----- Original Message -----
From: <dqn-list@yahoogroups.com>
To: <dqn-list@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, December 05, 2003 8:38 PM
Subject: [DQN-list] Digest Number 259


>
> There is 1 message in this issue.
>
> Topics in this digest:
>
> 1. Re: CHARITY EVENT, WAY Off-Topic
> From: "Greg Walters" <Greg_G_Walters@email.com>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2003 21:06:10 -0000
> From: "Greg Walters" <Greg_G_Walters@email.com>
> Subject: Re: CHARITY EVENT, WAY Off-Topic
>
> Sounds good to me.
>
> Could you forward this to the Univwerse group too?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Greg W.
>
> --- In dqn-list@yahoogroups.com, "Don Hawthorne" <ravenglass@e...>
> wrote:
> > Dear Friends:
> > Sorry for this mass mailing, but it's for a good cause.
> > To any of you out there who play computer games,
> specifically "Medal Of Honor: Allied Assault".
> > A very nice bunch of guys called "The [DaDs] Army" is hosting a
> charity event on their server on Saturday, December 13. You can learn
> all the details about it here:
> >
> > http://dadscharity.org/index.shtml
> >
> > For 24 hours, donating guests will play against members of "The
> [DaDs] Army" who will rotate into the game according to their
> respective time zones and availability.
> > [DaDs] has members all over the world; from Australia, New Zealand,
> the United Kingdom, Portugal, Germany, the Netherlands, Canada and
> the United States, and all of them have one thing in common. To be in
> the [DaDs], you have to be a dad.
> > Basically, for a $10 donation, one person can play for one
> hour, or for $100 a team of up to 15 can play for one hour. All
> proceeds -- and that's every penny -- will go to St. Jude's
> Children's Research Hospital to aid in the fight against serious
> diseases that strike down children every day. St. Jude's is world
> renowned for its treatment of these diseases, primarily pediatric
> cancers, especially leukemia. You can learn more about St. Jude's
> here:
> >
> > http://www.stjude.org/about-st-jude
> >
> > ...but the most important thing this site will tell you about
> St. Jude's is summed up in this pargraph:
> > "ALSAC / St. Jude covers all costs not covered by insurance for
> medical treatment rendered at St. Jude Children's Research Hospital.
> Families without insurance are never asked to pay."
> > This means that St. Jude's appreciates all the help it can get
> from outside donations and charity events like these. If you would
> like to play "Medal of Honor" against the [DaDs], they would love to
> have you, and you might win one of the many prizes they have drummed
> up from among themselves nd corporate sponsors.
> > Even if you don't know a mouse pad from a mouse trap, please
> check out http://dadscharity.org/index.shtml or
> http://www.stjude.org/about-st-jude and give whatever you can. No
> donation is too small.
> >
> > Thanks for putting up with this SPAM; we now return you to your
> regularly scheduled e-mails.
> > Yours truly,
> > Don Hawthorne
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

>
>

> Interesting in that a loss of 3 fatigue can stun you...but also be

> by a sit down and a nice cup of tea and a slice of cake.
>
> Must say I have never bothered to question what it actually means
>
> Hmmm
>
> JohnD

> -----Original Message-----
> From: dbarrass_2000 [mailto:david.barrass@e...]
> Sent: 09 December 2003 13:28
> To: dqn-list@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [DQN-list] Fatigue hits
>
>
> I have a question (I've looked for the answer in the archive and
> can't find it)
>
> Are fatique hits real injuries?
>
> They can be seen as triedness and strains from avoiding being hit. An
> arguement for this is the name, and that 1 point of fatigue is enough
> to squirm out of the way of the average hit, after this you're too
> tired.
>
> Is it brusing and light straches? In support of this is the rule that
> you have to do one point of efective damage (this can be just fatigue
> damage) in order to introduce poison into the blood stream. But this
> dosn't make sence in that 1 point of FT can save, say, 12points of
> damage, either you've been hit or you havn't.
>
> My own guess its a bit of both, squirming out of the way tires you
> strains your muscles, blocking/deflecting a blow will still jar.
> After all of this you might not be able to totally avoid the blow
> giving you a scratch or deflecting the blow onto a strong area of
> armour will still leave bruises
>
> Any other thoughts, disagreements?
>
> David
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to

>
>
>
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> of the sender and do not necessarily represent those of the British
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> guaranteed and the BGS accepts no liability for claims arising as a
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>I have a question (I've looked for the answer in the archive and
>can't find it)
>
>Are fatique hits real injuries?

>Are fatique hits real injuries?
>
>

>They can be seen as triedness and strains from avoiding being hit. An
>arguement for this is the name, and that 1 point of fatigue is enough
>to squirm out of the way of the average hit, after this you're too tired.
>
>

>Is it brusing and light straches? In support of this is the rule that
>you have to do one point of efective damage (this can be just fatigue
>damage) in order to introduce poison into the blood stream.
>

>But this dosn't make sence in that 1 point of FT can save, say, 12points of
>damage, either you've been hit or you havn't.
>
>

>My own guess its a bit of both, squirming out of the way tires you
>strains your muscles, blocking/deflecting a blow will still jar.
>After all of this you might not be able to totally avoid the blow
>giving you a scratch or deflecting the blow onto a strong area of
>armour will still leave bruises
>
>

>I have a question (I've looked for the answer in the archive and
>can't find it)
>
>Are fatique hits real injuries?
>
>They can be seen as triedness and strains from avoiding being hit. An
>arguement for this is the name, and that 1 point of fatigue is enough
>to squirm out of the way of the average hit, after this you're too
>tired.
>
>Is it brusing and light straches? In support of this is the rule that
>you have to do one point of efective damage (this can be just fatigue
>damage) in order to introduce poison into the blood stream. But this
>dosn't make sence in that 1 point of FT can save, say, 12points of
>damage, either you've been hit or you havn't.
>
>My own guess its a bit of both, squirming out of the way tires you
>strains your muscles, blocking/deflecting a blow will still jar.
>After all of this you might not be able to totally avoid the blow
>giving you a scratch or deflecting the blow onto a strong area of
>armour will still leave bruises
>
>Any other thoughts, disagreements?
>
>David
>
>
>

> David wrote:
>
> >I have a question (I've looked for the answer in the archive and
> >can't find it)
> >
> >Are fatique hits real injuries?
>
> I don't know if there's an "official" answer to your
> question, but I'll point out that viewing Fatigue-only
> hits as anything other than "real" (though possibly
> very minor) injuries introduces all kinds of conceptual
> difficulties--most obviously, as you've already noted,
> the fact that poison can be injected via a strike that
> never actually landed.
>
> Is there some special reason you are wondering, or
> has it just been too quiet here lately? :-)

On Tue, 09 Dec 2003 13:27:36 -0000, dbarrass_2000 wrote:

>I have a question (I've looked for the answer in the archive and
>can't find it)
>
>Are fatique hits real injuries?

I'm not sure what you mean here by "real injuries"....

>They can be seen as triedness and strains from avoiding being hit.
>An arguement for this is the name, and that 1 point of fatigue is
>enough to squirm out of the way of the average hit, after this
>you're too tired.

As I recall, the Fatigue damage represents the type of injuries
that one can turn into straight bruising and aches and pains, rather
than serious injuries that actually can kill you if not treated and
cured. The exhaustion element of Fatigue is also there, in terms of
the loss due to Encumbrance and exercise and that sort of thing. There
was, if I remember correctly, a section in the DQ rulebook (2nd
Edition, SPI) that addressed this in the basic section on the
Characteristics.

.....Atheism is a non-prophet religion.

JohnK
e-mail: jkahane@comnet.ca
web page: http://www.comnet.ca/~jkahane

On Tue, 9 Dec 2003 13:32:04 -0000, Davis, John R wrote:

>Interesting in that a loss of 3 fatigue can stun you...but also be
>recovered by a sit down and a nice cup of tea and a slice of cake.

Actually, a loss of 3 Fatigue can't really stun you unless it's
dramatically appropriate or the stunning element comes from something
the GM has established here. As a general rule, a character is
stunned when they take an amount of damage equal to 1/3 of their EN,
rounded up, in any one blow.

.....Imagination is more important than knowledge. (Albert Einstein)

JohnK
e-mail: jkahane@comnet.ca
web page: http://www.comnet.ca/~jkahane

On Tue, 9 Dec 2003 13:32:04 -0000, Davis, John R wrote:

>Interesting in that a loss of 3 fatigue can stun you...but also be
>recovered by a sit down and a nice cup of tea and a slice of cake.

Actually, a loss of 3 Fatigue can't really stun you unless it's
dramatically appropriate or the stunning element comes from something
the GM has established here. As a general rule, a character is
stunned when they take an amount of damage equal to 1/3 of their EN,
rounded up, in any one blow.

.....Imagination is more important than knowledge. (Albert Einstein)

JohnK
e-mail: jkahane@comnet.ca
web page: http://www.comnet.ca/~jkahane






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*********************************************************************

On Tue, 09 Dec 2003 13:27:36 -0000, dbarrass_2000 wrote:

>I have a question (I've looked for the answer in the archive and
>can't find it)
>
>Are fatique hits real injuries?

I'm not sure what you mean here by "real injuries"....

>They can be seen as triedness and strains from avoiding being hit.
>An arguement for this is the name, and that 1 point of fatigue is
>enough to squirm out of the way of the average hit, after this
>you're too tired.

As I recall, the Fatigue damage represents the type of injuries
that one can turn into straight bruising and aches and pains, rather
than serious injuries that actually can kill you if not treated and
cured. The exhaustion element of Fatigue is also there, in terms of
the loss due to Encumbrance and exercise and that sort of thing. There
was, if I remember correctly, a section in the DQ rulebook (2nd
Edition, SPI) that addressed this in the basic section on the
Characteristics.

.....Atheism is a non-prophet religion.

JohnK
e-mail: jkahane@comnet.ca
web page: http://www.comnet.ca/~jkahane






Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



*********************************************************************
This e-mail message, and any files transmitted with it, are
confidential and intended solely for the use of the addressee. If
this message was not addressed to you, you have received it in error
and any copying, distribution or other use of any part of it is
strictly prohibited. Any views or opinions presented are solely those
of the sender and do not necessarily represent those of the British
Geological Survey. The security of e-mail communication cannot be
guaranteed and the BGS accepts no liability for claims arising as a
result of the use of this medium to transmit messages from or to the
BGS. . http://www.bgs.ac.uk
*********************************************************************

> Hi I got the dragon quest board game made in the 90s on ebay but the
> hero cards are gone. Of course this game cant be played if you dont
> know your characters stats. Can anyone help me on this?

On Jan 31, 2004, at 10:04 PM, Ran Hardin wrote:

> On all the various DQ websites, rules supplements, articles, etc.,
> I've found a small but surprising number of folks who felt the need
> to provide some sort of compensation for players whose characters
> were not members of a magical colllege.  This usually invovles the
> feeling that some sort of XP bonus is needed for non-adept characters
> in order to make things "fair."  I'm wondering what general feelings
> are out there on that subject?
>
> Dantalion
>
>
>
>
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>Hey Dantalion,
>
>This gets debated from time to time, and I always find the debate
>fascinating. Personally, I think the fact that the non-adept can
>make his/her Magical Aptitude 5 (and there by save at least 10
>attribute points during character creation) great compensation. If
>you assume that the player would have had to spend at least 15 on MA
>(or 10 points over the minimum of 5), according the the experience
>chart, that is 50,000 exp the player can spend on other attributes.
>JuanC
>On Jan 31, 2004, at 10:04 PM, Ran Hardin wrote:
>
>>On all the various DQ websites, rules supplements, articles, etc.,
>>I've found a small but surprising number of folks who felt the need
>>to provide some sort of compensation for players whose characters
>>were not members of a magical colllege. This usually invovles the
>>feeling that some sort of XP bonus is needed for non-adept characters
>>in order to make things "fair." I'm wondering what general feelings
>>are out there on that subject?
>>
>>Dantalion

> A few silly questions...
>
> (1) If I'm going to try to buy a copy on eBay, are there real
> differences between the editions? Should I aim for the third?
>
> (2) How "generic" is DQ (it's been a loooonnnggg time since I've seen
> a copy)? Could I (for example) run a "Lord of the Rings" background
> campaign? A Katherine Kurtz "Deryini" style campaign? Or am I tied
> into a background already?
>
> (3) I notice that the group does not have any links listed (like the
> Universe group does). Anybody recommend good websites for DQ to look
> at?

>1. Second edition is the preferred version. Third edition was a
>bowdlerized version put out by TSR after they had acquired the rights
>to SPI's old properties. Third edition incorporated a couple changes
>that might arguably be worthwhile, but the vast majority of what was
>detrimental.

 As well non-adepts can handle cold iron weapons and armor without resorting to expensive alternatives (ie truesilver) 29.1 and also get an immediate bonus of +20 to their magic resistance 31.4 giving them a survival advantage early in the campaign.

JohnR

-----Original Message-----
From: Martin Gallo
To: dqn-list@yahoogroups.com
Sent: 01/02/04 8:24 AM
Subject: Re: [DQN-list] Non-adept compensation

I tend to agree with this and would also point out the excellent
advantage of not having to spend XP on spells, thus providing better
advancement with other skills.

Marty

>Hey Dantalion,
>
>This gets debated from time to time, and I always find the debate
>fascinating.  Personally, I think the fact that the non-adept can
>make his/her Magical Aptitude 5 (and there by save at least 10
>attribute points during character creation) great compensation.  If
>you assume that the player would have had to spend at least 15 on MA
>(or 10 points over the minimum of 5), according the the experience
>chart, that is 50,000 exp the player can spend on other attributes.
>JuanC
>On Jan 31, 2004, at 10:04 PM, Ran Hardin wrote:
>
>>On all the various DQ websites, rules supplements, articles, etc.,
>>I've found a small but surprising number of folks who felt the need
>>to provide some sort of compensation for players whose characters
>>were not members of a magical colllege.  This usually invovles the
>>feeling that some sort of XP bonus is needed for non-adept characters
>>in order to make things "fair."  I'm wondering what general feelings
>>are out there on that subject?
>>
>>Dantalion

--- In dqn-list@yahoogroups.com, "Fred Kiesche" <godel2escher2bach@y...> wrote:

==snip==
> (2) How "generic" is DQ (it's been a loooonnnggg time since I've seen
> a copy)? Could I (for example) run a "Lord of the Rings" background
> campaign? A Katherine Kurtz "Deryini" style campaign? Or am I tied
> into a background already?
==snip==

From what I remember of the designer notes in Arcane Wisdom, the Deryni series was actually the inspiration for The College of Sorceries of the Mind and the Star Magics division of the College of Celestial Magics was inspired by Tolkien's elves.

The interesting thing about the "generic" system, though, is that without a lot of "official" background material for the game, campaigns seem to be forced to be original. That is, none of the DQ games I've played in ever felt generic. They always seemed to have more depth and life than games I played in packaged worlds.

-David

> Hi, people...
> The problem I see on this subject arises when the non-adept wants to become hero. It is very
> difficult and time consuming to get 8 skills at level 8. On the other hand, mages get level 8 in a
> matter of days, and with less XP expenditure.
> Best regards... Arturo
>

> --- In dqn-list@yahoogroups.com, Arturo Algueiro Melo <aleam00@y...>
> wrote: > Hi, people... > The problem I see on this subject arises when
> the non-adept wants to become hero. It is very > difficult and time
> consuming to get 8 skills at level 8. On the other hand, mages get
> level 8 in a > matter of days, and with less XP expenditure. > Best
> regards... Arturo >
>
> The problem is not really EP cost in and of itself, but how the time
> factor impacts on EP cost. For example:
>
> You have two characters at Mercenary level. One is an adept and the
> other isn't. The adept spends one day and 50 experience points to get
> some minor spell up to rank 1. The non-adept spends 25 EP and 2 weeks
> to get dagger to rank 1. Now the adept has 13 days unaccounted for. He
> could possibly adventure during that time and not only get more
> experience but also be able to raise that spell yet another rank. Or
> he could just spend those 13 days training for experience, gaining 195
> EPs.
>
> The way my gaming group always handled this problem is by requiring
> that at least half of the abilities used to achieve adventurer or hero
> be skills, weapons or rituals. Adepts still reach these milestones
> slightly ahead of non-adepts, but they have so many more abilities to
> spend experience on that it ends up not mattering.
>
> -David

> My problem with the adept vs. non-adept hero level is weapons.
> Only a few weapons can be advanced to rank 8. Therefore, if any
> non-adept player is considering the longterm goals of his
> character, he won't waste time advancing in weapons that don't
> reach rank 8. I realize that that isn't realistic roleplaying,
> but its the truth. I've found myself thinking that many times.
> As a result, the same weapons are used over and over again, while
> others like the mace, warhammer, morningstar never get used.
> Thats just my observation from the group I played with. Maybe it
> doesn't hold true across the board.

>
> My problem with the adept vs. non-adept hero level is weapons.

>

> Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 13:51:02 GMT
> From: hollywood314@juno.com
> Subject: Re: Re: Non-adept compensation
>
>
> I agree with the last comment. Adepts that only focus on cheap Gen. Know. spells are only
> hurting themselves. But, there is still a payoff to this type of advancement. If all players
> start out earning 600 xp per adventure, an adept that gets 8 skills to rank 4 will now get twice
> as much xp. 600 xp will allow that character to catch up real fast.

> My problem with the adept vs. non-adept hero level is weapons. Only a few weapons can be
> advanced to rank 8. Therefore, if any non-adept player is considering the longterm goals of his
> character, he won't waste time advancing in weapons that don't reach rank 8. I realize that
> that isn't realistic roleplaying, but its the truth. I've found myself thinking that many
> times. As a result, the same weapons are used over and over again, while others like the mace,
> warhammer, morningstar never get used. Thats just my observation from the group I played with.
> Maybe it doesn't hold true across the board.

> Ran & Arturo:
>
> Do either of you have your house rules in a format that you could pass on. I'd really like to
> see what you've come up with. I've tossed different ideas around for a while and have never
> been able to come up with anything I was happy with.
>
> Stephen

--- In dqn-list@yahoogroups.com, hollywood314@j... wrote:
>
> Ran & Arturo:
>
> Do either of you have your house rules in a format that you could
pass on. I'd really like to see what you've come up with. I've
tossed different ideas around for a while and have never been able to
come up with anything I was happy with.
>
> Stephen
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
> Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
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>From: "David Chappell" <kaith_athanes@yahoo.com>
>
>I was looking through some of the old Dragon Magazine articles
>recently and was once again amazed to read this first line in the
>Enhancing the Enchanter article:
>
>"Of the twelve initial Magical Colleges in the DRAGONQUEST� game
>system, the College of Ensorcelments and Enchantments is my
>favorite. So it makes me just a bit unhappy to realize that it's
>also the weakest of the twelve."

>That was Crabaugh, right? Same guy who wrote "The
>Warrior Alternative?" He was an idiot.

>I agree with you, David, that the Colleges are

>well-balanced. But I'll add one personal

>never seen a player pick Water Magics. (Of course,

>sure there's someone on this listserv who has had a
>different experience. Make your own conclusions.)
>
>-Cameron

>I always figured that a more water-based game world
>would favor Water Magics. You know, an island chain,
>or a group of sailing explorers. OTH, when I
>read "Enhancing the Enchanter" I always figured he'd
>used an older version of the rules or something. The
>Bantam 2nd edition just didn't bear out what he was
>saying. At least, I couldn't see it. Frankly, I
>always thought the College of Celestial Magics was the
>weakest, due to their limitations based on daylight,
>shadow, and such. But, frankly, the differences
>in "power" between the Colleges seemed minor at best
>and mainly related to the creativity of the Adept.
>
>

> I never saw anyone pick Water magics, either. Even in a water

> world, I'd personally be more inclined towards Air than Water,

> you've still got some good ship-friendly spells plus more

> useful (and aggressive) ones.

> E&E occasionally struck me as being potentially the most

> been a while since I've looked through the rules, but I recall a

> making hellishly good use of some of the spells in there -- like

> speed spell, invisibility, and then wasn't there an enhance

> spell? The effects aren't as direct as the other colleges, but

> had a much more impressive cumulative effect on the party's

> The Celestial magics was popular in our group. It had, IMO, one

> best blends of spells, which offset the environmental penalties.

> group tended a bit more towards skulking than having big stand up

> out in the sunshine though. ;)
>

>I wish I could pick a favorite, but it keeps changing

>my mood. That's one of the things I enjoy about

>It is so easy to tailor a character's abilities to

>you want them to have.
>

> 2 - magic resistance is WP for adepts and WP * 1.5
> for non adepts.

> This goes a long way toward fixing the issues.
> Enforcing the idea
> that if metal of any sort is worn or even carried a
> lot (a big sword,
> for example) the magic won't work: this helps. This
> way magicians
> trying to fight always do a lot less damage and
> break their weapons a
> lot.

> Then also the magicians spend lots more points, so
> he non adepts can
> increase their PERC faster and then always go first
> and can usually,
> in a fight, cut down the adept before they can get a
> spell off.

> things like this. A guy with a bow can do a lot to a
> guy that doesn't
> wear armor especially when he gets to go first and
> has the same range
> as the adept - or 'far enough' if the GM can work
> the scenarios right.

> A magician being grappled can't wave their arms
> around to cast
> any spell. An opponent casting a counterspell on an
> area can keep all
> magic of a given type from being cast in a room, for
> example.

> Cut down on things like investment ritual - one way

> Finally, there are a few spells that are
> 'mis-balanced', just fix
> them by fixing up the spell percentages (lower as
> needed) or drop the
> damage a little. Fix the ones that are bothering
> your particular
> campaign, you don't have to get them 'all' (in my
> house rules I've
> tried to do that, it was a lot of work).

> I always thought an Enchanter who was also an
> Alchemist and a Mechanician would be really, really
> cool. Imagine the endless possibilities.... Of
> course, I never got around to it, but if I ever
> start
> playing DQ again... (Yeah, right. Like I can
> squeeze
> that in with a family and two jobs. Ah, well, I can
> dream.)
>
> Thanks,
> Jim

>well-balanced. But I'll add one personal observation: I've
>never seen a player pick Water Magics. (Of course, I'm
>sure there's someone on this listserv who has had a
>different experience. Make your own conclusions.)