned page are you
> willing to pay? I'll get my scanner fired up. :)
>
> -Phil
>
>
> __________________________________________________
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>
>

As a supplement to this great book, I also use "Encyclopedia of Things
That Never Were" by Robert Ingpen, Michael Page

Editorial Reviews

From Library Journal
This comprehensive compilation references myths and fantasies from
around the world and spanning human history. Detailed yet succinct, the
very readable articles are collected under seven topics? e.g, the
cosmos, the ground and the underground and arranged alphabetically by
subject. The diverse coverage examines myriad imagined powers and
creatures from historical, sociological, cultural, and artistic
perspectives, and while many of the ghosts, wizards, gremlins, gods,
fairies, and so forth are familiar, many more, e.g., Hyperborea, Alulei,
and Phaeton, are not. Each article summarizes the identity, definition,
and aspects of the entity, drawing on material derived from classic
studies in myth and lore. The illustrations are extraordinary. Though
the format is somewhat ungainly for a reference source, and cross
references are absent, this book is a rich treasury. The Australian
authors, who have written several monographs on mysteries, gnomes, and
weird tales of land and sea, have demonstrated a remarkable grasp of the
narrative elements of folklore, fables, and belief systems. A
significant contribution to all collections in fantasy and allied
genres. Richard K. Burns, MSLS, Hatboro, PA
Copyright 1999 Reed Business Information, Inc.--This text refers to the
Paperback edition.

-----Original Message-----
From: darkislephil [mailto:darkislephil@yahoo.com]
Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 10:08 PM
To: dqn-list@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DQN-list] Re: great books for adventure ideas

One of my favorite books to go to for inspiration is "The Dictionary
of Imaginary Places".

--- In dqn-list@yahoogroups.com, "D. Cameron King" <monarchy2000@h...>
wrote:

> One thing your old GM probably didn't consider (or realize)
> was the fact that populated areas like towns are almost
> always low-mana regions. I don't recall if the rules ever
> actually say so, but our group interpreted that as evidence
> that the available magical energy in any given place gets
> used up if too many people try to tap it too often.
> Population centers, having more Adepts per square foot...
> well, the conclusion is obvious.

27.1 says, "If the character is in area designated
"mana poor" by the GM, the Fatigue Cost to
cast a spell is doubled. Such areas will be much
more common and will often include the more
civilized and densely-inhabited parts of the
world."

Doesn't really establish a causal relationship though the suggestion
is there. Another explanation is that wierd things and wierd
creatures tend to be more common around high mana areas so the general
populace would want to stay away from them.

The unpublished World Generation expanded upon the concept of high and
low mana areas to rate them from 0 to 10. 0 to 5 would be considered
low, 6 to 8 medium and 9 & 10 considered high. It noted that 80-90%
of DQ worlds would fall into the 7 to 8 range.

--- In dqn-list@yahoogroups.com, Sean Butcher <sean@b...> wrote:

> You actually have a draft of the World Generation Supplement! If so,
> can you post a scan of it? This would be a significant addition to
> available Dragonquest materials even if it is only in draft form.

Sean,

I'm not really comfortable with doing that until I can get some
feedback from Steve Jackson on it. I'm working on getting that.

If I can get permission to release it I will certainly make it
available to the list.

Phil

--- In dqn-list@yahoogroups.com, John Rauchert <john.rauchert@s...> wrote:

> As a supplement to this great book, I also use "Encyclopedia of Things
> That Never Were" by Robert Ingpen, Michael Page
>

Sounds great. I just ordered a copy.

- Phil

> Stupid trivia question: In addition to the number of us who created
> unpublished RPGs, how many of us were in bands at one time?

Yes, I am also in a band, and I do work in games, so yes to both as
well.
www.deussex.com if anyone is interested. Sorry, no cool adventures.

On the games side, besides Morrowind, does anybody know of an RPG
that
used DQ as a basis for the game? Anybody know how to wrestle the
rights from TSR/WOTC/Hasbro or whoever they are now? I thought
someone
mentioned they wanted 6 figures. I've been working on a new game that
has no rules yet and there's a lot to like about DQ. From a computer
game standpoint, I like that it is formula based and not table based.

--- In dqn-list@yahoogroups.com, Martin Gallo <martimer@m...> wrote:
> Is there any place we can go to hear a sample of your music?
>
> > Ok, when you're ready go to
> > http://www.magnetmusic.xbuild.com/ and click on
> > "non-music" on the left. There is one adventure notes
> > document in MS Word format, and one accompanying map
> > (crudely done in MS Paint). I thought about emailing
> > them, but I don't know how everyone would feel about
> > unexpected attachments showing up. If someone else
> > wants to add these to an adventure repository
> > elsewhere, please do.
>
> Stupid trivia question: In addition to the number of us who created
> unpublished RPGs, how many of us were in bands at one time?
>
> I will fess up to both.
>
> Marty
>
>
>
> "Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't
> matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss
>
> Love is a full time job, with fringe benefits.
>
> "Learn from the mistakes of others. You won't live long enough to
make
> them all yourself."

Let's get the stuff in Ares 11 in to the files section (or the new
adventures site), then we can see if any more are interested from
that. I've got the mag, and map, but all my playing pieces are punched
out. So unless the CD of all Ares mags has this already We'll have to
scan it between us

David

--- In dqn-list@yahoogroups.com, "rthorm" <rthorm@c...> wrote:
>
> I'm glad that there's some interest.
>
> I've been reluctant to jump into this too heavily, because I wasn't
> sure if anyone else would be interested.
>
> I hope we can find a couple of additional contributors, and maybe
> we'll come up with something that will develop a bit of a life of
its own.
>
> --Rodger
>
> --- In dqn-list@yahoogroups.com, "dbarrass_2000" <david.barrass@e...>
> wrote:
> >
> > > I have been
> > > gathering together all of the information from "Albion: Land of
> > > Faerie" (Ares #11) in order to do as David Ritchie suggested and use
> > > it as a DQ campaign setting.
> > > --Rodger
> >
> > I intend to include some of the Albion stuff as she grows up. I posted
> > "Adventures in Albion" (Ares #12) as a PDF in the files section and
> >
> > So I would be interested in co-opperating in this (time permitting).
> >
> > David

So what are you running/playing in these days?

I agree about the religion thing and it distressed me so much that I
went and did it for DQ. Although I am an atheist I'm aware that it
was one of the prime moving forces for thousands of years. Now
there's a "real" DQ person I feel even more nervous about putting it
forward, but I guess that any criticism of it can only improve it.
I've made the mistake of re-reading the Golden Bough so it's getting a
few more bits added to it just now. The current version is 1.2 and is
in the files section of DQ-rules. 1.3 in a week or so

David

--- In dqn-list@yahoogroups.com, Chris Klug <eaglewing@m...> wrote:
> Cameron
>
> On Apr 6, 2005, at 11:01 PM, dqn-list@yahoogroups.com wrote:
>
> > What kinds of other societies are you referring to? I'm trying to
> > think of
> > some, and all I can come up with is some kind of pseudo-historical
> > campaign
> > (like the Roman Empire with magic, for example)...but in that
case, *of
> > course* Alusia would be useless, so you must mean something else.
>
> Well, at the time, certainly, my world was high fantasy and very
> Tolkien-inspired, for sure. But then I started to develop worlds that
> were more centered in Bronze-Age culture and technology. Where people
> weren't as literate, and as many have pointed out, DQ pretty much
> assumes that the world has a strong degree of literacy (at least in the
> magical professions). The very use of the word 'college' for instance.
> Language has real power (Namers, unite!)
>
> And since I really wanted situations where religion was much more
> prominent (in fact, I now fully believe that any fantasy game where
> religion and divine presence isn't dealt with on a system level is
> flawed beyond playability (for me, anyway). That is most probably due
> to extensive reading I've done of Joe Campbell's work, to be sure.
>
> So, I wanted a world that mimicked Troy rather than Rivendell and
> Shamans were just as powerful as priests and they were just as powerful
> as sorcerers. DQ's magic system (while I still loved it and love it to
> this day) just didn't support the stories I wanted to tell. I also
> believe, philosophically, that story and system are one.
>
> Chris

---

Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!

All

> I agree about the religion thing and it distressed me so much that I
> went and did it for DQ. Although I am an atheist I'm aware that it
> was one of the prime moving forces for thousands of years. Now
> there's a "real" DQ person I feel even more nervous about putting it
> forward, but I guess that any criticism of it can only improve it.
> I've made the mistake of re-reading the Golden Bough so it's getting a
> few more bits added to it just now. The current version is 1.2 and is
> in the files section of DQ-rules. 1.3 in a week or so

I'd love to see it. And it certainly isn't anything to be cautious
about. After 25 years, I'm less of a DQ expert than most of you are.

Chris

PS I assume that you all get the connection between my email address
and DQ, right?

Version 1.2 is at:-
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dq-rules/files/Cathedral/
You may need to register to get on to it as you did for this group.
If not I'm happy to email it. The Cathedral bit comes from the Yahoo
group that spawned it

We can't see all your email, to us you are <eaglewing@...> :--)

David

--- In dqn-list@yahoogroups.com, Chris Klug <eaglewing@m...> wrote:
> All
>
> > I agree about the religion thing and it distressed me so much that I
> > went and did it for DQ. Although I am an atheist I'm aware that it
> > was one of the prime moving forces for thousands of years. Now
> > there's a "real" DQ person I feel even more nervous about putting it
> > forward, but I guess that any criticism of it can only improve it.
> > I've made the mistake of re-reading the Golden Bough so it's getting a
> > few more bits added to it just now. The current version is 1.2 and is
> > in the files section of DQ-rules. 1.3 in a week or so
>
> I'd love to see it. And it certainly isn't anything to be cautious
> about. After 25 years, I'm less of a DQ expert than most of you are.
>
> Chris
>
> PS I assume that you all get the connection between my email address
> and DQ, right?

Cameron

On Apr 6, 2005, at 11:01 PM, dqn-list@yahoogroups.com wrote:

> What kinds of other societies are you referring to?  I'm trying to
> think of
> some, and all I can come up with is some kind of pseudo-historical
> campaign
> (like the Roman Empire with magic, for example)...but in that case, *of
> course* Alusia would be useless, so you must mean something else.

Well, at the time, certainly, my world was high fantasy and very
Tolkien-inspired, for sure.  But then I started to develop worlds that
were more centered in Bronze-Age culture and technology.  Where people
weren't as literate, and as many have pointed out, DQ pretty much
assumes that the world has a strong degree of literacy (at least in the
magical professions).  The very use of the word 'college' for instance.
  Language has real power (Namers, unite!)

And since I really wanted situations where religion was much more
prominent (in fact, I now fully believe that any fantasy game where
religion and divine presence isn't dealt with on a system level is
flawed beyond playability (for me, anyway).  That is most probably due
to extensive reading I've done of Joe Campbell's work, to be sure.

So, I wanted a world that mimicked Troy rather than Rivendell and
Shamans were just as powerful as priests and they were just as powerful
as sorcerers.  DQ's magic system (while I still loved it and love it to
this day) just didn't support the stories I wanted to tell.  I also
believe, philosophically, that story and system are one.

Chris

---

Yahoo! Groups Links

• To visit your group on the web, go to:
  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dqn-list/
   
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--- In dqn-list@yahoogroups.com, "dbarrass_2000" <david.barrass@e...>
wrote:

>
> We can't see all your email, to us you are <eaglewing@> :--)

Eaglewing is one of the characters in the example combat in the DQ rules.

-Phil

Attachments :

A complete archive of the work/discussions of the Cathedral list can be found here:

http://johnrauchert.brinkster.net/dq/archive/dqcathedral/dqcarchive1.htm

Included is a link to the files (latest as well as archival)

JohnR

________________________________

From: dbarrass_2000 [mailto:david.barrass@ed.ac.uk]
Sent: Sat 09/04/2005 2:22 AM
To: dqn-list@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DQN-list] Re: Digest Number 363





Version 1.2 is at:-
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dq-rules/files/Cathedral/
You may need to register to get on to it as you did for this group.
If not I'm happy to email it. The Cathedral bit comes from the Yahoo
group that spawned it

We can't see all your email, to us you are <eaglewing@...> :--)

> But I'd love to hear more from the parties who've had success adapting RQ

to DQ or vice versa.

Not RQ but definatly an adaption. I use the Ars Magica source books and
Magics in DQ. The source books provide a really lovely world that includes
both Magic and religeon. In our universe the Church of the Powers of Light
are a Major power in the lands to the north of the frontiers which is where
a lot of games take place so it is great to have source boks that take that
into account.

The Magic books from Ars Magica are excellent for providing odd magics that
differ from the colleges the characters see all the time, so for the
occasional oddity they work perfectly.

Mandos
/s

On Apr 9, 2005, at 6:49 PM, dqn-list@yahoogroups.com wrote:

> Eaglewing is one of the characters in the example combat in the DQ
> rules.
>
> -Phil
>

Exactly. All the names in that combat example were characters either I
created or were played by people in my campaign at the time.

Another useless bit of information.

Chris

On Apr 9, 2005, at 6:49 PM, dqn-list@yahoogroups.com wrote:

> What you say about your priorities reminds me of my own experience.
> I once tried to adapt Griffin Mountain (Runequest) to DQ. For those
> of you who don't know Griffin Mtn, it's a primitive-hunter setting
> where Bronze Age citadels (as in Mycenae) represent the peak of
> civilization, and as with almost anything published for Runequest,
> religions are central to play. Paul Jaquays, of Enchanted Wood
> fame, was one of the writers (by the way, I always thought that the
> Karsus' heart plot in Enchanted Wood had a whiff of Cults of Prax
> about it!)

I remember Paul telling me that he had a particularly hard time getting
his head around the DQ universe as opposed to the RQ universe.

Chris

---

Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!

Wow! You're right. They even make Jingleshod the Iron Axeman a retainer of
Wulgreth.

That's pretty damn cool, in a way...

-Cameron

>From: Unseenlibrarian@aol.com
>Reply-To: dqn-list@yahoogroups.com
>To: dqn-list@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [DQN-list] Speaking of Enchanted Wood...
>Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2005 20:36:36 EDT
>
>...What is the deal with elements of Enchanted Wood being incorporated into
>3rd edition Forgotten Realms? In the core book, there's mention of a forest
>filled with Dire Oaks, where the Archmage-turned-demigod Karsus (Their
>version,
>who was, instead of a conquering hero, someone who died out of hubris)
>stone
>body fell to earth. They even statted up Wulgreth in Ancient Empires,
>though I
>believe he's a lich instead of a wraith.

We adapted a lot of the old Tunnels and Trolls adventures to DQ and used
them for Solo adventures.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mandos Mitchinson" <mandos@allowed.to>
To: <dqn-list@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2005 5:44 PM
Subject: RE: [DQN-list] Digest Number 361


>
>> But I'd love to hear more from the parties who've had success adapting RQ
> to DQ or vice versa.
>
> Not RQ but definatly an adaption. I use the Ars Magica source books and
> Magics in DQ. The source books provide a really lovely world that includes
> both Magic and religeon. In our universe the Church of the Powers of Light
> are a Major power in the lands to the north of the frontiers which is
> where
> a lot of games take place so it is great to have source boks that take
> that
> into account.
>
> The Magic books from Ars Magica are excellent for providing odd magics
> that
> differ from the colleges the characters see all the time, so for the
> occasional oddity they work perfectly.
>
> Mandos
> /s
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

On Apr 8, 2005, at 8:43 PM, Tavision wrote:

> On the games side, besides Morrowind, does anybody know of an RPG
> that used DQ as a basis for the game?

Is this true? I never heard this.

Chris

--- Unseenlibrarian@aol.com wrote:

> ...What is the deal with elements of Enchanted Wood
> being incorporated into
> 3rd edition Forgotten Realms? In the core book,
> there's mention of a forest
> filled with Dire Oaks, where the
> Archmage-turned-demigod Karsus (Their version,
> who was, instead of a conquering hero, someone who
> died out of hubris) stone
> body fell to earth. They even statted up Wulgreth
> in Ancient Empires, though I
> believe he's a lich instead of a wraith.

Well, I guess that TSR did make more use of the DQ
title than just to publish the butchered 3rd edition.
Now I'm curious what other DQ related things got
slipped into FR...?

Mort




__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/

I remember Paul telling me that he had a particularly hard time getting
his head around the DQ universe as opposed to the RQ universe.

Chris

> That surprises me, since Enchanted Wood stands head and shoulders
> above the other published DQ scenarios. Ever since it came out I've
> always kept a place for it in my top 5 list of adventures for any
> system -- a list that's seen many revisions over the years.

There is a difference between a manuscript handed in on deadline and a
published work. We tested it and edited it. Not to take anything away
from Paul, mind you. It was a great design.

Chris

That begs the question....what else is on your list?

Regards,

~Adaen of Bridgewater

--- Trevor Murphy <tmmurphy@b...> wrote:

> That surprises me, since Enchanted Wood stands head and shoulders
> above the other published DQ scenarios. Ever since it came out I've
> always kept a place for it in my top 5 list of adventures for any
> system -- a list that's seen many revisions over the years.

<snip>

Chris Klug wrote:

On Apr 8, 2005, at 8:43 PM, Tavision wrote:

> On the games side, besides Morrowind, does anybody know of an RPG
> that used DQ as a basis for the game?

Is this true?  I never heard this.

Chris

 Hmmm, let's see.... percentile based, individual skill at just about everything and experience pts based on usage for everything
(different attributes with percentile ranges)  The main similarity I am seeing is the spells having their own individual chances and being probabilistic.

-- 
Google Me at : Decision Driven Rolegaming

-- Lance Dyas
The Decision Driven Gaming Center
"Creating a language for describing  how we do things to enable better visualization  in roleplay."
http://www.dyasdesigns.com/roleplay

---

Do you Yahoo!?
Make Yahoo! your home page

Hey gang,

When someone posted I link to Paul Jaquay's site, I decided to send him an
email complimenting him on his DQ work. His response is below.


"John:

Thanks for the compliments. I wrote several game adventures later in
my career, but consider The Enchanted Wood to be one of the best I
did. You may be interested to know that since TSR ended up owning the
SPI content, I eventually incorporated material from The Enchanted
Wood into TSR's Forgotten Realms world. The Savage Frontier and The
Shattered Statue both contain a great deal of material from "The
Wood." Some of it later became part of the ancient mythology of the
Forgotten Realms.

-Paul"

In a subsequent email he said he was playing Rune Quest for a while, but
had lost the fire for table to RPGs several years ago.

JohnC

Powers and Perils is one RPG that I always wanted to try since it
pretty much included all the things I thought should be in an RPG. The
only thing missing was players interested in playing it. Every few
years I read through the rules again, thinking of the possibilities.

Marty


"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't
matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

Love is a full time job, with fringe benefits.

"Learn from the mistakes of others. You won't live long enough to make
them all yourself."

---

Do you Yahoo!?
Make Yahoo! your home page

On Apr 13, 2005, at 10:15 PM, Lance Dyas wrote:

> Chris Klug wrote:
>
>> On Apr 8, 2005, at 8:43 PM, Tavision wrote:
>>
>>> On the games side, besides Morrowind, does anybody know of an RPG
>>> that used DQ as a basis for the game?
>>
>> Is this true? I never heard this.
>>
>> Chris
>
> Hmmm, let's see.... percentile based, individual skill at just about
> everything and experience pts based on usage for everything
> (different attributes with percentile ranges) The main similarity I am
> seeing is the spells having their own individual chances and being
> probabilistic.

That paragraph could also describe RQ III to a 't'. With all due
respect, if that's the basis, I'd have to say that LOTS of systems
influenced Morrowind.

Almost everything is a hybrid these days. I just started playing EQ
II, and it is amazing to me how much they were influenced by Dark Age
and by Earth & Beyond, among others.

We all borrow the good ideas we have encountered.

Chris

Chris Klug wrote:

On Apr 13, 2005, at 10:15 PM, Lance Dyas wrote:

> Chris Klug wrote:
>
>> On Apr 8, 2005, at 8:43 PM, Tavision wrote:
>>
>>> On the games side, besides Morrowind, does anybody know of an RPG
>>> that used DQ as a basis for the game?
>>
>> Is this true?  I never heard this.
>>
>> Chris
>
>  Hmmm, let's see.... percentile based, individual skill at just about
> everything and experience pts based on usage for everything
> (different attributes with percentile ranges)  The main similarity I am
> seeing is the spells having their own individual chances and being
> probabilistic.

That paragraph could also describe RQ III to a 't'.

Agreed...
One other similarity that invokes DQ is the use of Star Signs. and  RQ Spirit and Rune magic are not so chancy
(unless you have low power).

The main attributes being more in a percentile range probably point towards other games
as well though... I am not currently recalling which. 

  With all due
respect, if that's the basis, I'd have to say that LOTS of systems
influenced Morrowind.

Oh I am pretty sure of that.

Almost everything is a hybrid these days.  I just started playing EQ
II, and it is amazing to me how much they were influenced by Dark Age
and by Earth & Beyond, among others.

We all borrow the good ideas we have encountered.

Chris

 

-- 
Google Me at : Decision Driven Rolegaming

-- Lance Dyas
The Decision Driven Gaming Center
"Creating a language for describing  how we do things to enable better visualization  in roleplay."
http://www.dyasdesigns.com/roleplay

I'm completely unfamiliar with RuneQuest. Did RuneQuest feature Runes
and Rune Magic as a major part of the game/world?

The simple answer is yes.

> I'm completely unfamiliar with RuneQuest. Did RuneQuest feature Runes
> and Rune Magic as a major part of the game/world?

"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't
matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

Love is a full time job, with fringe benefits.

"Learn from the mistakes of others. You won't live long enough to make
them all yourself."

On Apr 19, 2005, at 5:26 PM, dqn-list@yahoogroups.com wrote:

> I'm completely unfamiliar with RuneQuest. Did RuneQuest feature Runes
> and Rune Magic as a major part of the game/world?
>
> The simple answer is yes.

Well, that is indeed the simple answer. But they were used quite
differently than DQ used them. They did not have as much direct
interaction with gameplay as they did in Rune Magic. As I'm sitting
here thinking about this, it's hard to quantify. However, I remember
when I worked on my DQ-influenced homebrew RQ system, one of the things
I did was have the inscribing and creating of Runes be more active in
my world than RQ.

This explanation ignores the whole philosophical issue that in RQ, the
Runes were part of the very fabric of reality whereas in DQ, the were
used to control and affect the flow of mana. Very different. RQ was
inherently a world where the gods were tangible. In DQ, the gods were
absent.

Chris

I'm glad to hear that I'm not the only one who thought runes were under utilized in DQ. That is the reason I asked about RuneQuest. I also wanted to create a system/world where runes played a more important role in gaming. Ideally, I wanted to create a system/world where runes were a part of everyday life. (It sounds like my idea isn't too far off from your home-brew RQ system) Unfortunately, every time I sat down to work on it, I realized what an enormous task that would be. Needless to say, it is still on my DQ to do list. Maybe some day...

-- Chris Klug <eaglewing@mac.com> wrote:

On Apr 19, 2005, at 5:26 PM, dqn-list@yahoogroups.com wrote:

> I'm completely unfamiliar with RuneQuest. Did RuneQuest feature Runes
> and Rune Magic as a major part of the game/world?
>
> The simple answer is yes.

Well, that is indeed the simple answer. But they were used quite
differently than DQ used them. They did not have as much direct
interaction with gameplay as they did in Rune Magic. As I'm sitting
here thinking about this, it's hard to quantify. However, I remember
when I worked on my DQ-influenced homebrew RQ system, one of the things
I did was have the inscribing and creating of Runes be more active in
my world than RQ.

This explanation ignores the whole philosophical issue that in RQ, the
Runes were part of the very fabric of reality whereas in DQ, the were
used to control and affect the flow of mana. Very different. RQ was
inherently a world where the gods were tangible. In DQ, the gods were
absent.

Chris




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--- In dqn-list@yahoogroups.com, Chris Klug <eaglewing@m...> wrote:

> ...RQ was inherently a world where the gods were tangible.
> In DQ, the gods were absent.

Chris, you have made mention of religions or the lack of a religious
system within the DQ rules before and even went so far as to say,
IIRC, that a system without rules for religion and/or gods was
inherently flawed.

I don't agree.

But going back to the quote above, what you said is true but it's
practically apples and oranges. RQ was first and foremost a campaign
setting including gods, cultures, history, etc. DQ is a rules system.
One that I always thought lent itself well to almost any campaign
setting. I've run campaigns in FoA that had minor dieties running
around stirring up trouble all over the place while dead gods bided
their time in the wastelands. The campaign we ran set in Harn never
had the actual gods involving themselves but the various priesthoods
were very active and were behind the plots that drove many adventures.
This was without any kind of rules for priests or gods. But we also
had campaigns where gods and religions never came up. The lack of
rules for religions or priests makes DQ easy to use with any campaign
setting.

To my way of thinking as soon as you put in rules for priests or
divine intervention then you have to also describe the religions and
gods that go with them. How can you give abilities or spells to a
priest without describing the diety that would grant them? As soon as
you have gods you must have some kind of creation myth to explain
where these gods, and most likely the world itself, came from. IMO you
must define a campaign setting if you are going to define rules for
priests and dieties otherwise you end up with D&D.

So why is it that you feel a religious system must be present in a game?

Any world, including this one, is full of religions and creation
myths. Religious belief powers so many of the things that happen,
even in our own secular societies. If you have a world without myths
and beliefs you only have maps (I sound like I'm ranting don't I -
sorry). Yes Dieties and Demigods system was a typical Gygax
imposition but I believe that you should have rules that allow
religions to be made, and some example religions to show how the rules
could be used to make a complete world. This is what has been tried
in the Religion system developed in DQ cathedral. You could make
religions work without rules, but that will lead to inconsistencies
unles you're very careful

DQ actually gives some hints, check out the paragraph on consecrated
ground at the beginning of the magic system and some "magic" item
descriptions in Arcane Wisdom.

David

PS like your site, I look from my office window and can see Edinburgh
Castle on one side and a 15th century tower house on the other

<snip>

> To my way of thinking as soon as you put in rules for priests or
> divine intervention then you have to also describe the religions and
> gods that go with them. How can you give abilities or spells to a
> priest without describing the diety that would grant them? As soon as
> you have gods you must have some kind of creation myth to explain
> where these gods, and most likely the world itself, came from. IMO you
> must define a campaign setting if you are going to define rules for
> priests and dieties otherwise you end up with D&D.
>
> So why is it that you feel a religious system must be present in a game?