DragonQuest Damage Spells by David McCorkhill

This article appeared in Fantasy Gamer Magazine Number 2 (Oct/Nov
1988) pp 2-7

This is a 2mb color PDF of acceptable quality:
http://johnrauchert.brinkster.net/dq/archive/articles/dqdamspells.pdf

I am working on Grayscale with hopefully higher quality and smaller
file size as well as a text version.

JohnR

"CJC Work" wrote:

>I found this the other day if its what you were looking for, a reprint from
>a Dragon Magazine I believe. I hope it helps.

Thanks, Chris. As Bruce pointed out, this is obviously not the
skill Loklar has in PoO, but it may be a close cousin. Does anybody
know if Jon Mattson was on the DQ design team? Or was he just an
independent enthusiast?

-Cameron

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--- In dqn-list@yahoogroups.com, "john_rauchert"
<john.rauchert@s...> wrote:

> DragonQuest Damage Spells by David McCorkhill
>
> This article appeared in Fantasy Gamer Magazine Number 2 (Oct/Nov
> 1988) pp 2-7
> I am working on Grayscale with hopefully higher quality and

smaller

> file size as well as a text version.

As promised, the Grayscale still clocks in at around 2mb but the
quality is better. The text file was done using Windows Notepad so
expect some weirdness when viewing it in other applications.

I made a mistake on the date of the original article it was actually
Oct/Nov 1983 not 1988 (an entry that needs changing in the Canonical
Index)

http://johnrauchert.brinkster.net/dq/archive/articles/dqdamspellsgs.p
df

http://johnrauchert.brinkster.net/dq/archive/articles/dqdamspells.txt

Who is David McCorkhill? Apparently NOT a stranger to the original
SPI developers, as he is given a developmental credit in Universe
SPI's Science Fiction RPG.

Where can I find good information on Priests/devine
magic/religions/gods... in a word "cleric". I already know about the
bit in Thieves World, but has anybody developed anything along the
lines of a priest skill or, better yet, a full religion system?

I'm working on something right now, myself, but I could use some help.


Thanks,
R.

In our DQ group, one of us tried a cleric system for a few campaigns. We decided it was interesting but not very useful, as clerics became just a new class of magic users instead of a complementary skill. Eventually we thought the clerics should have been limited to dealing with gods and their servants, and being involved with normal life events for their culture, so they weren't much use in adventures - the character would not be allowed to go off regularly to do the things players like their characters to do.

On the other hand, since they deal best with gods and their servants, where such are active in your world, cleric NPCs can be convinced to come along and help out with specific quests. A GM can have endless fun providing either hapless low level clerics that can barely deal with such things, or senior clerics with capability but a strong tendency to coerce "proper" behavior on the PCs while on adventure.

We have included pantheons and clerics for color but not for PCs.

I made a Priest skill a while back. Its found at
http://www.geocities.com/mean_liar/dq.htm

Essentially it enhances appropriate things: Wisdom enhances Perception, the
god of Fire enhances Cast Chances for Fire College spells, etc. The only
power it grants outright is the ability to call down miracles. "Miracles"
are left undefined on purposes.

The chances for miracles are a bit high and the XP cost for the Priestcraft
skill is extraordinary. This was by design (since miracles... c'mon, they
should pay for em), but since implementation I decided that the miracle
chance should drop dramatically and the XP cost reduced as well. As well,
there is a provision where a Priest can learn magic at an advanced rate...
that should probably be altered down as well.

In any case, its there for your review and modifications as you see fit.

_________________________________________________________________
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On Sat, 03 May 2003 16:54:30 -0000, "Richard" <demon_star2002@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>Where can I find good information on Priests/devine
>magic/religions/gods... in a word "cleric". I already know about the
>bit in Thieves World, but has anybody developed anything along the
>lines of a priest skill or, better yet, a full religion system?

It depends a lot on what role you want "clerics" to have in your game world.
It also depends on the nature of religion in your game world: monotheistic
or pantheistic? Most FRPGs assume "pantheistic" but there's room for a
monotheistic setup based on real-world analogues; i.e., there might be
multiple gods world-wide but any particular culture might only worship one
of those and deny/ignore the "validity" of the others.

How strongly do you take the admonition in the DQ rules that "magic" has
nothing to do with the gods? If you accept that as being true, then do your
clerics do any sort of "magic" at all? How does that fit in with say, the
College of Earth Magics, which is pretty clearly a "religious" college?

What I'm trying to say here is that I don't think there's any single
"answer" to the question. You have to set up your assumptions first.

FWIW, in my campaign I decided that the basic human society that the players
would be a part of was fundamentally monotheistic, roughly a Catholicism
analogue. Within that structure "priest" was to be a Skill, with
improvement in Rank reflecting the social standing of the priest in addition
to their improvements in "abilities", which would centre around healing and
protection from evil. There certainly are other gods in the campaign but I
had not extended my thoughts on dealing with those to any particular extent.
None of this was developed enough to be usable as "rules".

For a more traditional pantheistic setup, I can't recommend anything more
highly than the RuneQuest/Glorantha "cults" setup. For those not familiar
with this, the basic idea is that each god has a cult devoted to them; each
cult offered its followers basic advantages (usually in terms of specialised
training) and, for advanced members, direct access to divine power in the
form of powerful spells. The flipside is that the more involved you are in
the cult, the more duties and obligations you acquire (making typical
adventuring life difficult).

I'm not especially fond of the standard D&D cleric system, which is rather
flavourless and tends to make all clerics of all gods very similar (although
D&D3E has made some advances in that respect). Ideally, if you go with the
concept of divine spells at all, there should be a short list of common
spells, with each religion having unique spells of their own; so that when
that evil cleric slams you with a Flaming Fist of God, you know that he's a
cleric of Shazam the Evil One, rather than knowing he's 5th level (or
whatever).

----------------------------------------------------------------
Bruce Probst bprobst@netspace.net.au ICQ 6563830
Canberra, Australia MSTie #72759 SCA #80160
"I never thought the Apocalypse would be so annoying."
ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ

--- In dqn-list@yahoogroups.com, "Richard" <demon_star2002@y...>
wrote:

> Where can I find good information on Priests/devine
> magic/religions/gods... in a word "cleric". I already know about

the

> bit in Thieves World, but has anybody developed anything along the
> lines of a priest skill or, better yet, a full religion system?
>
> I'm working on something right now, myself, but I could use some

help.

I must first of all state my agreement with Bruce Probst.
I have a system, of sorts, which can be found here:-
http://helios.bto.ed.ac.uk/bto/dq/index.htm
It has expanded on the hints that DQ religion is opposed to magic,
but some religions are magical. There are therefore two types of
religion, magical with a few extra spells and rituals that seemed
appropriate and the powers of light based on opposition to magical
things and races.
I made it years ago, but recently started GM DQ for my children. I I
dug this out, blew the dust off and heavilly revised it. The new
documents are on the web site (not the old ones as the page text
suggests)

Please note they are works in progress and haven't been play-tested
yet. The major NPC who will become a Cleric has just lost his leg to
infection and is about to start on this carrear insted of going to
the army.

PLEASE PLEASE give me your feed back. Yes I am aware of how poor my
spelling is and corrections would be recieved willingly also.

David

Here's what little I've come up with so far-

That there should be something along the lines of a "Piety"
characteristic (used both in Hero Wars and Stalking the Night
Fantastic) that would either be randomly generated, distributed, or
figured from, probably, from Willpower.

That their "spells" (and I really hate that term where applied here)
would be limited to ritual and possibly talent magic. Normal spell
use would be extremely limited, if not eliminated altogether.

That a Priest skill would primarily cover the priests knowledge of
their religion and how well they deal with their respective
followers, *not* how proficient they are at spell use.

That their "power" would come from the amount of followers they
gained/held.

Other stuff I can't think of right now and, anyway, I have to get
back to work.

If this stirs any interest, let me know and I'll post the work I've
done up to this point, including a Preist skill I worked on from many
years ago.


Lemme know,
R.

Richard--

I have made an unsuccessful Hail-Mary experiment with a priest class,
and would like to see what else you have. Your ideas sound
(potentially) more workable than anything I've heard yet.

--Loki

-----Original Message-----
From: Richard [mailto:demon_star2002@yahoo.com]
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2003 10:29 AM
To: dqn-list@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DQN-list] Re: Priests

Here's what little I've come up with so far-

That there should be something along the lines of a "Piety"
characteristic (used both in Hero Wars and Stalking the Night
Fantastic) that would either be randomly generated, distributed, or
figured from, probably, from Willpower.

That their "spells" (and I really hate that term where applied here)
would be limited to ritual and possibly talent magic. Normal spell
use would be extremely limited, if not eliminated altogether.

That a Priest skill would primarily cover the priests knowledge of
their religion and how well they deal with their respective
followers, *not* how proficient they are at spell use.

That their "power" would come from the amount of followers they
gained/held.

Other stuff I can't think of right now and, anyway, I have to get
back to work.

If this stirs any interest, let me know and I'll post the work I've
done up to this point, including a Preist skill I worked on from many
years ago.


Lemme know,
R.





Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

I think it's shame leave religion, or at least gods, out of a fantasy
setting. If nothing else it should be included, at least, in an
abstract sense, which probably the easiest way to go.

As far as priests go, they don't have to be limited to just
the "priest skill" (if that's the way it'd be handled)- they can be
effective in lots of ways other than the walking-first-aid-kit of D&D
fame. Just depends on the religion/setting. I'm kinda thinking Fafhrd
& the Grey Mouser here. The more we disconnect from the D&D cleric
mold, the better this will be, I think.

Anyway, seems like we might be off to a good start here.


Later,
R.

--- In dqn-list@yahoogroups.com, "Gregg, Joseph" <joseph.gregg@b...>
wrote:

> In our DQ group, one of us tried a cleric system for a few

campaigns. We decided it was interesting but not very useful, as
clerics became just a new class of magic users instead of a
complementary skill. Eventually we thought the clerics should have
been limited to dealing with gods and their servants, and being
involved with normal life events for their culture, so they weren't
much use in adventures - the character would not be allowed to go off
regularly to do the things players like their characters to do.

>
> On the other hand, since they deal best with gods and their

servants, where such are active in your world, cleric NPCs can be
convinced to come along and help out with specific quests. A GM can
have endless fun providing either hapless low level clerics that can
barely deal with such things, or senior clerics with capability but a
strong tendency to coerce "proper" behavior on the PCs while on
adventure.

>
> We have included pantheons and clerics for color but not for PCs.

--- In dqn-list@yahoogroups.com, "Richard" <demon_star2002@y...>
wrote:

> I already know about the bit in Thieves World,

For those unfamilar with the bit in Thieves World here it is:

Thieves' World : Personalities of Sanctuary, 1981, p.25
by Eric Goldberg

Believed Missing In Action

Two major aspects of Thieves' World life are not defined in these
pages, because both are beyond the current scope of the DragonQuest
rules. Supplementary material will eventually encompass gods and
religious orders, but I can hardly presume to formulate rigid rules
which recreate their effects upon DragonQuest characters in Thieves'
World.

Nevertheless, it is recommended that the Ilsig and Rankan gods be
treated as ultrapowerful beings who can do just about anything in
their respective spheres of influence--anything, that is, which does
not bring them into conflict with another god. A god's influence
sphere is defined as of what she or he is the god: Eshi, for
example, is the goddess of love and virginity. Except in exceedingly
unusual circumstances, no character can withstand a god's power
without the protection of another god. (When in the bad graces of an
Ilsig god, supplicate to a Rankan god, and vice-versa.) Every god
should be assumed to have the power of Full Geas (see 83.2).

Religion is necessarily closely tied to the gods. If the gamesmaster
constructs an adventure so that the player-characters encounter
priests of one or more religions, it is suggested that these priests
be granted quasi-clerical abilities (as in pagan and early Catholic
legend). These rely heavily on ritual--in both senses of the word--
and personal magic, which is intended to directly affect an
individual (the Healer skill [55] and curses [84.3 et seq. ] are
good examples of this). Presumably, spells which are scaled-down
versions of the liege god's special powers are part of the priest's
repertoire.

JohnR

I actually found your Priest skill somewhere online a long time ago
and didn't know who produced it. Very interesting stuff- I was
actually considering sort of throwing the best of your skill and mine
together to see what good could have come of it. Until I had a mini-
epiphany about it a couple of weeks ago (which prompted my original
post about it here).

It occured to me that it all needed to be treated in a grander
fashion than as just a skill. Something more along the lines of how
the Colleges of Magic were handled- not using the same structure, but
with that same sensetivity and flexiblity that made the Colleges one
of my favorite parts of the game (never played a M-U in D&D, always
played a mage in DQ). Gonna have to do this one from the ground up.

I think the "miracles" angle is a good way to go. I think they did
something along those lines in TORG, but I always had trouble
digesting that one. Not sure how to handle the cost of it, though.
Depends on the mechanics of it... like if I go with the "Piety" stat
(which I probably will). More on this later.

--- In dqn-list@yahoogroups.com, "King Rat" <mean_liar@h...> wrote:
> I made a Priest skill a while back. Its found at
> http://www.geocities.com/mean_liar/dq.htm
>
> Essentially it enhances appropriate things: Wisdom enhances
Perception, the
> god of Fire enhances Cast Chances for Fire College spells, etc.
The only
> power it grants outright is the ability to call down
miracles. "Miracles"
> are left undefined on purposes.
>
> The chances for miracles are a bit high and the XP cost for the
Priestcraft
> skill is extraordinary. This was by design (since miracles...
c'mon, they
> should pay for em), but since implementation I decided that the
miracle
> chance should drop dramatically and the XP cost reduced as well.
As well,
> there is a provision where a Priest can learn magic at an advanced
rate...
> that should probably be altered down as well.
>
> In any case, its there for your review and modifications as you see
fit.
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online
> http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963

--- In dqn-list@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Probst <bprobst@n...> wrote:

> It depends a lot on what role you want "clerics" to have in your

game world.

> It also depends on the nature of religion in your game world:

monotheistic

> or pantheistic? Most FRPGs assume "pantheistic" but there's room

for a

> monotheistic setup based on real-world analogues; i.e., there might

be

> multiple gods world-wide but any particular culture might only

worship one

> of those and deny/ignore the "validity" of the others.

That's pretty much the way I plan on handling it. Some areas believe
their god to be the only "true" god or whatever, while some areas
worship small groups of them. I'm using the old Basic D&D setting of
the "Known World" that includes quite a variety of gods (actually
more like demi-gods here).

> How strongly do you take the admonition in the DQ rules

that "magic" has

> nothing to do with the gods? If you accept that as being true,

then do your

> clerics do any sort of "magic" at all? How does that fit in with

say, the

> College of Earth Magics, which is pretty clearly a "religious"

college?

I think the angle I'm going to take is that the power of priests lies
in the strength of his following first, and the divine powers he
wields second. This will seperate them nicely from mages, I think (if
this can be pulled off, that is.) I was aware the Earth Magics had
a "religious" aspect to it, but not an overt one. Guess I'll have to
take a closer look at that one.

> What I'm trying to say here is that I don't think there's any single
> "answer" to the question. You have to set up your assumptions

first.

I actually am looking at this as "DragonQuest Book 5", since I think
that's the amount of work the ol' SPI boys would have put into it.
And, no, I don't think I can even come close to what they would have
done... but I am considering how they may have done it.

> FWIW, in my campaign I decided that the basic human society that

the players

> would be a part of was fundamentally monotheistic, roughly a

Catholicism

> analogue. Within that structure "priest" was to be a Skill, with
> improvement in Rank reflecting the social standing of the priest in

addition

> to their improvements in "abilities", which would centre around

healing and

> protection from evil. There certainly are other gods in the

campaign but I

> had not extended my thoughts on dealing with those to any

particular extent.

> None of this was developed enough to be usable as "rules".

This all sounds like it could be worked into something very
useable... still not so sure about a Priest skill, though. I *am*
trying to work around that, however.

> For a more traditional pantheistic setup, I can't recommend

anything more

> highly than the RuneQuest/Glorantha "cults" setup.

I agree whole-heartedly. I even swiped a bit or two from Hero Wars.

> I'm not especially fond of the standard D&D cleric system, which is

rather

> flavourless and tends to make all clerics of all gods very similar

(although

> D&D3E has made some advances in that respect). Ideally, if you go

with the

> concept of divine spells at all, there should be a short list of

common

> spells, with each religion having unique spells of their own; so

that when

> that evil cleric slams you with a Flaming Fist of God, you know

that he's a

> cleric of Shazam the Evil One, rather than knowing he's 5th level

(or

> whatever).

Again, I agree, up to a point- we seem to be on the same wavelength
here, for the most part. I'm currently swiping bits from D&D 3e
Domains to fill in those gaps in my stuff. Anyway, more later as
this developes.


Later,
R.

--- In dqn-list@yahoogroups.com, "john_rauchert" <john.rauchert@s...>
wrote:

> --- In dqn-list@yahoogroups.com, "Richard" <demon_star2002@y...>
> wrote:
> > I already know about the bit in Thieves World,
>
> For those unfamilar with the bit in Thieves World here it is:
>

Know about it, but obviously had forgotten much of it! Thanks for
posting this, it'll help a lot.


Later,
R.

--- In dqn-list@yahoogroups.com, "Richard" <demon_star2002@y...>
wrote:

>
> Know about it, but obviously had forgotten much of it! Thanks for
> posting this, it'll help a lot.
>
>
> Later,
> R.

Other sources of inspiration:

http://www.pantheon.org
Encyclopedia Mythica a great source of myth and legend


The Primal Order
from the pre-TSR, pre-Hasbro Wizards of the Coast

GURPS Religion
Steve Jackson Games

Authentic Thaumaturgy
by Isaac Bonewits republished by Steve Jackson Games
Influenced a number of game developers in the early days. Chapter 10
deals with God and God Magic.


http://www.dragonridge.com/iratha/magic.htm

A magic system that I wrote for a shared game world many moons ago.
It has a different take on the whole god/worshipper relationship.

JohnR

I hate to jump in so late on the debate...
I was thinkning of integrating Priests in my campaign. But i was
going to take a slightly different approach. Priest is just a skill,
though there may be some psuedo magical powers associated with it.
My thought is that you could have a priest who is assoicated with an
number of different colleges. But i htink there should be skills
associated with being a priest.

This may mean that priest is not a good "adventuring" skill. But it
could be a good roleplaying skill. Of course I could be dreaming. I
can't get anyone to play anything aside from a fire mage ;-)

And speaking of jumping in late, I thought I might as well join in as
well.

I've used priests (or, rather, "religious characters") every now and
then in my campaigns. Rather than having set spells, we've played them
by "winging it"; if a character wants some sort of divine intervention,
the chance of it happening depends on how major an intervention it is,
and how strictly they've adhered to the tenets of their religion.

So, if all they want from their god is for the sun to come up, there's
a fairly good chance of that. If they want their pursuer to get lost
and lose the track, that seems fair enough and will have maybe a 50%
chance (or so, depending on how we're all feeling). If they want their
opponent smitten with a lightening bolt, it's a bit more unlikely.

We went this way because we felt that "religion" needed to be
distinguished in some fundamental way from magic. So, no spells, just
direct appeals for assistance. Very free form, and quite distinct from
the rigid schools of magic.

One other point about the way we played priests, which rather stems
from our view of religion (apologies now to any religious readers out
there). We played it so that the chance of success was substantially
increased if the intervention did not necessarily require the existence
of a diety; so, if the intervention _could_ just be a lucky
coincidence, it was substantially more likely to succeed than if the
intervention required the existence of a God. Well, it worked well for
us !

Ben

On Wednesday, May 7, 2003, at 10:36 PM, jcorey30 wrote:

> I hate to jump in so late on the debate...
> I was thinkning of integrating Priests in my campaign. But i was
> going to take a slightly different approach. Priest is just a skill,
> though there may be some psuedo magical powers associated with it.
> My thought is that you could have a priest who is assoicated with an
> number of different colleges. But i htink there should be skills
> associated with being a priest.
>
> This may mean that priest is not a good "adventuring" skill. But it
> could be a good roleplaying skill. Of course I could be dreaming. I
> can't get anyone to play anything aside from a fire mage ;-)
>
>
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>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
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>
>
>
---------------------------------------------------
Ben Davis [ben_davis@ntlworld.com]

--- In dqn-list@yahoogroups.com, "john_rauchert" <john.rauchert@s...>
wrote:

> Other sources of inspiration:

I'll definitely look into these. And I do mean "look"- while I like
SJG stuff and I think GURPS books are, if nothing else, great sources
of backround, they do seem to be on the pricey side, especially since
I got canned today (yay me!). Authentic Thaumaturgy... I'd read a
review of that years ago in that old Chaosium gaming mag (what was
the name?) and it thought it sounded kinda cool, albeit a little
impractical for gaming purposes at the time. Have you managed put it
to good use?

And, now that I have some free time on my hands (heh heh), I'm
thinking that this Priest business might be a big enough bear to
merit its own Yahoo group (assuming that y'all wanna have a
collective go at this). Any takers?


Later,
R.

--- In dqn-list@yahoogroups.com, "john_rauchert" <john.rauchert@s...>
wrote:

> The Primal Order
> from the pre-TSR, pre-Hasbro Wizards of the Coast

Forgot to ask... what is this? Never heard of it before.

Hi all,
As an aside from the religous discussion we are having I have another
question.

What does land cost in your worlds in terms of purchasing outright, leasing
in perpituity ie 99 years rolling over etc.

I'm interested as it would give me more to work on in an ongoing campaign
for PC's to work on / own / and work with.

Specifically as used to buy businesses or farms or estates for ongoing
revenue.

Cheers
Chris

_________________________________________________________________
Check out the Xtra gaming servers at http://xtramsn.co.nz/gaming !

My thinking is that a Priest skill would cover more of the day-to-day
activities of the job- the psychiatric, clerical (no pun!), and
otherwise organizational duties of being a priest... maybe with
a "laying on of hands" psuedo-magic thrown in. I'm still trying to
process everything set before me, however, so who knows what I'll end
up with.

BTW, my first DQ character was a fire mage! lol
Live and learn, live and learn...

--- In dqn-list@yahoogroups.com, "jcorey30" <john@d...> wrote:
> I hate to jump in so late on the debate...
> I was thinkning of integrating Priests in my campaign. But i was
> going to take a slightly different approach. Priest is just a
skill,
> though there may be some psuedo magical powers associated with it.
> My thought is that you could have a priest who is assoicated with
an
> number of different colleges. But i htink there should be skills
> associated with being a priest.
>
> This may mean that priest is not a good "adventuring" skill. But
it
> could be a good roleplaying skill. Of course I could be dreaming.
I
> can't get anyone to play anything aside from a fire mage ;-)

I was trying to work something like this into my old Priest class-
nothing necessarily like a specific spell effect, maybe just whatever
the GM felt was appropriate at the time. I don't know if I like
handing that much power over to the GM, though... effects should
still be appropriate to the god/religion, in any case. S'pose that's
pretty obvious, though.


Later,
R.

--- In dqn-list@yahoogroups.com, Ben Davis <ben_davis@n...> wrote:
> And speaking of jumping in late, I thought I might as well join in
as
> well.
>
> I've used priests (or, rather, "religious characters") every now
and
> then in my campaigns. Rather than having set spells, we've played
them
> by "winging it"; if a character wants some sort of divine
intervention,
> the chance of it happening depends on how major an intervention it
is,
> and how strictly they've adhered to the tenets of their religion.
>
> So, if all they want from their god is for the sun to come up,
there's
> a fairly good chance of that. If they want their pursuer to get
lost
> and lose the track, that seems fair enough and will have maybe a
50%
> chance (or so, depending on how we're all feeling). If they want
their
> opponent smitten with a lightening bolt, it's a bit more unlikely.
>
> We went this way because we felt that "religion" needed to be
> distinguished in some fundamental way from magic. So, no spells,
just
> direct appeals for assistance. Very free form, and quite distinct
from
> the rigid schools of magic.
>
> One other point about the way we played priests, which rather
stems
> from our view of religion (apologies now to any religious readers
out
> there). We played it so that the chance of success was
substantially
> increased if the intervention did not necessarily require the
existence
> of a diety; so, if the intervention _could_ just be a lucky
> coincidence, it was substantially more likely to succeed than if
the
> intervention required the existence of a God. Well, it worked well
for
> us !
>
> Ben
>

In my campaign, you can't 'buy' land. The rulers of the land own all the
land. They may grant you the use of the land for as long as they wish and
charge you taxes or some such for the right, but very few non-rulers would
actually own any land. The other way my players have acquired land was to
go somewhere where no one is and simply claim the land as their own. My
group a while back ended a relationship with the ruler of a small island
where they had been granted land and a small run down keep when they
crossed the wrong people and the result was troubles for the rulers of the
kingdom. They ended up abandoning the keep both for themselves and for the
welfare of the kingdom. They currently are involved in the second type of
arrangement now. After much research and time spent sailing the world,
they have discovered an ancient abandoned kingdom that was deserted after
some terrible occurrence (of course). They are now attempting to claim the
kingdom as their own and purge the land of the "problems" (won't go into
more than that in case some of them are on this list). They have already
made contact with one nearby kingdom and the kingdom as agreed to accept
them as the rulers of the abandoned kingdom if they are able to deal with
the problem.

Every world is different, but I think in our own medieval history, there
were very few people that actually owned land (Please feel free to correct
me if I'm wrong here)



At 04:22 PM 5/8/2003, you wrote:

>Hi all,
>As an aside from the religous discussion we are having I have another
>question.
>
>What does land cost in your worlds in terms of purchasing outright, leasing
>in perpituity ie 99 years rolling over etc.
>
>I'm interested as it would give me more to work on in an ongoing campaign
>for PC's to work on / own / and work with.
>
>Specifically as used to buy businesses or farms or estates for ongoing
>revenue.
>
>Cheers
>Chris
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Check out the Xtra gaming servers
>at <http://xtramsn.co.nz/gaming>http://xtramsn.co.nz/gaming !
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups
>Sponsor<http://rd.yahoo.com/M=251812.3170658.4537139.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1705334760:HM/A=1564415/R=0/*http://www.netflix.com/Default?mqso=60164784&partid=3170658>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
><http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>Yahoo! Terms of Service.

Jason Winter
Alarian@direcway.com
http://www.darkrealms.com/~alarian/

>Every world is different, but I think in our own medieval history, there
>were very few people that actually owned land (Please feel free to correct
>me if I'm wrong here)

That's essentially correct. Feudal systems were premised on the king
(or whatever title the monarch goes by) owning all of the land, and
granting "fiefs" to "nobles" of his choosing. The land was then "held
in fee" by the noble, who owed the king a variety of services,
usually (if not always) including taxes, and often involving military
service (as a knight, for example). The noble, in turn, granted his
peasants the right to work "his" land in exchange for a share of their
agricultural products, as well as their service as levied troops. The
noble could pass on (or "devise") his land to an heir, who would then
owe the king the same services/payment, but if there was no heir
or if the noble failed to keep his end of the deal (by not paying
taxes, or by showing disloyalty to the king), the land would "escheat"
back to the king. Later, nobles gained the right to sell their titles
even before dying, but--again--what was sold was not the land
*itself* but rather the *title to* that land. This is all reflected in
modern times by property taxes, which are paid to the state, and
the fact that the state will seize one's property and sell it to
someone else if one doesn't pay them. ("Your" land doesn't
belong to you, you see...it belongs to the state, which grants you
indefinite *title* to the land as long as you keep paying taxes.)

I hope the above is interesting and informative to at least some
of you, rather than boring and obvious to everyone.

-Cameron

_________________________________________________________________
The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail

Hey Richard,

Actually, a good spot for this might be the DQ-rules group. It is a
great place to get collective on stuff. I am one of the moderators, so
if you need me to create new folders or anything, I would be happy to
facilitate.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dq-rules/

JohnC

On Thursday, May 8, 2003, at 05:31 PM, Richard wrote:

> --- In dqn-list@yahoogroups.com, "john_rauchert" <john.rauchert@s...>
> wrote:
>
> > Other sources of inspiration:
>
>
> I'll definitely look into these. And I do mean "look"- while I like
> SJG stuff and I think GURPS books are, if nothing else, great sources
> of backround, they do seem to be on the pricey side, especially since
> I got canned today (yay me!). Authentic Thaumaturgy... I'd read a
> review of that years ago in that old Chaosium gaming mag (what was
> the name?) and it thought it sounded kinda cool, albeit a little
> impractical for gaming purposes at the time. Have you managed put it
> to good use?
>
> And, now that I have some free time on my hands (heh heh), I'm
> thinking that this Priest business might be a big enough bear to
> merit its own Yahoo group (assuming that y'all wanna have a
> collective go at this). Any takers?
>
>
> Later,
> R.
>
>
<image.tiff>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

On Thu, 08 May 2003 16:43:39 -0700, "D. Cameron King"
<monarchy2000@hotmail.com> wrote:

>That's essentially correct. Feudal systems were premised on the king
>(or whatever title the monarch goes by) owning all of the land, and
>granting "fiefs" to "nobles" of his choosing.

This is all correct, so far as I'm aware, just a slight point to note: the
DQ rules actually presume something resembling a renaissance society rather
than true "middle ages" i.e., feudal.

Nobility is still nobility, but guilds and merchants wield the bulk of the
financial power, and most land titles would be held by them rather than the
nobles directly. (As Cameron said, the nobles still "own" the land, but
that increasingly becomes a very minor distinction.)

----------------------------------------------------------------
Bruce Probst bprobst@netspace.net.au ICQ 6563830
Canberra, Australia MSTie #72759 SCA #80160
"By this time my lungs were aching for air!"
ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ

Done and done! I'll start combing over the old posts to see if
there's anything worth swiping right now! :D
Thanks for the heads up, I appreciate it.


Later,
R.

--- In dqn-list@yahoogroups.com, John Corey <john@d...> wrote:
> Hey Richard,
>
> Actually, a good spot for this might be the DQ-rules group. It is
a
> great place to get collective on stuff. I am one of the
moderators, so
> if you need me to create new folders or anything, I would be happy
to
> facilitate.
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dq-rules/
>
> JohnC

Yesterday I created a group to dump ideas into about the priest
thing. If anyone is interested you can find it here:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DragonQuestCathedral

I finally have my old Priest skill write-up handy and that's where
you'll find it (I haven't actually posted it yet).

By the way, if my posts seem a lttle weird today, it's because I'm
burnin' a couple of Vicodin right now (bad back). All apologies.


Later,
R.

I ran across this just this morning and thought you all would get a
kick out of it. From "a letter from Gigi" in the Dec/Jan '80 issue of
Different Worlds:

"ERIC GOLDBERG has started design on SPI's FRP game, Dragonflayer
(probably a tentative title). They hope to have it out by ORIGINS 80.
Good luck. It's going to be 60-90 pages long, illustrated, in a box,
and will sell in the $10-15 range."


And, no, "Dragonflayer" is not a typo on my part.


Later,
R.

Where the hell did everybody go all of a sudden?

Apparently we are all discussing priests on the cathedral list.

Marty

>Where the hell did everybody go all of a sudden?

--


"If you haven't got your health, at least you have something to talk about."

"They say that everything happens for a reason. I am just tired of
that reason being to make me unhappy or embarrassed."

"You can't make a baby in a month using nine women! But it sounds
like it would be fun to try."

actually Richard, this is why I recommended having this discussion at
dq-rules, rather than in your own group. We get few posts at the best
of times. and we figured out long ago that we need to try and
centralize, not spread out. There are not many of us left :-)

John

On Wednesday, May 14, 2003, at 11:57 AM, Richard wrote:

> Where the hell did everybody go all of a sudden?
>
>
<image.tiff>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

Where the hell did everybody go all of a sudden?



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

Oops. So I actually *did* cause this? Really, though, it's just me
and Rauchert, for the most part. I figured the priest thing ran dry
here when that stuff about land came up.

Keep in mind that anything there can be regurgitated here... I'm just
trying to produce a system that *I* like, thus the seperate group.
And, Like I said, anything anyone wants to take away from my group is
okay by me, just so long as credit is giver where it's due.


Mea culpa,
R.

--- In dqn-list@yahoogroups.com, John Corey <john@d...> wrote:
> actually Richard, this is why I recommended having this discussion
at
> dq-rules, rather than in your own group. We get few posts at the
best
> of times. and we figured out long ago that we need to try and
> centralize, not spread out. There are not many of us left :-)
>
> John
> On Wednesday, May 14, 2003, at 11:57 AM, Richard wrote:
>
> > Where the hell did everybody go all of a sudden?
> >
> >
> <image.tiff>
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.

no, no, no. it is not your fault. I was just pointing out that we
aren't all that active normally. Who knows? sorry if I made you feel
responsible. this thread seems to be going well, though :-)

On Wednesday, May 14, 2003, at 08:30 PM, Richard wrote:

> Oops. So I actually *did* cause this? Really, though, it's just me
> and Rauchert, for the most part. I figured the priest thing ran dry
> here when that stuff about land came up.
>
> Keep in mind that anything there can be regurgitated here... I'm just
> trying to produce a system that *I* like, thus the seperate group.
> And, Like I said, anything anyone wants to take away from my group is
> okay by me, just so long as credit is giver where it's due.
>
>
> Mea culpa,
> R.
>
> --- In dqn-list@yahoogroups.com, John Corey <john@d...> wrote:
> > actually Richard, this is why I recommended having this discussion
> at
> > dq-rules, rather than in your own group.  We get few posts at the
> best
> > of times.  and we figured out long ago that we need to try and
> > centralize, not spread out.  There are not many of us left :-)
> >
> > John
> > On Wednesday, May 14, 2003, at 11:57 AM, Richard wrote:
> >
> > > Where the hell did everybody go all of a sudden?
> > >
> > >
> > <image.tiff>
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.
>
>
<image.tiff>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

Hello Richard,

R> Where the hell did everybody go all of a sudden?


Sorry, took a nap. So, anyone wanna verbally trash the TSR 3rd
edition? :) (Might help spark a discussion!) <Chuckle>



Best regards,

Kurgan mailto:Kurgan@Fastmail.fm

Hello John,


JC> actually Richard, this is why I recommended having this discussion at
JC> dq-rules, rather than in your own group. We get few posts at the best
JC> of times. and we figured out long ago that we need to try and
JC> centralize, not spread out. There are not many of us left :-)

I don't mind multiple groups, but I'd like to know more about
"DQ-Rules." Where is it hosted? This group (DQN-List) is the only
one I knew of, and the only DQ list I've ever seen linked from DQ
websites. How many DQ lists are there?



Best regards,

Kurgan mailto:Kurgan@Fastmail.fm

Does any one have any adventures that could be e-maild or down loaded
from a site?

Hey gang,


Slightly OT, but does anyone know if there are any lists or clubs
for people that are still into Universe? That was my all-time
favorite space RPG.



Best regards,

Kurgan mailto:Kurgan@Fastmail.fm

Hey guys,


Ok, once I start typing, I can't stop (apparently). :)

Just for giggles, I'm curious if DragonQuest is still your
favorite fantasy RPG. There are just so many of them out there, I
doubt anyone's seem them all, but being a gamer and collector for
so many years I think I've come darned close. DragonQuest is
clearly one of my favorites, but I think I'd have to say it's not
at the top of the list. Close, though. It's interesting how we
categorize things. For instance, my favorite RPG of all time is
The Morrow Project, but my favorite game company is Fantasy Games
Unlimited, for their method of bringing the independent author
aspect to gaming (and to this day they still keep the prices dirt
cheap instead of getting on the bandwagon for high dollars or D20
crap). For fantasy, my fave has always been Powers & Perils from
Avalon Hill. Worst editing job in history, but once you get past
the learning curve and get it figured out it's a really awesome
game. DragonQuest is probably #2 in my book, which is still saying
something, considering the vast amount of fantasy games out there.
I've even spotted several games that are very similar to the
mechanics used in both P&P and DQ. The old book "Fantasy
Wargaming," which ostensibly seemed to be a book *about* gaming,
was actually a game unto itself, and had many of the same features
used in DQ & P&P. "Adventures in Fantasy" was co-authored by
Richard Snider, the author of P&P, several years before DQ or P&P
came along, and it too had many of the same unique mechanics that
have never been used in another game since.
I love skills, but hate levels, which is why DQ just misses the
mark for me. If they removed levels I'd be overjoyed. I also think
the idea for having Schools or Colleges of magic is great, and am
surprised so few have utilized it in other games.
Anywho, feel free to toss in your two cents. :)



Best regards,

Kurgan mailto:Kurgan@Fastmail.fm

A group of us moderate these lists as well:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Universe_RPG/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Universe_RPGDevelopment/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UniverseResources/

The Universe_RPG is the main one.
Universe_RPGDevelopment is intended to be similar to DQ-Rules
and UniverseResources is intended for additional storage when we
fill up the files area on our main site. The files area is
definitely a must see if you are a Universe fan.

John F. Rauchert, co-moderator dqn-list, co-moderator dq-rules,
co-moderator Universe_RPG

--- In dqn-list@yahoogroups.com, Kurgan <Kurgan@f...> wrote:
> Hey gang,
>
>
> Slightly OT, but does anyone know if there are any lists or
clubs
> for people that are still into Universe? That was my all-time
> favorite space RPG.
>
>
>
> Best regards,
>
> Kurgan mailto:Kurgan@F...

Currently these are the groups related to DragonQuest

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dqn-list/
For anyone with an interest in the DragonQuest roleplaying game
(originally published by SPI in the early 1980s)

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dq-rules/
This group is for discussion and distribution of Dragon Quest rules,
variants and revisions.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Dragonquestfiles/
DragonQuest Rules files

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DragonQuestCathedral/
Dedicated to the creation of a workable, logical, interesting, fun
system for gods, religion, and priests in the DragonQuest game.


http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dqnewsletter/
This group is being used to maintain and distribute the DragonQuest
Newsletter.


http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dqarchivist/
A list for the maintainance of the DragonQuest Archives (DQARCHIVE).
Which never quite got off the ground.

John F. Rauchert, co-moderator dqn-list

--- In dqn-list@yahoogroups.com, Kurgan <Kurgan@f...> wrote:
> Hello John,
>
>
> JC> actually Richard, this is why I recommended having this
discussion at
> JC> dq-rules, rather than in your own group. We get few posts at
the best
> JC> of times. and we figured out long ago that we need to try and
> JC> centralize, not spread out. There are not many of us left :-)
>
> I don't mind multiple groups, but I'd like to know more about
> "DQ-Rules." Where is it hosted? This group (DQN-List) is the
only
> one I knew of, and the only DQ list I've ever seen linked from
DQ
> websites. How many DQ lists are there?
>
>
>
> Best regards,
>
> Kurgan mailto:Kurgan@F...

DQ gets the nod from me. After that would be TFT.

On the SciFi front, there is an old game called Space Quest that I
had a BLAST running. Universe gets second place.

> Just for giggles, I'm curious if DragonQuest is still your
> favorite fantasy RPG. There are just so many of them out there, I
> doubt anyone's seem them all, but being a gamer and collector for
> so many years I think I've come darned close. DragonQuest is
> clearly one of my favorites, but I think I'd have to say it's not
> at the top of the list. Close, though. It's interesting how we
> categorize things. For instance, my favorite RPG of all time is
> The Morrow Project, but my favorite game company is Fantasy Games
> Unlimited, for their method of bringing the independent author
> aspect to gaming (and to this day they still keep the prices dirt
> cheap instead of getting on the bandwagon for high dollars or D20
> crap). For fantasy, my fave has always been Powers & Perils from
> Avalon Hill. Worst editing job in history, but once you get past
> the learning curve and get it figured out it's a really awesome
> game. DragonQuest is probably #2 in my book, which is still saying
> something, considering the vast amount of fantasy games out there.
> I've even spotted several games that are very similar to the
> mechanics used in both P&P and DQ. The old book "Fantasy
> Wargaming," which ostensibly seemed to be a book *about* gaming,
> was actually a game unto itself, and had many of the same features
> used in DQ & P&P. "Adventures in Fantasy" was co-authored by
> Richard Snider, the author of P&P, several years before DQ or P&P
> came along, and it too had many of the same unique mechanics that
> have never been used in another game since.
> I love skills, but hate levels, which is why DQ just misses the
> mark for me. If they removed levels I'd be overjoyed. I also think
> the idea for having Schools or Colleges of magic is great, and am
> surprised so few have utilized it in other games.
> Anywho, feel free to toss in your two cents. :)
>

--


"If you haven't got your health, at least you have something to talk about."

"They say that everything happens for a reason. I am just tired of
that reason being to make me unhappy or embarrassed."

"You can't make a baby in a month using nine women! But it sounds
like it would be fun to try."

There are a few adventures available online. The Files section of
this group (you have to go to the Yahoo groups website, not just
getting the messages in email) has a folder of Adventures, including
"The House of Kurin" and "The Treasure of Socantri" (both 'official'
SPI products), and 6 or 8 other relatively complete adventures and
some other adventure source miscellany.

There is also an announcement that will be coming fairly soon that
should be of interest, but I can't say more about it just yet.

--Rodger Thorm
DQN-list Moderator

--- In dqn-list@yahoogroups.com, "William" <sgtrichards81@y...> wrote:
> Does any one have any adventures that could be e-maild or down loaded
> from a site?

Try Universe_RPG at YahooGroups.

At 4:23 PM -0500 14/5/03, Kurgan wrote:

>Hey gang,
>
>
> Slightly OT, but does anyone know if there are any lists or clubs
> for people that are still into Universe? That was my all-time
> favorite space RPG.
>
>
>
>Best regards,
>
> Kurgan mailto:Kurgan@Fastmail.fm
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--


================================
L e o D. V e n e z u e l a
email: ldven@i-manila.com.ph
mobile email: levenezu@globextm.com.ph
mobile: +63 917 840 0900
fax: +1 413 826 2738
================================

"You may not be interested in war but war is interested in you." -
Lev Bronstein aka Leon Trotsky

Hello John,


j> A group of us moderate these lists as well:

j> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Universe_RPG/
j> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Universe_RPGDevelopment/
j> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UniverseResources/

j> The Universe_RPG is the main one.
j> Universe_RPGDevelopment is intended to be similar to DQ-Rules
j> and UniverseResources is intended for additional storage when we
j> fill up the files area on our main site. The files area is
j> definitely a must see if you are a Universe fan.


Woohoo! Thanks! I'm on my way! <Chuckle>

Listen to me. Captain Enthusiasm here.

Oh hey, sorry about the minor flood of posts. Either my ISP or
Yahoo was acting up. Those messages we not originally sent at
the same time. Oops.


Best regards,

Kurgan mailto:Kurgan@Fastmail.fm

I think that Yahoo implemented a feature a while ago that causes this
to happen.

For everyone's information, if you are a newer member of the group or
if you haven't posted a message before, you are probably presently set
up in Yahoo so that your posts require moderation (which means that I,
or one of the other moderators, have to approve your post before it is
distributed to the group). I'm not sure exactly what the parameters
are, but it's probably not too problematic for most.

I've been changing people's settings as they post, so that they are
approved to post without moderation from then on. That is the easiest
way for me to manage the group.

And frankly, a flood of posts to get some DragonQuest discussion going
is almost certain to be a good thing, so don't hold back.

--Rodger Thorm
DQN-List Moderator

--- In dqn-list@yahoogroups.com, Kurgan <Kurgan@f...> wrote:

>
<edit>
>
> Oh hey, sorry about the minor flood of posts. Either my ISP or
> Yahoo was acting up. Those messages we not originally sent at
> the same time. Oops.

---

Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.

Hey guys,


I was looking through the files, specifically the adventures, and
noticed a series called Dragon Newt. Does anyone have the missing
numbers? Not all are there, or was this a newsletter or something,
and only those issues had the portions of the campaign?




Best regards,

Kurgan mailto:Kurgan@Fastmail.fm