>Since Cameron brought it up I thought I would stir up some more

>A mage of less than Hero level, more likely than not, is going to

>I don't know how many times we would have some poor shmuck mage

>Because of that mages were usually discouraged from using spells

>So how do others feel about the backfire table? Is it too harsh?

> Someone else mentioned this... How do you handle
> backfire during creation?
> We would roll them all at once. For example, a
> spell caster is investing
> a ring with 5 instances of Bolt of Fire, and a
> necklace with 5 more. SO
> he has to roll each cast chance (with appropriate
> modifiers for ritual of
> purification etc...) and then we roll backfires when
> they come up. But if
> you do purification, and take your time casting the
> spell, the chances of
> backfire go way down.
>
> john
>
> >
> >
> > --- In dqn-list@yahoogroups.com, "Donald
> Hawthorne" <ravenglass@e...>
> > wrote:
> >> 2. My players hated the Backfire rule and hated
> mages until the
> > umpteenth
> >> time I sat them down, held their hands, and
> walked them through the
> >> Investment Rituals system. Now they all have
> staffs, rings, necklaces,
> >> belts, and what-have-you with invested spells,
> >
> > I suspect that without invested items my players
> would have had few or
> > no mages as well. It's not clear from your
> comments but you do know
> > that invested items can backfire? Certainly going
> to be a lesser
> > chance given rituals of purification and taking
> advantage of Aspect or
> > College bonuses.
> >
> > -Phil
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>

>
> thank all of youthat made the enchantedwoods and the palace of
> onticel scans and pdfs avalabal i have been searching for those
> moduals for about 6 yrs now so again thank you very much you
> are GODS

>
> I use the stun rule variably. In combat I don't use it for
> experienced characters. I don't think its realistic, the adrenaline
> and edorphines keep you going. There are tails of pilots in the
> second world war landing thier planes safely then dropping dead of
> their wounds (and what about berserkers). If the choise is dealing
> with the pain or dying then evolution lets you deal with the pain.
>
> Its different in suprise situations or inexperienced players, then it
> really hurts 'cos you're not prepared for it and you might not notice
> the band of orcs shooting you, but even here an experienced
> character's physiology would probaly make them react differently eg
> run away, get under cover, get angry etc
>
> I feel a rule mod comming on to formalise whatI do .... OK
> Either added to a "Warrior Skill" or a new skill "avoiding stun" roll
> under rank on a D10 when hit to avoid becomming stunned - a roll of 10
> always stunned. Chance halved if suprised
> How about mages: can't use this skill or MA is subtacted from chance
> in some way as mages are more in tune with the world....?
> Any other ideas?
>
> David
>
> --- In dqn-list@yahoogroups.com, "darkislephil" <darkislephil@y...>

> >
> > --- In dqn-list@yahoogroups.com, "D. Cameron King" <monarchy2000@h...>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > We always used it, per the rules (2nd edition--though
> > > it's worth mentioning that the rule is different
> > > in the two different 2nd edition rulebooks, and I
> > > can't recall which one we followed).
> >
> > I just double-checked my Bantam 2nd vs the TSR 3rd and I see that in
> > the 3rd the recovery roll was increased to 3xWill. I inclined to
> > think that this is a one of the good changes in the 3rd edition.
> >
> > > It *is* one of the nastiest combat rules, but it's also one of
> > > the few reasons to care much about your WP score.
> >
> > To me this was one of the best arguments for using it because, as you
> > say, WP just isn't that important to most characters otherwise.
> >
> > > And we liked the effect that "fear of being stunned" had on
> > > us in combat.
> >
> > In general we didn't need any additional reasons to avoid combat. DQ
> > combat is already deadly to PCs. :)
> >
> > > Frankly, I've always felt that one of the best things about DQ is
> > > that--exhilirating as combat is--there is considerable motivation to
> > avoid
> > > unnecessary violence (because even a little bad luck can result in
> > > disastrous consequences). It definitely enhances the "realism,"

> >
> > I hear you and I agree that one of the best elements of DQ is that
> > unlike many level based RPGs the always present threat of death in any
> > combat adds an edge to it that is missing in those other games. It
> > just always seemed that the stun rule pushed it past exhilirating and
> > dangerous right in to frustrating. The PCs are the heros. This is
> > high-fantasy, swords and sorcery. They are supposed to be able to
> > take on multiple minions of evil and come away the victors even if a
> > little battered and bloody. But when the PCs are all stunned with
> > their weapons laying on the ground in the first couple rounds of
> > combat they don't feel so heroic. And it will happen all too often
> > because the minions will always outnumber the good guys.
> >
> > One more thing. In our campaigns almost no characters wore any armor
> > above leather and no magic armor. The weight of the heavier armors,
> > which caused agility & fatigue loss, combined with the normal armor
> > agility loss tended to discourage the wearing of higher protection
> > armors. So in our campaigns avg hits with many weapons were enough to
> > stun the PCs who being PCs never make their recovery rolls.
> >
> > In any case not trying to make any converts so much as explore my own
> > thoughts and those of others on the issue. The stun rule is just one
> > of the few parts of DQ I have never been "comfortable" with so it
> > seemed a good choice to start some discussion.
> >
> > I am inclined to give it another try using the 3rd editions 3xWill+Fat
> > rule.

>What about the rest of you? Did you apply the full armor agility and
>weight penalties? What about sleeping in armor?

> >What about the rest of you? Did you apply the full armor agility and
> >weight penalties? What about sleeping in armor?
>
> We played DQ "by the book." The combined AG penalties (and their

> TMR) were a major reason most players preferred leather armor to any

On Mar 19, 2005, at 2:54 PM, darkislephil wrote:

>
>
> --- In dqn-list@yahoogroups.com, "D. Cameron King" <monarchy2000@h...>
> wrote:
>>> What about the rest of you? Did you apply the full armor agility and
>>> weight penalties? What about sleeping in armor?
>>
>> We played DQ "by the book." The combined AG penalties (and their
> effect on
>> TMR) were a major reason most players preferred leather armor to any
> other.
>
> Absolutely though the rules have nothing to say about sleeping in
> armor AFAIK. To ban sleeping in armor would be a purely arbitrary
> rule on the part of the GM/group.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>

> I simply shifted the encumbrance chart one column to make
> it a little less restrictive.

> JohnC
> On Mar 19, 2005, at 2:54 PM, darkislephil wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > --- In dqn-list@yahoogroups.com, "D. Cameron King" <monarchy2000@h...>
> > wrote:
> >>> What about the rest of you? Did you apply the full armor

> >>> weight penalties? What about sleeping in armor?
> >>
> >> We played DQ "by the book." The combined AG penalties (and their
> > effect on
> >> TMR) were a major reason most players preferred leather armor to any
> > other.
> >
> > Absolutely though the rules have nothing to say about sleeping in
> > armor AFAIK. To ban sleeping in armor would be a purely arbitrary
> > rule on the part of the GM/group.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >

>Given the frequency with which I could roll 99s and break all my
>weapons I commonly would learn as many as a dozen of the most common
>weapons found out there in the hands of our foes. Often didn't get
>more than Rank 0 with them but didn't want to have to pick up a
>strange weapon in the middle of a dungeon and fight without being able
>to add MD to the strike chance.
>
>What about you guys? Did you stick with 2 or 3 favorites or go for
>the gusto?

>Some of the reasons that players in our campaigns avoided the better
>armor types was the negative agility mods and also the weight, which
>meant more negative agility mods from encumbrance.
>
>The combined penalties seem a bit too harsh to me and so I used a
>house rule where only half the weight of worn armor counted against
>encumbrance. For example, chainmail is 42 lbs for humans. If a
>character was wearing the armor it only counted as 21 lbs for
>encumbrance purposes.
>
>One of the other ideas I had but never got around to implementing was
>the idea of an armor wearing skill. For the different levels of armor
>a character would have to be ranked sufficiently to wear it.
>
>Rank 0 - Cloth or Heavy Furs
>Rank 1 - Leather
>Rank 2 - Scale & Chain
>Rank 3 - Partial Plate
>Rank 4 - Full & Improved Plate
>
>Having rank in the skill would reduce the Agility penalty by (Rank-2) pts.
>
>Another possible benefit for the skill would be allowing the recovery
>of fatigue while wearing armor. In our campaigns we didn't allow
>characters to sleep in armor better than leather. A possible rule
>would be that at the rank required for wearing the armor the character
>could sleep in the armor but only recover at the normal Resting rate
>of 1 FT/hr. With Rank + 1 the character could recover at the Nap rate
>of 2 FT/hr. At Rank + 2 the character could sleep normally and
>recover the usual 3 FT/hr. Full rest and recovery would only be
>possible for armor requiring rank 2 or less.
>
>For skill cost I was thinking along the lines of 2x the shield xp costs.
>
>Still don't know if I really like the idea or not.
>
>What about the rest of you? Did you apply the full armor agility and
>weight penalties? What about sleeping in armor?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

> Something that should be noted about the armor penalties: While plate
> armor typically weighs more than chain, it would in the real world be
> less cumbersome to wear and move in (unless you fall down), and the
> reason is that since it must be fitted to the individual and the
> mechanism by which it is strapped on, its weight distribution is much
> more even.

> ...in my campaigns, I've had the full penalties, but
> I actually like the half weight idea. :-)

As gaming opportunities became fewer and farther between I started
playing MMORPGs.  None of those that I have tried have come close to
the DQ experience.  In no small part because they are mostly modeled
after DnD.  Another reason I believe is because MMORPGs business model
requires the customers to keep paying that monthly fee.  The
motivation for the players is watching those level counters ding on a
semi-regular basis. So invariably the games break down to grinding for
levels.  Character development is primarily acquiring the most optimum
gear.

Of the games I have played, Asheron's Call 1&2, Dark Age of Camelot,
Horizons, Star Wars Galaxy, City of Heroes and currently World of
Warcraft, only AC1 had any of the feel of DQ.  The ability to pick and
choose any skills and allocate stats any way you liked was certainly
reminiscent of DQ even to the ability to allocate earned XP how you
chose.  That's pretty much where the similarity ended.

To me the heart of DQ is that it doesn't focus on leveling and XP but
on adventure.  A new character can join an experienced group and not
feel like they can't contribute whether that contribution is in combat
or adventuring skills.

Could a MMORPG duplicate the DQ experience AND be commercially successful?

What do y'all think?  What MMORPGs do you like?

---

Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!

----- Original Message -----

From: Jason Honhera

To: dqn-list@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2005 17:39

Subject: Re: [DQN-list] DQ and MMORPGs

I liked Dark Age best for fantasy, but never tried AC. Dark Age is based on Rolemaster, so is very far from DQ.  I am currently loving City of Heroes because it really does capture the comic book feel.  Many people scoff at the way I play and I certainly don't speed through the levels, but I play to see my character work and to experience the storylines.  The grinders just don't get that...

 

darkislephil <darkislephil@yahoo.com> wrote:

As gaming opportunities became fewer and farther between I started
playing MMORPGs.  None of those that I have tried have come close to
the DQ experience.  In no small part because they are mostly modeled
after DnD.  Another reason I believe is because MMORPGs business model
requires the customers to keep paying that monthly fee.  The
motivation for the players is watching those level counters ding on a
semi-regular basis. So invariably the games break down to grinding for
levels.  Character development is primarily acquiring the most optimum
gear.

Of the games I have played, Asheron's Call 1&2, Dark Age of Camelot,
Horizons, Star Wars Galaxy, City of Heroes and currently World of
Warcraft, only AC1 had any of the feel of DQ.  The ability to pick and
choose any skills and allocate stats any way ! you liked was certainly
reminiscent of DQ even to the ability to allocate earned XP how you
chose.  That's pretty much where the similarity ended.

To me the heart of DQ is that it doesn't focus on leveling and XP but
on adventure.  A new character can join an experienced group and not
feel like they can't contribute whether that contribution is in combat
or adventuring skills.

Could a MMORPG duplicate the DQ experience AND be commercially successful?

What do y'all think?  What MMORPGs do you like?

---

Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!

----- Original Message -----
From: <dqn-list@yahoogroups.com>
To: <dqn-list@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 27, 2005 9:08 PM
Subject: [DQN-list] Digest Number 352


>
> There are 2 messages in this issue.
>
> Topics in this digest:
>
> 1. Re: DQ and MMORPGs
> From: Jason Honhera <albavar@yahoo.com>
> 2. Re: DQ and MMORPGs
> From: "Scott Knowles" <scott.knowles@charter.net>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 17:39:11 -0800 (PST)
> From: Jason Honhera <albavar@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: DQ and MMORPGs
>
> I liked Dark Age best for fantasy, but never tried AC. Dark Age is based
on Rolemaster, so is very far from DQ. I am currently loving City of Heroes
because it really does capture the comic book feel. Many people scoff at
the way I play and I certainly don't speed through the levels, but I play to
see my character work and to experience the storylines. The grinders just
don't get that...
>
>
>
> darkislephil <darkislephil@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> As gaming opportunities became fewer and farther between I started
> playing MMORPGs. None of those that I have tried have come close to
> the DQ experience. In no small part because they are mostly modeled
> after DnD. Another reason I believe is because MMORPGs business model
> requires the customers to keep paying that monthly fee. The
> motivation for the players is watching those level counters ding on a
> semi-regular basis. So invariably the games break down to grinding for
> levels. Character development is primarily acquiring the most optimum
> gear.
>
> Of the games I have played, Asheron's Call 1&2, Dark Age of Camelot,
> Horizons, Star Wars Galaxy, City of Heroes and currently World of
> Warcraft, only AC1 had any of the feel of DQ. The ability to pick and
> choose any skills and allocate stats any way you liked was certainly
> reminiscent of DQ even to the ability to allocate earned XP how you
> chose. That's pretty much where the similarity ended.
>
> To me the heart of DQ is that it doesn't focus on leveling and XP but
> on adventure. A new character can join an experienced group and not
> feel like they can't contribute whether that contribution is in combat
> or adventuring skills.
>
> Could a MMORPG duplicate the DQ experience AND be commercially successful?
>
> What do y'all think? What MMORPGs do you like?
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dqn-list/
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> dqn-list-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
>
> [This message contained attachments]
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 23:20:07 -0800
> From: "Scott Knowles" <scott.knowles@charter.net>
> Subject: Re: DQ and MMORPGs
>
> I have tried several of the graphics based games, but I never experienced
the RP I got from a FtF game, except for Dragon's Gate, which is actually
Text based, the RP there has kept me going back to it when in dire need of
some gaming and no FtF was possible (such as when I got married and for
quite awhile after each of my children was born).
>
> Scott
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Jason Honhera
> To: dqn-list@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2005 17:39
> Subject: Re: [DQN-list] DQ and MMORPGs
>
>
> I liked Dark Age best for fantasy, but never tried AC. Dark Age is based
on Rolemaster, so is very far from DQ. I am currently loving City of Heroes
because it really does capture the comic book feel. Many people scoff at
the way I play and I certainly don't speed through the levels, but I play to
see my character work and to experience the storylines. The grinders just
don't get that...
>
>
>
> darkislephil <darkislephil@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> As gaming opportunities became fewer and farther between I started
> playing MMORPGs. None of those that I have tried have come close to
> the DQ experience. In no small part because they are mostly modeled
> after DnD. Another reason I believe is because MMORPGs business model
> requires the customers to keep paying that monthly fee. The
> motivation for the players is watching those level counters ding on a
> semi-regular basis. So invariably the games break down to grinding for
> levels. Character development is primarily acquiring the most optimum
> gear.
>
> Of the games I have played, Asheron's Call 1&2, Dark Age of Camelot,
> Horizons, Star Wars Galaxy, City of Heroes and currently World of
> Warcraft, only AC1 had any of the feel of DQ. The ability to pick and
> choose any skills and allocate stats any way ! you liked was certainly
> reminiscent of DQ even to the ability to allocate earned XP how you
> chose. That's pretty much where the similarity ended.
>
> To me the heart of DQ is that it doesn't focus on leveling and XP but
> on adventure. A new character can join an experienced group and not
> feel like they can't contribute whether that contribution is in combat
> or adventuring skills.
>
> Could a MMORPG duplicate the DQ experience AND be commercially
successful?
>
> What do y'all think? What MMORPGs do you like?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ADVERTISEMENT
>
>
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dqn-list/
>
> b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> dqn-list-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
>
> [This message contained attachments]
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>

> I revise my opinion on OCR packages and maintaining layout. I am
> currently reviewing ABBYY FineReader 7.0 Pro and it does a decent job of
> maintaining layout as well as good character recognition from a PDF
> document.

> Now I just have to justify to myself expending 400+ dollars Canadian to
> purchase a license.

--- In dqn-list@yahoogroups.com, Chris Klug <eaglewing@m...> wrote:
>
> Greetings, all.
>
> I just joined the group. in fact, I just found out about it a few
days
> ago.
>
> I was wondering whether any of you still play DQ much anymore?
>
> Gerard Christopher Klug

>
>
>Greetings, all.
>
>I just joined the group. in fact, I just found out about it a few days
>ago.
>
>I was wondering whether any of you still play DQ much anymore?
>
>Gerard Christopher Klug
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

> I just joined the group. in fact, I just found out about it a few days
> ago.
>
> I was wondering whether any of you still play DQ much anymore?

>
> Greetings, all.
>
> I just joined the group. in fact, I just found out about it a few days
> ago.
>
> I was wondering whether any of you still play DQ much anymore?
>
> Gerard Christopher Klug

>
>
> Greetings, all.
>
> I just joined the group. in fact, I just found out about it a few days
> ago.
>
> I was wondering whether any of you still play DQ much anymore?
>
> Gerard Christopher Klug
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

by DQ do you mean dragon quest but yes i do play dragon quest and the roleplay group is still meeting every week with around 8 members

---

Whatever you Wanadoo

This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more here

--- In dqn-list@yahoogroups.com, Chris Klug <eaglewing@m...> wrote:
>
> Greetings, all.
>
> I just joined the group. in fact, I just found out about it a few days
> ago.
>
> I was wondering whether any of you still play DQ much anymore?
>
> Gerard Christopher Klug

>I was wondering whether any of you still play DQ much anymore?

--- In dqn-list@yahoogroups.com, Chris Klug <eaglewing@m...> wrote:
>
> Greetings, all.
>
> I just joined the group. in fact, I just found out about it a few days
> ago.
>
> I was wondering whether any of you still play DQ much anymore?
>
> Gerard Christopher Klug

--- In dqn-list@yahoogroups.com, Chris Klug <eaglewing@m...> wrote:
>
> Greetings, all.
>
> I just joined the group. in fact, I just found out about it a few days
> ago.
>
> I was wondering whether any of you still play DQ much anymore?
>
> Gerard Christopher Klug

> I do play DQ, intermittantly. I GM for my wife and children.
>
> A question I'm itching to ask is do who have any DQ stuff left over
> fromyour SPI days?
>
> David
>
> PS thanks for a great system
>
> --- In dqn-list@yahoogroups.com, Chris Klug <eaglewing@m...> wrote:
> >
> > Greetings, all.
> >
> > I just joined the group. in fact, I just found out about it a

> > ago.
> >
> > I was wondering whether any of you still play DQ much anymore?
> >
> > Gerard Christopher Klug

> <snip>
> Are the other DQ groups worth subscribing to?

> I'll take a look at the players association, for sure.
>
> The biggest 'lost' document was Arcane Wisdom, but I assume you've all
> got that one.
>
> How many of you use the rules straight, as opposed to wholesale
> changes? I mean, we all tinker, but I'd be curious what has stood the
> ravages of time...

> Have any of you heard of the second unpublished fantasy RPG that
> Goldberg and Woods were working on? I playtested it, and am curious
> whether word of that has leaked out over the years.

>From: Chris Klug <eaglewing@mac.com>
>How many of you use the rules straight, as opposed to wholesale
>changes? I mean, we all tinker, but I'd be curious what has stood the
>ravages of time...

> I still have my original first edition rules, preserved as they saw
> a lot of use.

>
> I once tried to re-write the combat system (sorry), it actually worked
> out to be more like the arena of death system, but it was un-playable.
> The only thing left is the unarmed combat system, modified to suit
> the original DQ rules.

>
> Other that that and minor tweaks I'm an adder. I've written a
> Religion, spirits and planes system, but I've been at pains to keep it
> compatible to the original DQ in term of rules, style and feel

>
>> Have any of you heard of the second unpublished fantasy RPG that
>> Goldberg and Woods were working on? I playtested it, and am curious
>> whether word of that has leaked out over the years.
>
> First I've heard of it, was it any good?

> Damn, now I'll have to get off my butt and start working actively on
> DQPA again :) Actually I was thinking that about one the first projects
> that I would like to undertake just this morning.
>
> The other lost document would be the World Generation System by Steve
> Jackson that was mentioned in the designer's notes of Ares NR 11.

> The group I played with from the time DQ (2nd ed.) came out until 1989
> used
> the rules absolutely straight. I often said that DQ was such a
> well-designed system that I didn't feel the need to "tinker" with it.

>
> Sometime after '89, I got hold of the Arcane Wisdom rules online and we
> added them in, modifying them slightly based on TSR's 3rd edition DQ
> rules,

> We're palying a mix of 2nd. and 3rd Ed.

> I didn't find a reason yet to stop playing DQ. Time pass, systems fall
> down..., but DQ still alive...!!!!

>> GCK

> > The other lost document would be the World Generation System by Steve
> > Jackson that was mentioned in the designer's notes of Ares NR 11.
>
> I talked at length with Steve about it, and I was very nervous. Steve
> wasn't gonna take any time to learn DQ, so whatever was going to arrive
> would have had to be seriously edited to make it more DQ-ish.

> The really painful thing that never saw the light of day was an
> adventure pack designed by Ray Feist.

> Speaking of which, does anyone on the list have a copy
> of the Enchanted Wood?

> Speaking of which, does anyone on the list have a copy of the Enchanted
> Wood?

> > We're palying a mix of 2nd. and 3rd Ed.
>
> What are you using from the 3rd?

> In regards to your question about playing by the rules just a few
> weeks I also stumbled across this group and posted a few questions
> along those lines. Look back a few pages and you'll see a few threads
> I started on that subject. In general I've felt little need to expand
> upon the DQ rules beyond using the copy of Arcane Wisdom I managed to
> weasel out of a sympathetic soul at TSR.

> I still use shields from 1st edition and Military Science from 3rd, and
> combat is a mix of 1st & 2nd and the rest is 2nd editiion.
>
>

On Apr 3, 2005, at 10:03 PM, Chris Klug wrote:

>
> Hello
>
>> I still use shields from 1st edition and Military Science from 3rd,
>> and
>> combat is a mix of 1st & 2nd and the rest is 2nd editiion.
>>
>>
> I can't even remember. How did shields work in 1st edition?
>
> Chris
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>

> > I still use shields from 1st edition and Military Science from 3rd, and
> > combat is a mix of 1st & 2nd and the rest is 2nd editiion.
> >
> >
> I can't even remember. How did shields work in 1st edition?
>
> Chris
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>